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[Flapples]

I think the last was maybe Thief 2014? Which had a little nudity.

lol remember when ubisoft was getting a bit gutsy and showed 1 single nipple in watchdogs 1?

 

[Sacred]

Ah yes, the poor straight male, the real victim in this world.

Give me a break

You know women sexualize men just as much, are we supposed to just stop reacting to our hormonal urges. Give your victimhood a rest for 5 minutes.

 

[Baron Samedi]

...majority of women enjoy being looked at when they've put the effort in...

Yeah... women "put the effort" for men's sake, that's how it is.

 

[bilderberg]

Yeah... women "put the effort" for men's sake, that's how it is.

No shit

The sarcasm throughout this thread is through the roof. Make it stop.

 

[buizel]

Yeah... women "put the effort" for men's sake, that's how it is.

Um, more often than not it's to feel good about themselves - because looking good and putting the effort in often means compliments (from men/women/toasters/etc), which boosts self esteem when received. People ALWAYS judge others against others/themselves (not necessarily "bad", just how it is) - whether they admit to it or not.

People are so caught up in presenting an ideal version of what life is like to others, it gets in the way of thinking like normal fucking person.

Unless im confused, im not sure whats sarcasm or not anymore.

 

[Baron Samedi]

I'll say it again, the anti-sex tirade the left wing and feminists are on is just downright creepy to me.

Sex is just a natural part of life, there's nothing "offensive" about it in of itself, people by and large have literally lost their minds these days.

Is not anti-sex, everybody likes sex - feminist and left included - is about anti-objectification of the female role.

 

[Aurelian]

Why wouldn't somebody want to look at something that is good looking rather than a purposely made mediocre character (appearance wise) to pass off as politically correct? How is that in 2018 western female characters have become uglier purposely? Or realistic? Do these people even go out? Women have a wide range and can be beautiful it's not something rare. I never understood this whole "wow get a gf you nerd" approach dismissive people take when somebody dares question why devs these days started making humble ass looking fictional characters.

Uglier, really? More realistic may be more appropriate. Women in games don't have to look plain, but they also don't have to look like Barbie dolls, you know. And in at least some games, realistic is not only more appropriate, it can make the character more appealing. Part of why Elena in Uncharted works is that she looks and acts like a woman you could know in real life... well, a woman with some athletic prowess and good aim.

My issue is that requests like this come across more as wanting game porn than anything -- I mean, the thread is titled "fan service." It's not asking for Bayonetta so much as it is asking for DOA Xtreme 3.

 

[Orange_Man_Good]

Pretty much every AAA game is aimed at straight dudes, so yes.

 

[Aurelian]

What is the moral imperative for this to be followed?

This line of thinking is ripped straight out of the Puritant playbook.

Puritan? Really? I just cited Bayonetta as a good example of how to do sexiness well, and you're calling me puritanical. Uh huh.

There's a difference between celebrating sexuality and a gross, leering "show me more boobs" sort of request. And I don't think the OP is all that interested in the former.

 

[Horns]

I'm sure you can present some examples of your own to debunk his argument then, right?

I can't even wrap my head around the argument. The mental gymnastics going on here is perplexing. Would be very difficult to even attempt to argue against it when the topic is not clear and broad in the first place.

You even quoted me where I asked if someone could make sense of it. Care to elaborate?

 

[Baron Samedi]

Um, more often than not it's to feel good about themselves - because looking good and putting the effort in often means compliments (from men/women/toasters/etc), which boosts self esteem when received. People ALWAYS judge others against others/themselves (not necessarily "bad", just how it is) - whether they admit to it or not.

People are so caught up in presenting an ideal version of what life is like to others, it gets in the way of thinking like normal fucking person.

Unless im confused, im not sure whats sarcasm or not anymore.

Most things we do are to feel better about ourselves, the point is that the notion of women getting that satisfaction from the approval of men is troublesome.

 

[bilderberg]

Puritan? Really? I just cited Bayonetta as a good example of how to do sexiness well, and you're calling me puritanical. Uh huh.

There's a difference between celebrating sexuality and a gross, leering "show me more boobs" sort of request. And I don't think the OP is all that interested in the former.

how is "show me more boobs" gross? That's the opposite of gross.

 

[bilderberg]

Most things we do are to feel better about ourselves, the point is that the notion of women getting that satisfaction from the approval of men is troublesome.

There's that word, "troublesome", which means absolutely nothing. Eating donuts is troublesome, trying to look better for other people is not troublesome. If you see that as troubling, that's on you.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Puritan? Really? I just cited Bayonetta as a good example of how to do sexiness well, and you're calling me puritanical. Uh huh.

There's a difference between celebrating sexuality and a gross, leering "show me more boobs" sort of request. And I don't think the OP is all that interested in the former.

Okay, what's the difference? What's the moral imperative for one and not the other?

Nothing in your reply answered that question. Like the Puritans who tolerated nudity in Classical art yet despised it in popular culture, you seem to be arbitrarily drawing your own lines based on...what?

 

[Aurelian]

how is "show me more boobs" gross? That's the opposite of gross.

Sure it's gross. It's asking games to be pandering and crass because you want to stroke yourself while you're playing.

 

[Baron Samedi]

There's that word, "troublesome", which means absolutely nothing. Eating donuts is troublesome, trying to look better for other people is not troublesome. If you see that as troubling, that's on you.

I guess it is.

 

[InterMusketeer]

I can't even wrap my head around the argument. The mental gymnastics going on here is perplexing. Would be very difficult to even attempt to argue against it when the topic is not clear and broad in the first place.

You even quoted me where I asked if someone could make sense of it. Care to elaborate?

I think the OP was pretty easy to understand. He noticed a lack of fan service in western games and posted some examples where he thought it'd be fitting. Then you waltz in here like it's an absurd thing he posted, which is why I asked you to provide some examples that prove him wrong.

So can you?

 

[bilderberg]

Okay, what's the difference? What's the moral imperative for one and not the other?

Nothing in your reply answered that question. Like the Puritans who tolerated nudity in Classical art yet despised it in popular culture, you seem to be arbitrarily drawing your own lines based on...what?

which he knows is completely arbitrary, otherwise he would't have put 'leering' and 'gross.' If you can just replace words and do a complete 180 on someone's argument, you know they have no actual points.

"There' isn't a difference between celebrating sexuality and celebrating a "show me more boobs" sort of request."

It's really easy to talk out of your ass and act like personal taste is some moral barometer.

 

[Yoshi]

What does fanservice mean here? If I google images of Aloy in Horizon, she looks pretty attractive and not exactly high-necked:

 

[bilderberg]

Aloy looks too much like Tommy Pickles

 

[Dr. Claus]

But 90% jRPG designs are hideous and unappealing (my opinion, I know many dont share it) these days.

THANK YOU NINTENDO for not only RESPECTING WOMEN but getting my gears really going with those watermelon airbags

(pretty sure its SFW because its a nintendo game, RIGHT (or is this fan art, i cant tell?)))

Nice Cherry Picking.

 

[Wimbledon]

Baron Samedi

Women will always be sexualized , propped up like a prize to be won by us (men). That outlook is ingrained in us, it shows in every artistic medium even some of the most tame works. I'd argue some of the most extravagant creations in history by men are created for the sole purpose to impress a women. Can women be strong sure, can they be a hero absolutely, will it sale debatable.

But when it comes to beauty we all have a power fantasy of the most ideal possibly unrealistic standard of beauty. I don't have a problem with that being advertised because thats what sales.

On-Topic with games the creator should do what he wants. Most gamers aren't going to just buy a game because the females have giant tits , or butts. Most gamers aren't that shallow, alot of gamer do care about character, but they can still find the character bangable too.

 

[The Chairman]

Help me understand the OP?! A couple of examples not oversexualizing female characters means no fanservice in Western games for straight men? Please tell me people don't buy into this self victimization.

Come on man.

I can post "examples" all night if you want, now your turn.

 

[radewagon]

Like, would anyone in modern history have objected to a little damn cleavage or a pair of shorts? It's just fucking absurd.

Well, no. Most average gamers wouldn't. But then they also wouldn't show such concern when there's a lack of cleavage and the addition of pants.

 

[The_Mike]

Ah yes, the poor straight male, the real victim in this world.

Give me a break

You are a part of the problem.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Come on man.

I can post "examples" all night if you want, now your turn.

Holy shit, that last one. I didn't know they made a game featuring a real life neanderthal.

 

[azz0r]

You are a part of the problem.

Are you a straight male?

 

[The_Mike]

Are you a straight male?

Yes. Your point? Should I get executed for being a straight male?

I can make you hate me even further without even knowing me. I’m also white.

 

[lefty1117]

This point of view never really made much sense to me either.

Sure, there is an untapped user base out there that the general, generic, video games is not necessarily appealing to.

The way it's presented though is as if McDonald's should change the Big Mac because they have a potential untapped vegan and vegetarian customer base out there.

Surely, the correct solution is to offer alternative products for these under served populations?

The main arguments I see are that games need to "grow up" and the like but this doesn't seem like a solution.

I think you would cater to a new audience by offering new products to that audience?
No by adjusting the product and hoping that the lost customers are outweighed by the customers gained?

I'm not sure, for example, to what extent a redesign of Lara Croft's character encourages more sales or even encourages more ladies to pick up a Tomb Raider game?

???

New games in the series are new products. Nobody is going back and changing old pointy boob Lara Croft games. New TR games are being designed to cater to a bit of a different audience. It's up to you if you want to buy it or not. This argument that they're changing something doesn't really apply; every new release is a new product. Fallout 3 is not Fallout 2. Rise of the Tomb Raider is not Tomb Raider Underworld.

 

[InterMusketeer]

Well, no. Most average gamers wouldn't. But then they also wouldn't show such concern when there's a lack of cleavage and the addition of pants.

Such concern?

Friend, it's a thread on an internet website. It's not like men are marching through the streets, rioting, demanding boobs in games.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Yes. Your point? Should I get executed for being a straight male?

I can make you hate me even further without even knowing me. I’m also white.

That last sentence gave me a good chuckle. I can appreciate this level of snark!

 

[bilderberg]

Are you a straight male?

I'm so close to bingo

 

[LucidFeuer]

I was about to say that I'm okay with an equal treatment of fan-service, meaning you either get none in order to develop normal male and female characters, or you could put both males and females for amusement.

Then I read SJWs comment on white male oppression so I though "fuck'em bring fan-service back", and I'm neither white nor binary.

 

[NickFire]

Maybe, maybe not. Who gives a shit though? I don't know of any current games made specifically for straight men by design, but we're still doing just fine in terms of enjoyable content to play.

 

[Senhua]

What does fanservice mean here? If I google images of Aloy in Horizon, she looks pretty attractive and not exactly high-necked:

In witch quite a donwgrade (for me) from the real actress that the character's based upon

Devil may cry 5 also cater for the western market (downgraded female models in game)

 

[Aurelian]

Okay, what's the difference? What's the moral imperative for one and not the other?

Nothing in your reply answered that question. Like the Puritans who tolerated nudity in Classical art yet despised it in popular culture, you seem to be arbitrarily drawing your own lines based on...what?

I explained it earlier to some extent. Bayonetta, as an example, is a character who very consciously chooses her sexuality. She's also there to appeal to guys, don't get me wrong, but nor does she come across as a doll dressed up solely for guys' amusement. Her personality also reflects that. Basically: if you're going to have a sexy character, of any gender, they'd ideally be in control of their sexuality.

If you want the polar opposite of that... well, there's the DOA Xtreme franchise. Women in that series exist solely to be leered at; it's basically five minutes away from turning into one of those grope-and-rape hentai games. Most games don't come anywhere near DOAX's level of creepiness, but it's easy to see some of that mindset seeping into the "why aren't more women in games dressed solely to give men a hard-on?" requests.

 

[Dr. Claus]

I explained it earlier to some extent. Bayonetta, as an example, is a character who very consciously chooses her sexuality. She's also there to appeal to guys, don't get me wrong, but nor does she come across as a doll dressed up solely for guys' amusement. Her personality also reflects that. Basically: if you're going to have a sexy character, of any gender, they'd ideally be in control of their sexuality.

If you want the polar opposite of that... well, there's the DOA Xtreme franchise. Women in that series exist solely to be leered at; it's basically five minutes away from turning into one of those grope-and-rape hentai games. Most games don't come anywhere near DOAX's level of creepiness, but it's easy to see some of that mindset seeping into the "why aren't more women in games dressed solely to give men a hard-on?" requests.

 

[Senhua]

double post

 

[Hendrick's]

Keep these pics coming, the ugly stick has been busy in gaming and these are hilarious.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

I explained it earlier to some extent. Bayonetta, as an example, is a character who very consciously chooses her sexuality.

She is a fictional character. She didn't choose anything. So ascribing a fake "choice" is no justification for her outfit, if that is your criteria.

She's also there to appeal to guys, don't get me wrong, but nor does she come across as a doll dressed up solely for guys' amusement. Her personality also reflects that. Basically: if you're going to have a sexy character, of any gender, they'd ideally be in control of their sexuality.

What -- in particular -- differentiates her sexuality as something "solely for guys' amusement" compared to someone like Lara Croft?

And why is this morally better than a woman who dresses up solely for guys' amusement? Above you said that her "choice" was important. What if a woman chooses to dance nude "solely for guys' amusement"?

We are also ignoring the fact that lesbians exist. Can you please detail why her sexuality is male-only and excludes lesbians and bi?

If you want the polar opposite of that... well, there's the DOA Xtreme franchise. Women in that series exist solely to be leered at; it's basically five minutes away from turning into one of those grope-and-rape hentai games. Most games don't come anywhere near DOAX's level of creepiness, but it's easy to see some of that mindset seeping into the "why aren't more women in games dressed solely to give men a hard-on?" requests.

How do you know they solely exist to be leered at?

This is just a secular version of the puritanical "God is watching you!"

Just a few posts above, you insist that the calls for fanservice are only for men to masturbate. Your problem is that you believe you can read minds. You believe you know what the intention and the motivation is. Every single one of your posts in this thread is dripping with clairvoyance:

Sure it's gross. It's asking games to be pandering and crass because you want to stroke yourself while you're playing.

The problem is, the OP and some others don't really seem to care about that. It sounds more like they're just looking for some masturbation material.

However, I don't believe in clairvoyance. I don't believe you can ascribe motivations and intentions to another person merely based on a loose connection of outward actions.

So, I'd like it if you could please direct me to your Bible -- since your moralizing is clearly based on nothing but religious zeal -- so that I can understand why a fictional character like Bayonetta is making the "choice" to be sexy but Christy from DoA Extreme isn't making that same "choice".

 

[gspat]

You guys haven't watched a pop music video lately have you?

 

[Hendrick's]

You guys haven't watched a pop music video lately have you?

We are talking about games though.

 

[Aurelian]

She is a fictional character. She didn't choose anything. So ascribing a fake "choice" is no justification for her outfit, if that is your criteria.

It's the way the character is constructed. Yes, of course the designers were the ones who chose how she's portrayed, but the point is she's portrayed as someone who knows exactly what she's doing.

What -- in particular -- differentiates her sexuality as something "solely for guys' amusement" compared to someone like Lara Croft?

And why is this morally better than a woman who dresses up solely for guys' amusement? Above you said that her "choice" was important. What if a woman chooses to dance nude "solely for guys' amusement"?

We are also ignoring the fact that lesbians exist. Can you please detail why her sexuality is male-only and excludes lesbians and bi?

Lara Croft's sexuality (in the original games, not the reboot) was disconnected from her personality and rather obviously there for pandering. Bayonetta... well, her sexuality includes some pandering, but it's obvious that she embraces it. And yes, if a woman chooses to dance nude, that's fine.

And yes, I should acknowledge that bi/lesbian/pan/trans women are out there and enjoy female sexuality in games, too. It's just that, let's face it, the developers reducing women to eye candy in games are usually men. Come to think of it, there aren't many games (certainly not AAA blockbusters) that portray female sexuality through an LGBT lens.

 

[Radical Dreamer]

There are plenty of western games with attractive females but yeah I'd be nice to see western devs equivalent of A2/2B from nier when it comes to outfits for example. I think devs these days are either: too scared because nowadays thanks to retarded forums like resetera it's pr nightmare, or too "woke" to portrey women like that (because god forbid). I don't know. Most girls I think like to look and dress sexy sometimes..

 

[Dunki]

Because it was a tired retread? The previous games did well enough. Are you trying to imply the reason it bombed is the lack of sexy costumes and if it at least had a few it'd have sold great or something?

Actually I did not bought the game because of the modern feminismthat was going on in these games. I am also quite bored of the strong independent women character. I just do not care.

Help me understand the OP?! A couple of examples not oversexualizing female characters means no fanservice in Western games for straight men? Please tell me people don't buy into this self victimization.

It is the overall atmosphere. They are way more PC, because if they are not they are getting bombed by era like people telling them how sexist they are.

Pretty much every AAA game is aimed at straight dudes, so yes.

This again is real bullshit. But it seems this lie is very persistent even today. Just like the wage gap. What modern feminism really can do is keeping lies up because people are not able to think anymore.


In General I am quite bored of most western games. And this is also one of the reason. It is too safe women can only be one way in western games why in Japanese games there is much more diverse selection of female characters and yes some are also sexualized just like male characters.

 

[Senhua]

There are plenty of western games with attractive females but yeah I'd be nice to see western devs equivalent of A2/2B from nier when it comes to outfits for example. I think devs these days are either: too scared because nowadays thanks to retarded forums like resetera it's pr nightmare, or too "woke" to portrey women like that (because god forbid). I don't know. Most girls I think like to look and dress sexy sometimes..

They think (as stated by one in the above you) only women have a right to design attractive women to be not be treated as an object. All men's designed women character must be boring/ugly to be not for pandering lol.
Also they need the reason WHY for every time developer design attractive women cause if just for the sake of eye candy thats pandering too.

 

[Reyben]

You guys haven't watched a pop music video lately have you?

I haven't listened to pop music since 1996, however, I was browsing youtube the other day and the Algorithm™ suggested a video that could be it, i'm not sure. It was 4 hot asian girls... Blackpink, I think? The video had hundreds of millions of views, so I guess...?

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

It's the way the character is constructed. Yes, of course the designers were the ones who chose how she's portrayed, but the point is she's portrayed as someone who knows exactly what she's doing.

Be specific. You keep making definitive statements based on nothing. What parts of her construction make it apparent that her sexuality is "her choice" as compared to someone like Lara Croft, who -- as far as I remember -- was never forced to have large breasts or short shorts in terms of the game lore?

Lara Croft's sexuality (in the original games, not the reboot) was disconnected from her personality and rather obviously there for pandering. Bayonetta... well, her sexuality includes some pandering, but it's obvious that she embraces it. And yes, if a woman chooses to dance nude, that's fine.

In what way was it "disconnected" from her personality? What should she have said or done instead in order to make it clear that her sexuality was "her choice"?

Once again, be specific. Help me understand the specific things that Lara Croft did or didn't do that disconnected her physical appearance from her personality.

Otherwise, you're just talking nonsense.

And yes, I should acknowledge that bi/lesbian/pan/trans women are out there and enjoy female sexuality in games, too. It's just that, let's face it, the developers reducing women to eye candy in games are usually men. Come to think of it, there aren't many games (certainly not AAA blockbusters) that portray female sexuality through an LGBT lens.

You've not answered any of my questions. Just more moralizing.

If you don't like sexy women in games, that's your own moral choice. But if you want to pass it off as a moral standard while pretending to magically know the thoughts and intentions of the developers, voice actors, and game-players involved, you'll have to try harder than that.

But I'm giving you a lot of credit. Your behavior is portraying you as another pathetic Puritan whose life is so shallow that you have to police what other people consume in their entertainment products. And I bet you're doing it because you hate men and would like to restrict them to compensate for your own pathetic life.

I mean, that's what I would say if I had clairvoyance like you. Truthfully, I have no clue why you're standing up for fictional characters so passionately.

 

[Horns]

Come on man.

I can post "examples" all night if you want, now your turn.

Please clarify your examples for me. These examples are not fan service to straight men because they are women characters or you feel they are not sexualized?

 

[Sub_Level]

I see what you're saying OP. Only one I can think of is Overwatch. Which is funny since that game is very popular with women.

That being said, while I do wanna see more sexy women in games, the lack of them doesn't take anything away from the game. The ugly ass characters in Prey, for example, don't make it any less of a 5/5 game.