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ISIS blows up ancient Burial site and Mosque of Jonah (of the whale story) in Mosul

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Islamic State jihadis destroy ancient mosque in Mosul

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BAGHDAD: Islamic extremist militants blew up a revered Muslim shrine traditionally said to be the burial place of the Prophet Jonah in Iraq’s second-largest city, Mosul, on Thursday, residents of the city said.

The residents said the Islamic State militants, who overran Mosul in June and imposed their harsh interpretation of Islamic law on the city, first ordered everyone out of the Mosque of the Prophet Younes, or Jonah, then blew it up.

The mosque was built on an archaeological site dating back to 8th century BC and is said to be the burial place of the prophet, who in stories from both the Bible and Qur’an is swallowed by a whale.

It was renovated in the 1990s under Iraq’s late dictator Saddam Hussein and until the recent militant blitz that engulfed Mosul, remained a popular destination for religious pilgrims from around the world.

Several nearby houses were also damaged by the blast, said the residents, speaking on condition of anonymity because they feared for their own safety. The residents told The Associated Press that the militants claimed the mosque had become a place for apostasy, not prayer. The extremists also blew up another mosque nearby on Thursday, Imam Aoun Bin Al-Hassan mosque, they said.

The attack came hours after Iraqi lawmakers elected veteran Kurdish politician Fouad Massoum as the nation’s new president, as they struggle to form a new government amid the militant blitz that has engulfed much of northern and western Iraq.

Iraq is facing its worst crisis since the 2011 withdrawal of US troops amid the blitz offensive last month by Al-Qaeda breakaway Islamic State group that captured large swaths of land in the country’s west and north, including Iraq’s second largest city of Mosul. The militants have also seized a huge chunk of territory straddling the Iraq-Syria border, and have declared a self-styled caliphate in the territory they control.
This is...spectacularly messed up! I can't even imagine. Prophet Yonus is revered in Islam...this is like blowing up Prophet Muhammad's mosque in Medina, and it's Green Dome (Green Dome of the Medina's mosque is under where Prophet Muhammad is buried).

Wow.
Edit:
 
Stuff like this makes their rule very unlikely. Sure they capture a lot of land, but stunts like this actually make a lot of people angry, even their supporters. How can they expect to hold their captured land if their people hate them? Add to the fact that their numbers are mostly bolstered by people upset with the Baghdad government and not people who actually believe in their ideals... they won't last very long.
 

linkboy

Member
Stuff like this makes their rule very unlikely. Sure they capture a lot of land, but stunts like this actually make a lot of people angry, even their supporters. How can they expect to hold their captured land if their people hate them? Add to the fact that their numbers are mostly bolstered by people upset with the Baghdad government and not people who actually believe in their ideals... they won't last very long.

Several nearby houses were also damaged by the blast, said the residents, speaking on condition of anonymity because they feared for their own safety

These nutjobs have shown that they don't give two shits about human life, they'll use whatever means they can to gain power and use whatever means they can to keep it.

And it's not going to end well for them, since its going to reach a point where, as much as people don't want it, western nations are going to have get involved if the Iraqi's can't handle it (which isn't looking likely).
 

Amir0x

Banned
Nothing about them should be taken as a legitimate representation of Islam. They have bastardized its teachings to the point of it being unrecognizable.

is there actually a 'legitimate representation of Islam'? Is there actually a 'legitimate representation of Christianity'? The problem with these religions and their holy books is that sure, you can follow some of it and produce a religion/ideology that is relatively harmless. Or you can read some of the worst passages within them and produce a religion/ideology that is incredibly damaging to the world around them.

There is no 'legitimate expression' of religions like this. That's why it's all problematic to begin with. Your interpretation cannot be said to be any more viable then theirs, since religions functions on being enigmatic.
 
is there actually a 'legitimate representation of Islam'? Is there actually a 'legitimate representation of Christianity'? The problem with these religions and their holy books is that sure, you can follow some of it and produce a religion/ideology that is relatively harmless. Or you can read some of the worst passages within them and produce a religion/ideology that is incredibly damaging to the world around them.

There is no 'legitimate expression' of religions like this. That's why it's all problematic to begin with. Your interpretation cannot be said to be any more viable then theirs, since religions functions on being enigmatic.

There is one simple answer. Using violence to promote the spread of your view (any religion or ideology) is not Islamic. And NO, Islam as a religion was NOT spread by violence by force that is the orientalist view not the Islamic view. And NO, Islam does not call on to kill all jews and all non Muslims and No, Islam does not call on to BEAT wives. And NO, Islam does not call on the killing of Homosexuals. And NO, Islam does not call on the killing of Apostates. And NO, Islam does not say Jihad means 'Killing the Infidel'. And YES, All these No's are only changed to yes by those who don't dislike Islam and don't understand it AND ideologies like those followed by Taliban and ISIS.
 

Yasir

Member
Nothing about them should be taken as a legitimate representation of Islam. They have bastardized its teachings to the point of it being completely unrecognizable.

This a million times. The scholars are unanimous in Isis' being a bunch of pigs (not verbatim).
By scholars i exclude the self taught wahabi spokesmen.
 
is there actually a 'legitimate representation of Islam'? Is there actually a 'legitimate representation of Christianity'? The problem with these religions and their holy books is that sure, you can follow some of it and produce a religion/ideology that is relatively harmless. Or you can read some of the worst passages within them and produce a religion/ideology that is incredibly damaging to the world around them.

There is no 'legitimate expression' of religions like this. That's why it's all problematic to begin with. Your interpretation cannot be said to be any more viable then theirs, since religions functions on being enigmatic.

Well I'm just saying, yeah there are different sects with different interpretations, there's religious extremism and then there's just uncivilized barbarism and assertion of power for dominance. Yes interpretations have changed over the centuries and in the case of religions like Christianity, we do see some modernization.

But while I haven't read the Qu'ran in a long time, I don't recall anything about mutilating childrens' vaginas.
 
Fear. Thats how Taliban won.

Several nearby houses were also damaged by the blast, said the residents, speaking on condition of anonymity because they feared for their own safety

These nutjobs have shown that they don't give two shits about human life, they'll use whatever means they can to gain power and use whatever means they can to keep it.

And it's not going to end well for them, since its going to reach a point where, as much as people don't want it, western nations are going to have get involved if the Iraqi's can't handle it (which isn't looking likely).

Fear only works if it's offset by good deeds by the government. Machiavelli's "The Prince" really stresses this. A good example--a noble prince was given some small land in the Italian peninsula and put a strict and cruel man in charge of it. He ruled through fear, but the people were ready to revolt because he used too much of it. The solution? The prince went to the land and had that previous governor executed by being cut in half. He then left the two halves in a public place. The message was simple--the prince was willing to make things good for the people and protect them, but he was willing to use cruelty as well to those who went against him. With ISIS, we have a group of people who have done nothing but scare off many of their supporters and inspire fear into the people. Unless they do some genuine good deeds, they'll face protests and revolution sooner or later.
 
is there actually a 'legitimate representation of Islam'? Is there actually a 'legitimate representation of Christianity'? The problem with these religions and their holy books is that sure, you can follow some of it and produce a religion/ideology that is relatively harmless. Or you can read some of the worst passages within them and produce a religion/ideology that is incredibly damaging to the world around them.

There is no 'legitimate expression' of religions like this. That's why it's all problematic to begin with. Your interpretation cannot be said to be any more viable then theirs, since religions functions on being enigmatic.
I would say a 'legitimate expression' of Islam as a polity would be the Rashidun Caliphate since those Caliphs were the closest companions as well as family of Muhammad. Also Muhammad's rule after Constitution of Medina was drafted.
 

nib95

Banned
It's times like this when you sort of wish Saddam was still in power. What a damn mess Iraq now is. ISIS needs to be dealt with and dealt with quickly.
 

Baki

Member
I hope these guys are taken down. A new cancer in the Middle East.

Was it ever confirmed that the ISIS leader had CIA training ?
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member

May be of interest. Dark red is area currently under ISIS control, light red is area currently claimed by ISIS.
 

potam

Banned
is there actually a 'legitimate representation of Islam'? Is there actually a 'legitimate representation of Christianity'? The problem with these religions and their holy books is that sure, you can follow some of it and produce a religion/ideology that is relatively harmless. Or you can read some of the worst passages within them and produce a religion/ideology that is incredibly damaging to the world around them.

There is no 'legitimate expression' of religions like this. That's why it's all problematic to begin with. Your interpretation cannot be said to be any more viable then theirs, since religions functions on being enigmatic.

A legitimate representation of any of the major religions are the millions of people who just want to help their fellow man and do good. At their roots, the major religions just want the world to be a better place.

So yes, people like this, as well as most "religious" people I would argue, do represent some sort of bastardized form of their respective religions.
 

Salmonax

Member
It's times like this when you sort of wish Saddam was still in power. What a damn mess Iraq now is. ISIS needs to be dealt with and dealt with quickly.

He was the absolute epitome of "the devil you know." This is really tragic. It seems like across all societies, if you belong to a group that longs to return to an idealized vision of the past, you're pretty much universally on the wrong side.
 

Borgnine

MBA in pussy licensing and rights management
Well.... on the bright side, it probably wasn't actually the burial place of Jonah.
 
is there actually a 'legitimate representation of Islam'? Is there actually a 'legitimate representation of Christianity'? The problem with these religions and their holy books is that sure, you can follow some of it and produce a religion/ideology that is relatively harmless. Or you can read some of the worst passages within them and produce a religion/ideology that is incredibly damaging to the world around them.

There is no 'legitimate expression' of religions like this. That's why it's all problematic to begin with. Your interpretation cannot be said to be any more viable then theirs, since religions functions on being enigmatic.

There's "ok, that's one interpretation" and there's "wow, these guys are nuts."
 

Amir0x

Banned
There is one simple answer. Using violence to promote the spread of your view (any religion or ideology) is not Islamic. And NO, Islam as a religion was NOT spread by violence by force that is the orientalist view not the Islamic view.

But that is your interpretation. I've read some of the dissertations written by Islamic extremists and Christian extremists. They all justify their behavior with passages used from the holy book, while ignoring others. The same way "positive" Christianity ignores passages about stoning children who don't listen to their parents, for example, while expressing that Jesus ministry was all about love.

The issue isn't whether your interpretation would be ideal or not. Of course it would. I hope all in Islam and Christianity and all other faiths subscribe to this position.

The problem however is that it is not so simple. Because the second you give divine authority to a book that is incredibly open to interpretation (and both are, indisputably), then you have people who will interpret it this way. And, I'm sorry to say, they cannot be said to be more 'wrong' than you are, except that your way happens to be ethically/morally right by common sense.

I want to emphasize I am not justifying these acts. These are horrible people, and I hope more people think like you do. I am simply expressing why there is so much problem with trying to make it this simple.

I would say a 'legitimate expression' of Islam as a polity would be the Rashidun Caliphate since those Caliphs were the closest companions as well as family of Muhammad. Also Muhammad's rule after Constitution of Medina was drafted.

But even in that event, that's only their interpretation of what Muhammad would have wanted. Without being Muhammad, there's no way to know what he actually would have wanted (we won't even touch how problematic it is to give such authority in a single individual like Muhammad in the first place, so I'll set that aside).

And while I agree with you that these are closer to the ideals such a faith should live up to, even those who believed in the Rashidun Caliphate and followed its authority collectively committed some horrible acts over the years in the name of faith.

Well I'm just saying, yeah there are different sects with different interpretations, there's religious extremism and then there's just uncivilized barbarism and assertion of power for dominance. Yes interpretations have changed over the centuries and in the case of religions like Christianity, we do see some modernization.

But while I haven't read the Qu'ran in a long time, I don't recall anything about mutilating childrens' vaginas.

I don't either. But believe me, you can use holy books to justify just about anything. And we've seen just about anything used to justify all manner of horrible acts over the years.

For the sake of discussion, I want you to realize that I am not dismissing your interpretation whatsoever. I am simply trying to argue that the reason we see stuff like this is because it is not so simple.
 

Alebrije

Member
Sometimes I think that if Sadam were still alive a ruling the country , this wont be news and so much people could still be alive now.

Also how this ISIS group took control of large territories?
 

Amir0x

Banned
Sometimes I think that if Sadam were still alive a ruling the country , this wont be news and so much people could still be alive now.

Also how this ISIS group took control of large territories?

I think that's pretty inarguable. Of course Sadam and his family would just be committing other horrible acts. But that might be preferable to this mess. Thanks GWB!
 
But that is your interpretation. I've read some of the dissertations written by Islamic extremists and Christian extremists. They all justify their behavior with passages used from the holy book, while ignoring others. The same way "positive" Christianity ignores passages about stoning children who don't listen to their parents, for example, while expressing that Jesus ministry was all about love.

The issue isn't whether your interpretation would be ideal or not. Of course it would. I hope all in Islam and Christianity and all other faiths subscribe to this position.

The problem however is that it is not so simple. Because the second you give divine authority to a book that is incredibly open to interpretation (and both are, indisputably), then you have people who will interpret it this way. And, I'm sorry to say, they cannot be said to be more 'wrong' than you are, except that your way happens to be ethically/morally right by common sense.

I want to emphasize I am not justifying these acts. These are horrible people, and I hope more people think like you do. I am simply expressing why there is so much problem with trying to make it this simple.



But even in that event, that's only their interpretation of what Muhammad would have wanted. Without being Muhammad, there's no way to know what he actually would have wanted.

And while I agree with you that these are closer to the ideals such a faith should live up to, even those who believed in the Rashidun Caliphate and followed its authority collectively committed some horrible acts over the years in the name of faith.



I don't either. But believe me, you can use holy books to justify just about anything. And we've seen just about anything used to justify all manner of horrible acts over the years.

For the sake of discussion, I want you to realize that I am not dismissing your interpretation whatsoever. I am simply trying to argue that the reason we see stuff like this is because it is not so simple.

Of course that is my interpretation. Anyone can use any interpretation of how a betterment of society is better from my point of view. Hitler thought he was doing society good by ethnically cleansing people. He was not. That was HIS view. People who are religious and non-religious have their own view of how the world should run. What should be is more clear is what the religious texts AND examples say. There is NOWHERE in the Quran where Homosexuals are to be punished. There is NOWHERE in the Quran than Apostates are to punished. There is NOWHERE in the Quran that wives have to be beaten.

Now the person who is not well intentioned WILL find a way to say Quran says Homosexuals and Apostates need to be punished and a radical will find a way to say a wife is subservient and needs to be beaten. That is their interpretation. What the 3rd person has to do is not say, well that is your view what about this view. it is ALSO up to you which interpretation of Islam you think is the right one or SHOULD be the right one. Just because one has the more extreme version of interpretation does not mean you have to give that interpretation the right to air itself BECAUSE its extreme, because that would be disingenuous right? The 3rd person should support only the view that is closest to what the text says. Which is what the Quran says.


'There is NO compulsion in religion'

That is the essence of every rule and law of Islam. You CANNOT....and should NOT enforce Islam or YOUR view of it on ANYONE. This is also the reason Islam does not allow an Islamic state as opposed to secular state due to different religions and sects.
 
To think that this thing was standing there for so many centuries to be demolished by this :( Thats realy sad. What kind of society is this that we live in?
 
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