Support NeoGAF

[User 100115]

This upsets me from a historical prospective. All that history, gone That hurts.

 

[jond76]

Jesus. Such an old building. All that history. Destroyed.

Thought the same thing. Gone now. Simpleton terrorists.

 

[Amir0x]

Jesus. I'm really at a loss to why they would blow up these old mosques.

So sad to think a lot of these historical places survived so much only to be brought down by some crazy cunts.

It's infuriating.

They do have a reason. It's because they believe practitioners within that branch of Islam are not correctly following Muhammad's teachings.

The problem is the question of 'what does it mean to correctly follow Muhammad's teachings?' These guys are assholes, but I don't know how to disconnect them from the fact that they are interpreting actual scripture within these holy books.

 

[speculawyer]

But that is your interpretation. I've read some of the dissertations written by Islamic extremists and Christian extremists. They all justify their behavior with passages used from the holy book, while ignoring others. The same way "positive" Christianity ignores passages about stoning children who don't listen to their parents, for example, while expressing that Jesus ministry was all about love.

The issue isn't whether your interpretation would be ideal or not. Of course it would. I hope all in Islam and Christianity and all other faiths subscribe to this position.

The problem however is that it is not so simple. Because the second you give divine authority to a book that is incredibly open to interpretation (and both are, indisputably), then you have people who will interpret it this way. And, I'm sorry to say, they cannot be said to be more 'wrong' than you are, except that your way happens to be ethically/morally right by common sense.

Yeah . . . this is an endless problem. People can interpret holy books in all sorts of crazy ways. And they do.

Fresh Air on Boko Haram:
http://www.npr.org/2014/07/16/33198...am-more-extreme-than-al-qaida-journalist-says

crazy crazy crazy

 

[speculawyer]

This upsets me from a historical prospective. All that history, gone That hurts.

 

[Amir0x]

Yeah . . . this is an endless problem. People can interpret holy books in all sorts of crazy ways. And they do.

Fresh Air on Boko Haram:
http://www.npr.org/2014/07/16/33198...am-more-extreme-than-al-qaida-journalist-says

crazy crazy crazy

I found this part fascinating, from the summary:

I read [Osama] bin Laden's letters from the stash that was picked up from Abbottabad [Pakistan] after he was killed — and it's really interesting. After about 2007, he clearly rethinks the whole project and starts writing all these letters to different groups around the world saying, "Calm down. Stop the killing. Stop making us so unpopular."

Think about what this means. It means one of the individuals involved in the 9/11 attacks doesn't even know when enough is enough, and interprets Islam differently based on his evolved worldview in time. it just grows even more complex.

We really need to evaluate what it means to give absolute authority to any figure, no matter how beyond criticism it was assumed they are. And what it means to present an infinitely interpretable book as divine authority.

 

[Fury Sense]

saw this on facebook

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_world_/2014/07/17/the_middle_east_friendship_chart.html

 

[jchap]

they blow up anything that isn't as extreme as them. it's a race to the top of extremism.

Phew... Doritos and Mountain Dew are safe

 

[GameAddict411]

There is one simple answer. Using violence to promote the spread of your view (any religion or ideology) is not Islamic. And NO, Islam as a religion was NOT spread by violence by force that is the orientalist view not the Islamic view. And NO, Islam does not call on to kill all jews and all non Muslims and No, Islam does not call on to BEAT wives. And NO, Islam does not call on the killing of Homosexuals. And NO, Islam does not call on the killing of Apostates. And NO, Islam does not say Jihad means 'Killing the Infidel'. And YES, All these No's are only changed to yes by those who don't dislike Islam and don't understand it AND ideologies like those followed by Taliban and ISIS.

nope, i won't even provide evidence.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

They do have a reason. It's because they believe practitioners within that branch of Islam are not correctly following Muhammad's teachings.

The problem is the question of 'what does it mean to correctly follow Muhammad's teachings?' These guys are assholes, but I don't know how to disconnect them from the fact that they are interpreting actual scripture within these holy books.

Sigh, that's some of the most stupidest reasoning I'll ever hear for the destruction of places of historical significance.

I hate talking religion, but it really feels like something has to be done to stop things like this happening. I don't know what, but it's so infuriating when stories like this pop up.

We're losing so much of our history as a people because some dicks think it's not aligned to how they interpret some thousand+ year old texts.

 

[Jackpot]

Can anyone find any other sources? All I can find on mainstream sites is the doubts over the ISIS FGM edict.

 

[Amir0x]

Sigh, that's some of the most stupidest reasoning I'll ever hear for the destruction of places of historical significance.

I hate talking religion, but it really feels like something has to be done to stop things like this happening. I don't know what, but it's so infuriating when stories like this pop up.

We're losing so much of our history as a people because some dicks think it's not aligned to how they interpret some thousand+ year old texts.

You don't know the half of it. In Timbuktu, one of the greatest reservoirs of ancient knowledge from Afrika, Islamic extremists destroyed some of the oldest texts we have from the region. Entire libraries which contained irreplaceable texts that confirm the illustrious history of not only Islam, but all of Afrika, was systematically destroyed, stuff that you can't even imagine how impossible it is to replace. The history of some of the oldest peoples and civilization on Earth, eradicated. And as you can imagine, given how important Afrika was to human history, what precisely that means.

They don't give a fuck.

Can anyone find any other sources? All I can find on mainstream sites is the doubts over the ISIS FGM edict.

Alt Source

 

[Lamel]

How does that make any sense. This just shows that this shit isn't in the name of religion, just power. Muslim world needs to use this to band together and do something about these shits.

 

[Dryk]

Jesus. Such an old building. All that history. Destroyed.

People that destroy historical artifacts make me so mad. We can't ever get that back now you disrepectful fucks.

 

[Toxi]

saw this on facebook

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_world_/2014/07/17/the_middle_east_friendship_chart.html

So basically, nobody likes ISIS because they're a bunch of insane bastards who perform mass ethnic cleansing and vandalize historical and religious monuments.

 

[Suen]

Some news outlets are reporting that officials around and in the Mosul area are saying that ISIS has destroyed/damaged about 30 shrines, 15 of them being Shia shrines.

They are also reporting that the shrines of John The Baptist, Daniel and Ao'un Al Din have been demolished by the terrorists. The first shrine we're talking about is something that was built in the 7th century if this is true.

edit: Ao'un Al Din is already mentioned in the OP, don't think the other two are mentioned.

 

[j_k_redtail]

so...militant Islamic extremists blow up mosques now? what?

If I'm understanding correctly, ISIS practices a brand of Islam that isn't too fond of "shrines" or "holy sites". So... expect more of this.

 

[speculawyer]

How does that make any sense. This just shows that this shit isn't in the name of religion, just power. Muslim world needs to use this to band together and do something about these shits.

Lol. This whole fight is about how they can't get along.

 

[speculawyer]

saw this on facebook

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_world_/2014/07/17/the_middle_east_friendship_chart.html

Alqueada should have unhappy with all I'd say. USA should have happy with Turkey.

 

[Toa TAK]

Can someone explain why Jonah got a mosque named after him?

Yeah, yeah, second chances and learned not to run away like a punk from his job-slash-responsibility to God and all, but dude still wanted Nineveh blown up and whined like a bitch at the end.

Should be Solomon instead.

 

[RustyNails]

Can someone explain why Jonah got a mosque named after him?

Jonah is supposed to be buried in it. Lot of Biblical Prophets have their graves in Levant, mostly under Muslim houses of worship. Whether they are real or not is another question.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Now hold on guys, we need to here the other side of the story.

Wheres that dude.

 

[Hackworth]

Now hold on guys, we need to here the other side of the story.

Wheres that dude.

Pretty sure 97% of the worlds extremists think ISIS are balls to the wall crazy, and Boko Haram think they aren't crazy enough.

 

[Toa TAK]

Jonah is supposed to be buried in it. Lot of Biblical Prophets have their graves in Levant, mostly under Muslim houses of worship. Whether they are real or not is another question.

Okay that makes sense. Much better than naming it for his "greatness".

 

[Darknight]

Well I hope nations around Iraq help them or try to stop these assholes. Why would you let this threat keep spreading in your neighborhood?

Whatever the case, the US must stay the fuck out of these cases. Its a losing battle.

 

[genjiZERO]

This type of shit makes it hard not to become misanthropic.

 

[Dude Abides]

Now hold on guys, we need to here the other side of the story.

Wheres that dude.

liger? he got banned.

 

[Suen]

liger? he got banned.

kobashi

 

[nib95]

I found this part fascinating, from the summary:



Think about what this means. It means one of the individuals involved in the 9/11 attacks doesn't even know when enough is enough, and interprets Islam differently based on his evolved worldview in time. it just grows even more complex.

We really need to evaluate what it means to give absolute authority to any figure, no matter how beyond criticism it was assumed they are. And what it means to present an infinitely interpretable book as divine authority.

Most terrorists aren't fuelled by religion though. They just use it as a justification or promotional tool. Eg the way Americans used Manifest Destiny as a religious tool to steal land from the native Americans. The expansion of land being the main purpose and goal.

By in large these terrorists operate on politically motivated and charged reasoning. Eg they dislike x, y or z countries foreign policy, unjust wars in the middle East, reject occupations or opposing sects or factions taking power etc. I mean, most give these very reasons in their little videos they release before carrying out acts of terror or violence. If religion was taken out of the context, I doubt the situation would change much. Only the method of promotion would. Eg, they'd claim the enemy posed a grave threat (weapons of mass destruction etc) instead of them simply being infidels or whatever else.

 

[thequickandthedead]

We really need to evaluate what it means to give absolute authority to any figure, no matter how beyond criticism it was assumed they are. And what it means to present an infinitely interpretable book as divine authority.

Interested to hear your opinion on this: www.islamqa.info/en/90112

 

[timetokill]

Normally, I'd say why should the US do anything, but they have a responsibility here because it was their war in Iraq that is the reason this has happened.

it wasn't just the US' war. why not let the uk handle it or Australia or Poland or whatever

 

[speculawyer]

Interested to hear your opinion on this: www.islamqa.info/en/90112

Just more ramblings of one guy's opinions.

 

[Eighty Deuce]

Real talk, ISIS members should have their dicks chopped off.

 

[m_shortpants]

whoops, wrong thread.

 

[Jeels]

I hate when historical buildings are destroyed like this. scum.

 

[Fusebox]

saw this on facebook

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_world_/2014/07/17/the_middle_east_friendship_chart.html

The USA/Israel face needs a boner.

 

[Kenshin001]

Most terrorists aren't fuelled by religion though. They just use it as a justification or promotional tool. Eg the way Americans used Manifest Destiny as a religious tool to steal land from the native Americans. The expansion of land being the main purpose and goal.

By in large these terrorists operate on politically motivated and charged reasoning. Eg they dislike x, y or z countries foreign policy, unjust wars in the middle East, reject occupations or opposing sects or factions taking power etc. I mean, most give these very reasons in their little videos they release before carrying out acts of terror or violence. If religion was taken out of the context, I doubt the situation would change much. Only the method of promotion would. Eg, they'd claim the enemy posed a grave threat (weapons of mass destruction etc) instead of them simply being infidels or whatever else.

Most of these groups' stated goal is to set up their own Islamic state though. If religion were taken out of the equation they would have no reason to exist. Even when there is a cause like the toppling of Assad, factions fight each other in Syria because the extremists are driven by a religious ideology.

 

[Currygan]

destroying ancient monuments is one of the worst thing the human race can do. Fucking imbeciles

 

[gutter_trash]

Well I hope nations around Iraq help them or try to stop these assholes. Why would you let this threat keep spreading in your neighborhood?

Whatever the case, the US must stay the fuck out of these cases. Its a losing battle.

remember last year when people here were saying how much of an asshole Bashar Al-Asad was?

Now guess what, it is in the West's best interest that Bashar Al-Assad stays strong and that Syria doesn't fall into the hands of ISIS.

Anyway, all this shit wouldn't be discussed if Saddam Hussein was still running the show in Iraq

 

[Kenshin001]

remember last year when people here were saying how much of an asshole Bashar Al-Asad was?

Now guess what, it is in the West's best interest that Bashar Al-Assad stays strong and that Syria doesn't fall into the hands of ISIS.

Anyway, all this shit wouldn't be discussed if Saddam Hussein was still running the show in Iraq

That's right. He only gassed a few thousand Kurds and slaughtered Shiites. At least he protected the ancient sites.

 

[victreeb3l]

Fuck these pieces of shit and those that fund them. I'm really tired of this shit but what pisses me off is that I cant do anything about this.

 

[ZaCH3000]

This reeks of something foul.

It just doesn't make sense. I don't buy they're crazy either.

 

[tonkatsu_ramen]

I think its time to relocate historical relics and artifacts from these middle east hotspots and relocate them to somewhere safer like in the west. We really have to preserve the historical record before these islamic extremists blow everything up.

 

[speculawyer]

This reeks of something foul.

It just doesn't make sense. I don't buy they're crazy either.

They are not really crazy. They are just real hardcore religious zealots. That's how they roll.

 

[speculawyer]

I think its time to relocate historical relics and artifacts from these middle east hotspots and relocate them to somewhere safer like in the west. We really have to preserve the historical record before these islamic extremists blow everything up.

Yeah there are lots of essentially stolen stuff in British museums . . .But after this, the museums looted in Iraq, the museums looted in the Egyptian uprising, etc. Maybe they should stay there for a while. :-/

 

[outunderthestars]

They are not really crazy. They are just real hardcore religious zealots. That's how they roll.

Some say potato.....

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

How is ISIS still a thing? They have seemingly pissed off every muslim nation in the region and everyone outside of that religion too. I don't understand.

 

[ZaCH3000]

They are not really crazy. They are just real hardcore religious zealots. That's how they roll.

You don't think the leaders of this organization are aware of what the world's perception is of them?

How about Muslim reaction to such attacks? It doesn't make any tactical sense to destroy these religious relics without assuming absolute dominance over the region.

In this particular case, I'm not willing to write them off as hardcore religious zealots.

Given the rapid nature of retaking Iraqi terriotry, previously occupied by American forces might I add, it almost appears as if this organization had access to sensitive informstion.

Idk, I'm not going into it more since it is a hunch, but here is to hoping an investigative journalist out there finds some dirt on this shit.

 

[speculawyer]

You don't think the leaders of this organization are aware of what the world's perception is of them?

How about Muslim reaction to such attacks? It doesn't make any tactical sense to destroy these religious relics without assuming absolute dominance over the region.

In this particular case, I'm not willing to write them off as hardcore religious zealots.

Given the rapid nature of retaking Iraqi terriotry, previously occupied by American forces might I add, it almost appears as if this organization had access to sensitive informstion.

Idk, I'm not going into it more since it is a hunch, but here is to hoping an investigative journalist out there finds some dirt on this shit.

Alqueada
AlShabab
Boko Haram
iSIS
Fred Phelps
Jim Jones

It is not like nutty religious groups that don't give a crap about what others think is a rare or new thing.

 

[speculawyer]

How is ISIS still a thing? They have seemingly pissed off every muslim nation in the region and everyone outside of that religion too. I don't understand.

Because Iraq military is shit and no one else wants to get involved.

Let them be a nusciance until Saudi Arabia or Iran deals with them.