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It begins -- The Pardonings: Bush Edition

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G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
WASHINGTON - President George W. Bush has granted pardons to 14 individuals and commuted the prison sentences of two others, including a rapper, convicted of misdeeds ranging from drug offenses to tax evasion, from wildlife violations to bank embezzlement, The Associated Press learned Monday.

The new round of White House pardons are Bush’s first since March and come less than two months before he will end his presidency. The crimes committed by those on the list also include offenses involving hazardous waste, food stamps, and the theft of government property.

Not on the pardon list is Scooter Libby, former chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney, who was convicted in 2007 of obstruction of justice and perjury during an investigation into the leaking of the identity of CIA officer Valerie Plame. Bush commuted Libby's 30-month prison sentence.

Bush has been stingy during his time in office about handing out reprieves.

Including these actions, he has granted a total of 171 and eight commutations. That’s less than half as many as Presidents Clinton or Reagan issued during their time in office. Both were two-term presidents.

On the latest pardon list were:

—Leslie Owen Collier of Charleston, Mo. She was convicted for unauthorized use of a pesticide and violating the Bald and Golden Eagle Protection Act.

—Milton Kirk Cordes of Rapid City, S.D. Cordes was convicted of conspiracy to violate the Lacey Act, which prohibits importation into the country of wildlife taken in violation of conservation laws.

—Richard Micheal Culpepper of Mahomet, Ill., who was convicted of making false statements to the federal government.

—Brenda Jean Dolenz-Helmer of Fort Worth, Texas, for reporting or helping cover up a crime.

—Andrew Foster Harley of Falls Church, Va. Harley was convicted of wrongful use and distribution of marijuana and cocaine.

—Obie Gene Helton of Rossville, Ga., whose offense was unauthorized acquisition of food stamps.

—Carey C. Hice Sr. of Travelers Rest, S.C., who was convicted of income tax evasion.

—Geneva Yvonne Hogg of Jacksonville, Fla., convicted of bank embezzlement.

—William Hoyle McCright Jr. of Midland, Texas, who was sentenced for making false entries, books, reports or statements to a bank.

—Paul Julian McCurdy of Sulphur, Okla., who was sentenced for misapplication of bank funds.

—Robert Earl Mohon Jr. of Grant, Ala., who was convicted of conspiracy to distribute marijuana.

—Ronald Alan Mohrhoff of Los Angeles, who was convicted for unlawful use of a telephone in a narcotics felony.

—Daniel Figh Pue III of Conroe, Texas, convicted of illegal treatment, storage and disposal of a hazardous waste without a permit.

—Orion Lynn Vick of White Hall, Ark., who was convicted of aiding and abetting the theft of government property.

Bush also commuted the prison sentences of John Edward Forte of North Brunswick, N.J., and James Russell Harris of Detroit, Mich. Both were convicted of cocaine offenses.

Forte, a well-known hip hop artist, worked with the Fugees, Wyclef Jean and Herbie Hancock.

Pardon orders never give a reason, but NBC News' Pete Williams reported that in Forte's case, it is likely the mandatory minimum sentences required in drug cases. Here's how fans of Forte's put it on a Web site dedicated to him:

"John Forte's life was forever changed in July of 2000. He agreed to transport a package, and in turn was arrested on a drug trafficking charge. He did not accept the plea bargain offered him, as he maintained that he was innocent of the charges against him.

"In 2001, John Forté stood trial in a Texas court and was convicted of this non-violent crime. It was his first offense. Due to the outdated mandatory minimum sentencing laws currently in place, he received the only prison term available for the judge to hand down — 14 years in a federal penitentiary. John is not eligible to be released until he is at least 38 years old."

Under the Constitution, the president’s power to issue pardons is absolute and cannot be overruled.

Some high-profile individuals, such as Michael Milken, are seeking a pardon on securities fraud charges. Two politicians convicted of public corruption — former Rep. Randy “Duke” Cunningham, R-Calif., and four-term Democratic Louisiana Gov. Edwin W. Edwards — are asking Bush to shorten their prison terms.

One hot topic of discussion related to pardons is whether Bush might decide to issue pre-emptive pardons before he leaves office to government employees who authorized or engaged in harsh interrogations of suspected terrorists in the wake of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. Some constitutional scholars and human rights groups want the incoming administration of President-elect Barack Obama to investigate possible war crimes.

If Bush were to pardon anyone involved, it would provide protection against criminal charges, particularly for people who were following orders or trying to protect the nation with their actions. But it would also be highly controversial.

At the same time, Obama advisers say there is little — if any — chance that his administration would bring criminal charges.
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27895909/

Why do we give Presidents this power again?
 
Q

QVT

Fair-weather, with pride!
yeah man fort is doing a 20
oh shit a 20 that's harsh
yeah but he a soldier

the fuck fort what you doing out
got a pardon rofl
 
G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
biggkidd32 said:
To Bush's credit he's only pardoned about half of Clinton's and Reagan's pardon count.
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Which is an incrediably misleading statisitic when you consider that Presidents give out most of their pardons at the very end, which Bush hasn't reached yet.
 
S

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
mre said:
In theory it's a check for the executive branch against the legislative and judicial branches.
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yeah, the executive branch is supposed to be in charge of enforcing laws.. so technically they are supposed to have the power to check the judicial for misinterpreting law.

Really, it is just an excuse to pardon people for nonviolent crimes every 4-8 years.
 
E

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
The US should do away with the fucking dumb pardons bullshit. Should be the newly elected president, at worst, who gets to pardon. To protect people against crooked presidents.
 
M

mre

Golden Domers are chickenshit!!
StoOgE said:
yeah, the executive branch is supposed to be in charge of enforcing laws.. so technically they are supposed to have the power to check the judicial for misinterpreting law.

Really, it is just an excuse to pardon people for nonviolent crimes every 4-8 years.
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Hence the "in theory." :p
 
S

Servbot #42

Unconfirmed Member
Btw bush can pardon himself and his entire people if he chooses to, it's pretty fucked up if you think about it. But that is the insane power that Presidents have :(
 
M

mre

Golden Domers are chickenshit!!
JzeroT1437 said:
Can the next president revoke a pardon?
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No.

Hootie said:
God damnit when is this shit going to end....
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I'm not getting the backlash on this one. I mean, if he had pardoned Scooter Libby or the other politicians mentioned in the article I could understand that. But he hasn't (yet). Seems to me like many of these people were sentenced for crimes that GAF disagrees with, so where's the beef?
 
A

Althane

Member
Just for anyone who doesn't really know anything about pardons:

Presidential pardons are damn near infinite in power. The only thing you can do that a pardon can't, well, pardon you for is be impeached.

I'm pretty sure that pardons can even cover some future crimes.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Lots of white-collar criminals and environmental criminals . . . GOP style criminals.

I wonder who all these drug offenders are? Relatives to big donors?
 
B

birdman

Member
Gexecuter said:
Btw bush can pardon himself and his entire people if he chooses to, it's pretty fucked up if you think about it. But that is the insane power that Presidents have :(
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I'm pretty sure he already signed a bill into law that covers his ass, at least with the mistreatment of detainees.
 
J

JzeroT1437

Member
mre said:
I'm not getting the backlash on this one. I mean, if he had pardoned Scooter Libby or the other politicians mentioned in the article I could understand that. But he hasn't (yet). Seems to me like many of these people were sentenced for crimes that GAF disagrees with, so where's the beef?
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If he pardons Scooter Libby then he'll be marked as the new (stupid) Nixon. There's no way he's going out like that.
 
X

Xeke

Banned
Why do you care that he pardons people? Many of those are bullshit drug convictions that people should be pardoned for. It's not like he's pardoning child molesters or murderers.

The US should do away with the fucking dumb pardons bullshit. Should be the newly elected president, at worst, who gets to pardon. To protect people against crooked presidents.
Click to expand...

Obama can pardon whoever the hell he wants whenever he wants, you don't have to wait till the end.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
JzeroT1437 said:
If he pardons Scooter Libby then he'll be marked as the new (stupid) Nixon. There's no way he's going out like that.
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I already have a higher opinion of Nixon than I do of Bush. Nixon ended the Vietnam war, opened up China, and created the EPA. Even with Watergate, Nixon was way better than Bush.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
grandjedi6 said:
Which is an incrediably misleading statisitic when you consider that Presidents give out most of their pardons at the very end, which Bush hasn't reached yet.
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That is one thing I was wondering . . . why are the pardons starting so early? Does this mean he has a ton of them and he's going to spread them out over the next 3 months?
 
G

Gaborn

Member
Well, to Bush's credit, except for the TOTALLY indefensible commutation of Libby his pardons have been relatively benign. Of course, that horrifically partisan and unfortunate commutation is bad enough to erase any nod of approval he might get (unless he gives a universal pardon for all non-violent drug offenders)
 
G

ggnoobIGN

Banned
Xeke said:
Why do you care that he pardons people? Many of those are bullshit drug convictions that people should be pardoned for. It's not like he's pardoning child molesters or murderers.


.
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Because either A) It's Bush or B) They hate the rule in general. More so A for most people I would say.
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
How does "it begin"?

He's already handed out 157 pardons.
To Bush's credit he's only pardoned about half of Clinton's and Reagan's pardon count.
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And 1/10th of Truman:
Truman: 1,913 in 93 months
Eisenhower: 1,110 in 96 months
JFK: 472 in 34 months
LBJ: 960 in 62 months
Nixon: 863 in 67 months
Ford: 382 in 29 months
Carter: 534 in 48 months
Reagan: 393 in 96 months
Bush: 74 in 48 months
Clinton: 396 in 96 months
Bush: 171 in 94 months
Which is an incrediably misleading statisitic when you consider that Presidents give out most of their pardons at the very end
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Except they don't? Only Clinton dropped a ton at the very end. (See the DOJ link above.)
 
G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
mre said:
No.



I'm not getting the backlash on this one. I mean, if he had pardoned Scooter Libby or the other politicians mentioned in the article I could understand that. But he hasn't (yet). Seems to me like many of these people were sentenced for crimes that GAF disagrees with, so where's the beef?
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Well I hate pardons in the first place so it doesn't matter much to me who he pardons.
 
T

Trurl

Banned
Guys, this is a cherished tradition. I suppose that GAF will soon call for the cancellation of the Thanksgiving turkey pardon.
 
Blackace

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
nyong said:
Watch him preemptively (heh) pardon himself and Cheney. I'm fairly certain he has the power to do so.
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Why would he do that? No one is able to arrest him
 
A

adamsappel

Member
onegoodlogan said:
George Bush does care about black person.
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I actually think this is a misjudgment of Bush. I think he does like black people. He has appointed a lot of blacks to his cabinet and administration. By that same measure, he likes women, too.

What George Bush doesn't like are poor people.

And as speculawyer said, we ain't seen nothin' yet as far as Bush's pardons go. Wait until January.
 
D

deadbeef

Member
JzeroT1437 said:
If he pardons Scooter Libby then he'll be marked as the new (stupid) Nixon. There's no way he's going out like that.
Click to expand...

More like Gerald Ford, amirite?

wikipedia said:
On September 8, 1974, Ford issued Proclamation 4311, which gave Nixon a full and unconditional pardon for any crimes he may have committed against the United States while President.
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S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Ela Hadrun said:
I need to know more about what this means.
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Calling his dealer or customers would cover it. There are some very rigorous "wire" laws.

That short list really does cover a huge amount of polluters and endangered species killers. :lol
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
You can't pardon a charge/conviction that hasn't been made yet, although Ford DID pardon Nixon before he was convicted for anything, which helped hand the presidency to Carter.
 
A

Aurean_Mentat

Member
I don't get it... Obama's in, the Dems will rule, and yet, whining still happens. Its quite apparent to Bush that no matter what he does, he's not going to be liked, and you want him to not pardon his friends, so the people that don't like him already can go back to hating him, and count down the days until Obama is in office

:lol :lol :lol :lol at that, and the liberal op ed pieces calling for Bush to resign now.
 
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