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Japanese P.M. publicly scolds Obama over Okinawa murder commited by former US Marine

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akira28

Member
Well, would you want a military person to be under local law enforcement? Especially in areas where say, women are given significantly less rights the men?

Also not sure where you get the impression that military people aren't battered over the head wrt potential security and diplomatic issues due ot negative behavior overseas.

But if it were the case, if American personnel were subject chiefly to local jurisdictions, you know the culture itself would demand everyone be under the most severely scrutinized best behavior when off base. And being off base would be a rare and controlled thing.

I don't have that impression.
 

Oare

Member
Doesn't Abe still completely support the US presence on Okinawa?

It's a calculated move.
The people of Okinawa want the US bases gone.
Abe (as well as the people who own the land the US army rents for its expatriates - at triple the market price) wants them to stay.
The Okinawan public opinion has made a clear choice, and expressed it multiple times in a row through vote.
The current governor, Takeshi Onaga (a dissident from Abe's party, the LDP), was elected solely on the promise he'd get the bases moved out of Okinawa.

His predecessor, Hirokazu Nakaima, who had full support of the LDP, was elected on the exact same promise.
During his stay as governor, he managed to pretend he was actually trying to do something about the issue, because the opposing party (DPJ) came to briefly rule the country (2009-2012). But when the LDP came back in full force with Abe at its head (2012), he backpedaled as a motherfucker until the end of his mandate (2014), and came to an agreement with Abe, deciding that one base, Futenma, would be moved from its current location in the comparatively populous city of Ginowan in order to be fused with Camp Schwab in Henoko, in the North of the island.
The people of Okinawa felt betrayed; despite the presence of Camp Schwab, Henoko remains a fairly beautiful coastal site, and the people naturally came to say that if the bases were to stay in Okinawa, there was no point in moving them there.
So Nakaima was quickly ousted in the following election.

But Abe insists. A deal is a deal (and rumor has it his friends have already secured the land in Henoko) so he wants the move.
Onaga is trying his best to strong-arm him, in order to reverse the Henoko agreement and put back on the table the idea of a move outside the prefecture. But in order to succeed, he'd need the understanding of the rest of the Japanese population.
To undermine his efforts, Abe has methodically jumped on each and every single opportunity to justify the move to Henoko. His core argument is: "the farther the US army is from the general population, the smaller the risks of incidents".

So whenever an incident occurs, he does a public stunt. His endgame is not to try and convince the Okinawan population. At this point, that's a lost cause. All he wants is to keep his voters in line in the rest of the country.
To the people who don't live in Okinawa and don't give much of a fuck about it, his rationale does appear to make sense: every time a crime is committed by an American in Okinawa- be it far from Futenma, like the rape incident that occurred in Naha a few months ago- Abe rushing to the mic and yelling "see? I told you, the priority is to move move those bases away from the population!" makes him appear like a man who cares. For free. And it makes the people of Okinawa look like fools for wanting more than the move to Henoko he offers.
 

Jintor

Member
It comes from the fact it's not very transparent to Japanese people. So the assumption is that they get off scott free (even though they don't). And they want Japanese justice in cases where Japanese people were involved.

Is general knowledge of the Japanese justice system more transparent? I suppose anything would be more transparent than a foreign country's military justice system.
 
It's pretty rich to have someone from Colombia lecturing on military immunity as well.

I talk about inmunity from our laws, considering our militray is subject to the US laws. If you cannot comprehend why someone would find that ironic, I don't know what else to tell you.

Here's an article on the specific rape case I was talking about.

Bear in mind, this is just one of many cases known to the general public, and the way the article is written it seems the woman didn't get a process because she was ignorant, which only adds insult to injury. Again, we can't really know how many cases go against US soldiers here because it's illegal to even identify them.

Here's an example of one such case.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Its not that hard to control your own people in another country if you give a damn.

Does America really give a damn is my question?

It was a civilian contractor. It's disgraceful but there's not much you can do to stop it if the predator has no record.

Or overall record in Okinawa is disgusting though. Part of it is plummeting military recruitment standards. Part of it is base culture.
 
Having been born and raised overseas because my dad was in the Air Force, I've seen my share of Americans doing dumb shit in foreign countries. But it was always a select few that fuck it up for everyone.

The military doesn't play when it comes to behaving yourself overseas. They're very strict, even with the military families. If one of your defendants fuck up, they get sent back to the States, but you have to stay. Even if one of your kids fuck up, they'll ship them back. And I think it depends on the case when it comes to being prosecuted by local authorities or the military.

In Germany, I remember there was a case of American kids who were dropping rocks onto cars driving through the autobahn. They killed at least one driver and was prosecuted by Germans. I'll have to find that story...

I also remember several MPs on Lakenheath were busted because they were running drugs on base. They got into a LOT of trouble for that.

But it's impossible to control everyones actions. Plus not everyone joining the military are the coldest beers in the fridge unfortunately.
 

MisterHero

Super Member
Having been born and raised overseas because my dad was in the Air Force, I've seen my share of Americans doing dumb shit in foreign countries. But it was always a select few that fuck it up for everyone.

The military doesn't play when it comes to behaving yourself overseas. They're very strict, even with the military families. If one of your defendants fuck up, they get sent back to the States, but you have to stay. Even if one of your kids fuck up, they'll ship them back. And I think it depends on the case when it comes to being prosecuted by local authorities or the military.

In Germany, I remember there was a case of American kids who were dropping rocks onto cars driving through the autobahn. They killed at least one driver and was prosecuted by Germans. I'll have to find that story...

I also remember several MPs on Lakenheath were busted because they were running drugs on base. They got into a LOT of trouble for that.

But it's impossible to control everyones actions. Plus not everyone joining the military are the coldest beers in the fridge unfortunately.
There was this one commercial that always played on base TV (and yes, in Okinawa).

"Run John it's the Japanese police!"

So yeah I could be remembering wrong but Japanese law is entitled to keep you (or dependents) if you screw up.
 
There was this one commercial that always played on base TV (and yes, in Okinawa).

"Run John it's the Japanese police!"

So yeah I could be remembering wrong but Japanese law is entitled to keep you (or dependents) if you screw up.
I need to ask my dad how it worked. They probably had it where if you got in trouble off base, the local authorities deal with you. If you mess up on base, the military deals with you. And it may vary from country to country.
 

Takuan

Member
Is this really about the murder or more about just getting a US President to apologize for something because Hiroshima/Nagasaki aren't on the table?
 

Aureon

Please do not let me serve on a jury. I am actually a crazy person.
Maybe the Japanese should remember how many Chinese woman they raped and mutilated - I guess they forgot after the bombs were dropped. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Japanese have been quick to attack the US for Obamas visit but have they apologized to the Chinese men and woman they murdered in the millions since 1938 - 1945? Maybe they forgot their kamikaze attacks in Okinawa killing upwards of 5-12k US soldiers.

I feel sorry for the woman and children involved on both sides of this war or any war but war has never been pretty. I think we as people who are not involved think to forget this.

Yay whataboutism.
We're not talking apology trading for long past crimes. We're talking last month. It's kind of different.
 

kingslunk

Member
Well, our country dropped fucking bombs on their innocent people. I suppose a surprise confrontation is fair enough.

First this has nothing to do with the article.

Second do you know how many people would've died on both sides if we didn't drop those two bombs? Not only that but it was retaliation for the previous attack.

Fucking hate dumb posts like this. Yes it's a travesty innocents died. But it's a fraction of the cost if we didn't. Not only that but Japan was allied with fucking nazi Germany. The sympathy for Japan in that time is ridiculous.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Is this really about the murder or more about just getting a US President to apologize for something because Hiroshima/Nagasaki aren't on the table?


1. It's a long running item of tension and it keeps happening
2. Abe is a nationalist and xenophobe trying to look strong
3. A bit of what you said
4. The vastly more reasonable Japanese ambassador to the U.S. Had a much more nuanced view on both atrocities
 

Crosseyes

Banned
It comes from the fact it's not very transparent to Japanese people. So the assumption is that they get off scott free (even though they don't). And they want Japanese justice in cases where Japanese people were involved.
Plus it could be more just the local population being upset that the U.S. military is bringing over individuals from just a plain more violent culture that commit the crimes to begin with at all.
 

decaf

Member
Only when Japan acknowledges the atrocities they committed against the Chinese during the Second World War can they throw stones.
 

Macrotus

Member
This was the most recent thread about this subject, so I'm posting it here.

This tweet basically says, Americans bowing under the blazing sun along route 58.
There are many good people too.
https://twitter.com/hajiuson_0118/status/736377143391715328

I haven't seen this being covered on the news in Japan. (at least in Tokyo)
If it weren't for this tweet, I wouldn't have known about this. (thank you internet)
I really hate the media here some times.
 
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