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[ElBoxyBrown]

I've not seen this version and I haven't seen the old one in years so my memory is fuzzy but isn't her

Spoiler

consciousness inhabiting another, manufactured body?

If that is the case how is the argument of white washing even relevant? Isn't that entirely the point?

Spoiler

It's not her original body and hence could literally be any appearance?

Then why

Spoiler

did the body have to be a white women?

 

[Garrett Hawke]

using SJW unironically

using Japan as a pinnacle of understanding race relations

whew op!

 

[Laieon]

The Hunger Games movies are based on a completely different novel though. Unless you're talking about the novels ripping of BR, but in that case a lot of movies/books have ripped off GitS too, and a ton other Japanese media.

You can bet that if the Hunger Games novels didn't exist someone would have eventually bought the rights for an American adaptation of Battle Royale.

One could make the argument that Battle Royale would have never existed without The Most Dangerous Game, and I'm sure there's even an earlier example. I like Battle Royale more than the Hunger Games, but it definitely wasn't the first example of "people killing each other for sport".

 

[wetwired]

Then why

Spoiler

did the body have to be a white women?

It doesn't but why does it have to be asian? or female for that matter?

EDIT> Recommented with spoiler tags

 

[TheWraith]

Most fascinating part:



The Japanese apparently have a much, much, much more different take on identity politics than Asian Americans or any cyber Social Justice Warrior can ever dream of

Huh? This seems perfectly acceptable, wouldn't you want a Scandinavian role be played by an actual Scandinavian instead of an American for example?

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

It doesn't but why does it have to be asian? or female for that matter?

That is a good question. It's too bad the movie decided to use it to justify the casting. It didn't take the opportunity to explore identity politics.

Edit: Put a spoiler in my post.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

sounds like something a Cyber Social Justice Warrior would say

I need this in my bio somewhere

 

[Trickster]

using SJW unironically

using Japan as a pinnacle of understanding race relations

whew op!

His post history paints a pretty clear picture

 

[Ratrat]

Its just barely better than Moonlight!

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Its just barely better than Moonlight!

That Kong poster is amazing.

 

[Laieon]

Its just barely better than Moonlight!

At least Japan knows Lalaland truly deserved the win.

 

[CrunchyB]

As a Dutchman every now and then we get represented in Hollywood films by Germans or even Russians. I'd much rather an American/Canadian like Mike Myers mockingly impersonatesh ush wish a bad akshent, then be grossly misrepresented by people who are kinda blond and ethnic like us. Like the second feels more racist than the first. At least if they cast Scarlet Johansson you know they put in money and therefore effort into your property so that's better than some generic Asian.

...

 

[Chuckie]

You're late mate!

You know what is worst than getting a Mexican to play Abe?

Getting an American to play a Dutch girl!

And guess who was willing to do just that....

 

[Saya]

At least if they cast Scarlet Johansson you know they put in money and therefore effort into your property so that's better than some generic Asian.

Wait what?

 

[Ratrat]

I understand the sentiment. As a Dutchman every now and then we get represented in Hollywood films by Germans or even Russians. I'd much rather an American/Canadian like Mike Myers mockingly impersonatesh ush wish a bad akshent, then be grossly misrepresented by people who are kinda blond and ethnic like us. Like the second feels more racist than the first. At least if they cast Scarlet Johansson you know they put in money and therefore effort into your property so that's better than some generic Asian.

It depends. For Memoirs of a Geisha they are all speaking in English and its based on a stupid American novel so no one should care. But otherwise, it would look strange if they cast a random Asian actress and fed her awkward Japanese dialogue.

On that note, I love that Quentin Tarantino actually changed Oren Ishi's backstory when he cast Lucy Liu for Kill Bill. Most directors wouldn't give a shit.

 

[CrunchyB]

You're late mate!

Huh, how did I miss your post? I even searched for the title in the thread :/

 

[TatteredHat]

And guess who was willing to do just that....

Please no.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Since the movie only debuted in Japan this past weekend, reactions have been slim in trickling in, but some preliminary reactions:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/japanese-fans-react-ghost-shell-992255

Most fascinating part:



The Japanese apparently have a much, much, much more different take on identity politics than Asian Americans or any cyber Social Justice Warrior can ever dream of

Basically a repeat of many of the reactions here.

 

[Flipyap]

sounds like something a Cyber Social Justice Warrior would say

When you really think about it, Ghost in the Shell was always about a bunch of Cyber Social Justice Warriors.

 

[Chuckie]

Huh, how did I miss your post? I even searched for the title in the thread :/

It's ok though. The people should know Scarjo is stealing all the roles!

 

[Desmond]

I am trying to think what would have happened if they'd have cast a Chinese or Korean actress like what was done with Memoirs of a Geisha. Would it be no different to the castings of George Lazenby or Pierce Brosnan as Bond?

 

[Theecliff]

It doesn't but why does it have to be asian? or female for that matter?

it's an adaptation of a story that's set in japan and the character was originally japanese. you're right in that the character could have been anyone - and that would have probably been the smarter way to go about the adaptation - but they chose to specifically use the original character in the original setting. when asian american actors are seriously unrepresented in the western film industry - through either not giving enough specific roles or whitewashing roles elsewhere - a film like this is literally the perfect opportunity to cast correctly. instead they went with scarlett johansson, of which the biggest defence over an asian american actress was that they needed to cast a big star to sell the film
- which has turned out to be a load of shit because it's bombed spectacularly. and seeing as you haven't seen the new film yet - without spoiling too much - it basically internalises this whole argument into the main plot and comes across totally tone deaf as a result. hence the controversy.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

We'd be wishing some studio would pick it up. GITS is hugely popular.....in its niche. Making a niche film with no bankable name to sell it to the general public would have been difficult. Not impossible I guess, but probably not with the budget it got. It's kind of neither here nor there I guess now that it has tanked at the BO.

Yeah, I could see that happening.
However, I meant more in regards to fan reactions. Wouldn't it then be criticized for just being another example of Asians only getting lead roles when they are type-cast as sexy/cool martial artists? Of course, I don't think the controversy would hit the levels that Scarlett getting casted created, but it seems like it would be a valid complaint considering its another of the core issues with asian-american representation in Hollywood. I'm probably just over-thinking the issue I guess.

 

[Volimar]

It's ok though. The people should know Scarjo is stealing all the roles!

Spoiler

Her father is Dutch.

Close enough?

 

[Garrett Hawke]

His post history paints a pretty clear picture

Sad!

That Kong poster is amazing.

It is, wtf

 

[deadscreensky]

That is a good question. It's too bad the movie decided to use it to justify the casting. It didn't take the opportunity to explore identity politics.

Edit: Put a spoiler in my post.

I'm going to disagree that it didn't take the opportunity to do that. They clearly and blatantly tried to do that. The problem is they did it poorly and with no real depth, just like with nearly everything else in the movie, so it has no genuine impact or effect on the viewer.

As a sort of aside, the Major in this film is a truly bizarre take on the character; I have no idea what they were going for. None of the traditional qualities of the character that people like (her professionalism, her intelligence, her confidence, her mysteriousness, in some ways even her sexy robot thing) are present, or at best they are severely and deliberately undercut. I understand shifting a character around, like how Oshii stripped out the Major's humor and sensuality because he disagreed with the manga's statements on 'complex robots', but this Major is just an entirely new character with none of the same appeal in any dimension.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

Spoiler

Her father is Dutch.

Close enough?

if Denmark is in the Netherlands, sure. but it's not.

 

[wetwired]

That is a good question. It's too bad the movie decided to use it to justify the casting. It didn't take the opportunity to explore identity politics.

Edit: Put a spoiler in my post.

Haven't not seen the movie I can't say how much they touched on identity politics, but from my perspective I worked on a cyberpunk video game which the inherent premise of the game was bodies were disposable and consciousness were interchangeable between sex and race. It wasn't really a character driven game so we didn't really dig into the premise of what truly is an identity if bodies are interchangeable but there's different room for it on film or a more character driven game.

I may ramble here but I guess my point is, even disregarding the

Spoiler

body/consciousness

point I made above is there something inherent in her character that dictates she must be Asian?

I'm not attached to GITS in the slightest but it's an interesting social construct where someone like Superman is iconic and recognizable character associated as muscle bound Caucasian, black and blue eyes. There'd likely be a fairly big uproar (probably from myself included) if he was depicted on film as anything else.

Perry White is recast as black in Man of Steel? no big deal, his race isn't associated with his character.

Is Scarlett Johanson's character inherently Asian? to the point her

Spoiler

manufactured body

must be too?

For some, perhaps she is as iconicly Asian as Superman is Caucasian but I don't think she is globally or at least in the US.

Was there this much controversy with the 2013 remake of Old Boy with Josh Brolin? should their have been?

 

[Ratrat]

I am trying to think what would have happened if they'd have cast a Chinese or Korean actress like what was done with Memoirs of a Geisha. Would it be no different to the castings of George Lazenby or Pierce Brosnan as Bond?

Its not even unusual. Look at the Tekken or Blood: The Last Vampire movies. Even Star Trek.

 

[ronaldthump]

I remember hearing the Japanese weren't too happy a few years ago, when that Geisha movie came out and the geisha was played by a Chinese actress.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/mar/02/zoe-saldana-nina-simone-black-makeup-film-trailer

its not just asians.

Zoe Saldana copped a lot of heat for taking the role meant for a black actress.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Nowhere in the movie does it say it takes place in Japan, so that one dude's opinion on Asians pretending to be Japanese is irrelevant.

 

[DarthMasta]

Asians in countries where there is local movie production aren't going to need to look up to a US movie to see themselves on screen. Sucks for Asian Americans, but it is what it is...

 

[Volimar]

if Denmark is in the Netherlands, sure. but it's not.

Oh man I should not have trusted my instincts. I could have sworn he was from the Netherlands. My bad. My fault for not double checking. I only even knew that because I got in an argument with my brother who swore she was from South Africa.

 

[Trokil]

instead they went with scarlett johansson, of which the biggest defence over an asian american actress was that they needed to cast a big star to sell the film
- which has turned out to be a load of shit because it's bombed spectacularly.

Well, the numbers just show, that argument is total rubbish. Scarlett has the star power to keep a niche product selling internationally which a movie like Power Rangers has not. That is also why Ghost made 2-3 times the money Power Rangers did on the international market in the first week alone. So it is actually true, you need somebody to sell the product and everything people made up, is just not supported by facts or numbers.

Casting Scarlett may be the only things they made right, else it would have probably bombed as hard as Power Rangers did.

Nowhere in the movie does it say it takes place in Japan, so that one dude's opinion on Asians pretending to be Japanese is irrelevant.

So anyone could play the Major?

 

[Ratrat]

Nowhere in the movie does it say it takes place in Japan, so that one dude's opinion on Asians pretending to be Japanese is irrelevant.

Why is there Japanese everywhere? Roads, signs, everything.

 

[Desmond]

Why is there Japanese everywhere? Roads, signs, everything.

There's quite a bit of Hangul in the film too afaik

 

[SomedayTheFire]

Oh man I should not have trusted my instincts. I could have sworn he was from the Netherlands. My bad. My fault for not double checking. I only even knew that because I got in an argument with my brother who swore she was from South Africa.

honestly when I read your post I was like "yeah, yeah" but something was bugging me and I had to check.

Well, the numbers just show, that argument is total rubbish. Scarlett has the star power to keep a niche product selling internationally which a movie like Power Rangers has not. That is also why Ghost made 3 times the money Power Rangers did on the international market in the first week alone. So it is actually true, you need somebody to sell the product and everything people made up, is just not supported by facts or numbers.

Casting Scarlett may be the only things they made right, else it would have bombed as hard as Power Rangers did probably.



So anyone could play the Major?

was about to cape for power rangers with regards to budget till i realised they nearly cost the same amount

 

[Chuckie]

Spoiler

Her father is Dutch.

Close enough?

Ah yes, Copenhagen...beautiful capital of the Netherlands.

 

[Ratrat]

There's quite a bit of Hangul in the film too afaik

There is also Chinese and English. But most of the stuff on roads and city signs are Japanese.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

So anyone could play the Major?

Technically yes. Any Asian actress would have been fine.

Why is there Japanese everywhere? Roads, signs, everything.

The setting was a melting pot of other cultures.

 

[Volimar]

Ah yes, Copenhagen...beautiful capital of the Netherlands.

 

[timberger]

Not surprised Japanese viewers wouldn't be too bothered. I mean, they've already seen Goku and Kenshiro played by white people, so this probably seems tame in comparison.

lol at the "what else can you expect from Hollywood?" line regarding how dumbed down the plot was though.

 

[Tacitus_]

Huh? This seems perfectly acceptable, wouldn't you want a Scandinavian role be played by an actual Scandinavian instead of an American for example?

Not particularly. About as much as I'd want them casting an ex-plumber to play one.

 

[Skittles]

Well, the numbers just show, that argument is total rubbish. Scarlett has the star power to keep a niche product selling internationally which a movie like Power Rangers has not. That is also why Ghost made 2-3 times the money Power Rangers did on the international market in the first week alone. So it is actually true, you need somebody to sell the product and everything people made up, is just not supported by facts or numbers.

Casting Scarlett may be the only things they made right, else it would have probably bombed as hard as Power Rangers did.



So anyone could play the Major?

This one bomb bombed slightly less than this other bomb. So it somehow completely negates the argument that star power no longer sells movies

 

[Desmond]

Not surprised Japanese viewers wouldn't be too bothered. I mean, they've already seen Goku and Kenshiro played by white people, so this probably seems tame in comparison.

lol at the "what else can you expect from Hollywood?" line regarding how dumbed down the plot was though.

If anything, Goku should be Chinese, or an extraterrestrial.

 

[Trokil]

Huh? This seems perfectly acceptable, wouldn't you want a Scandinavian role be played by an actual Scandinavian instead of an American for example?

And nobody cared

 

[Ratrat]

If anything, Goku should be Chinese, or an extraterrestrial.

I thought he was a monkey.

 

[Volimar]

Not surprised Japanese viewers wouldn't be too bothered. I mean, they've already seen Goku and Kenshiro played by white people, so this probably seems tame in comparison.

lol at the "what else can you expect from Hollywood?" line regarding how dumbed down the plot was though.

I have to imagine that it's terrible Karma to remind people that the Dragonball movie exists.

And nobody cared

That's because they all just went and watched the superior version of the film with Noomi Rapace.

 

[Trokil]

This one bomb bombed slightly less than this other bomb. So it somehow completely negates the argument that star power no longer sells movies

Slightly? Have you seen the numbers on the international market? Ghost will probably make more than twice of the money Power Rangers did and that with a very bad result in the US.

That is some serious star power.

 

[Jyester]

I imagine some Japanese people may be thrilled that the live adaptation of a major Japanese property features a big Hollywood actress.

For the American market, it would have been great if she was portrayed by an Asian actress. I would've liked to see a Japanese lead.

Personally, I often cringe when movies mix up their nationalities. I have no desire to watch Memoires of a Geisha, being an English voiced historical epic with Chinese leads. I don't know if they had any desire to sell the movie in Japan, but the casting shows a fundamental lack of understanding of Japanese culture (Spielberg just shot himself in the foot, etc.).