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LTTP: Detroit: Become NPC - SPOILERS

Boss Mog

Member
[Very MINOR SPOILERS Ahead]

So I'm not a big fan of David Cage games mostly because they basically have no gameplay or shit gameplay at best, but Detroit had really impressive graphics and a story that could be interesting so I decided to give it a go since it was free and stick with it until the end.

I was expecting a game that was going to make you think and reflect on the concept of AI being considered a sentient life form. Something along the lines of what Nier Automata did (fantastic game btw, so go play it if you haven't). But that's not the case at all. The game flat-out tells you that they are sentient and it does this because the game really isn't about AI or androids at all. It's about making you feel bad for US slavery.

The androids clearly represent black people in the US during slavery and segregation. They are slaves that do all the work, there's segregation where the androids have to stand at the back of the bus (there's zero subtlety whatsoever).

All the white male humans in the game are evil and are "racist" towards androids. The somewhat exception being Hank the detective that is forced to partner up with Connor, though Hank is heavily flawed. He's suicidal and a booze hound and he hates androids too, though throughout the game he realizes "they're just like us" if you make the "right" choices anyway. So lets go through the other white males in the game:

Todd: The drug addict father who beats his little daughter Alice that Kara then rescues.

Zlatko: A guy who pretends to want to help Kara and Alice but ends up wanting to torture and experiment on them. Luckily Zlatko's big strong black android Luther is there to save the two.

Gavin: A detective that is an antagonist of Hank's and loathes androids to the point where he's waiting for any excuse to kill Connor (and eventually tries). He's like a super racist KKK member equivalent cliché.

Agent Perkins: An FBI agent who gets assigned to the deviant android case that Hank and Connor are working after it blows up and becomes headline news. He doesn't hate androids like Gavin, but this is because he clearly doesn't consider them as people, and scoff's that Connor is even allowed to investigate on the case, he just wants to put an end to the tin cans running around saying they're people. He's a more subtle "racist", but yet still very eager to kill Markus if he gets the chance.

Leo: The son of Carl, the old man Markus takes care of at the beginning when he's still a "slave". He's also a drug addict and a thief, a real lowlife who only shows up to his dad's house when he needs money.

In contrast to this all the black humans in the game are good. Rose epitomizes this the most and she's the one that actually helps Chloe and Alice and other androids cross over into Canada which in the game is a safe haven for androids and is revered much like in real life by US SJWs and the like who always say they're gonna move there because it's so much better.

So during the story Markus becomes the de facto leader of the android uprising and you have to choose if you're going to do peaceful marches and speeches like MLK Jr or be more Black Panther style aggressive. One thing that I found hilarious is when Markus makes a list of demands for androids he wants the end of segregation but you can also choose to say that you want the US to give up a state that's only for androids, a sort of segregated safe space.

Out of the three protagonists Kara, Connor and Markus, Markus' arc which is about the android uprising is actually the least interesting and the most predictable despite the choices you have to make and at no time does it really make you reflect. Kara's arc is a tad more interesting but it's still a simple story of survival and escaping to the holy land of Canada despite many possible twists and turns. The most interesting arc is Connor's by far. He's actually the only character that is constantly asking questions about androids and if there's a chance they could be "alive" and questioning his own existence. The decisions you make with him have the biggest impact on the story as a whole. So while Markus is kind of made out to be the main hero since he's the leader of the android rebellion, he is the one on the cover after all, he's actually the least integral character.

The game felt very preachy at times and full of "racist" clichés. There's a lot of virtue signaling on display and so SJWs will certainly approve. Towards the end the "racist" humans are even turned in to "nazis" as androids are rounded up and put in death camps where they are dismantled.

That being said it wasn't a bad game. it had it's moments and probably has the best implementation of QTEs in a game; they can have serious consequences if you fail them. There are no do overs in Detroit (except if you exit the game and reload from a previous checkpoint of course) every decision you make, every action you take or don't take can have a huge impact on the story. QTEs are a part of that and failing some of them can mean death for certain characters. There's entire sections of the game and locales that you may never see depending on your choices. The only parts the drag it down are the typical David Cage "gamplay" moments where you're forced to do overly complicated controller motions in order to accomplish simple tasks that would only require a button push in other games or that would just happen organically without any input.

Surprisingly I was able to get the best ending (with everybody alive) on my first playthrough while making all my own decisions how I would if I were really in the character's shoes, instead of doing what I think the game would want me to do.

One last funny thing I wanted to point out is when Markus makes his first speech on TV he disguises himself by removing his skin and he actually looks like an NPC with grey face:

frame_0004.jpg
 
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Hulk_Smash

Banned
Hmmm... been thinking about picking this up. Not so sure now. Does anyone else concur that this is what the game’s theme is all about?
 

Boss Mog

Member
Hmmm... been thinking about picking this up. Not so sure now. Does anyone else concur that this is what the game’s theme is all about?
You don't have PS+? It's free this month if you do. Though it's pretty cheap on the Store when it's on sale, usually like 8 bucks and they give you Heavy Rain free with it.
 

nowhat

Member
This, while having other writers too (first in a Quantic Dream game, I think?), is decidedly a David Cage game. Which means it's about as subtle as a sledgehammer when it comes to analogies. Personally, I was mostly able to gloss over most of it, although some of the bits can be really cringey, especially the good endings.

To the games credit though, there really is a ton of branching in the story depending on your choices. Some very minor, yes, but some also very major. And I quite enjoyed the paths where things go really south. Perhaps I have some sadistic tendencies I wasn't aware of.
 

Jasagna

Neo Member
My wife and I loved playing this game (each playing a chapter and trading off). Perhaps the best looking game of this gen in many ways. The branching paths really made for some tense "oh shit what I have done?!?!?" moments. Plus it's got Clancy Brown, whom I really enjoy as an actor.
It's very influenced by I, Robot and Blade Runner (which are good things in my book).
 
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EverydayBeast

thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Hats off for putting Detroit Become Human, a masterpiece, on PS+ that's what it is a masterpiece.
 

Aurelian

my friends call me "Cunty"
Yeah, it's about as subtle as an atomic bomb, but to some degree I like the game for that. It's not trying to be wishy-washy or pretend that you can't draw certain parallels. Nuance would be nicer, but if you're going to be blunt...
 

Jasagna

Neo Member
Not sure the majority of the gamer audience responds well to subtle story beats, so I agree with subtle as a sledgehammer approach.
 

AgentP

Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
Hmmm... been thinking about picking this up. Not so sure now. Does anyone else concur that this is what the game’s theme is all about?

Depends, are you a snowflake conservative? No? Just play the game and enjoy it without the bias and analysis. I thought it was very good.
 

manfestival

Member
Got it for free for PS+ and loved playing it. I can see some of these parallels. There were some eyeroll things but that is very David Cage despite him having less to do with this game than previous titles.
I gave up on beyond two souls cause it was a garbage game all around but I love Heavy Rain and Detroit. Gonna start a second playthrough once I get through more of my backlog.
I tried playing the game as close to canon of a storyline as I would guess. I think I got pretty close with the exception of a big mistake I made at the end(L O L).
 

Lokimaru

Member
Got it for free for PS+ and loved playing it. I can see some of these parallels. There were some eyeroll things but that is very David Cage despite him having less to do with this game than previous titles.
I gave up on beyond two souls cause it was a garbage game all around but I love Heavy Rain and Detroit. Gonna start a second playthrough once I get through more of my backlog.
I tried playing the game as close to canon of a storyline as I would guess. I think I got pretty close with the exception of a big mistake I made at the end(L O L).

Aint that how it always is? Had the same thing happen with Until Dawn.
 

bucyou

Member
Depends, are you a snowflake conservative? No? Just play the game and enjoy it without the bias and analysis. I thought it was very good.

jeez, this guy with the low iq shitpost.

Did you read anything after the first response, or did your outrage smash the reply button before taking the 10 seconds to read the replies after and see not only other posters confirming the OP's plot description, but the very person you replied at(hulk)stating he was going off to try out the game?
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
It kinda annoys me the way that people fixate on Black history in America like its the only instance of historical injustice that the game references. I mean seriously, one ending is pointedly a holocaust scenario.

Its also not an overly preachy game. The issues it deals with are pretty standard humanist tropes, familiar from countless other SF stories. That the trials facing our android protagonists are similar to those faced by subjugated peoples and groups kinda comes with the territory, quite honestly I'd love to hear from the people bemoaning its lack of "subtlety", what they'd like to see the plotlines replaced with.

Because I'd bet it'd either be equally trope-y or just trying to force a certain ideoological point-of-view down the player's throats.
 

Hulk_Smash

Banned
Depends, are you a snowflake conservative? No? Just play the game and enjoy it without the bias and analysis. I thought it was very good.

I played the demo and liked it a lot. I didn’t catch any of the issues OP was bringing up and I would be disappointed if it was some kind of bait and switch with a bunch of tacked on SJW virtue signaling.

And no I’m not a snowflake conservative whatever the hell that means.
 
I have the game downloaded from the PSN store, installed and ready to go.. (Sucks though because I bought the hard copy from craigslist for $8 a week before it was a free offer on PS + :(, oh well it's just eight bucks)

I played the demo and loved it, most game demos don't sell me on games much, but the demo for this is nice short and sweet. That's the thing with these type of games (and not just David Cage games) I go in, not expecting Oscar nominee/winner writers, directors making these, maybe cable TV series writers at best. So I am willing to give the tropes and cliche's a bit of a break and try to just enjoy what is being offered as a story and a game.
 
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LegendOfKage

Gold Member
[Very MINOR SPOILERS Ahead]

Those are some pretty big spoilers. Nothing about that is very minor, or even "medium sized." You really should change that text to accurately describe the fact that you're going to talk in great detail about major revelations made halfway into and even at the end of the game.

If you're concerned about race and gender, you also missed two white males that play a major role in the game's events.
You just brushed over Carl, but without him teaching Markus to stand up for himself in the first place, he would never have started the revolution. Also, regarding the border scene, a white male is the one to decide to let them into the country, which ONLY happens if the android's protest wasn't violent. There are a lot of aspects of the game where the player is left to decide right and wrong, but that's one of the few times the game itself takes a stand and says "this is not the way to get people to support your cause." You can still go down that path, but you can't do so without sacrificing public opinion, and getting what most would definitely consider a "bad ending."

Rose's son (who is black, for those who haven't played the game) also starts out pretty "bad" and he can definitely stay that way if you do or say the wrong things, same as Hank. The game is about people that just about all of society doesn't consider human, so it makes sense that most of the humans would be "bad" before being properly confronted with their hypocrisy, which is what racism really comes down to anyway.

I didn't play the game looking for any particular political or social movement message, though, and just experienced the story they wanted to tell. I thought it was really good.
 
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Cattlyst

Member
Yeah OP's points are pretty much spot on. There's even some less than subtle jabs at Trump and Clinton (read through the digital magazines dotted throughout the game). That said, I actually really enjoyed my first playthrough. One point though - not all black characters are 'pro-android.' Depending on how certain scenes play out, Rose's son doesn't hide his disdain for androids at all. In my opinion it's well worth a look, and the visuals are staggeringly good in places.
 

Boss Mog

Member
Yeah OP's points are pretty much spot on. There's even some less than subtle jabs at Trump and Clinton (read through the digital magazines dotted throughout the game). That said, I actually really enjoyed my first playthrough. One point though - not all black characters are 'pro-android.' Depending on how certain scenes play out, Rose's son doesn't hide his disdain for androids at all. In my opinion it's well worth a look, and the visuals are staggeringly good in places.
Rose's son doesn't hate androids though. He just didn't want his mom risking her life to help them because he thought there was nothing to gain and everything to lose by doing so, there's a big difference. And in the end he even admits he was wrong to think that way.

Those are some pretty big spoilers. Nothing about that is very minor, or even "medium sized." You really should change that text to accurately describe the fact that you're going to talk in great detail about major revelations made halfway into and even at the end of the game.

If you're concerned about race and gender, you also missed two white males that play a major role in the game's events.
You just brushed over Carl, but without him teaching Markus to stand up for himself in the first place, he would never have started the revolution. Also, regarding the border scene, a white male is the one to decide to let them into the country, which ONLY happens if the android's protest wasn't violent. There are a lot of aspects of the game where the player is left to decide right and wrong, but that's one of the few times the game itself takes a stand and says "this is not the way to get people to support your cause." You can still go down that path, but you can't do so without sacrificing public opinion, and getting what most would definitely consider a "bad ending."

Rose's son (who is black, for those who haven't played the game) also starts out pretty "bad" and he can definitely stay that way if you do or say the wrong things, same as Hank. The game is about people that just about all of society doesn't consider human, so it makes sense that most of the humans would be "bad" before being properly confronted with their hypocrisy, which is what racism really comes down to anyway.

I didn't play the game looking for any particular political or social movement message, though, and just experienced the story they wanted to tell. I thought it was really good.

They are not that big, because they're mostly just the main themes of the game and any particulars are near the beginning of the game. Also it's hard to spoil a game where choices and actions can cause such huge variances in the story.

As for Carl he was barely present in my playthrough and he's in a wheelchair. He has victim status., so I wouldn't bunch him together with the other white males who have able-body privilege. As for the border guard you describe he's a very minor character that I never even encountered at all because of my choices. And I wasn't being super literal, just outlining that there was a clear pattern of portraying white men as evil throughout the game. It's like the Gillette ad, there were 52 instances of "bad male behavior" in it an 50 were committed by white men which isn't reflective of reality at all.

I didn't go in looking for any particular political or social movement message either, it was just shoved in my face not very subtly. The game didn't make me think about AI and androids like I feel it could have by asking some tougher questions. Markus never questions how his demands would affect humans. If androids worked for equal pay to humans, who would hire a human when androids don't get tired, don't make mistakes, etc... Todd was a lowlife druggie because androids took his job and it all went downhill from there for him. Androids could also easily outnumber humans as they can make themselves much faster than humans reproduce and grow up. The game never tries to explain how a peaceful cohabitation with androids afforded equal rights could be achieved without having devastating effects on humans. Also the sentient androids are constantly afraid of death but the truth is they can almost always be repaired and reactivated so it makes little sense. If anything the game made me feel they were a clear and present threat.
 
Has anyone else noticed that David Cage seems to have a thing for short hair on girls? All the main female characters in Heavy Rain, Beyond Two Souls, and Detroit have crop cuts.
 

LegendOfKage

Gold Member
Referring to the spoilers:

They are not that big, because they're mostly just the main themes of the game and any particulars are near the beginning of the game. Also it's hard to spoil a game where choices and actions can cause such huge variances in the story.

You said:

Zlatko: A guy who pretends to want to help Chloe and Alice but ends up wanting to torture and experiment on them. Luckily Zlatko's big strong black android Luther is there to save the two.

Gavin: A detective that is an antagonist of Hank's and loathes androids to the point where he's waiting for any excuse to kill Connor (and eventually tries). He's like a super racist KKK member equivalent cliché.

These things happen at least a third into the game, if not over halfway into the game, and are major spoilers for anyone who plays these scenes.
 
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Boss Mog

Member
When I decided to write about this game for my games of the year list from 2018 it was hard, because there's a lot to like and dislike about it.

What I basically concluded was Connor's stuff is cool, but Marcus and Kara "aren't the droids you're looking for."

Btw, nice thread title
Thanks. I totally agree with you; a lot to like and a lot to dislike and Connor's arc is the only really interesting one. Overall I'm still glad I played the game though.
 

Silent Duck

Member
Thanks. I totally agree with you; a lot to like and a lot to dislike and Connor's arc is the only really interesting one. Overall I'm still glad I played the game though.
I liked the Connor stuff too.

I had a not so good ending with Kara. Since it was the last time I played it, it is the one thing I immediately remember about the game.
As Kara and the kid are making their way to Canada by boat, they are ambushed. Bullets flying everywhere as Kara is trying to push the boat to shore because the engine got destroyed by gunfire.

They finally make it to shore, only for Kara to discover the kid was riddled with bullets. The kid starts to permanently shut down in Kara’s arms as Kara yells for help but is ignored by passing cars.

The kid dies. Kara loses the last thing she valued in her life and chooses to commit suicide by overloading her internal circuits.

Shortly after, a car pulls up, the driver sees a woman and child sitting by the river bank and tries to offer assistance. But finds both Kara and the kid are beyond repair. :pie_frowning:

Oh well, at least I got them to Canada.:pie_unamused:
 

G-Bus

Banned
So happy this came to ps+ because I've never had an interest in these types of games.

Really enjoyed it to my own surprise. Made a few decisions along the way I regretted because it wasn't clear to me what direction Connor would go with the dialogue. I'll chalk that up to being stoned. Some of the chases and action parts were intense and definitely had me on the edge of the couch at times. This game really sucked me in.

Since Heavy Rain was included I think I'll give that a go as well.

Deiniftely will pay attention to these games from now on and look forward to the next Quantic Dreams game assuming they keep doing them.
 

AV

We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
Hmmm... been thinking about picking this up. Not so sure now. Does anyone else concur that this is what the game’s theme is all about?

This games drives its messages home with the subtlety of a sledgehammer.
 
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