-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Microsoft told digital foundry that the Series X is their mid-gen refresh (DF direct Weekly #116)
PropellerEar
Member
Unless it's sponsored content, then they apologize for the frame rate for 15 minutes, and point to another game performing even worse.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
But you can use that for any game really. Console gamers would also love to play Spider Man 2's RT mode in 60 FPS, they would also love to play Forza Horizon 5 in 120 FPS in the Quality mode. But it's pushing beyond the means of the current console harwdare those games are on and if there's a mid-gen refresh, the target will change again. Consoles aren't PCs and I don't think or want there to be iterative upgrades every 2 years for them.
If anyone wants that, they already have the PC space to do that in.
Right but that's not a mid-gen refresh, those are the specs and consoles available since day 1 and it has been made extremely clear what the intended target audience is for an S compared to an X. If someone accidentally bought S and then feigns disappointment that the games on that console don't look like the X, that's on them. And as for the maximizing, again that's specs and development tools the devs have from day 1. It's not something introduced to them 3 ~ 4 years later.
I don't know what to say lol, anything I say will get another out of context Harvey gif, in terms of capabilities the one X *is* capable, but because of its nature as a mid-gen refresh to a much worse console, it got shortchanged.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
They seem to be all about that for select specifics, really.
You are not a victim. You are literally displaying double speak and... wayment!
Last edited:
Team Andromeda
Member
Shame they never talk about sound design and what a game is doing at a code level. There again, not a single one of the DF team is a developer
Drizzlehell
Banned
I guess I'm not a consoomer.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
You just don't speak for everyone. I know, sometimes those egos can be hard to tame. I've been there.
Torrent of Pork
Banned
The takes ITT where people think a PS5 Pro will come in at anything less than $800 when modern Sony is hawking $200 controllers is adorable.
I'm pretty sure they don't want to spend the money redesigning that thing and renegotiating with suppliers again at lower volume now that the sales on the X is slowing down. The redesigns and cost cutting will be with their mainstream console which they see/saw as selling more further in the gen, the Series S.
Last edited:
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
MS has $200 controllers too. They even have cute little controller hoodies!The takes ITT where people think a PS5 Pro will come in at anything less than $800 when modern Sony is hawking $200 controllers is adorable.
They also just stealth increased the price of the S. Very charitable.
I bet it won't be $800.
Last edited:
Drizzlehell
Banned
Nice try but I never claimed to be speaking for anyone but myself.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
You literally argued that it rips people off. Complete with PC mental gymnastics.
Just say for yourself then, and the mental gymnastics need not happen.
Drizzlehell
Banned
No, I said that it is a ripoff, don't twist my words around.
Sounds like you're the one straining to make a point now.
Last edited:
Pallas
Member
Once again, you act like it’s only one side doing all the misinformation and bullshit. You honestly believe it’s just the dumb Xbox fanatics that does this?
Hell several fanatics of “the other side” that were banned from Gaf for trolling and console warring went on to make their own forum to spew their narrative that got them banned here. Let’s that forget those like
thelastword
,
ethomaz
,
Gamernyc78
and such.I’m not disagreeing with you that Xbox and also Microsoft have some horrible shills, obsessed fans, but that shit goes both ways.
We can just agree to disagree at this point though but this site is getting better as the mods are weeding out the warriors from both sides.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Trolling, yes. There are over the top fantards in all camps.Once again, you act like it’s only one side doing all the misinformation and bullshit. You honestly believe it’s just the dumb Xbox fanatics that does this?
Hell several fanatics of “the other side” that were banned from Gaf for trolling and console warring went on to make their own forum to spew their narrative that got them banned here. Let’s that forget those like
I’m not disagreeing with you that Xbox and also Microsoft have some horrible shills, obsessed fans, but that shit goes both ways.
We can just agree to disagree at this point though but this site is getting better as the mods are weeding out the warriors from both sides.
FUD campaigns that kept moving to the next thing, then the next thing, then the next thing? Nah. Even DF partook in the FUD early on. And they are actively trying to do it right now, by saying "they hope a PS5 Pro does not exist, that it will hinder the base model." Which last gen showed that was not the case.
Pure clownery.
We are not talking about fanatics and trolling, we are talking about well organized FUD campaigns. Something that history has shown to be a constant.
Last edited:
Drizzlehell
Banned
Look who's talking, lol. You literally have no arguments so you substitute them with stupid gifs.
I'm still waiting for you to tell me how a mid-gen console refresh isn't a waste of time and money, and it would be better to wait for a full generation to complete its cycle.
Last edited:
PropellerEar
Member
Hell several fanatics of “the other side” that were banned from Gaf for trolling and console warring went on to make their own forum to spew their narrative that got them banned here. Let’s that forget those like
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Some like options. Just like the PC has mid-gen refreshes on their GPUs, etc..
GHG
explained it all. It's a broken record. You don't like it, cool beans. There are those that do. It does not hurt you with them existing.
Last edited:
ChiefDada
Gold Member
I didn't say anybody is waiting for anything.
No. Logical people's decision analysis changes with new information. Since it's impossible to know how a hypothetical PS5 Pro would ultimately compare to a hypothetical 2024 mid-range GPU card in price, tech, and performance, your statement is incorrect.
Drizzlehell
Banned
I can voice my opinion too, you know.Some like options. Just like the PC has mid-gen refreshes on their GPUs, etc..
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Never said you could not. I just see flaws in the console/PC argument when making declarative statements.
Drizzlehell
Banned
Oh, I see. I will make sure to prefix my every post with a disclaimer that will let you know that what I'm saying is merely an opinion and not an attempt to speak for everyone, just so you wouldn't have to get so confused.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Oh I don't care on a personal level, I wasn't a One X (or One S) owner in the first place. Just calling it like I'm seeing it.
Sometimes you see hardware that seems to have been put to pasture much sooner that it ought to. I also put Dreamcast and even the original Xbox in these categories where the hardware could have been viable for a good few more years.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Why?
bender
What time is it?
Microsoft's contract with NVIDIA was less than favorable, to put it charitably, so they needed to sunset that wonderful monstrosity post haste. Those were the days when we saw price drops on hardware too. Remember the $99 Gamecube? Speaking of price drops, that Gamecube thread and the Pro console rumor thread got me thinking a few days back. The age of price drops for console hardware seems largely over. It feels like we are trending to new revisions of hardware every few years targeting the $400-500 price point.
Drizzlehell
Banned
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
They're going to need to if they don't want to lose people to the PC because, if the consoles are already struggling now, it's just gonna get worse going forward. Games like Starfield and FF16 are proof (not that we needed more proof as the consoled limitations have been apparent for a while-not that games run/look bad per say, but in needing low native resolutions at middling settings in cross gen games to get 60 fps).
hinch7
Member
That and it doesn't make sense to add another, premium SKU for consumers. Series X and S are falling in sales/interests. Introducing another high cost ($650+) console in today's climate isn't going to go down well. The same goes for Sony and rumored PS5 refresh. Most people won't care/know about 30 or 60 fps with/without Raytracing. They'll just buy the core model that can play the games.
Both MS and Sony have learned the upper limit to what consumers are/were willing to spend on consoles, and thats well under $600.
Last edited:
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I didn't care for the Pro last gen (also did not mind it existing for those that did), just stuck with my OG PS4 until I got a PS5.
This gen, however. I would cop me a Pro model if it meant keeping those 60fps.
Last edited:
Thirty7ven
Banned
Part of the read here is that maybe MS were sure Sony only had the 399$ console, which along with all the rumors and “leaks” and fud about PS5 being 9TF with no HW RT, RDNA 1 tech, might have made them believe Series X really was that big dick pounding on the table.
Last edited:
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Its inevitable that when pushing any closed hardware configuration you will eventually hit a limit where some sort of compromise is necessary, be it in frame-rate, resolution, whatever.
Make peace with that reality or buy a PC and be prepared to continually spend to keep up with the bleeding edge or as close as your budget will allow.
Its a fool's errand trying to turn consoles into PC's when PC already exists!
MikeM
Member
Consoles have an active life span of 10 years. Look at the Xbox One/PS4 consoles. They still get games.
Sleepwalker
Member
As someone who rode his base PS4 for the full gen until the launch of the PS5 I can tell you it wouldn't have been a waste of money. I suffered playing through Control running at 10fps during combat, incredibly shit performance on multiple games and a fan as loud as a plane turbine. I was glad to see the back of that piece of shit when I upgraded, same for the xbox one.
If I could go back I would've gotten a PS4 pro at launch and chilled for the next 4 years.
Last edited:
Drizzlehell
Banned
Yeah, it was pretty much the same story for me. Jumping straight to PS5 was pure bliss but I didn't buy Pro because I simply couldn't afford it at the time. That's what's pissing me off about the idea so much. You either upgrade halfway through what's supposed to be at least a 6-8 year long generation, or you're stuck having problems like the one that you described with the Control example.
And to be fair, none of the previous generations lasted that long before the next console arrived but at least you didn't have to worry about whether your PS2 or PS3 games will run well enough on your particular version of the console. The hardware remained pretty much the same until these consoles were phased out completely, which generally took far longer than 6 years.
FrankWza
Member
Plenty of PS5s were sold on auction sites for more than that. Great games sell consoles.
Last edited:
Klayzer
Member
Time and time again.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
They didn't though in the lead up to the reveals and eventual launch they knew they were close but they knew they had the slight power advantage with the Series X
Not many people were dying on that hill that the Series X would be more powerful but I was one
GHG
Gold Member
These 9.2 tf junkies thought they got away with it.
Last edited:
Crayon
Member
Once again, you act like it’s only one side doing all the misinformation and bullshit. You honestly believe it’s just the dumb Xbox fanatics that does this?
Hell several fanatics of “the other side” that were banned from Gaf for trolling and console warring went on to make their own forum to spew their narrative that got them banned here. Let’s that forget those like
I’m not disagreeing with you that Xbox and also Microsoft have some horrible shills, obsessed fans, but that shit goes both ways.
We can just agree to disagree at this point though but this site is getting better as the mods are weeding out the warriors from both sides.
Yeah I don't think some classic fanboys getting up their own ass equals an obvious fud campaign spamming the shit out of every thread for a year straight. Unless there was a rampant noise machine of the xsx being a hardware and software engineering disaster in every conceivable way that I missed. Tired of faking both-sides on this just to appear above it all.
GHG
Gold Member
You know, it would be far easier for you to say that all it would take for you to be on board with mid gen refreshes again is for Microsoft to do another mid gen reshesh instead of doing all these flailing backflips.
They planned and released the mid gen refresh from day one, yet the Series X is failing to deliver on it's promise of being the most performant console on the market and the Series S is causing problems to a degree that's causing certain games to be indefinitely delayed for the whole platform. The facts don't align with the narrative you're attempting to push here unfortunately.
Last edited:
PharaoTutAnchAmun
Member
Ore ore....next gen is the swansong of Xbox...
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
As someones first console it makes sense, but I wouldn't want to buy another refresh of the same console gen 2, 3 years later. No matter if it's from MS or Sony.
Not sure what narrative I'm attempting to push here. I just said I don't agree with the mid-gen refresh cycle. It also makes a lot less sense this time than the last time where 4K adoption was the big boom between 2013 and 2016 which necessitated the mid gens in the first place.
Right now we're still not out of the cross-gen period in the first 3 years of the consoles.