NoblesseOblige
Banned
Out next month I think? It's Jan '17th's issue. I don't when NatGeo publishes them.
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National Geographic: Children on gender
- Thread starter Alcotholic
- Start date
- Status
Out next month I think? It's Jan '17th's issue. I don't when NatGeo publishes them.
Does your Son want to transition or is he happy being a feminine boy? I only ask, because someone I met at college was the same, but from the other side. They were born a girl, but always called themselves a tomboy growing up and started identifying as a boy a little bit later on. He eventually transitioned to male just before college when he was 16.
Listening to his story was eye-opening, because until then I had no idea how early people realise they want to transition/don't want to be the sex they were born with. Until I met him I'd never met a trans-person before so had no idea about anything.
I hope things work out for the girl in the OP. Everyone should be allowed to be happy and it really upsets me when I hear people saying that hormone replacement shouldn't be part of the NHS, because they don't seem to understand how painful it is for transpeople to live trapped in their own bodies.
It really depresses me that the Internet is being used to peddle such revolting shit.
Gender is really interesting to me. I know that around the time I was four or five, I was telling my parents practically every day how much I hated being a boy and wished I was a girl. My parents eased off on some things and allowed me to do the things I wanted to do that some would see as for girls. I got a lot happier but ultimately I wasn't trans. There really are a lot of different layers and levels to this.
John Kowalski
Banned
I was having trouble watching their video, here is an youtube link if anyone needs it too. Everyone should watch it it's basically cute kids on demand
Team Alucard
Banned
If you deny medical treatment to trans kids until they turn 18, you're essentially condemning the vast majority of them to a life of misery.
The effects of male puberty are not reversible. Most who transition post-puberty will not end up looking like Blair White.
I will be dead in 18 months given my current mental deterioration. Things might not have had to end this way if I had access to the appropriate medical care and resources when I was younger, but even at 23 its far too late for me and for most others who struggle with these issues.
The effects of male puberty are not reversible. Most who transition post-puberty will not end up looking like Blair White.
I will be dead in 18 months given my current mental deterioration. Things might not have had to end this way if I had access to the appropriate medical care and resources when I was younger, but even at 23 its far too late for me and for most others who struggle with these issues.
How much time it took that part of your life ?
Insane Metal
Gold Member
Goddamn
This will be hard to watch
I think for about a year. They took me to a therapist for two years during and after to make sure I was alright because they were worried about me. Aside from my love for Star Wars and video games though, I never really fit in the stereotypical standard we have for men.
I'm sad the rest of the article isn't getting much attention. There's a lot of heartbreaking commentary, like this:
Another little girl from Kenya says the worst thing about being a girl, is "when you're not an adult and you're still a child when you give birth."
Also, lots of commentary about how girls clean the house and play with dolls, but can't do other things. One little girl from China says: "I want to be a police officer, but most police are men and there are no women, so I can't."
Or one little girl saying: "The worst thing about being a girl is that you just can't do things that boys can do; like, it kind of bothers me how there was not one girl president."
It's sad to see the next generation, so cognizant of these things and still facing all the same problems of the past.
Another little girl from Kenya says the worst thing about being a girl, is "when you're not an adult and you're still a child when you give birth."
Also, lots of commentary about how girls clean the house and play with dolls, but can't do other things. One little girl from China says: "I want to be a police officer, but most police are men and there are no women, so I can't."
Or one little girl saying: "The worst thing about being a girl is that you just can't do things that boys can do; like, it kind of bothers me how there was not one girl president."
It's sad to see the next generation, so cognizant of these things and still facing all the same problems of the past.
Fuckin' knew this was Blaire White before I even clicked on it.
Messofanego
Banned
Blaire White has got a few gamergators/alt rights on her side, one of them includes Shoe0nhead. That's how her channel gets quite a bit of traction, they've found the one transgender person on their side and are going to boost her popularity to use as a chip in arguments.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
ShoeOnhead is exactly who she reminded me of from that screenshot but I couldn't remember her name. I can't stand those clowns. The most pathetic part is the people who consume these youtubers are the exact type to rally against 'echo chambers' while they literally feast on these videos produced specifically to echo back to them their terrible ideas. Anyway, I guess that's not what the topic was about. Just glad to remember who I was trying to remember earlier.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
It's a pretty common strategy for hate groups. Unfortunately, those who don't understand that strategy are easily fooled and suckered into their arguments and see it as a "valuable counter argument", which is exactly the goal to legitimatize their hate.
It's why I'm at a point where if someone brings up a figure in such a group, you don't even waste time arguing the points, you attack the source and get it over with.
Messofanego
Banned
I love that they did this around the world and of different classes, so that the argument that it's just bored privileged people who want to change their genders can be shut down.
Is there any documentary or video about following the transition from a young age and how it affected them throughout (with or without medication)?
Is there any documentary or video about following the transition from a young age and how it affected them throughout (with or without medication)?
They interviewed children around the world, from different classes, but I think only one of the children is transgender.
John Kowalski
Banned
I think that qualifies as a super power.
Before this thread I was blissfull unaware of her existence but GOD DAMN !
I mean I want to search her twitter and she mentioned she is happy to be put in the same bag as Milo ! The dude who just set new barriers for being transphobic !
What is the problem with these people ?
What is with women that 4chan-like people loves and boxxy style makeup ?
edit :
After googling about her ... no I don't think there is anything super about that =|
Silent Chief
Member
Got 3 daughters. I've never heard any of them express this type of sentiment.
Quite the contrary. As soon as puberty hits it was a fight to keep them from going to school half-naked. Never had this particular problem with my son.
We've got girls playing hockey. There is one that beat my son to the Little League Baseball district team and they made it all the way to the World Series. There are no impediments and don't let anybody tell you otherwise.
The only thing a girl shouldn't do is walk alone late at night.
I know a girl who got murdered after her late shift at Wendy's and I have a daughter who got raped walking from the bus in the middle of the night.
John Kowalski
Banned
A preemptive BS detector? I'd pay for it
Considering the previous post by the same people was :
And there are VERY FEW trans people against treatment of trans children, specially youtuber ones ... you don't need to be bitten by a radioactive sherlock holmes to make the connection =P
I've since deleted the link. My recommendations are now filled with bullshit thanks to her :/
lightskintwin
Banned
A good report I watched that educated me more on the subject was PBS Frontline's Growing Up Trans Trailer
It's still available to watch free online and i definitely recommend it
http://www.pbs.org/video/2365520005/
It's still available to watch free online and i definitely recommend it
http://www.pbs.org/video/2365520005/
sixteen-bit
Member
Pretty good response deconstructing the original video you linked
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUbiFH-8-DU
I'm guessing the reason for that dislike bar is Blaire sending her followers there? Bah
AntraxSuicide
Banned
Culture wars. I'm actually incredibly curious to see where US culture in particular ends up in about 30 years once most of the baby boomers die (not that they're all some horrible caricature, but this culture war stuff is predominantly that generation). Sure, there's no shortage of Gen X or millennial bigots, but in the US, so much of our cultural energy is spent recreating the childhood of the baby boomers. If something would be out of place in an episode of Leave It To Beaver or the Andy Griffith Show, then it's got to go. Trans issues, the War on Christmas, political correctness; all of those things that they hate talking about are hated precisely because it differs from the rose-colored glasses viewpoint they have about the 1950s.
The worst culture crime you can commit to these folks is to shatter the illusion. They're like Blanche in A Streetcar Named Desire; they won't stop clinging to some fantasy about the "good ole days" to see reality, and it's hurting a lot of people.
So yeah, I'm curious to see how these issues get discussed once that obsession is gone. It seems impossible to me that the discussion would stay the same.
No, because he's not trans. As I said, there are more than two genders, and it's a thing in my culture that there are feminine men and masculine women and everything in between. He's two spirit, and I'm really proud of him
AntraxSuicide
Banned
Not exactly the idea of the quote. The point is that for women, since there are career paths that are lacking in female employees, you get the sense that it isn't possible in practice while it is on paper. There's a good academic paper (that I can't find right now) that broke down the number of female candidates for office before and after a woman won said office. The number skyrockets after a woman wins. Women basically don't try until they know you can actually do it (which is true of most people actually, everyone has bills and shit).
It's like convincing someone in 1958 that we can land a guy on the moon and get him back. All the physics would've added up at the time, but your argument becomes a helluva lot more convincing once you actually put the guy on the moon. True on paper just doesn't convince in the way that true in practice does.
QuantumSquid
Member
The sooner an individual realizes they're transgender, the better. I'm pretty sure you're able to transition almost completely if you start taking hormones before you even go through puberty.
Which makes the fact that the second part has so little dislikes kinda hilarious xD
I always found funny how people against puberty blockers say that "how can the kid choose at that small age?" ... DUDE if that argument was REALLY what you think, you would want EVERYONE to use puberty blockers till they are 18 years old so they can decide on which puberty they go =P
Team Alucard
Banned
Pretty much.
Withholding treatment from a transgender youth until they turn 18 is like saying to someone with a degenerative vision issue, "well, there's a cure for your illness, but we won't give it to you until you're half-blind."
For many you're destroying any chance of them ever having a happy and normal life.
Don't be so dramatic Alucard ... destroying chances of a good puberty, creating needs of new procedures and decreasing self esteem in some people. Not even close to "destroying any chance of them ever having a happy and normal life.". Jesus !
Transgender transition is among the medical procedures (hrt and genital surgery) with the least amount of regret... if later transition was such a "no chance of a happy life" the numbers would be totally different.
Stop being a pussy and get yourself a pussy =P
Transgender transition is among the medical procedures (hrt and genital surgery) with the least amount of regret... if later transition was such a "no chance of a happy life" the numbers would be totally different.
Stop being a pussy and get yourself a pussy =P
Messofanego
Banned
This is kind of what I was looking for. Thanks!
Well, everyone's different. Some people simply couldn't handle that about themselves then, or want children first before transitioning and until we figure out cloning (and make it legal for humans) if you want them biologically then you kind of NEED to go through at least some puberty as that's the whole point of it. And some are just hit harder by dysphoria or the genetic lottery, some probably look very feminine even after puberty so it takes little to pass even before hormones, and some turn into Conan or a bear and that makes it way harder.
What probably is true is that if a child is adamant they are the other gender than what they were assigned then making them wait until puberty runs its course DESPITE wanting to transition is just senselessly cruel.
What probably is true is that if a child is adamant they are the other gender than what they were assigned then making them wait until puberty runs its course DESPITE wanting to transition is just senselessly cruel.
Team Alucard
Banned
Sure, everybody is different.
But as a general rule of thumb, your quality of life as a trans person is strongly related to how many people clock you. The higher that number is, the worse off you're going to be.
And going through puberty pushes that percentage from near 0, to potentially all the way to 100.
Which is why forcing someone to wait until adulthood to do anything is so cruel.
QuantumSquid
Member
This is unfortunately too true most of the time. Every so often I'll check out various transgender forums like Reddit's r/MTF, FTM, etc. and tons of people post their pictures and it seems like 1 in 30 of the individuals in those pictures actually look like the gender they identify as. I feel especially bad for MTF transgender people who were born with very strong masculine jawlines, as having a facial feature like that pretty much singlehandedly destroys their chances of looking like a woman no matter how well they style their hair or apply their makeup.
I have an immense amount of respect for transgender people because to come out and try to completely change the way you present yourself so that it more accurately reflects how you feel on the inside requires a level of courage and bravery that I don't think I will ever have.
Terrorblot
Member
I definitely wish I had come out earlier, maybe wouldn't be stuck at 6'2 with size 15 shoes. I definitely knew at 5.
I often look at Reddit's r/transtimelines and it seems the younger a person is at the start, they better than are (kind of goes without saying). I've seen a couple people on there around 60 years old and their features are just so defined that it's so hard to transition. But it's awesome that they have the confidence to do that and are happy about it. But then you see ones that have been on HRT since 12-15 and they look like the gender they identify as (sometimes the girls look better than me!) I fully support letting a child do it if they're 100% sure. And there's nothing wrong with it
Team Alucard
Banned
Yes. Being able to pass after puberty has run its course is extremely rare. There will always be the lucky outlier, but the mature human skeleton is far too sexually dimorphic for the average person to have a successful transition at 18 or older.
And if you can't pass, then your quality of life takes a massive hit. Gainful employment becomes nearly impossible, which often leads to extreme poverty and homelessness. Isolation and loneliness become huge issues as most people don't want to be seen with a transgender person. You can forget about any chance of romance or intimacy. And you're likely to face constant ridicule and harrassment everywhere you go, which can quickly turn physical and violent at the drop of a hat.
It's a bleak, miserable existence, and not a life that I consider worth living. Which is why I will stay in the closet until the death.
John Kowalski
Banned
Watching this and it's really fantastic, thanks b
Some of the IDEALS presented are too dimorphic, but I think humans on a whole get a bit closer to the middle than not. Maybe some features just stand out too much but hormones do help quite a bit.
natsuyasumi
Member
While your own situation may well be that challenging (I don't know, and I hope it's not), you're being over the top painting such a bleak picture for all trans people. Countless trans women "pass" as cis just fine despite transitioning after 18. I started HRT at 27 and while I'm certainly read sometimes I do fine in my day to day life despite being 6'1" and too lazy to improve my voice. I recently came out to a presumably cis lesbian couple I've been friends with for two years and they literally had no idea I was trans. (I always assume people can tell, which is not exactly healthy, but that's where I'm at in my mental journey.) I have never been harassed, thank goodness. Sometimes I'll notice people looking, at most. That's not to say I don't still have major issues with my body -- most women do, sadly -- but trans medical care has alleviated the worst of them quite a lot.
Moreover, I've known trans people who fall far outside cis beauty standards and are still very happy with themselves and find peace and fulfillment, as well as meaningful relationships.
Again, I don't know your situation. Maybe you're in a hostile country, maybe testosterone hit you hard. But it comes off like you're letting hypothetical fears run rampant to the detriment of your potential happiness. I want you to know that the stuff you've expressed above, while theoretically possible for any given person, is far, far from universal. In my experience far more trans women thrive and succeed than fall within the confines of your dire scenarios. And I'm not just talking teenage transitioners who manage to avoid testosterone poisoning.
That is not match the expectations of the real world.
You are looking at those people seeing timelines, KNOWING they are trans.
Real life is much easier to pass because nobody walks on the street thinking they will meet a trans woman ... So one with the more masculine jawlines are just taken as ....Regular cis ugly women. Or northern Europe immigrants =P
People are usually read as trans after they speak a lot, like a job interview
Of course that is because people want to be models, want to be hot. Fat is androgynous.
Here is a video of me (I am the one in green shirt)
https://youtu.be/RC41Jd8vs0U
Laser changed my looks more than hormones, I am far from the expectations of a good looking woman, I dress like a butch lesbian and you can clearly see masculine features. And yet I pass pretty good on my day to day life =P
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