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New UK law proposed: rest of your life in jail with no parole for killing policemen
- Thread starter Jackpot
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smokeandmirrors
Banned
They know what they are getting into when they put on the uniform though. It's not like it's advertised as sunshine and roses.
Not that I'm disparaging them. On the contrary I respect what they do, but I don't necessarily agree with the idea of the police needing to be a protected class. They already have perks and access outside normal citizens.
Ravensmash
Member
Have you got numbers for this?
There's an IPCC there for a reason also, and presumably we'd hear many more incidents of police wrongdoing if the majority were hellbent thugs.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Uh, how bout no
Not many police are killed through cold blooded murder so in the grand scheme of things it won't make much of a difference at the end of the day.
There was a guy who rang 999 and then shot the officers answering the call followed by lobbing a grenade at them. It might put those types of guys off, but I don't think prison is the first thing on their mind when they are lobbing grenades at coppers.
There was a guy who rang 999 and then shot the officers answering the call followed by lobbing a grenade at them. It might put those types of guys off, but I don't think prison is the first thing on their mind when they are lobbing grenades at coppers.
frankie_baby
Member
annecdotal evidence only i'm afraid, the problem is most people wont even bother making the complaints, especially as often the only other witnesses to such incidents are the police
i'm inclined to think with modern technology all police officers uniforms should be fitted with a camera that transmits a full video stream of all their actions on duty to be held by an independent body
Rubbish King
The gift that keeps on giving
That doesn't really happen here
Or better yet, apply the same standards to sentencing for *all* people regardless of their profession.
A person killing their partner after years of abuse is less of a danger to society than a youth killing someone in gang-warfare, who in turn is less of a danger to society than some psychopath who murders indiscriminately.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Theresa May is saying that the police represent the state which is why harsher punishments for their murder need to be introduced. Translation: Attack the state/government and you'll be severely punished - more than usual.
Ravensmash
Member
Erm, isn't that the case anyway?
Delusibeta
Banned
So killing police offers is punished by the harshest punishment in the land? What's next, Judge Dredd in real life? Not to demean police officers, but I'm not sure why they need special treatment: murder is already a crime with a harsh punishment.
ElectricBlue187
Member
Yeah I don't see anything wrong with getting life for murdering someone. Seems to be an appropriate punishment given the severity of the crime.
I'm am very opposed to "whole life" tarriffs anyway, so when a silly justification like "killing this person is worse because of their job" it just really sets me on edge.
Hope this gets shot down to pieces.
Hope this gets shot down to pieces.
That is not a murder.
The flipside of this is that police wouldn't be able to use their discretion in not applying the law. Especially in the case of kids on the wrong path, a stern talking to may be preferable to arrest.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
Is this not basically like the judge ruling "At Her Majesty's pleasure" as the sentence?
frankie_baby
Member
its a man dying after being attacked by a pig, i'd imagine had it been the other way round (ian attacking the pig) not only would the charge have been murder but there would have been a conviction
It's a man tragically dying after an officer wrongly shoved him to the ground. The officer had no intent to kill or any reasonable expectation that his action would have caused a death.
It is not a murder by any legal, colloquial, or logical definition. Not that your language indicates you care about such details.
edit:
No, as there would have been no grounds to charge for a murder.
frankie_baby
Member
it was unnecessary brutality that caused a death, brutal acts can cause death strangely enough
Delusibeta
Banned
They already do get life by default for murder, it's the "without any chance of parole by default" that's being reserved for police officers.
Which doesn't make it a murder.
frankie_baby
Member
ok if it makes you feel any better its a copper getting away with taking a life
Your logic is flawed..... As long as you don't kill a copper you'll be fine. The law is designed to protect the police who have to answer any call pretty much unarmed, its merely a deterrence. I wouldn't be a copper for a gold pig but they do a sterling job in the face of horrendous adversity sometimes, lets make sure the law protects them so they can do their job which is to keep us safe the best they can.
If you are stupid enough to fall foul of this particular law then it is your own stupid fault.
Does it make you feel hard calling police "pigs." Bet you wouldn't ring them if there was a man trying to hack your door down with a machete.... You're too hard for that, clearly.
Commander Jameson
Member
What would happen if you killed a plain-clothes police officer who had not identified themselves?
The law already protects them - murder is illegal.
Singling them out as a group that is extra unkillable is wrong. That and whole-life sentences without parole are also wrong.
frankie_baby
Member
oh i would, wouldnt expect them to be much help
Mate of mine had his brand new 4 day old car nicked from his driveway after the tea leafs took the keys from his kitchen.
It was back on his drive 48 hours later.
They ain't all bad.
A police officer found guilty of murder will be punished with murder, a police officer found guilty of making a mistake on duty will be punished for making a mistake on duty.
frankie_baby
Member
i got pushed in the back by some twat trying to start a fight with me, when the police arrived i told them my wrist was damaged they were like its no big deal and basically said they weren't gonna even take a proper statement off me or arrest him, the next day i went to the hospital and turned out it was broken, i got back home and the police had been round to drop off an absolutely pathetic letter of apology off him, i had to put up with 6 weeks in a cast and spoiled my holiday he didnt even get a caution (and the whole thing would've been on cctv if they'd bothered to check)
Indrid Cold1
Member
What is this bollocks... When would you set Ian Huntley free then? Steve Wright? Peter Sutcliffe? I could go on for a while as the list is depressingly long.
Pushed or hit?
I could see trying to prove intent from a push for a court would be next to impossible. Was it on a night out in a bar or something?
Ravensmash
Member
Why are whole-life sentences wrong?
Slightly off-topic, but this also fits in with the public wanting harsher sentences. Heck, it seems from my Facebook that the majority of the public want to bring back hanging.
I think the rule should apply to all the emergency services who are expected to go to the unknown in the call of duty.
There could be anything behind the door they've just knocked on.
Rubbish King
The gift that keeps on giving
Yeahhh.... there are a few cases here and there
but let's now look at america
remember our coppers dont really carry guns
I didn't say set them free. Chance for parole =/= they'll be out.
We live in a society that view imprisonment as rehabilitation. Some people likely cannot be rehabilitated, but that is not to be determined by a judge before rehabilitation begins.
Life without parole goes against a very core concept of our society, and its existence is a great hypocrisy of our legal system.
It's the "without parole" part I take issue with, not the "whole life" part - really a better phrasing of my ideal version might be "indefinite until parole".
Ravensmash
Member
I don't think that convicted child killers deserve a chance at rehabilitation in all honesty.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
This law won't help them with that.
MWS Natural
Member
I'm cool with this, as long as police involved in wrongful deaths get the same sentence.
frankie_baby
Member
dileberately pushed in the back was just on my way to the shop on my own and he was trying to pick a fight with me i refused (not that i'd want to get into a fight anyway but i know he fights dirty and would probably get his mates to join in) so i just walked away, if they'd bothered to check the cctv they would've quite clearly seen him run up behind me and knock me to the ground but they just couldn't be arsed
PJV3
Member
I don't mind a judge taking those things into account, but the effect of a law like this is to say other murders aren't as bad.
10 points for a policeman
9 for a child
8 for the elderly
7 for a woman etc.
A life is a life in my opinion.
So kill them, then.
Nobody 'deserves' anything.
Rehabilitation isn't a chance - it is or it isn't. Either you've turned a vile person into a good person who can better society, or you've still got a bad person.
If you're giving up before you've even started, might as well bring back the death penalty. There's little difference in terms of negative impact on society.
Ravensmash
Member
A child killer (or other utterly heinous criminal) is never going to better society, are they? People can change, and people do change - and I support our prisons in their attempt to get certain people on the right path upon release.
I'm allowed to be anti-capital punishment and still support whole life tariffs for those scum.
Possibly not but if it makes them feel safer, then so be it.
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