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[LiQuid!]

Wait, is this an issue?

Because this a thing among Muslims. You call other Muslims brother and sister.

Not "brother" as in "bro" or "breh" or whatever. Saying to someone "hey brother, how are you" that's just kindly endearment. But I often hear white people refer to a black man as "a brother" the way black vernacular refers to themselves as "brotha's and sistah's."

I agree that how its said and its context is important.

 

[benjipwns]

Gotcha, nigga.

Spoiler

I'm black, I'm good.

 

[ajim]

I dunno. The op seems simple.

For me, I just never use it. Like I never even felt the need to use it around black mates or black girls I date who use it all the time.


I'm just an uncool white dude and don't plan on changing that lolol

 

[Nightbird]

Here you go:

http://www.veoh.com/watch/v432018717yDx32sc

You're amazing, thanks!

 

[Stasis]

It's fucking sad this shit even needs a thread but I'm happy it has one as educational and complete as this. Shit needs to be passed out to everyone in condensed format as some kind of brochure. Especially now.

I'm white. I grew up in NYC. Black and Asian friends mostly. Just the way it ended up. My dad's best friend is a black man I've known my whole life as an 'uncle' basically. Part of the family as much as any blood relative. I've heard this word my whole damn life. With an 'a' so we're clear. Never ONCE did I think it was acceptable for me to say it outside my closest black friends. And they let me know in their own way when it was OK that I could. I didn't ask. But at one point it was OK. I was alright to say it in certain circumstances with THEM. Just like my dad with his best friend in 'very' specific and emotional circumstances. I heard it a lot. Still knew it wasn't to be used.

I'm rambling but mainly the point is: I grew up way more exposed to this than a lot of you (I'm assuming, yes, but I'm basing it on tons of comments I've read here recently), with a lot of friends who'd fully accept me as someone who could say it and STILL I won't. Just fucking don't. You need to respect it. For all the reasons expressed. If you end up in a situation where you think you can say it, and you aren't 100% sure? Fucking don't. You'll know when you can... and it's a rare moment. I'm addressing this to the unsure or to those who think it's ok because we hear it in songs and shit. So many fucking ppl saying this when they shouldn't and it bothers me. I hear it all the time, even in French Canada. I know it's not my fight and maybe I should stfu and back off but fuck... just read this thread and respect it.

I debated commenting and writing this long ass post. If I've offended anyone I'm sorry. This is one of the things I'll always help educate when I can. Don't mean to make it MY crusade. It's not, obviously. I'm just exposed to it, and sensitive and caring. For all the right reasons, I feel.

Anyway, good thread man.

 

[Slayven]

Just respect the history, if you did that all your questions on if it is right or wrong for you to say it would be answered

 

[Christhor]

I mean, if this really is such a big issue for white people, then they could just avoid black people? Problem solved.

 

[Galbir]

they let me know in their own way when it was OK that I could.

I just can't agree with the Idea that someone else should have the power to tell me when I can or can't use a word. Like I've said I get the history of it and I respect how terrible it is. I suppose this mind set puts me in the racist light category. That's too bad.

 

[Stinkles]

It's like North Korea. I've heard there's a couple of ways white people can go there but the danger is you're contributing to a bad cause out of vanity and self absorption and there's a real danger it could go nuclear.

 

[Glass Rebel]

I just can't agree with the Idea that someone else should have the power to tell me when I can or can't use a word. Like I've said I get the history of it and I respect how terrible it is. I suppose this mind set puts me in the racist light category. That's too bad.

this isn't about "can or can't" but "should or shouldn't"

a lot of people have a hard time understanding this

 

[benjipwns]

It's like North Korea. I've heard there's a couple of ways white people can go there but the danger is you're contributing to a bad cause out of vanity and self absorption and there's a real danger it could go nuclear.

I went on a guided tour and the white people couldn't be nicer. They weren't as racist as you hear in the news.

 

[MrCunningham]

I remember when I was a teen in the '90s and my friends and I would throw around the n-word in casual conversations. But never in a derogative or racist context, more like: "Hey wassap, my ni**er/a?!" (yes, with the "er" or "a", either one). It was easy to pick up on back then because it was commonly used in so much hip-hop/ rap related music that a lot of us were into. As a young slightly impressionable teen, it was something that was easy to emulate. It was also the whitest white thing someone like me could do at the time, which in retrospect made me sound like a total jerk-ass. But I am sure that this was also the case for a lot of white kids back then that are within my age group.

It is not a word that I would use now though.

 

[Stasis]

I just can't agree with the Idea that someone else should have the power to tell me when I can or can't use a word. Like I've said I get the history of it and I respect how terrible it is. I suppose this mind set puts me in the racist light category. That's too bad.

If you understand the history and how terrible it is then I wouldn't categorize you as "racist-light". I'd just say you need to never say it. The end. Ain't about 'power' over you, or dictating what you can or can't do. You shouldn't look at it that way. If you are, then you just need to accept it's a word you'll never say for all the reasons you say you understand.

 

[Galbir]

this isn't about "can or can't" but "should or shouldn't"

a lot of people have a hard time understanding this

This is hard for me because like I've said I don't even care to use either word. Theoretically speaking if one of my black friends used it and then I used it for some ungodly reason and they corrected me or gave me a look about it I would be put off. I just don't see that it is fair to ok it for one skin tone but not another. I understand that blacks have it terrible compared to whites in America but setting up another cultural fence doesn't help that. Would all this energy be better spent electing official who actually care about blacks and the poor to help even out the playing field?

All that being said I can see how whites that use the words tend to fall into either being huge bigots or thinking they are black.

If you understand the history and how terrible it is then I wouldn't categorize you as "racist-light". I'd just say you need to never say it. The end. Ain't about 'power' over you, or dictating what you can or can't do. You shouldn't look at it that way. If you are, then you just need to accept it's a word you'll never say for all the reasons you say you understand.

In the same breath that you say it isn't about saying what I can or can't do you say I need to never say it.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Even as a stupid dumb idiot child I knew not to use certain words. The discussed being one of them. I'll never understand how another white person thinks it could or should be acceptable for them to use it.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

For anyone concerned about the perils of singing along, you could always follow the Adam Buxton path...

https://youtu.be/iZyqwOOmETI

 

[Omega Ultimus]

This is hard for me because like I've said I don't even care to use either word. Theoretically speaking if one of my black friends used it and then I used it for some ungodly reason and they corrected me or gave me a look about it I would be put off. I just don't see that it is fair to ok it for one skin tone but not another. I understand that blacks have it terrible compared to whites in America but setting up another cultural fence doesn't help that. Would all this energy be better spent electing official who actually care about blacks and the poor to help even out the playing field?

All that being said I can see how whites that use the words tend to fall into either being huge bigots or thinking they are black.

When you hear or read the word "nigger" (or "nigga") what's the first image that comes to your mind?

All of the inextricable negative connotations related to the word apply directly, and only, to black folks. Call a person of any other race a "nigger" and they won't feel denigrated (at least not in a truly hurtful, deep sense) because they're not targeted by it; they're not forever tied to the history of what it means to be a "nigger".

In close social circles it may just be another word to refer to your friends, but everywhere else it carries a legacy of hatred and pain.

 

[GeordieMark]

I dunno. The op seems simple.

For me, I just never use it. Like I never even felt the need to use it around black mates or black girls I date who use it all the time.


I'm just an uncool white dude and don't plan on changing that lolol

I'm with this. I have no need or desire to use that word, so I don't. It's not difficult.

 

[Galbir]

When you hear or read the word "nigger" (or "nigga") what's the first image that comes to your mind?

All of the inextricable negative connotations related to the word apply directly, and only, to black folks. Call a person of any other race a "nigger" and they won't feel denigrated (at least not in a truly hurtful, deep sense) because they're not targeted by it; they're not forever tied to the history of what it means to be a "nigger".

In close social circles it may just be another word to refer to your friends, but everywhere else it carries a legacy of hatred and pain.

Makes complete sense. Thing I'm having more trouble with is how black on black it doesn't bring up those same feelings. If the idea is to take the power from the word. (Which I think is stupid as fuck as I think it's better to let it fall to history and move on.) Then shouldn't we all take part in stripping it. So long as one group can't use it then the word still holds its terrible power.

 

[GhostTrick]

What about Koreans though ?

 

[Stasis]

In the same breath that you say it isn't about saying what I can or can't do you say I need to never say it.

Mostly I was trying to clear your conscience about being 'racist-light' where I think you mainly just don't like being told what you can or can't do, regardless of the situation. In the same breath I am indeed saying you shouldn't be using the word. Consider it a suggestion rather than a directive. Come to your own logical conclusion based on your life situation.

Would love to continue chatting but I've overstepped my bounds as is, I think, and it's time for sleep!

 

[NoblesseOblige]

What about Koreans though ?

I was so confused the first time I listened to Kpop.

 

[Silphonica]

What about gaelic people?

 

[EstoyBlackWaldo]

Maaan, another one! I thought this was excellent, to especially educate others here. With the way things been going lately I'm surprised it's stayed a calm discussion so far.

 

[Nipo]

Am I allowed to Sing Kendrick Lamar songs to myself when no one is around?

 

[Fantastapotamus]

I love this thread, great work OP

Edit: I'm also whiter than fresh snow

 

[Hyperactivity]

This is hard for me because like I've said I don't even care to use either word. Theoretically speaking if one of my black friends used it and then I used it for some ungodly reason and they corrected me or gave me a look about it I would be put off. I just don't see that it is fair to ok it for one skin tone but not another. I understand that blacks have it terrible compared to whites in America but setting up another cultural fence doesn't help that. Would all this energy be better spent electing official who actually care about blacks and the poor to help even out the playing field?

All that being said I can see how whites that use the words tend to fall into either being huge bigots or thinking they are black.



In the same breath that you say it isn't about saying what I can or can't do you say I need to never say it.

Dude....

I'm going to give you the magic word here: CONTEXT

Believe it or not, you already take thiis into account in your day to day conversations. Do you consider it strange if someone you dont know addressed you by a nickname only people in your family address you by? Do you take issue with the fact that you address seniors formally as Mr. or Ms.? Do you somehow not take context into account in your day to day life?

Now, think for a moment what the context of the n-word is:

1) From other races to blacks: Historically used as a racially charged insult; used to demean or attempt to provoke African-Americans, not a nice word, right?

2) From the mouth of a black person: Has gained a new context, to identify a common friendly bond between the people who were addressed by the insult, in a sort of "What do I care if I'm a n*****, theres nothing WRONG about being black."

So, say you're not black, and you say that word.

1) Historical context identifies you with the first situation at first glance, thus making you look like a bigot.

2) You're simply an idiot that doesn't understand basic context and history but still will go against the general D.O.N.T. rule for some reason or the other.

3) You're willfully ignorant and thus a mix of both scenarios.

The history of the word's usage and context in that usage is what dictates the standard here, There was not grand meeting of black leaders where they decided collectively that you had to be black to say the word, it's just the simple fact that if YOU say the word, people are going to assume you mean something VERY different by it.

 

[Jimmyfenix]

this might be more effective if it was posted in the FGC thread instead of in OT

Someone should really just post this thread there.

 

[Peter Ian Staker]

A learned the proper etiquette from Chris Rock

 

[Lil'DigiOp]

I always ask people WHY they want to say it... It usually is some vain "me too" symptom and has nothing to do with respecting black people.

 

[Maz]

I was called a sand nigger once, fun times. Do I meet the minimum requirement to use the n-word now?

To be honest I never felt the need to use the word, it just doesnt feel right. Oh and I moved out of the us when I was a teen, not a lot of black people around these parts of the world.

 

[The Kree]

I was called a sand nigger once, fun times. Do I meet the minimum requirement to use the n-word now?

To be honest I never felt the need to use the word, it just doesnt feel right. Oh and I moved out of the us when I was a teen, not a lot of black people around these parts of the world.

I think you also have to have been called a dune coon.

No, I did not just make that one up.

 

[Galbir]

Addressed context already.

Look I'm going to get a ton of shit about this but I strongly feel that stupid societal norms like this do nothing but further separate the races from themselves. Ideally I would prefer a race neutral world but this is too idealistic I know. Every time I enter these threads it seems like it's us vs them instead of us against the idiots that kill young kids, blame entire groups for terrorism, or are flat out racist. I am white, I hate trump, bigots, and both of those words.

 

[moggio]

Are there any good examples of white people using "nigger" in a context used to express an idea that is historical/satirical/whatever in ultimately positive or thought provoking way?

An example I might use is the Frank Zappa song Nig Biz:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUI5GDhd4jk

Spoiler

I signed on the line
For seven long years
They said I'd be a big star
They said I'd get a big car
All the coke I could toot
All the dope I could shoot
All the smoke I could smoke
But now I'm beat up 'n broke

They said I oughta re-record
The tracks of my tears
They said: "Hey! This is it!
It's gonna be a big hit"
With my name up in lights
And some custom-made tights
All the girls call my name
But it was all just a game

Nigger Biznis
Nigger Biznis
Well, Nigger Biznis all the time
Well, Nigger Biznis has brought destruction
On top of this here heart of mine

(Well, now's the time to play the blues!)

Well, one day that contract will expire
One day I will be free
From that Nig-ger, Nig-gig-gig-ger, Nigger Biznis Office
Nigger Biznis Office representing me
Nigger Biznis, Nigger Biznis
Oh, Nigger Biznis all the time, all along
Well, Nigger Biznis has brought disaster
Which is why you're hearin' this song

 

[The Kree]

Addressed context already.

Look I'm going to get a ton of shit about this but I strongly feel that stupid societal norms like this do nothing but further separate the races from themselves. Ideally I would prefer a race neutral world but this is too idealistic I know. Every time I enter these threads it seems like it's us vs them instead of us against the idiots that kill young kids, blame entire groups for terrorism, or are flat out racist. I am white, I hate trump, bigots, and both of those words.

No, this doesn't further separate us. Black people don't actually have the power to enforce separatism. They can't move into new neighborhoods without inspiring white flight, and they can't keep their own neighborhoods without eventually suffering from gentrification. This is really low on the list of societal double standards that need to be addressed. Super low. Like, so low on the list it's not even on the paper with the other items on the list. It's something you'll have to add to the list after you've scratched off the first five thousand items to make room to put more stuff on the list. Settling this doesn't even begin to balance the scales of race relations. This is little more than an afterthought on the final frontier of the non-black experience, a primer on how not to get punched in the mouth, a cautionary lesson. This is actually nothing to you.

 

[EstoyBlackWaldo]

Well.. That happened fast.

 

[Mrs. Manky]

Thank you very much OP, for an amazing thread. I hope that people will find it informative.

 

[DeadPhoenix]

As a half black kid, I never had a problem with my white ass friends saying it. As long a
No one used it in a negative connotation it never bothered me or my brothers... But then there was probably a very real possibility that was some weird thing we did to make our shelves feel more black since our black relatives all lived on the otherside of the country, except our Mom and older sister. In my case at least I never actual used it with my black friends though, even the one who was also half black(you couldn't tell from looking, unlike my brothers who, well... One time a guy asked me what I was because it's hard to tell with us even from up close) just because I just never felt the need too.

Not sure where I'm even going with this. I guess I just don't care as long as you are not being a racist ass hole. Probably an unpopular opinion, but I'm not about to fight to defend it ethier.

 

[Dr. Benton Quest]

I call basically everyone 'bud'.

I've often worried it might be offensive in some way to people of color. Advice?

 

[Dereck]

great thread OP, i'll add my experiences

some Black people don't use the word and I've interacted with these people on a regular basis, here's my own personal rule.

I will not call another Black person the word unless I hear them call me the word first, that breaks the ice, otherwise, I won't use it.

some minorities that get close to you (if you're Black), may end up saying it if you tend to use it around them. if you use it around them frequently don't be surprised if you rub off on them a little bit inadvertently. in any case though, they probably still shouldn't be using the word

 

[Enzom21]

I always ask people WHY they want to say it... It usually is some vain "me too" symptom and has nothing to do with respecting black people.

I see it as "I'm not going to let some nigger tell me what I can or can't say."
From my experience, for non-blacks who say it, "nigga" turns into "nigger" real quick when a black person does something that they don't like.

Addressed context already.

Look I'm going to get a ton of shit about this but I strongly feel that stupid societal norms like this do nothing but further separate the races from themselves. Ideally I would prefer a race neutral world but this is too idealistic I know. Every time I enter these threads it seems like it's us vs them instead of us against the idiots that kill young kids, blame entire groups for terrorism, or are flat out racist. I am white, I hate trump, bigots, and both of those words.

Do you not get that you're complaining about not being able to use a racial slur free of consequence and how ridiculous that is?
No one is actually stopping you from saying nigger, by the way. You just can't say it free of consequence. Why does that bother you so much?
Things must be pretty damn good for you if that is the type of inequality that is plaguing your life.

 

[EstoyBlackWaldo]

I call basically everyone 'bud'.

I've often worried it might be offensive in some way to people of color. Advice?

I don't know about others but I use bud negatively. Like when I want to cut a conversation sort I'll start calling someone bud. "Alright bud. Gotcha bud." tone sells it. Not sure if that makes sense or not. So if you're using it in a general tone I'm sure it's fine.

 

[Galbir]

No, this doesn't further separate us. Black people don't actually have the power to enforce separatism. They can't move into new neighborhoods without inspiring white flight, and they can't keep their own neighborhoods without eventually suffering from gentrification. This is really low on the list of societal double standards that need to be addressed. Super low. Like, so low on the list it's not even on the paper with the other items on the list. It's something you'll have to add to the list after you've scratched off the first five thousand items to make room to put more stuff on the list. Settling this doesn't even begin to balance the scales of race relations. This is little more than an afterthought on the final frontier of the non-black experience, a primer on how not to get punched in the mouth, a cautionary lesson. This is actually nothing to you.

It's like you haven't seen any of my previous posts about how this seems like a spec compared to the other issues. I expected this of gaf though. This place has always been an echo chamber unable to think a little bit different than the way the tide pulls. I'm done here have fun patting each other on the back for putting whitey in his place about what words are appropriate to keep him from getting "punched in the mouth".

 

[The Kree]

It's like you haven't seen any of my previous posts about how this seems like a spec compared to the other issues. I expected this of gaf though. This place has always been an echo chamber unable to think a little bit different than the way the tide pulls. I'm done here have fun patting each other on the back for putting whitey in his place about what words are appropriate to keep him from getting "punched in the mouth".

My name is not GAF and I don't follow your posting career. I'm not sorry that you feel oppressed here.

 

[Big Baybee]

It's like you haven't seen any of my previous posts about how this seems like a spec compared to the other issues. I expected this of gaf though. This place has always been an echo chamber unable to think a little bit different than the way the tide pulls. I'm done here have fun patting each other on the back for putting whitey in his place about what words are appropriate to keep him from getting "punched in the mouth".

So oppressed. Hope you can recover.

 

[Septic360]

Not gonna lie...as a non-black guy, my struggle is real. 'Black culture' is so part and parcel of me. From the music I listen to, to the movies I watch and to my friends and general company, sometimes I forget about the whole race thing.

To an extent, I feel like purposely avoiding those taboo words etc forces my interaction to be more artificial than it has to be. But then again, my interaction should go past beyond using the word nigga so there's that.

I like how black people have taken command of the word from racists. But at the same time I also know some black mates who dont like the word and kinda over-stepped the boundary. So I tend to use the n word with my mates who aren't black or black mates who are very close to our circle.

Best thing to do is really avoid using it. If it has a chance to be disrespectful, the 'benefits' of using the word aren't out-weighed by the potential to cause offence.


But seriously..WTF AM I SUPPOSED TO DO IF I GO TO AN ASAP MOB CONCERT?! And they call me on stage...my greatest FEAR O_O

 

[strafer]

Cant help it when I'm listening to Dr Dre or 2pac

 

[Enzom21]

It's like you haven't seen any of my previous posts about how this seems like a spec compared to the other issues. I expected this of gaf though. This place has always been an echo chamber unable to think a little bit different than the way the tide pulls. I'm done here have fun patting each other on the back for putting whitey in his place about what words are appropriate to keep him from getting "punched in the mouth".

Ah there it is... true feelings come out when you don't get to say nigger free of consequence.
Who is this GAF person by the way?

Cant help it when I'm listening to Dr Dre or 2pac

Sure you can. Would you say that shit in front of black people you don't know?

 

[Dereck]

Cant help it when I'm listening to Dr Dre or 2pac

 

[EstoyBlackWaldo]

It's like you haven't seen any of my previous posts about how this seems like a spec compared to the other issues. I expected this of gaf though. This place has always been an echo chamber unable to think a little bit different than the way the tide pulls. I'm done here have fun patting each other on the back for putting whitey in his place about what words are appropriate to keep him from getting "punched in the mouth".

Can't even fathom where the nonsense begins and ends with this passive-aggressiveness.