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[Mr Reasonable]

Isn't the generally accepted situation that most people who have a series S think it's a good machine, while those who don't have one think it's a bad machine that can't play games, and it's holding the developers back in a way that the steam deck isn't (well, those around here maybe)?

Meanwhile Microsoft say that they're bringing new people to their brand with the machine.

And it remains the least expensive way to play next gen games costing around half the other consoles.

Aside from the people who don't have one and say it's terrible, it seems like it's been a success in a number of ways.

 

[Coconutt]

I think the Series S was a terrible decision. Seems super restrictive for developers having to worry about making games work on weaker hardware. Just save up the money and get the series X

 

[Bojji]

No it won't, low end PC specs will continue to be the lowest spec due to sheer numbers of gamers still playing on a 1060, 1650 and mobile 3050/3060.

Developers dont care about what is the most popular GPU in PC space. Once they target "next gen" consoles with their games all requirements move up. Pc gamers will have to upgrade their hardware, just like they always did.

 

[Banjo64]

Isn't the generally accepted situation that most people who have a series S think it's a good machine, while those who don't have one think it's a bad machine that can't play games, and it's holding the developers back in a way that the steam deck isn't (well, those around here maybe)?

Meanwhile Microsoft say that they're bringing new people to their brand with the machine.

And it remains the least expensive way to play next gen games costing around half the other consoles.

Aside from the people who don't have one and say it's terrible, it seems like it's been a success in a number of ways.

Living up to your name with that reasonable take.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

MS already won publisher of the year in 2021 and will win again this year. Sony’s only AAA first party game this year is Spider-Man 2.

All MS has to do is stay the course and keep buying more studios. Keep growing Xbox library while at the same time shrinking PlayStation library

Ignorance is bliss huh?

MS would trade a back-to-back publisher of the year award for back-to-back releases of GOWR and SM2. I mean, what has their winning publisher of the year done for them? If you ask them now, give up your publisher of the year for the sales that PS5 has enjoyed, what do you think they take?

Anyways, gonna assume you are just joking.

 

[cireza]

Most people who want an Xbox console are clearly spending the extra $200 on the Series X

And can we have a source for that ? Because I thought that the split between S/X was pretty close to 50/50, which certainly makes a great argument in favor of the budget model.

 

[DarthPutin]

Can't answer the question since not enough information. Since other consoles fly from the shelves and S is still in abundance, it suggests lower demand. But maybe it just moves slower because enthusiasts are first buyers and they want good specs.

Anyway, I think it creates inconsistent messaging:
Switch: It's all about games! And portability! And games! (Also cheap!) The rest is irrelevant.
PS5: Hot Premium Product! AAA graphics! Come get us (with or without disk). Apple of gaming!
XBOX: Even MORE Premium Product! Better specs, same price! Eat monsters for breakfast!!!... Actually, forget about it, who cares, here is cheap gimped version, let's face it, your ass is broke anyway.

Personally I like how it looks) The best looking console.

 

[bluecowboys]

Anyways, gonna assume you are just joking.

More games made by their studios equals more content for game pass equals more subscribers.

Also, MS games sell well too. In fact their was a thread on NeoGAF where Forza horizon and sea of thieves sold more than God of war on steam and played more too.

 

[THE DUCK]

Developers dont care about what is the most popular GPU in PC space. Once they target "next gen" consoles with their games all requirements move up. Pc gamers will have to upgrade their hardware, just like they always did.

That hasn't been the case for quite a long time now. They care about sales and the modern day market is no longer just cutting edge adapters buying $1000 gpu's.

 

[phant0m]

Big fan of my XSS. It’s a secondary console to my PS5 but has been great for Game Pass and it kills as an emulation station. Plus it’s super portable to boot, very easy to chuck in a backpack.

 

[crackajack]

I'd say Sony with the exact same thing would have performed a lot better. Some people who could not get a real PS5 would have opted for this low end alternative, which still would be somewhere around Pro. Sony could have started equipping their PS Now service with that unit and allow next gen access in that way. It would have helped a lot battling the higher demand Sony faced. Loyal MS fans are probably going with the proper next-gen thing. People switching probably get the proper next gen thing as well. The S is for a mass market that has mostly only Sony on their radar. Hence PS4s and Pros practically sold out, even used is listed for crazy prices.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

I'd say Sony with the exact same thing would have performed a lot better. Some people who could not get a real PS5 would have opted for this low end alternative, which still would be somewhere around Pro. Sony could have started equipping their PS Now service with that unit and allow next gen access in that way. It would have helped a lot battling the higher demand Sony faced. Loyal MS fans are probably going with the proper next-gen thing. People switching probably get the proper next gen thing as well. The S is for a mass market that has mostly only Sony on their radar. Hence PS4s and Pros practically sold out, even used is listed for crazy prices.

But Sony wouldn't do that because the strategy is to keep supporting the PS4. They are trying to cut back on the number of SKUs so that they have better production efficiency, anyone who can't afford a PS5 can stay with PS4 for a long time and that was the idea.

Xbox on the other hand, try to abandon the previous gen as fast as possible. Thus having to make Series S when XboxOne could have done the job.

 

[drganon]

Ignorance is bliss huh?

MS would trade a back-to-back publisher of the year award for back-to-back releases of GOWR and SM2. I mean, what has their winning publisher of the year done for them? If you ask them now, give up your publisher of the year for the sales that PS5 has enjoyed, what do you think they take?

Anyways, gonna assume you are just joking.

He's most likely serious, but also stupid.

As for the topic at hand, it remains to be seen. Personally, I think it's a waste of money and you're better off just saving up a little more and getting an x instead.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

I do understand what Microsoft was going for with the S, but imo it should of had the same architecture and power of the Series X minus the disc drive if they are going for digital only. I’m thinking it would of been easier on the developers and probably even a tad less confusing for consumers. I think it also separated the market for Microsoft because developers know they have to always create another version of the game to run on the S as well as the X.

 

[crackajack]

But Sony wouldn't do that because the strategy is to keep supporting the PS4.

A PS5 S would still have been miles better than also doing PS4 support so long. eg Cyberpunk not running well at all and some load times are just ridiculous with a PS4 (eg Metro Exodus loads 6 minutes!).
The shortages to that extend were unplannable but let's say halving every PS5 chip, allocating the same wafers for this, and offering some Pro+ like Upgrade to then partially double the players would have been better than not being to sell anything modern to them.
Less SKUs would have made the current rumor of detachable drives very very late. Using any external BR-drive or even a PS4 or PS3 as the drive is probably very much possible if Sony wanted to. Offering simple dumb solutions is a necessity though, so we get sold the practically very same drive generations in a row and it might finally stop if tis arrives.
A Sony S could have helped stopping the long support of the PS4. Theoretically doing the opposite what the S is supposedly doing for MS, where people pretend its support is slowing things down. No one is asking for Xbone versions and MS is just doing some lip service support because they have to do some unimportant bits longer than Sony to have some benefits beyond GP! GP! GP! But the Xbone died some time ago, but the PS4 is still being used widely and people are eagerly adapting now availability slowly rises. We could have had millions more on a stop gap iteration already. I certainly would have bought one, just for load times alone and nothing else improved.

 

[ReBurn]

Series S is a good option for casual gamers. Its good to see options that lower the cost of entry to the hobby.

 

[Beechos]

Yeah i think so. Alot of people who never had xbox have gotten it as a gamepass machine and for emulation. So far nothing released has really brought the series s to its knees.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Why not? People have bought the system, it lowers the point of entry, and gives them a lower spec profile that could be quite useful down the road. They may have over prioritized it a bit as far as production goes, but they are convinced that it will be the best selling unit of the gen, where I figure the X variant ultimately wins out.

When people say "they should have dropped the disk drive instead", it's always funny to me because that is an unimportant change. If they want to release a diskless XSX at $399, they could literally do that tomorrow. A potential portable series down the line that utilizes the XSS profile is a lot more interesting.

 

[onnextflix5]

well it’s been 2 years, series s has not exactly set sales records, clearly most don’t want it, no matter how cheap it is, they want the best, not second best,

Xbox is clearly declining from last gen, it would have been a bloodbath without series s, so I guess it helped, they need to focus on games, it’s only thing that’s going to help them.

 

[Interfectum]

It was a terrible decision unless they convert the Series S to a portable. Then all of a sudden every next gen game is available on the go natively. That would be a pretty cool move... though not sure if it's even possible.

 

[hinch7]

Its a double edged sword.. on one hand its great to have a lower bar of entry for consumers to get something to play.

On the other with the restricted specs; particuarly the fairly low storage and pricey, proprietary storage expansion.. its not as appealing as it first looks. And when you look at the whole package as it feels like a compromised mid-range console that someone would only need to spend couple hundred more (or less in some regions) get a way better experience. The Series S feels like a budget console, or a upsell console to the proper Xbox of this generation - the Series X.

Plus the impact of having more SKU's will put more pressure on dev's as well. And seeing as how long games take to release these days, I'd rather both Sony and Microsoft kept their SKU's to a minimum.

 

[nightmare-slain]

Of course it was. It's been in stock since launch. Some people will think "Lol nobody wanted it that's why!" but for a long time it was the only next gen console you could easily buy AND it's cheap. It was £100-150 cheaper than the cheapest PS5 (if you could find one at retail price). It is even cheaper than a Switch except the Lite model.

Sony should've released a PS5-S instead of the stupid all digital edition which was only like £100 cheaper than the standard model. They really shot themselves in the foot there. Don't tell me that a weaker and cheaper PS5 at £200-250 wouldn't have done well lol.

 

[ManaByte]

People who actually own a XSS seem to love it. People who will never own a XSS seem very concerned about it.

Picked one up right around Christmas as an upstairs console and I love it. Save syncing between the big boy XSX and the XSS is great as I can quickly pick up where left off on the smaller console.

 

[ManaByte]

Sony should've released a PS5-S instead of the stupid all digital edition which was only like £100 cheaper than the standard model. They really shot themselves in the foot there. Don't tell me that a weaker and cheaper PS5 at £200-250 wouldn't have done well lol.

100%. If Sony releases a PS5 Slim digital only console made for 1080p instead of 4K for $299 like the XSS, I'd buy one Day 0 to go next to my XSS.

 

[Torrent of Pork]

Count me in for somebody who would have probably picked up a PS5 S at $249 for the few Sony exclusives that interest me. Playing them at 1080p/30 is no biggie.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

An enthusiast forum is not the right place to ask, there's people here who upgrade their gpus yearly.
If it sold, then it was probably a smart move.

 

[AngelMuffin]

I think it was a bad decision as far as multiplatform games because they all have to run on this thing that only has 8GBs of ram and the memory is very slow

Scaling will help with some things but not others

Thought it had 10gb total RAM?

 

[AngelMuffin]

I think so. Just wait till they mark it down to $199 this Holiday season. Going to fly off the shelves.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Thought it had 10gb total RAM?

Basically 8 usable for games, the other 2 are a meager 56GB/s

 

[ManaByte]

Basically 8 usable for games, the other 2 are a meager 56GB/s

I think you're missing that the console is running stuff at 1080/1440 and isn't made for pushing 4K or 4K assets.

 

[Hobbygaming]

I think you're missing that the console is running stuff at 1080/1440 and isn't made for pushing 4K or 4K assets.

It's bigger than just resolution scaling. From day 1 developers have to design around the S

 

[asdasdasdbb]

It's bigger than just resolution scaling. From day 1 developers have to design around the S

It does have the same CPU basically and I think you could very easily get away with 30 fps and half texture size along with cutting the resolution.

You'd think that would get them most of the way there?

 

[Three]

Isn't the generally accepted situation that most people who have a series S think it's a good machine, while those who don't have one think it's a bad machine that can't play games, and it's holding the developers back in a way that the steam deck isn't (well, those around here maybe)?

Aside from the people who don't have one and say it's terrible, it seems like it's been a success in a number of ways.

I don't think this tells you anything though. The people who think it's a good idea and like it would obviously buy one and those who don't won't. I've also seen people buy it and not like it enough to end up selling it and people not liking it but being gifted it and ending up liking it.

Obviously those who don't like it won't have one though unless they are masochists so I'm not sure what that tells you.

 

[jroc74]

Before recently I woulda said yeah it was a smart move.....for MS's goals. Anyone thinking it alone was gonna cause a shift or dent in PlayStation mindshare were looking at some crystal ball stuff.

Thinking about ppl saying Sony were gonna be shook because the PS5 was gonna be between the Series S and X in price and power....fun times. That was before the PS5 DE was announced and ppl thought 1 single sku PS5 was gonna be $399.

....The PS4, Pro was right in the middle of the One S and One X with price and power...and look how that turned out.... The One X didn't cause a massive shift.

Now? With the Series S not flying off shelves that some predicted because holiday, cheap and Game Pass machine....I dont know....

 

[VAVA Mk2]

Nope

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

I hate the idea of the Series S. I can't see how it won't hold back what this gen will be able to achieve. Between cross gen and Series s, this entire gen will be tethered to weak machines

 

[EverydayBeast]

Series s is ridiculous imagine a PS5 series S. A pro version will exist if a PlayStation but a “weaker” version will never happen.

 

[Hobbygaming]

It does have the same CPU basically and I think you could very easily get away with 30 fps and half texture size along with cutting the resolution.

You'd think that would get them most of the way there?

We were already at a deficit when we only got a 2x increase of ram this time instead of 8x. The Xbox Series S has very slow ram and the same amount as last gen. Yes the modules are different and yes there's bandwidth "multipliers" with SFS and the SSDs but we have yet to see if SFS will be utilized by most developers this gen or if it is even worth implementing in most games

Some things can't be scaled down easy and take a lot more work like physical based materials, geometry, GI, etc. These things will be paired back by many teams because of the S

 

[DaGwaphics]

Basically 8 usable for games, the other 2 are a meager 56GB/s

56GB/s for the OS stuff is still better than the standard DDR setup on a PC or notebook, shouldn't really be a problem for them.

 

[Hobbygaming]

56GB/s for the OS stuff is still better than the standard DDR setup on a PC or notebook, shouldn't really be a problem for them.

Only 8GBs with a little over 6GBs for the most important stuff and under 2GBs for your buffers, textures, etc is pretty dire when you consider we should be getting more demanding games soon

I'm not talking about the OS reserve, I was just explaining why it's only 8GBs and not 10GBs for games to the last person

 

[Mr Moose]

I think it was a great move. People who remotely understand the word "DDR5" (or really care about games) will pony up extra to get Series X.
And lots and lots of people who can't even distinguish between graphics or high/low fps can go opt for Xbox S because its cheaper (when shopping by their gradmas?)

MS just wish there wasn't people like Gaf/IGN/Tech that keeps comparing the two consoles because in truth, Series S was meant to give people gimped game versions because at lower price the buyers don't give a sh*t.

None of them use DDR5.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Dumb question.

Series X stock has had production issues and XBS sales have relied mostly on the S and it's deals since it's widely available.

If the Series S wasn't there I'm not even sure that Series X may have sold-through 8 million units by now. Phil and the gang really screwed up managing how the production went ahead on the X. Likely Nadella would have freaked out and pulled the plug if there was no S to stall for time.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Isn't the generally accepted situation that most people who have a series S think it's a good machine, while those who don't have one think it's a bad machine that can't play games, and it's holding the developers back in a way that the steam deck isn't (well, those around here maybe)?

Meanwhile Microsoft say that they're bringing new people to their brand with the machine.

And it remains the least expensive way to play next gen games costing around half the other consoles.

Aside from the people who don't have one and say it's terrible, it seems like it's been a success in a number of ways.

This.

It fine for what it was built to do. It’s a cheap Gamepass machine for families or to sit next to your ps5 or whatever.

 

[ReBurn]

People who actually own a XSS seem to love it. People who will never own a XSS seem very concerned about it.

Picked one up right around Christmas as an upstairs console and I love it. Save syncing between the big boy XSX and the XSS is great as I can quickly pick up where left off on the smaller console.

This is exactly what I love about it. Play Anywhere and Smart Delivery really enable a seamless ecosystem and XSS is a great part of it.

I got a free XSS during the GameStop BOGO debacle and I have It hooked up to a 1080p TV in my office. The Series X and PS5 are on the 75" TV in my media room upstairs. When I want a distraction from work I'll play on the Series S and when I get more time to play I go upstairs to the XSX and I can just pick right up and keep going without a hitch.

I have a PS4 in my office and I do the same thing with it and the PS5 to a limited degree, but I'm locked into playing the PS4 version of games on PS5 to be able to share saves. I've considered getting a digital PS5 for my office but I'm having a hard time justifying the $400 expense just because I want to make wasting my time easier. You can buy a Series S from Microsoft for $250 bucks. If there was a $250 lower spec PS5 that targeted what XSS targets I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

 

[killatopak]

If it sold better than X then yes. If not then no.

The whole thing was marketed at the casual and naturally would have sold more if so. It’s been three years so the time when enthusiast dominate the sales chart has sailed.

 

[TheGodfather07]

It was a smart move because Microsoft are losing even more ground with a cheap model. So how much worse would it be if they never had that option? It was a good move to slow down the rot. Microsoft ain't stupid. They knew they were facing an uphill battle this generation and that's proving to be the case right now. It was a necessary move.

 

[Gobjuduck]

It was a great move. Not all people are willing to spend 500 on a console. It’s probably the main reason Xbox had good hardware numbers over Sony for a half a dozen months.

As for it “holding back gaming” there has been no evidence of this outside of a few idiot devs who don’t know what they are talking about before deleting their tweets. The series s has been able to scale down really well.

 

[Shubh_C63]

None of them use DDR5.

By DDR5 I meant tech savvy words and knowledge man. Chances that a guy who doesn't know what RAM means could care less about what he is missing out on graphics and settle/opt for Series S. Damn was this that confusing.

 

[Gobjuduck]

Xbox is clearly declining from last gen

What?

PlayStation 5 was the only one trailing behind the previous gen. It will likely catch up late 2023.

Xbox is still doing very well, they just had an awful quarter in the EU. Don’t make assumptions on one region, ever. Xbox is strong in the US, always has been.

 

[Valkyria]

It's a great second room console!

Those who disagree are probably poor and don't have a second gaming room.

Or you are just too poor to buy 2 Series X.