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NYT & Vox: the Republicans architected their own doom fifty years ago (read this)

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This thread is about two articles I just read. The thread title is mine, and sums up (too succinctly) the articles.

You need to read them.

Vox: A Republican intellectual explains why the Republican Party is going to die

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The conservative movement has something of a founding myth — Roy calls it an “origin story.”

In 1955, William F. Buckley created the intellectual architecture of modern conservatism by founding National Review, focusing on a free market, social conservatism, and a muscular foreign policy. Buckley’s ideals found purchase in the Republican Party in 1964, with the nomination of Barry Goldwater. While Goldwater lost the 1964 general election, his ideas eventually won out in the GOP, culminating in the Reagan Revolution of 1980.

Normally, Goldwater’s defeat is spun as a story of triumph: how the conservative movement eventually righted the ship of an unprincipled GOP. But according to Roy, it’s the first act of a tragedy.

“Goldwater’s nomination in 1964 was a historical disaster for the conservative movement,” Roy tells me, “because for the ensuing decades, it identified Democrats as the party of civil rights and Republicans as the party opposed to civil rights.”

Goldwater opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964. He himself was not especially racist — he believed it was wrong, on free market grounds, for the federal government to force private businesses to desegregate. But this “principled” stance identified the GOP with the pro-segregation camp in everyone’s eyes, while the Democrats under Lyndon Johnson became the champions of anti-racism.

This had a double effect, Roy says. First, it forced black voters out of the GOP. Second, it invited in white racists who had previously been Democrats. Even though many Republicans voted for the Civil Rights Act in Congress, the post-Goldwater party became the party of aggrieved whites.

“The fact is, today, the Republican coalition has inherited the people who opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 — the Southern Democrats who are now Republicans,” Roy says. “Conservatives and Republicans have not come to terms with that problem.”

The available evidence compiled by historians and political scientists suggests that 1964 really was a pivotal political moment, in exactly the way Roy describes.

Yet Republican intellectuals have long denied this, fabricating a revisionist history in which Republicans were and always have been the party of civil rights. In 2012, National Review ran a lengthy cover story arguing that the standard history recounted by Roy was “popular but indefensible.”

This revisionism, according to Roy, points to a much bigger conservative delusion: They cannot admit that their party’s voters are motivated far more by white identity politics than by conservative ideals.

“Conservative intellectuals, and conservative politicians, have been in kind of a bubble,” Roy says. “We’ve had this view that the voters were with us on conservatism — philosophical, economic conservatism. In reality, the gravitational center of the Republican Party is white nationalism.”


NYTimes: How the ‘Stupid Party’ Created Donald Trump

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It’s hard to know exactly when the Republican Party assumed the mantle of the “stupid party.”

Stupidity is not an accusation that could be hurled against such prominent early Republicans as Abraham Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, Elihu Root and Charles Evans Hughes. But by the 1950s, it had become an established shibboleth that the “eggheads” were for Adlai Stevenson and the “boobs” for Dwight D. Eisenhower — a view endorsed by Richard Hofstadter’s 1963 book “Anti-Intellectualism in American Life,” which contrasted Stevenson, “a politician of uncommon mind and style, whose appeal to intellectuals overshadowed anything in recent history,” with Eisenhower — “conventional in mind, relatively inarticulate.” The John F. Kennedy presidency, with its glittering court of Camelot, cemented the impression that it was the Democrats who represented the thinking men and women of America.

Rather than run away from the anti-intellectual label, Republicans embraced it for their own political purposes. In his “time for choosing” speech, Ronald Reagan said that the issue in the 1964 election was “whether we believe in our capacity for self-government or whether we abandon the American Revolution and confess that a little intellectual elite in a far-distant Capitol can plan our lives for us better than we can plan them ourselves.” Richard M. Nixon appealed to the “silent majority” and the “hard hats,” while his vice president, Spiro T. Agnew, issued slashing attacks on an “effete core of impudent snobs who characterize themselves as intellectuals.”

...

There is no evidence that Republican leaders have been demonstrably dumber than their Democratic counterparts. During the Reagan years, the G.O.P. briefly became known as the “party of ideas,” because it harvested so effectively the intellectual labor of conservative think tanks like the American Enterprise Institute and the Heritage Foundation and publications like The Wall Street Journal editorial page and Commentary. Scholarly policy makers like George P. Shultz, Jeane J. Kirkpatrick and Bill Bennett held prominent posts in the Reagan administration, a tradition that continued into the George W. Bush administration — amply stocked with the likes of Paul D. Wolfowitz, John J. Dilulio Jr. and Condoleezza Rice.

In recent years, however, the Republicans’ relationship to the realm of ideas has become more and more attenuated as talk-radio hosts and television personalities have taken over the role of defining the conservative movement that once belonged to thinkers like Irving Kristol, Norman Podhoretz and George F. Will. The Tea Party represented a populist revolt against what its activists saw as out-of-touch Republican elites in Washington.There are still some thoughtful Republican leaders exemplified by House Speaker Paul D. Ryan, who devised an impressive new budget plan for his party. But the primary vibe from the G.O.P. has become one of indiscriminate, unthinking, all-consuming anger.

The trend has now culminated in the nomination of Donald J. Trump, a presidential candidate who truly is the know-nothing his Republican predecessors only pretended to be.
 
We'll see if the Democrats can take advantage of this properly. They seem to be bumbling their way to success lately. Exciting times for sure. I hope we see a new party rise. Would throw everything into the air.
 

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
This passage:

Eisenhower may have played the part of an amiable duffer, but he may have been the best prepared president we have ever had — a five-star general with an unparalleled knowledge of national security affairs.

When he resorted to gobbledygook in public, it was in order to preserve his political room to maneuver. Reagan may have come across as a dumb thespian, but he spent decades honing his views on public policy and writing his own speeches.

Nixon may have burned with resentment of “Harvard men,” but he turned over foreign policy and domestic policy to two Harvard professors, Henry A. Kissinger and Daniel Patrick Moynihan, while his own knowledge of foreign affairs was second only to Ike’s.

Set off alarms for anyone? Anyone?

Eisenhower was by all accounts a good to decent president because he was an honorable and politically gifted man. Nixon tested the foundations of our nation.

How you interpret either being described as 'most prepared ever' and having knowledge of foreign affairs 'second-only' to the most prepared guy ever vis a vis Hillary Clinton is up to you.

I say she's closer to Eisenhower and is a fundamentally honorable person.
 

ElFly

Member
there's a good chance the republicans will stick for a -long- while if the democrats cannot solve the electoral problem that lets the reps take an important, if not dominant, portion of the congress

e: the NYT article is way less interesting, preferring to quickly diverge into donald trump's antics
 
You really have to wonder about conservatives. Their history, message and priorities all indicate one overarching theme, but they continue to lie to us or even to themselves for that matter. The movement is a failure.

To his own shame, Buckley himself couldn't hide his hate on national television, and his prejudice is the same as we see in conservatives today.
 

npm0925

Member
I was watching a documentary on James Garfield, the 20th president and a Republican, last night and was astounded at how far this party has strayed from its roots. Garfield was highly educated (made a college professor in his sophomore year), something of a populist, opposed to the corrupt spoils system, and strongly opposed to racism. Now the GOP is the very embodiment of willful ignorance, unnecessary greed, and racism / xenophobia.
 
Regarding that NYT article, I'm actually unsure which is creepier- the sociopathic think tank scum that funnel pain through inept and totally damaging policy, or the mobs of willfully ignorant instructed and directed by a system that merely uses them in all facets of their existence, happy to destroy "the other".
 
Good reads, thanks.

The Republican who commented in the first article mentioned that he thought it was the end of the GOP and the start of a long era of Democrat domination. I only wish I shared his pessimism.
 
This passage:



Set off alarms for anyone? Anyone?

Eisenhower was by all accounts a good to decent president because he was an honorable and politically gifted man. Nixon tested the foundations of our nation.

How you interpret either being described as 'most prepared ever' and having knowledge of foreign affairs 'second-only' to the most prepared guy ever vis a vis Hillary Clinton is up to you.

I say she's closer to Eisenhower and is a fundamentally honorable person.

Neither are controversial opinions. Eisenhower was the Supreme Commander of Allied Forces in WWII. I can't think of a title or job that would prepare someone to be "Commander-In-Chief" better than that. And while Nixon had deep emotional problems no one would question that on paper he was one of the most prepared candidates to ever run for president. He held quite a bit of sway over domestic policy during Eisenhower's second term, especially in the months leading up to and after Eisenhower's stroke in late 1957. He was one of the most well prepared and "smart" presidents in recent memory.

Hillary being the "most qualified presidential candidate of all time" is nothing more than campaign spin that most historians would scoff at. I see no argument for why she is more qualified than HW Bush, Nixon, or Eisenhower.
 

shintoki

sparkle this bitch
Good reads, thanks.

The Republican who commented in the first article mentioned that he thought it was the end of the GOP and the start of a long era of Democrat domination. I only wish I shared his pessimism.

If they simply laid off the racism, deportation, etc. While keeping their conservative values. They really wouldn't be in a bad spot at all. Even if they kept their homophobic and religious views.
 
If they simply laid off the racism, deportation, etc. While keeping their conservative values. They really wouldn't be in a bad spot at all. Even if they kept their homophobic and religious views.

Well, I think the main point of these articles is that that really isn't true. The things that some people thought was attractive to many GOP voters turned out to be things they didn't care about. Small government isn't what a lot people really wanted. They just liked it because it was a good smokescreen for bigotry.
 

turtle553

Member
I wonder how much legalized abortion has actually helped the republicans stay with this platform. While it is hard to find exact statistics, liberals/democrats being more likely to opt for an abortion has to have kept their numbers down (51M abortions in the US in the last 40 years) if children are more likely to follow their parents political party.
 

kess

Member
I'm on mobile so I can't make a more detailed reply, but the article overlooks that the 1948 election fucked up the Republicans something fierce. The shift really starts in the late 20s, when Hoover lost the black vote in the North and the Democrats nominated Al Smith. From that point forwards the Republicans had less compunction with making electoral alliances with Southern conservative Democrats to block FDR'S domestic and foreign policy initiatives. But the '48 election proved there was a electoral bloc of voters for the taking. Eisenhower provided the religion, Goldwater provided the ideology, and Nixon provided the justification.

FDR's shameful record on Japanese internment obscures the desegregation of the Parks Department under Harold Ickes, Eleanor Roosevelt's civil rights work, and the Supreme Court nominations of civil libertarians like William Douglas and Robert Jackson to the Supreme Court, which presage Truman's desegregation of the military. For the hard core racist, the national party was clearly not to be relied on.
 
I'm on mobile so I can't make a more detailed reply, but the article overlooks that the 1948 election fucked up the Republicans something fierce. The shift really starts in the late 20s, when Hoover lost the black vote in the North and the Democrats nominated Al Smith. From that point forwards the Republicans had less compunction with making electoral alliances with Southern conservative Democrats to block FDR'S domestic and foreign policy initiatives. But the '48 election proved there was a electoral bloc of voters for the taking. Eisenhower provided the religion, Goldwater provided the ideology, and Nixon provided the justification.

In terms of the black vote, the impact of the Great Mississippi Flood of 1927 can't be overlooked.

Republicans have been on a demographic ticking time bomb for quite some time. I'm sure the party will recover eventually of course, it's not like the party will die out; especially not with rust belt states trending red. But we're likely in a transition period during which democrats will have large advantages in general elections under normal circumstances (non scandal, normal economic situation, etc), which republicans cannot overcome without a truly impressive candidate like a Reagan, Clinton, or Obama.

There is a small window during this transition in which republicans could win. I think Rubio or Kasich could have potentially beaten Hillary this year, for instance. Nominating Trump just shrinks that window though.
 
I read the articles and let me know when theocratic wing and the establishment conservatives dissolve the republican party as a whole.

Also let me know when the millienials decide to vote in mid terms.

Crying that the Republican Party will die after Hillary gets elected is one thing, but it actually happening is a totally different thing.

Declaring that the GOP will be in a state of ferocious civil war and that the tea party will be the downfall of the GOP reeks of hysteria imo when Ted Cruz will be in the wings in 2020.

Trump is scary now but wait until Ted Cruz wins the nomination in 2020. Dude is a literal theocratic and will be worse then Trump because he is more disciplined then Trump.

Discussing what has led up to Trump in the GOP's political trajectory is worthless in the big picture. We need to discuss why millienials have no motivation in voting in midterms and discussing how we fix this. We need to discuss how we reform the Democratic party in the future. We need to fix basic voter literacy. We need to talk about inclusiveness in American democracy. We need a functioning government in America. How do we get the GOP to understand this after Hillary gets elected. The GOP will be insane with rage after this election.
 

jay

Member
There is so much apparent overlap between right wing policies with racism and sexism that it's hard to believe that a significant chunk of the Republican intellectuals are actually against those things.
 

StMeph

Member
There is so much apparent overlap between right wing policies with racism and sexism that it's hard to believe that a significant chunk of the Republican intellectuals are actually against those things.

Stop looking at what they're doing and listen to what they're saying.
 
There is so much apparent overlap between right wing policies with racism and sexism that it's hard to believe that a significant chunk of the Republican intellectuals are actually against those things.
Exactly. Its a core tenant of the party, whether it's mentioned aloud or not.
 
Conservative intellectuals, for the most part, are horrified by racism. When they talk about believing in individual rights and equality, they really mean it. Because the Republican Party is the vehicle through which their ideas can be implemented, they need to believe that the party isn’t racist.

I'm pretty sure that this is far, far too generous to the conservative intelligentsia.
 

G.ZZZ

Member
During the Reagan years, the G.O.P. briefly became known as the “party of ideas,” because it harvested so effectively the intellectual labor of conservative think tanks like the American Enterprise Institute and the Heritage Foundation and publications like The Wall Street Journal editorial page and Commentary. Scholarly policy makers like George P. Shultz, Jeane J. Kirkpatrick and Bill Bennett held prominent posts in the Reagan administration, a tradition that continued into the George W. Bush administration — amply stocked with the likes of Paul D. Wolfowitz, John J. Dilulio Jr. and Condoleezza Rice.

So you're telling me that republicans are not in bad faith when they pass policies against the poors and they commit genocide in the middle east, but they're actually bona fide evil.

Well now i'm reassured.
 

Gattsu25

Banned
Read both of the articles. While the NYT article uses the harshest language against the current state of the GOP it also smooths over the history of the party to almost make it seem like the old GOP were a party of hope and unity. The Vox piece offers a better view of good that actually panned out.
 
He expands on this idea: “It’s a common observation on the left, but it’s an observation that a lot of us on the right genuinely believed wasn’t true — which is that conservatism has become, and has been for some time, much more about white identity politics than it has been about conservative political philosophy. I think today, even now, a lot of conservatives have not come to terms with that problem.”

...

For the entire history of modern conservatism, its ideals have been wedded to and marred by white supremacism. That’s Roy’s own diagnosis, and I think it’s correct. As a result, we have literally no experience in America of a politically viable conservative movement unmoored from white supremacy.
On point.
 

Dicktatorship

Junior Member
This is a pretty biased article, but there is some truth in it. Goldwater opened up the floodgates and even came to regret it later in life as Buckley came to see the Bushes bastardize his neoconservative message.
 
I heard an interview today on NPR with the guy who wrote in The Times, really interesting, some truth bit also a fair amount of elitism

I'll read both, thanks OP
 

Acorn

Member
This is a pretty biased article, but there is some truth in it. Goldwater opened up the floodgates and even came to regret it later in life as Buckley came to see the Bushes bastardize his neoconservative message.
Buckley was a gigantic cunt. Fuck him, the fact he's most famous now for getting murdered by Vidal soothes my soul.
 
Neither are controversial opinions. Eisenhower was the Supreme Commander of Allied Forces in WWII. I can't think of a title or job that would prepare someone to be "Commander-In-Chief" better than that. And while Nixon had deep emotional problems no one would question that on paper he was one of the most prepared candidates to ever run for president. He held quite a bit of sway over domestic policy during Eisenhower's second term, especially in the months leading up to and after Eisenhower's stroke in late 1957. He was one of the most well prepared and "smart" presidents in recent memory.

Hillary being the "most qualified presidential candidate of all time" is nothing more than campaign spin that most historians would scoff at. I see no argument for why she is more qualified than HW Bush, Nixon, or Eisenhower.

Fucking thank you. The whole "nobody has ever been this qualified!!!" thing is such marketing hype.
 
[Trump] tapped into something that was latent in the Republican Party and conservative movement — but a lot of people in the conservative movement didn’t notice,” Roy concludes, glumly.

Latent my ass. Even the person they interviewed, who has "come to terms" with the GOP being the racist party, can't actually own up to how prominet it was pre-Trump. It was more "blatant" than "latent", just barely subtle enough for deniability. And, apparently, for self-delusion.
 

kess

Member
Read both of the articles. While the NYT article uses the harshest language against the current state of the GOP it also smooths over the history of the party to almost make it seem like the old GOP were a party of hope and unity. The Vox piece offers a better view of good that actually panned out.

The Vox article repeats the cardinal error that most "what happened to the GOP?" articles repeat, namely, that the Republican party was about, I quote, "free markets and individual liberty." The animating principal of the GOP from its very inception has been pro-business policies, for better or for worse, and free markets as we know them were not necessarily in its founding DNA, as proven by the party's flirtation with tariffs this election and the protectionist policies it was founded upon.

Of course, civil rights are good business, but the real story is that the Republican conception of business rights eventually overrode civil rights, and eventually, that conceit allowed the social wing of the party to immolate the sensible portion of the party. Goldwater provided the match, the torch has been passed from the National Review arguing against democracy in South Africa to the demonization of Muslims by Trump today.
 
Buckley was a gigantic cunt. Fuck him, the fact he's most famous now for getting murdered by Vidal soothes my soul.

I had to look this up, and yeah he got eviscerated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY_nq4tfi24

Followed up on the "It happened in Sharon" line.
http://planetpeschel.com/2008/08/gore-vidal-takes-down-william-f-buckley-1968/

Worse, to support the charge that Buckley was anti-Semitic, Vidal dredged up the vandalism of an Episcopal church in Sharon, Conn., — where the Buckleys lived — in 1944. Police, according to Vidal, found evidence at the Buckley’s house and took into custody three of the Buckley children (whether young William was one of the three was not mentioned). They were found guilty and fined.

The supposed reason behind the vandalism was that the church rector’s wife had sold a house in Sharon to a Jewish family, where a “gentleman’s agreement” was in existence to keep them out. Buckley’s father bitterly opposed the sale, and Vidal believes that Buckley had adopted his father’s prejudices. In the end,

Buckley is not of course a “pro crypto Nazi” in the sense that he is a secret member of the Nazi party (and I respond to Buckley’s charming apology to me with mine to him if anyone thought I was trying to link him to Hitler’s foreign and domestic ventures). But in a larger sense his views are very much those of the founders of the Third Reich who regarded blacks as inferiors, undeclared war as legitimate foreign policy, and the Jews as sympathetic to international communism.
 
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