UnluckyKate
Member
À voté.
Such a lovely day. Enjoy your Sunday in the sun
Such a lovely day. Enjoy your Sunday in the sun
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|OT| French Presidential Elect 2017 - La France est toujours insoumise; Le Pen loses
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Gurgelhals
Member
Are the first projections coming in at 18:00 as usual?
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
Just came back, I went with the En Marche candidate. Everyone was very friendly and in a great mood, it was such a contrast to the tension during the presidential election.
Palette Swap
Member
Voted LREM too. Some of these polls sound way too high, though, and I'm expecting a deflation. Ending up at 400+ seats next week sounds crazy.
I had like 20 candidates here, half of whom were knockoffs of mainstream parties, which made even picking your ballot a complete shitshow.
I had like 20 candidates here, half of whom were knockoffs of mainstream parties, which made even picking your ballot a complete shitshow.
Alx
Member
Official projections at 20:00 (CEST) since that's the time the last stations close. But I guess the usual leaks will happen earlier.
Also yeah, so many candidates, it's almost ridiculous (and for some reason I didn't get all their programs in the mail). Anyway, voted LREM too.
GhostTrick
Banned
I don't know about the results, but I hope Valls loses. :")
Wow, every leader is going to crush Donald Trump's hand now
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Mélenchon's FI and the Communists refused to continue their alliance from the Presidential election so now they have both have their own candidates in the Legislative... This is going to be such a disaster for both of them...
Absolutely. So sad.
This Parliament will have a great legitimacy, no doubt about it.
Eolz
Member
http://www.lemonde.fr/elections-leg...icipation-a-19-24-a-midi_5142228_5076653.html
Seems to be the lowest in 20 years at least yeah.
Wonder if some of those that said "oh no, we need to countervote to push another government for Macron" voted...
Seems to be the lowest in 20 years at least yeah.
Wonder if some of those that said "oh no, we need to countervote to push another government for Macron" voted...
Well if people care about government legitimacy they should vote.
I'm thinking at least some of it is the overwhelming majority LREM is predicted to get by the polls - either Macron's opponents are staying home, or his supporters are because they think he has it in the bag. Or hell, both.
What it won't change is policies and that's what matters.
We already had a grasp of the authoritarian approach on interior matters (strong anti-refugees stance and policy ; extraordinary powers granted to the administration "agianst terrorism", putting aside the judiciary power and basic principales of our Constitutions) or social ones (first relegating the Parliament to voting for/against something made up by the government without any possibility to amend it ; and the bottom of the topic is the same as what Sarkozy and Hollande did (deregulation basically)). Diplomacy-wise it's more of the same. Oh yeah the only field they changed is Education : they went backwards to what Sarkozy did thanks to having the chief executive of the Ministry back in 2007-2012. Also they did continue to threaten journalists and at the same time they kept several ministers stuck in financial scandals.
The renewal has its limits : a new political elite replaced half of the old one but that's it. Sad, but they'll face the street and see their ratings fall soon enough.
Here we go again at blaming the people. Most generic reaction I read in every political thread. It clearly shows a lack of critical mind, and some kind of blindness to be honest. Ask yourself what is the responsability of the context, the campaign, the institutions and structures that revolve around our society - and how it is represented in a Parliament where 70% of the seats could be given to 23% (!) of the people's choice in the first round of the présidentielle, what a diversity of opinions, SHAME ON YOU PEOPLE WHO DON'T CARE. That's how you reflect and try to understand a situation. Other's it's just café du commerce.
From what I've read it's mostly a very high turnout for Macron's electorate and medium to low for his opponent's electorates (abstention différentielle in pollster vocabulary). As for their reasons not to vote : yes they believe he'll win anyway and they have no chance, they don't want a cohabitation or even want to see what he'll do because why not since he didn't make any big misstep since his election ; that kind of reason.
There's clearly an issue with the législatives being 1 month after the two-round présidentielle. Another instutitionnal loophole that needs to be fixed (and won't be in the next 5 years as we've seen the low ambition Macron has on the reform of instutions - hell he doesn't even about the very core of the Parliament's role with the ordonnances).
Voted for the mouvement des progressistes (the Robert Hue party). Where I vote, it'll likely be between PS and LREM, I would have voted PS but I really don't like the candidate. No pirate party candidate, no #mavoix, so...
If I had to blame someone for the low turnout, it would be the mainstream parties. Left goes "Macron is right-wing", right goes "Macron is left-wing". Great platform.
If I had to blame someone for the low turnout, it would be the mainstream parties. Left goes "Macron is right-wing", right goes "Macron is left-wing". Great platform.
harriet the spy
Member
Nah. It will be a disaster for communists only I think. Vote utile will skewer their vote in favor of FI
Ghostandgoblin
Member
With your logic the people are not voting because 70% of the parliament is from EM, a party that gathered only 23% of the votes on the first round. But 70% of the parliament is from EM because a good chunk of the people are not even trying to vote for something else.
If you're not happy with the situation you go and vote blank, you don't stay at home waiting for the storm to pass. The law from 2014 clearly defines the vote blanc as something else from not voting at all or a nul.
Palette Swap
Member
With the current rules being what they are, it seems counterproductive to not vote if you really want to diminish LREM's performance, if only because more voters would lower the barrier to entry to the run-off.
(This isn't a political comment so much as it is one on utility, mind you)
(This isn't a political comment so much as it is one on utility, mind you)
Green Yoshi
Member
390 -430 seats for Republique En Marche.
A landslide. Wow.
A landslide. Wow.
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
Well, geez, very impressive results for Macron.
But as a former miltant for the PS, oh boy... "They're dead, Jim."
But as a former miltant for the PS, oh boy... "They're dead, Jim."
Palette Swap
Member
Curious to see the exact results to see how badly FN performed. Sub-14% nationally is an utter failure for them.
Pecresse complaining about a one party assembly and one party government. I don't disagree, but you know, Val, that's textbook Gaullism.
Pecresse complaining about a one party assembly and one party government. I don't disagree, but you know, Val, that's textbook Gaullism.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Communists are HUGE in Seine St Denis.
Here my Communist MP had the support of FI so no problem.
As expected : high turnout for Macron and Fillon's electorates, hence the good % even with the 50% turnout nation-wide. Low turnout for Mélenchon's and Le Pen's voters (especially Le Pen only 44 did turn out to vote), Hamon's in-between, saving the PS ?. FI might not get a parliamentary group (if <15 MPs), FN can't get one at this rate. But it is likely to see Le Pen and Mélenchon getting elected.
Interesting data on the Harris twitter about the reasons of the vote etc for those interested
I don't understand your point.
A blank vote still isn't counted as a suffrage exprimé, a vote that actually matters in the %. They are just counted outside of it whereas beforehand they were counted alongside the invalid votes. Still hasn't any consequences, purely cosmetic. Anyway were you trying to say that this should bring people to the polls and that they are the one to be blamed anyway?
Interesting data on the Harris twitter about the reasons of the vote etc for those interested
I don't understand your point.
A blank vote still isn't counted as a suffrage exprimé, a vote that actually matters in the %. They are just counted outside of it whereas beforehand they were counted alongside the invalid votes. Still hasn't any consequences, purely cosmetic. Anyway were you trying to say that this should bring people to the polls and that they are the one to be blamed anyway?
DiipuSurotu
Banned
très délicieux
Maybe she doesn't mind all that much because this will just be more incentive to transform the FN into a new party, as she hinted after the Presidential election.
Macron showing Theresa May how to win a landslide lol.
Oh but they did. They're expected to end up with 20 to 30 députés. They had almost 300 going into this election.
For sure but I thought it would be way WAY worse.
Short but interesting analysis with an historical perspective.
Around 40% of them didn't ask to renew their mandate.
Of course that's even less then the 1993 disaster when they only had 52 MPs but...that's not bad considering they did 6% in the présidentielle, 13-15% behind the four big candidates - and 2 of the parties of these candidates are going to have less MPs than the PS. A disaster would have been 10-15 MPs : at least they are going to have a parliamentary group and many feared they couldn't have one.
Around 40% of them didn't ask to renew their mandate.
Of course that's even less then the 1993 disaster when they only had 52 MPs but...that's not bad considering they did 6% in the présidentielle, 13-15% behind the four big candidates - and 2 of the parties of these candidates are going to have less MPs than the PS. A disaster would have been 10-15 MPs : at least they are going to have a parliamentary group and many feared they couldn't have one.
Ghostandgoblin
Member
It's a first step, not something perfect but still better than not considering your voice at all. At least you get an official % and journalists can report it.
For once we know how much people voted blank for the presidential for example, but the problem is more that the shock value of the abstention is overshadowing the real message send by a blank vote. At least with a blank you're saying you don't want to give your vote to someone compared to writing nonsense and having a null, abstention is nothing more than not showing in it's core message. So just as cosmetic as a blank, some are trying to say fuck the system by doing so, others are on holidays or bying bread.
And no, I'm not blaming anyone. People do what they want with their vote, but I find stupid to claim that the assembly is not a representative one when you're throwing your voice away and not even trying to have one or condemn the political climate with an official and accountable way of doing so. It seems lazy at best.
I still don't understand : by "you" are you talking to me or it is a way to talk about a "general behaviour" ?
The Asssembly is not representative of the diversity of the opinions in the country and can't have any legitimacy when 50% of registered voters didn't show up, period. You can't argue against that or the fact that these are democratic issues. And this can only end badly if nothing is done.*
If you need to put the responsability on someone/thing, it's the electoral system that allows that kind of miscarriage of democracy. What's "lazy at best" is keeping an analysis on ground level by having a moral stance against abstentionnistes who aren't doing they duty and bla-bla-bla.
*For instance, as much as I hate the far-right, if they end up with 5 MPs, how is this representative of what they represent in the country ? Turn it upside down and all the ways you want, lack of representativness and lack of legitimacy aren't sane in a democracy and the "landslide" hides the real divisions (thanks to our electoral regime as shown in the link above)
Palette Swap
Member
Yeah, this result really highlights how unhealthy our current electoral system is. At this rate, we're getting a Jeb! map this time next week.
I have zero sympathy for LR and PS getting butchered as a result, though. These people had decades to reform it and they chose not to because it served them so well.
Seeing Goasguen out might be my favorite of tonight's results.
I have zero sympathy for LR and PS getting butchered as a result, though. These people had decades to reform it and they chose not to because it served them so well.
Seeing Goasguen out might be my favorite of tonight's results.
Ghostandgoblin
Member
Well I don't know if you voted or not, so no it's a general you.
Voting is not mandatory, it's your freedom to vote or not. By not voting, a voter is deliberately not voicing his opinion (trying to avoid the conflictual "you"
) in a system slowly moving to a consideration of the blank vote. Not voting is more saying "I don't care" than a blank equal to "I don't want any of the candidates to represent me".If the participation was 90% with a suffrage exprimé of 20%, then ok, the assembly is not legitimate. 70% of the voters chose to not give their voice to candidates, it's clearly problematic.
Here people who voted chose, those who didn't did the same by not voicing their concerns, so legitimacy is achieved from a legal point of view.
This is the point I was originally commenting in your post :
Arguing that the assembly is not representative when the same people arguing didn't vote is the problem. Why are they not voting ? I clearly don't know, but bringing people to voice their concerns and back to the voting booths is the real deal here. Why is there so much people not showing to vote today ? The turnout of the presidential elections, the lack of interesting candidates, the fact that a lot of people don't even know what the legislative are made for ? I don't know, that's not what I was commenting.
I love how you're putting things in my post that aren't there. Once again I'm not blaming anyone, not searching for scapegoats or pointing fingers. The result is the result, I'm not talking about that. I find the stance "I'm not represented" stupid if you don't even bother to vote blank. No question of duty, it's their freedom to not go vote, but no, you can't pretend to not be represented if you don't say a thing and hope for the best.
No moral here, just plain logic.
Now please explain me how not voting is the effective way of repairing our damaged democracy, I'm really interested. My ground level of analysis is surely blinding me on that matter.
Thx!
Well I don't know if you voted or not, so no it's a general you.
Voting is not mandatory, it's your freedom to vote or not. By not voting, a voter is deliberately not voicing his opinion (trying to avoid the conflictual "you"
If the participation was 90% with a suffrage exprimé of 20%, then ok, the assembly is not legitimate. 70% of the voters chose to not give their voice to candidates, it's clearly problematic.
Here people who voted chose, those who didn't did the same by not voicing their concerns, so legitimacy is achieved from a legal point of view.
This is the point I was originally commenting in your post :
Arguing that the assembly is not representative when the same people arguing didn't vote is the problem. Why are they not voting ? I clearly don't know, but bringing people to voice their concerns and back to the voting booths is the real deal here. Why is there so much people not showing to vote today ? The turnout of the presidential elections, the lack of interesting candidates, the fact that a lot of people don't even know what the legislative are made for ? I don't know, that's not what I was commenting.
I love how you're putting things in my post that aren't there. Once again I'm not blaming anyone, not searching for scapegoats or pointing fingers. The result is the result, I'm not talking about that. I find the stance "I'm not represented" stupid if you don't even bother to vote blank. No question of duty, it's their freedom to not go vote, but no, you can't pretend to not be represented if you don't say a thing and hope for the best.
No moral here, just plain logic.
Now please explain me how not voting is the effective way of repairing our damaged democracy, I'm really interested. My ground level of analysis is surely blinding me on that matter.
What are you talking about ? (highlighted parts) Who said "I'm not represented " ?
I really don't understand how you're adressing my initial poin : the lack of legitimacy of a National Assembly elected by less than 50% of the registered voters with a really bad electoral system for representativeness.
I have a hard time following you
"If the participation was 90% with a suffrage exprimé of 20%"
It just isn't realistic given our current electoral system, bad example
"legitimacy is achieved from a legal point of view. "
Of course that wasn't the strickly legal one that I was talking about
And of course you're taking moral stances : your whole "if you're not voting blanc then you can't voice any concern" isn't "plain logic", it's an opinion. A very common one tbh, I've already discussed it on this thread with people that didn't understand that their point of view on abstention (civic duty, we don't care if you don't show up etc) is totally off-ground and therefore they don't understand the whole issue (as you clearly don't).
Answer me if you want but I won't answer as I have a hard time trying to understand what you mean and how I could explain to you that you're not helping having a debate on the topic.
Eolz
Member
As usual with elections one month after the presidential ones, it just strengthens those results...
Don't agree with the end, but yeah, fucking stupid when most places had 12+ candidates.
Really ashamed of that turnout rate. No excuses.
edit: hopefully the ones that didn't vote get a big kick in the butt from that and get the idea that you can't change the electoral system if you don't vote for a change.
And that those results will make understand the PS and other old parties that they did absolutely nothing those past years, and that they're just getting that now.
Don't agree with the end, but yeah, fucking stupid when most places had 12+ candidates.
Really ashamed of that turnout rate. No excuses.
edit: hopefully the ones that didn't vote get a big kick in the butt from that and get the idea that you can't change the electoral system if you don't vote for a change.
And that those results will make understand the PS and other old parties that they did absolutely nothing those past years, and that they're just getting that now.
I mean the abstention is really bad, but it´s not like legislative elections have historically had massive participation, it´s just the nature of the system that is creating this situation.
Blaming En Marche for it is silly, the party literally did not exist when it was decided that the legislative elections would follow the presidential one. They can only participate in the elections that exist, and they promised to introduce some proportionality.
In 2012 the socialists got a relatively slim majority with 58% participation and nobody cried foul. This year EM gets a massive, historic landslide with 50% participation and somehow it doesn´t mean anything? You could literally get those 8% of electors and distribute them to all the other parties except EM and they would still handily beat everyone.
Abstention is a problem for sure but don´t be sore losers.
edit : The idea that EM should not get a majority of MPs because Macron only did 24% in the firstround of the presidential election is especially silly. Guess what, we asked the people to vote again, and they gave EM an ever bigger score than before, so why the fuck shouldn´t they get the MPs? Get out and vote if you don´t like it. How many elections do they have to win (by massive landslides) before they have legitimacy?
Blaming En Marche for it is silly, the party literally did not exist when it was decided that the legislative elections would follow the presidential one. They can only participate in the elections that exist, and they promised to introduce some proportionality.
In 2012 the socialists got a relatively slim majority with 58% participation and nobody cried foul. This year EM gets a massive, historic landslide with 50% participation and somehow it doesn´t mean anything? You could literally get those 8% of electors and distribute them to all the other parties except EM and they would still handily beat everyone.
Abstention is a problem for sure but don´t be sore losers.
edit : The idea that EM should not get a majority of MPs because Macron only did 24% in the firstround of the presidential election is especially silly. Guess what, we asked the people to vote again, and they gave EM an ever bigger score than before, so why the fuck shouldn´t they get the MPs? Get out and vote if you don´t like it. How many elections do they have to win (by massive landslides) before they have legitimacy?
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