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[Calidor]

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

You are talking about what you want to happen, and not reality. Big difference there

ffs thats being realistic... once PS3 is out, why would you want a rushed X360? PS3 will be more powerful, Blue-Ray player incorporated, the PlayStation brand name and all monster franchises are on PS3.. X360 advantages will be the... price?

That's my point of view as a Nintendo fan, maybe i'm missing some hidden features but I don't see the point of buying a X360 over a PS3.

 

[koam]

The image of Mr burns trying to crush a paper cup comes to mind.

 

[sonycowboy]

First of all, Moore did an awesome fucking job on Dreamcast sales in the US. The US launch went very well, and the lineup of games and sales in 2000 were very good. He brought in many western PC-centric gamers to thwe console realm.

The Dreamcast was one of the biggest failures in console history. Try again. Yes it was a great, great, great system. But from a business perspective it was a complete and utter failure.

He had a hand in the Xbox selling more than the PS2 last year.

The Xbox sold more than the PS2 last year? Funny, I have numbers that show that it sold quite a few more units. Oh, you mean the month it dropped the price early and the 3 months that the PS2 had a shortage. The Xbox had a great year, don't get me wrong and it was a pivotal year for market acceptance overall, but you're overplaying it to say that it overtook the PS2.

He's going to have almost a year without any competition in the next gen (If the PS3 follows it's Japanese Launch-> Spring, US launch -> Later Sony routine) and against a higher priced console which they can drop their own price against while still offering many of the same big name games and big names of their own. He's going to have a ball.

I doubt he'll put it that way.

And you're speculating quite a bit there with launch dates, price points, and thier ability to moderate the price as fast as you seem to think. In any case, they do have a very nice window of opportunity available to them. Of course, you left out the big names Sony will have on their own, and in fact, left out all Sony advantages, but that doesn't really help your argument, so that's OK.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

what if *GASP* both are a success!!?!?!?

*throws self out of window in shock*

Chances are, that's probably whats going to happen.

 

[DCharlie]

... can you arrange some springy matresses outside my window please?

 

[Dr_Cogent]

... can you arrange some springy matresses outside my window please?

Sure, lemme get in my Tardis and get right on that :lol

I'm not really rooting for anyone to lose. Competition is a good thing. I want Sony to succeed and I want MS to succeed. I don't want a monopoly - that's for sure. We, the consumers, get totally F'ed when that happens.

And I wish Nintendo would get their fucking act together and stop relying on gimicks to sell their shit - *cough* GBA + GC connectivity and such *cough*

Give me sweet 1st party Nintendo games and get a good helping of damn third party software on top of there too! Either that, or go the way of Sega and focus on writing software.

 

[Mrbob]

Sure, lemme get in my Tardis and get right on that :lol

I'm not really rooting for anyone to lose. Competition is a good thing. I want Sony to succeed and I want MS to succeed. I don't want a monopoly - that's for sure. We, the consumers, get totally F'ed when that happens.

And I wish Nintendo would get their fucking act together and stop relying on gimicks to sell their shit - *cough* GBA + GC connectivity and such *cough*

Give me sweet 1st party Nintendo games and get a good helping of damn third party software on top of there too! Either that, or go the way of Sega and focus on writing software.

I'm going to play devils advocate here. In the past I thought hardware competition has always been a good thing. Helps push advances in technology. But now that this hardware is getting so damn powerful I don't know if this is a good thing anymore. I think multiple hardware could actually hurt the industry. If there is one standard hardware platform the competition will always be there. The competition is all about the software. Let me tell you why.

You say consumers will get screwed with one hardware platform. Why? The hardware manufacturer is always going to sell the hardware at a competitive price to make sure they hit their yearly numbers. Plus the real money maker is in the software and accessories so they are going to want as much hardware out there as possible. Right now, looking at next gen, if you want the best games, this is what you have to buy in hardware alone:

Speculatory prices

PS3 - $349
Xbox 360 - $299
Revolution - $249

That is 900 dollars in pure hardware right there. Hardware! You can spin it all you want that if one manufacturer is out there the hardware prices will be higher but truly how much higher will they be? I'd say $399 max. $399 is much smaller price to pay than $900 for hardware. Beyond that, for this $400 you'll get access to play all the games on the system. Sure you can say hardware prices go down over time, but so will that $399 hardware price. If anything the hardware industry can become similar to DVD where they all play the same games but each manufacturer puts their spin on the product. This is what I'm eventually looking forward too. I'd like to see a standardized hardware of sorts so you don't have to spend nearly a grand in hardware to play all the games.

Secondly, multi platform software is getting more expensive next gen with the different hardware architectures. This is a driving force in raising prices of game software. It costs much more to make a multi platform game than a single platform. So if we have one standardized platform it can help keep development budgets lower. Which means software prices can stay in check. Beyond that, with one standardized platform developers can put all their effort into maxxing out the system to the best effect. Which means you always, *always*, get the best possible game possible on the platform. It won't be watered down at all.

Everything wouldn't pan out eventually as I wrote, but I don't think having one main hardware manufacturer is a bad thing. The competition is always there in the software.

 

[DCharlie]

i'm going to brutally honest and crude here, but....

hardware launches give me a massive chub on.
nothing gets me more excited than new hardware.
so the more launches the better.

However, i know that's a personal thing.

Anyways - on the subject of one hardware platform - that would be nirvana... for about 3-4 years. Then you are going to find that there is no real incentive to move on to a new hardware platform.

If MS / Sony / Nintendo released one unified platform - where they have a userbase of 160 million gamers, do you think they'd be that interested in bringing a new console out if there is no competition to drive them to it?

I think eventually they WOULD do it, but without the competition there would be less urgency to advance the platform. and that would stink.

Competition is good. I like the situation we have now.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

The Dreamcast was one of the biggest failures in console history. Try again. Yes it was a great, great, great system. But from a business perspective it was a complete and utter failure.

I doubt Moore had much to do with the investment of the DC, and the direction Sega created their games in (Even Sega of Europe had more access to dev houses than SoA) However, he's at Microsoft at Product Planning and Marketing, two things I think he has had nothing but success in. The Dreamcast sold very well in it's launch time, and had a great increase in sales shortly before the PS2 launch, when the DC cut the price by $$50 and ramped up marketing. He's not heading any investment decisions at Microsoft, but he's the head of Marketing and Publishing worldwide. I'd say that his Publishing decisions (Cut the fat like Tork, focus on games like Halo 2 and Forza) have been very wise, and after the Dreamcast launch and Halo 2, I doubt anyone could doubt his success in marketing

 

[DCharlie]

"The Dreamcast was one of the biggest failures in console history. Try again. "

3DO
PIPPIN
JAGUAR
Phantom
Amstrads "thing"
Amiga 32CD
M2
Pico
SuperGraphx

Dreamcast isn't anywhere near these, and i'm sure i could name more.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

ffs thats being realistic... once PS3 is out, why would you want a rushed X360? PS3 will be more powerful, Blue-Ray player incorporated, the PlayStation brand name and all monster franchises are on PS3.. X360 advantages will be the... price?

That's my point of view as a Nintendo fan, maybe i'm missing some hidden features but I don't see the point of buying a X360 over a PS3.

The 'playstation' brand, holds absolutely no meaning to me


Power and monsters franchises are assumptions. Surely, we expect most to appear on the PS3, however, a lot of people didn't believe Ridge Racer 6 was to be on the 360. Microsoft made no big fuss about it either. I'd expect bigger things come X05. They say they have 160 games in development, we've seen like 70-90, plenty more time for surprises.


I don't play Tekken
I don't watch movies
I perfer Splinter Cell to MGS
Can't stand no damage in racing games. So Forza>anything else, as far as realistic racing goes
Loves FPS games, couldn't stand the Dual Shock, who knows the fall out with this upcoming one.
I play my games online
Perfer Bioware games to Square games, but I still buy FF games. If Wada is correct with the multi platform stuff, the need to get a PS3 is nil.

Add all the above together, and then you got me, the leading pre-order person in the Gamestop system nationwide for the Xbox 360. Yes, my store and DM checked.

 

[Calidor]

The 'playstation' brand, holds absolutely no meaning to me


Power and monsters franchises are assumptions. Surely, we expect most to appear on the PS3, however, a lot of people didn't believe Ridge Racer 6 was to be on the 360. Microsoft made no big fuss about it either. I'd expect bigger things come X05. They say they have 160 games in development, we've seen like 70-90, plenty more time for surprises.


I don't play Tekken
I don't watch movies
I perfer Splinter Cell to MGS
Can't stand no damage in racing games. So Forza>anything else, as far as realistic racing goes
Loves FPS games, couldn't stand the Dual Shock, who knows the fall out with this upcoming one.
I play my games online
Perfer Bioware games to Square games, but I still buy FF games. If Wada is correct with the multi platform stuff, the need to get a PS3 is nil.

Add all the above together, and then you got me, the leading pre-order person in the Gamestop system nationwide for the Xbox 360. Yes, my store and DM checked.

do you realize that you dont have the tastes of the mass market, right? because that's what we were talking about when PS3 eating X360

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

do you realize that you dont have the tastes of the mass market, right? because that's what we were talking about when PS3 eating X360

As I look at the market, combined with numbers. People tend to skew moreso to the games I like versus another's. Racers, FPS games, Action games and Sports.

I like those, the general consumer (American) likes those too.

Racers = Vroom, Vroom, drive fast in exotic shit you'll never own
FPS Games = Pretend you are Rambo and blow shit up
Action games = Look cool and blow shit up.
Sports = Madden and Fifa is there.

All bases are covered, the other genres will grow into their own. The 360 lacks nothing.

 

[Speevy]

I didn't think the phrase "Vroom vroom." would ever be used in a discussion. Well played.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

I'm going to play devils advocate here.

Bob,

I've lived through the days of only one hardware platform. It was called Intel. Intel didn't innovate much or move computing as fast as it is now with AMD nipping at their heels. One hardware platform would totally screw us all over. It's human nature. In a perfect world where people aren't greedy, maybe it would work - but not in our world today.

Take any monopoly, what do you get - consumer gets the big FU (tm).

No competition = bad for consumers - everytime.

Hell, look at who owns all the oil in the world, are they cutting us breaks on it? Um, no.

 

[Sanjuro]

I'm not saying Sony is going to be first or last in this race. All I'm going to say is its going to be very intresting this time around. When GCube and XBOX both came out there wasn't much of a chance of taking Sony's incredible lead. The casual gamers come to know XBOX as the system with Halo and the same games on PS2 but with better graphics. The "disc read error" problem will also effect their purchasing decison as well.

I can see 360 coming out on top this time around, problem is most of us here are not casual gamers at all so we wouldnt agree with this. I'll end up with probably all 3 consoles yet again, I just enjoy playing games regardless of what console it is on. I loved the PS1, one of the best consoles of all time. PS2 has many great titles and varieity, but the hardware problems does factor into my choice of console big time. Nintendo always is #1 in terms of durable hardware and support and as always I hope they do well. With the look of the Revolution and if it can get a head start and a killer title on its platform before the PS3 arrives, Nintendo is back in the race as well.

Basically I look forward to seeing what happens and I expect all 3 systems to be very close together this time around.

 

[Chiggs]

The 'playstation' brand, holds absolutely no meaning to me


Power and monsters franchises are assumptions. Surely, we expect most to appear on the PS3, however, a lot of people didn't believe Ridge Racer 6 was to be on the 360. Microsoft made no big fuss about it either. I'd expect bigger things come X05. They say they have 160 games in development, we've seen like 70-90, plenty more time for surprises.


I don't play Tekken
I don't watch movies
I perfer Splinter Cell to MGS
Can't stand no damage in racing games. So Forza>anything else, as far as realistic racing goes
Loves FPS games, couldn't stand the Dual Shock, who knows the fall out with this upcoming one.
I play my games online
Perfer Bioware games to Square games, but I still buy FF games. If Wada is correct with the multi platform stuff, the need to get a PS3 is nil.

Add all the above together, and then you got me, the leading pre-order person in the Gamestop system nationwide for the Xbox 360. Yes, my store and DM checked.

Same here, but I enjoy the MGS series more than the Splinter Cell series. I, too, could care less about watching DVD's with the advent of DVR and On Demand. Oh, and I also like the Dual Shock, but think that Microsoft's S controller is a tad bit better.

 

[Barnimal]

The Dreamcast was one of the biggest failures in console history. Try again. Yes it was a great, great, great system. But from a business perspective it was a complete and utter failure.

32x
virtual boy
PCFX
marty

 

[SolidSnakex]

As I look at the market, combined with numbers. People tend to skew moreso to the games I like versus another's. Racers, FPS games, Action games and Sports.

I like those, the general consumer (American) likes those too.

Racers = Vroom, Vroom, drive fast in exotic shit you'll never own
FPS Games = Pretend you are Rambo and blow shit up
Action games = Look cool and blow shit up.
Sports = Madden and Fifa is there.

All bases are covered, the other genres will grow into their own. The 360 lacks nothing.

The interesting one there is FPS. This is because up until now Sony's systems have always been a step behind in terms of power compared to its competition so they could never run the quality of FPS found on other system. Last gen it was the N64 that was better suited, this gen it was the Xbox, next gen Sony's in the seat where they'll have a system that can run them as well as any other.

Racing games are big. But there are only 2 that really push a system. Sony will have both on its system, MS will have 1.

 

[Speevy]

"Push a system." You mean sales?

Anyway, why are there no worthwhile exclusive FPS on the PS2? 1,000+ games. Developer support from all the third parties. 90 million sold. It's powerful enough. The genre is popular, so there's no reason why the most popular system should have skipped it. Also, there are no exclusive Western RPG's of which I'm aware. Why? The ones on the Xbox were plenty successful.

Power has nothing to do with it. This generation, Sony just didn't give a crap enough to put those games on its system. Hopefully that will change.

 

[Chrono]

nm.

 

[hukasmokincaterpillar]

Power has nothing to do with it. This generation, Sony just didn't give a crap enough to put those games on its system. Hopefully that will change.

What do Western RPGs and FPS' have in common? Mostly PC centric developers. Why did the PC devs love Xbox? Cause it was made up of off the shelf parts they were familiar with. And what gave PC developers the willies? Quirky ass PS2 hardware that came with a poorly written instruction booklet.

Power had a little to do with it, but I think it was mostly the architecture difference and MS' pipeline to American PC developers that saw the lopsided count in the two genres. I imagine Sony going with an Nvidia GPU is rubbing the western devs on their proverbial bellies. Point and shoot for everyone next gen!

 

[SolidSnakex]

Anyway, why are there no worthwhile exclusive FPS on the PS2? 1,000+ games. Developer support from all the third parties. 90 million sold. It's powerful enough. The genre is popular, so there's no reason why the most popular system should have skipped it. /QUOTE]

I didn't say there weren't any worthwhile FPS on the PS2. What I said is that the Xbox is better suited for them because of the power difference. All you have to do is play 3rd party FPS that are on the PS2 and Xbox and you can tell that.

 

[ThirdEye]

So now it's official that PS3 is superior to Xbox 360 as Moore acknowledged it. If it's not a stupid comment, what is?

 

[Nightbringer]

What the hell? Now microsoft is selling X360 as a budget system against the tech beast. Fucking stupid marketing.

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

Famitsu asked its readers which conference they found more interesting...here is the result:

42,3 % - Xbox Japan Summit 2005 (Microsoft)
31,5 % - PlayStation Meeting 2005 (Sony)
26,2 % - No one or no response


Anyway, I think you guys are understimating sony...
Lets discuss about PS3 hard/soft around february 2006...

 

[SolidSnakex]

If it's not a stupid comment, what is?

That'd be when Moore said that the Xbox being black scared away casual gamers.

 

[u_neek]

Famitsu asked its readers which conference they found more interesting...here is the result:

42,3 % - Xbox Japan Summit 2005 (Microsoft)
31,5 % - PlayStation Meeting 2005 (Sony)
26,2 % - No one or no response

Famitsu Xbox according to GameFront

 

[Suikoguy]

Famitsu Xbox according to GameFront

Wow.. what a pointless poll that was>

Next month in OPM> Vote for which console had the best E3

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

Famitsu Xbox according to GameFront

Psss, I told you to shut up, now chart interest = 0

:lol

 

[Fatghost]

i'm going to brutally honest and crude here, but....

hardware launches give me a massive chub on.
nothing gets me more excited than new hardware.
so the more launches the better.

Me too.

 

[Guy LeDouche]

Famitsu Xbox according to GameFront

haha, and the purposes of each respective show are very different. PS3 stuff at the PS Meeting was basically a bonus. The point of the show was to acknowledge the top sellers on the PS2. The point of the XBox show was to show off the X360. A better comparison might be Sony's TGS show, where they have said they plan to show off realtime, playable PS3 games, reveal new details, etc.

 

[sonycowboy]

3DO
PIPPIN
JAGUAR
Phantom
Amstrads "thing"
Amiga 32CD
M2
Pico
SuperGraphx

Dreamcast isn't anywhere near these, and i'm sure i could name more.

I didn't mean in terms of just sales. You also need to consider their place in the industry and the level of support the product had. None of those games even approached the commercial investment from the manufacturer, the 3rd parties, the media, & retail.

In any case, I only meant from a business standpoint, as I think many would agree that the Dreamcast as a system will do down as one of the greater systems of all time with a library that for it's short time was incredible.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

I didn't mean in terms of just sales. You also need to consider their place in the industry and the level of support the product had. None of those games even approached the commercial investment from the manufacturer, the 3rd parties, the media, & retail.

In any case, I only meant from a business standpoint, as I think many would agree that the Dreamcast as a system will do down as one of the greater systems of all time with a library that for it's short time was incredible.

I really want to know where you derive all of your "supposed" business analyst expertise from sony.

You speak with such authority on here about the business of games, I would like to know what makes you such an expert all the time.

 

[sonycowboy]

I really want to know where you derive all of your "supposed" business analyst expertise from sony.

Boy, you do have a hardon for me don't you? This whole forum is filled with people and their opinions from people with differening backgrounds and experience. I'm not asking you to put any stock whatsoever in my background or anybody elses. You read a post and respond to that. If you don't like the post, argue the actual content, as opposed to trying to attack the poster. Unless you can't argue the actual content and so then need an outside reason to discount a post.

And the little PM you sent me last week ranting on and calling me a liar already tells me that you've got a predisposition to not particularly care for my posts. That's fine, but don't pretend to be "seeking the truth" when it's convenient.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Boy, you do have a hardon for me don't you? This whole forum is filled with people and their opinions from people with differening backgrounds and experience. I'm not asking you to put any stock whatsoever in my background or anybody elses. You read a post and respond to that. If you don't like the post, argue the actual content, as opposed to trying to attack the poster. Unless you can't argue the actual content and so then need an outside reason to discount a post.

And the little PM you sent me last week ranting on and calling me a liar already tells me that you've got a predisposition to not particularly care for my posts. That's fine, but don't pretend to be "seeking the truth" when it's convenient.

I am seeking the truth. I am curious what your qualifications are in analyzing this information. Are you really a biz analyst? Maybe you are. I would like to know if you are or not, that's all.

You can't give it to me straight on what you actually do? I will tell you what I do. I'm a computer engineer, and write software for a living. I don't spend time analyzing numbers from Sony, Nintendo, or MS - so I would appreciate it if you qualified yourself since you happen to do a lot of posting on the business side of games - and you are quick to demean someone who happens to post biz opinions that you don't agree with (points at your post in this thread). I want to know if I should place any stock in what you have to say or if you are just a gamer who "thinks" that's how things will play out.

For all I know, we do have real biz analysts floating around here at GAF. I am sure the demographics outside of "video game players" is actually quite diverse on here.

I'm not going to pretend I know something I don't. I know games very well, and I am a good programmer with plenty of experience. I will express my views with authority when I know I am an expert or well versed in the field, and I am wondering if the same is the case with you.

Regarding the PM, I'm calling it as I see it. You have a way of distorting the truth when you see fit as some sort of attack on someone else's intelligence when they don't see things eye to eye with you - especially when it comes to Sony.

 

[DarienA]

"could it be love......"

 

[Dr_Cogent]

"could it be love......"

:lol

These forums take things way too seriously. WAY too seriously. It's games guys. They are games. We have fun playing them. Why is this a war? Sometimes I think they should rename the forums to Gaming War Discussion.

I really thought there would be more discussion about actual games here when I started, but it's the same tired thing that every single other forum has. Corporation fans fighting over machines.

I happen to have a few beefs with the PS2. Others may not agree with it. That's cool! Other people don't like the Xbox and I personally love it! People appear to "side" with a company. I will buy the PS3 if it rocks out and it probably will most likely. Nintendo is the one I am worried about.

3Dfx rocked my world a long time ago, then they stopped innovating - so I dropped them like a hot potatoe. I will buy whoever offers me the best price and the best deal in terms of games and/or features (and so will most consumers on the whole as well from what I can tell). We all have to make that decision, but I don't understand the blind "love" for a company. I don't want to see anyone fail, competition is good, but I don't understand the "team mentality" when it comes to the individual companies. They aren't your friends. They want your money. You are dollar signs to them. You have to vote with your dollars.

I'm in it for the games, plain and simple. I would love it if we saw more discussions about the games themselves instead of the war of the console worlds.

 

[sonycowboy]

I am seeking the truth. I am curious what your qualifications are in analyzing this information. Are you really a biz analyst? Maybe you are. I would like to know if you are or not, that's all.

You can't give it to me straight on what you actually do? I will tell you what I do. I'm a computer engineer, and write software for a living. I don't spend time analyzing numbers from Sony, Nintendo, or MS - so I would appreciate it if you qualified yourself since you happen to do a lot of posting on the business side of games - and you are quick to demean someone who happens to post biz opinions that you don't agree with (points at your post in this thread). I want to know if I should place any stock in what you have to say or if you are just a gamer who "thinks" that's how things will play out.

I'm a retail inventory analyst and an IT business analyst. I've worked in retail management for oh, 14 years or so. I've had a number of different retailers that I've worked for, both small and absolutely huge mass market ones. My life is analyzing numbers, and it's a passion of mine. I'm always looking at the VG industry, the box office takes, overall retailer results. If it's about sales, I'm usually pretty interested.

NOTE: I do play a crapload of games, but for some reason, I just don't really talk about them that much. I just don't enjoy going over certain aspects of games and I'm not particularly good at describing why a game is great or why I really enjoy it, so I don't. So, I default to talking about sales/industry/trends.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

I'm a retail inventory analyst and an IT business analyst. I've worked in retail management for oh, 14 years or so. I've had a number of different retailers that I've worked for, both small and absolutely huge mass market ones. My life is analyzing numbers, and it's a passion of mine. I'm always looking at the VG industry, the box office takes, overall retailer results. If it's about sales, I'm usually pretty interested.

NOTE: I do play a crapload of games, but for some reason, I just don't really talk about them that much. I just don't enjoy going over certain aspects of games and I'm not particularly good at describing why a game is great or why I really enjoy it, so I don't. So, I default to talking about sales/industry/trends.

o_@ holy crap! Sweet!

Now, see - I have more faith in what you have to say about the subject. Experience makes all the difference in the world. Thanks for being honest.

I will also like to go on the record as saying I do understand gameplay mechanics and what makes a good game. I almost got into the game dev field, but I got married and had a kid and "crunch time" isn't good for marriages or kids. I wouldn't trade it for the world though.

 

[Razoric]

Male bonding or the beginning of a love affair that will span many generations... find out tonight on Greta.

 

[BuzzJive]

It seems odd for them to say that to really get full use of the 360, you need HDTV as well as Xbox Live. BUT WAIT - don't spend another potential $100 on the PS3 instead of our system. Like somehow - that last $100 is the deal breaker.

This really is a strange strategy. It's a page out of Nintendo's book.

 

[Gek54]

These forums take things way too seriously. WAY too seriously. It's games guys. They are games. We have fun playing them. Why is this a war? Sometimes I think they should rename the forums to Gaming War Discussion.

Someone really needs to take their own advice, if more so than anyone else.

 

[OmniGamer]

If every gamer were an OmniGamer, this(gaming forums in general) would be a much better place