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[AeonGaidenRaiden]

Both Quake and Unreal had their share of success, Quake more so. Quake 2 was a marvel but U1 was a graphical powerhouse. The fact that Carmack literally made 3 generational leaps in 4 years between Q1 and 3 is insane. The ONE question I never could get an answer to is: how did they both read the market at the same time and both come out with a multiplayer centric game two weeks apart from each other??? Obviously the easiest way of getting copycats and "clones" is by another company seeing success and wanting to cash in on that trend. But there was no trend back then to have a multiplayer only game with a TON of maps and modes, its embarrassing how bare bones todays game's map count is. This is one question I just could never dig up any information about. Its as if PUBG and Fortnite both came out at the same time and both having a BR mode while there never was such a thing.

Even if they had someone on the inside, it would be almost impossible to shift development focus and release it in a year, both games being highly regarded. You can not say one game is better than the other, its about your taste but one thing we can say is both games are polished and have their huge following. I watched many documentaries, interviews etc and still don't understand how did they both think at the same time that it is time to do an arena shooter MP only title. I can understand Carmack being bored of single player but how did Epic get to that same conclusion when their flagship game was insanely popular, how did they not go into production of Unreal 2 right away with a better engine, but instead went all in on the MP, which by the way I dont remember being that popular when Unreal 1 was out. Quake was still king.

In the end we got two amazing games but how did they both go with the same focus without following a "trend" first, I have no clue.

 

[Alexios]

Both saw what fans craved for at the time I guess, since both had deathmatch type stuff in their previous games even if they also had single player campaigns on top and saw the crazy reaction to that component and online gaming becoming all the rage.

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

Both saw what fans craved for at the time I guess, since both had deathmatch type stuff in their previous games even if they also had single player campaigns on top and saw the crazy reaction to that component and online gaming becoming all the rage.

I mean that metric plays a role for sure. For Quake I would understand, for Unreal I feel like it was a bigger risk because their main show-off was the graphics. They were not yet popular in the community for MP.

 

[Alexios]

Btw, has the community migrated to Quake Live or is it divided between that and playing III Arena? What about mods and total conversions, are they possible on Quake Live and if so have the notable & alive projects migrated or again it's better to look for the original version (both are on Steam)?

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

To be honest I played Quake live when it was free just on a browser. I think most people if they do play the game, are on those servers versus Q3. Because probably a few people shifted to Quake Champions which kind of failed. So did the UT project because Epic went full on on Fortnite support. Lots of modders and fans were left alone to build a game Epic didnt care about anymore. I honestly wish they ported these two for modern consoles.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Btw, has the community migrated to Quake Live or is it divided between that and playing III Arena? What about mods and total conversions, are they possible on Quake Live and if so have the notable & alive projects migrated or again it's better to look for the original version (both are on Steam)?

I would like to know as well, I miss playing good Arena shooters. Quake CHampions is broken 99% of the time.

 

[ntropy]

UT supported OpenGL, a software renderer, and had a Linux release!

 

[Alexios]

UT supported OpenGL, a software renderer, and had a Linux release!

Pretty sure Quake 3 released on Linux too & required OpenGL (no software/D3D option, it also kinda looks well beyond UT imo, those smooth arches and curves on all the maps, dang, but UT ran a little better, or less awful, on the shit internet cafe computers at the time so was played more there).

 

[Alexios]

I would like to know as well, I miss playing good Arena shooters. Quake CHampions is broken 99% of the time.

I was sure ShootMania could bring the genre back, I mean, a pure arena FPS by the developers of TrackMania (Nations & United being all the rage for tons of folks back in their day, with their custom tracks etc.), how could it go wrong? Ubisoft's curse I guess, I wish they never bought its studio.

 

[diffusionx]

Multiplayer games were exploding then. Most of them had singleplayer modes attached but stuff like Starsiege Tribes proved the viability of multiplayer only FPS games. id knew how popular MP was obviously, and Epic, while Unreal had good reviews, was not lauded for MP and I bet that they wanted to show they could do a MP game.

Honestly it is probably a coincidence.

 

[DemonGamerTTT]

I was sure ShootMania could bring the genre back, I mean, a pure arena FPS by the developers of TrackMania (Nations & United being all the rage for tons of folks back in their day, with their custom tracks etc.), how could it go wrong? Ubisoft's curse I guess, I wish they never bought its studio.

Not even close this game has no sauce it's the blandest shit ever...

Quake 3 Arena and UT 99 are from a era where games were made to be fun first, this game you posted always wanted to be a "e-sport" first and that never works.

I really miss the good ol if Arena Shooters..
I was just teaching my son how to play Q3 arena last week, on my region there's still some dedicated servers but unfortunately most of the time they are empty or just filled with bots.

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

 

[U n i o n 0015]

Not even close this game has no sauce it's the blandest shit ever...

Yep...no guns, silly red/blue laser blasters? Half the fun in Q3/UT was meaty ass guns that felt good to fire and had different uses.

 

[64bitmodels]

how did they both read the market at the same time and both come out with a multiplayer centric game two weeks apart from each other???

I'd like to think they created the trend by being godtier but the truth is that doom and quake MP was a thing for years before either game came out, plus with the internet's rise around the turn of the millenium it only made sense
I actually used to think Quake 3 was lame since it had no singleplayer campaign but god it's fucking fun.... when you can find real people to play with!!

 

[kuncol02]

That's because they didn't created new trend, but both were answer for popularity of already existing multiplayer modes from other games (especially QuakeWorld).

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

New relevant video:

 

[Divus]

I just so happened to get a monster PC a week or two before these dropped all those years ago. I still remember going online and posting FPS scores trying everything I could to get the highest FPS.

Played the absolute shit out of both of them. UT was my favorite for the longest time.

 

[twilo99]

Ehh, arena shooters are simply too hard for most people and the skills required to enjoy them take time and effort, which most people don't have the time or patience for

Here are some nice hits

 

[Mess]

Since we're posting vids and talking about graphics, here's how Q3 looks when you're playing it seriously

 

[Crayon]

You had team fortress blowing up as a quake1 mod, too.

 

[Drizzlehell]

For Quake 3?

1. Explosion of the internet as something that started becoming more widely available in any regular household
2. Cyber cafes and popularity of gaming tournaments
3. Popularity of QuakeWorld and growing interest in online competitive gaming, combined with John Carmack's lack of interest in solo, story-driven games

Unreal Tournament's story is a bit more nuanced. The original Unreal's net code sucked and the game couldn't survive long on its multiplayer component so after the release, Epic decided to focus on fixing that and also releasing a multiplayer expansion to the game. But the project quickly spun out of control and it grew in size so much that the company decided to make it a standalone release. The fact that it came out around the same time as Quake 3 was more of a happy accident than a deliberate move, although I'm guessing that both id and Epic may have been aware of each other's plans so they made sure to hit the release date that will put them both in the best possible position to succeed.

 

[Spukc]

this killed unreal tournament
just let this sink in

 

[GC_DALBEN]

Played Q1 2 3 and UT online a lot, its sad that arena shooters are dead, its just too hard for new ppl to come in, the comunity is cool and all, but the majority of players are playing these games for 10+ years, any new player that tries to start playing is DESTROYED, that been said i still play QUAKE CHAMPIONS from time to time, its great (but not as great as Q1 DM CA RA TF).

Sorry about my english.

 

[cireza]

Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament were the best, nothing came close to these games.

Nowadays we can't get fun games, everything has to be super serious, bland e-sport shit.

 

[Catphish]

Man what I wouldn't give for a modern, 90s-style arena shooter.

Fuck.

 

[amigastar]

Quake 3 was me and my friends game back in the day. But i loved Unreal Tournament 2004 also which had amazing graphics back then.

 

[Drizzlehell]

Man what I wouldn't give for a modern, 90s-style arena shooter.

Fuck.

I really miss the god ol Arena Shooters as well I was just teaching my son his to play Q3 arena last week, on my region there's still some dedicated servers but unfortunately most of the time they are empty or just filled with bots.

Meanwhile, games like Diabotical, Splitgate, or Dusk are struggling to retain a player base, and Quake Champions and Unreal Tournament 4 got abandoned by their devs.

At least be honest with yourself guys. You don't want a modern arena shooter. You're just nostalgic about the games that you played as kids because if you really wanted those kinds of games you'd be out there playing them.

 

[Drew1440]

I still don't understand why Unreal Tournament 4 was abandoned, or why Unreal Tournament isn't on the Epic Games Store at all.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Meanwhile, games like Diabotical, Splitgate, or Dusk are struggling to retain a player base, and Quake Champions and Unreal Tournament 4 got abandoned by their devs.

At least be honest with yourself guys. You don't want a modern arena shooter. You're just nostalgic about the games that you played as kids because if you really wanted those kinds of games you'd be out there playing them.

Diabotical never came to steam and failed to market or advertise. Dusk has a minor MP mode, but was never designed to be a MP game and instead a high quality SP throwback to the original Quake.

Quake Champions completely changed what people loved about Quake 3 and made it a hero shooter. They never created a quality netcode and the game ran like shit for years.

UT4 never got a chance to take off as Epic abandoned it the very moment Fortnite took off.

The issue is poor development in all the cases, not because people don't want Arena shooters.

At least be honest instead of being purposefully disingenuous.

Splitgate *did* take off and the devs did so well that they are currently focusing on a full sequel.

 

[Catphish]

Meanwhile, games like Diabotical, Splitgate, or Dusk are struggling to retain a player base, and Quake Champions and Unreal Tournament 4 got abandoned by their devs.

At least be honest with yourself guys. You don't want a modern arena shooter. You're just nostalgic about the games that you played as kids because if you really wanted those kinds of games you'd be out there playing them.

Mate, I haven’t heard of any of those games you just mentioned.

“be honest with yourself”
The fuck

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

even the box kicked ass.
more games need gibs.

 

[Wildebeest]

Tribes was before them as being multiplayer only.

 

[Drizzlehell]

Mate, I haven’t heard of any of those games you just mentioned.

“be honest with yourself”
The fuck

Yeah, I mean for real man. If you want to play games like this so badly then you'd jut go out and do it because there are still options available. It's not that difficult to find them if you look. The genre isn't as huge as it used to be but it didn't disappear completely.

Diabotical never came to steam and failed to market or advertise. Dusk has a minor MP mode, but was never designed to be a MP game and instead a high quality SP throwback to the original Quake.

Quake Champions completely changed what people loved about Quake 3 and made it a hero shooter. They never created a quality netcode and the game ran like shit for years.

UT4 never got a chance to take off as Epic abandoned it the very moment Fortnite took off.

The issue is poor development in all the cases, not because people don't want Arena shooters.

At least be honest instead of being purposefully disingenuous.

Splitgate *did* take off and the devs did so well that they are currently focusing on a full sequel.

I would agree on everything except Dusk. DuskWorld is basically a modern QuakeWorld and it's a fun deathmatch game. The only problem is that barely anyone plays it.

And if you're not interested in Dusk then you can even go back and play Quake online because Nightdive recently gave it a remastered treatment and they added online deathmatch to it.

 

[calistan]

Since we're posting vids and talking about graphics, here's how Q3 looks when you're playing it seriously

Stripping the graphics down like that and highlighting other players in bright white surely isn't all that far from installing cheat engines. I'd be pretty annoyed if my opponent was doing that. (Not that I could hang with a player with those skillz though.)

 

[Gp1]

And even if they are similar, i see both of them as games with very different philosophies.

Q3 is more focused on DM and "polished" and UT was all about content, different game modes (Assault was awesome), the engine is modable and flexible, and even the single player with bots was good.

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

I still don't understand why Unreal Tournament 4 was abandoned, or why Unreal Tournament isn't on the Epic Games Store at all.

Fortnite. Battle Royale started kicking off and they saw the amount of interest there was and literally just walked away. Which makes things even crazier since they had a mod community that was making assets and maps for free, it was going to be a community built game. Next thing you know, EPIC just didnt bother communicating anymore and the rest is history (with Fortnite).

 

[AlteredForms]

Even if they had someone on the inside, it would be almost impossible to shift development focus and release it in a year, both games being highly regarded. You can not say one game is better than the other, its about your taste but one thing we can say is both games are polished and have their huge following. I watched many documentaries, interviews etc and still don't understand how did they both think at the same time that it is time to do an arena shooter MP only title. I can understand Carmack being bored of single player but how did Epic get to that same conclusion when their flagship game was insanely popular, how did they not go into production of Unreal 2 right away with a better engine, but instead went all in on the MP, which by the way I dont remember being that popular when Unreal 1 was out. Quake was still king.

In the end we got two amazing games but how did they both go with the same focus without following a "trend" first, I have no clue.

Unreal Tournament was much better than Quake III: Arena and I'm somebody who has played both games extensively. One of the criticisms with Quake III was the overall lack of content and this was due to Carmack focusing on smaller teams, it doesn't help too that the maps were cramped and overall lacking in atmosphere, though some were enjoyable from a thematic standpoint. One of the reasons why both franchises are intertwined is due to their history. Quake was a brown and muddy shooter which took place mostly indoors, Unreal was designed to be the exact opposite with lush tropical environments and a much varied colour pallet. Unreal Tournament was originally intended to be a free multiplayer bot pack for Unreal, but Mark Rein was adamant to develop it into a fully fledged game, no doubt due to Quake I and II's strong multiplayer presence. Hopefully that answers your question regarding how both franchises have such similar histories.

 

[Elder Legend]

UT2004 was amazeballs

 

[AlteredForms]

UT2004 was amazeballs

For once you don't say something completely crazy. God bless the Sunshine State.

 

[Elder Legend]

For once you don't say something completely crazy. God bless the Sunshine State.

Just because I say something that doesn't align with your views sometimes doesn't mean I am crazy you silly goose.

 

[AlteredForms]

Just because I say something that doesn't align with your views sometimes doesn't mean I am crazy you silly goose.

Writing about your friend jacking off is pretty crazy dude. But alas, let's forget about that and focus on the topic at hand. UT easily beats Q3, on the whole the Unreal franchise has had more success in terms of critical scores. Quake on the other hand has been more successful financially.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Nobody in modern day is going to play sci fi arena style FPS. It's all about military and Fortnite style. And for the games that are sci-fi, Destiny and Apex are way different than Quake and Unreal.

One thing to adjust, maybe if old school shooters didn't move at 200 mph zipping around doing 20 ft jumps in the air like someone is on steroids, you'd get more fans playing them at a normal game pacing.

I played Unreal Tournament back in the day. Ya it was fun shooting and picking the map server I wanted etc... but military games are way better. Also, lightning fast arena shooters are best played with m/kb. They arent suited for console gamepad gaming.

 

[Elder Legend]

Writing about your friend jacking off is pretty crazy dude. But alas, let's forget about that and focus on the topic at hand. UT easily beats Q3, on the whole the Unreal franchise has had more success in terms of critical scores. Quake on the other hand has been more successful financially.

You are acting like I saw my friend doing it in front of me. Me finding a porno disc in his PS3 doesn't was just a funny situation. You are taking that way too seriously. Let it go. It really is just a silly story.

On topic - I never played Q3 that much, but tbh UT2004 was my first real foray into arena shooters. I tried others like Tribes and hated it. Counter Strike Source and UT2004 were my main competitive games at the time.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I must had missed the post or thread you two are talking about. lol. If its still on GAF please share the link. Sounds hilarious.

 

[Elder Legend]

I must had missed the post or thread you two are talking about. lol. If its still on GAF please share the link. Sounds hilarious.

Have fun.

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/embaraasing-moments-during-video-game-sessions.1654792/

 

[tygertrip]

Not even close this game has no sauce it's the blandest shit ever...

Quake 3 Arena and UT 99 are from a era where games were made to be fun first, this game you posted always wanted to be a "e-sport" first and that never works.

I really miss the god ol Arena Shooters as well I was just teaching my son his to play Q3 arena last week, on my region there's still some dedicated servers but unfortunately most of the time they are empty or just filled with bots.

My ninja… about a year ago me and my oldest son finally installed and played some Q3A (I was a Quake FANATIC back in the day… 300 ms ping and everything!). Took a bit of finagling to get it working, but we got it running, networked and all. First night, he kicked my ass, his reflexes were just so much better. I couldn’t believe it… I used to dominate… but I was just so rusty with the maps. After all it had been literally 20 years since I played it regularly (for you youngsters, Quake is all about map control, running routes, weapon denial, armor denial, prediction, misdirection, and what not). Well, the next day it started coming back to me… and I STOMPED HIS ASS. At least 10 to 1 frag ratio,every map. Oh man, he didn’t talk any more shit after that! To his credit, he played online for a month or so and got better. Nowadays we (including my youngest) sometimes play Halo Infinite, and he usually wins (by a little). Of course, HI is a pansy ass, reflex-focused, dumbed down console kiddie game compared to Q3A (yes, I’m coping), but I’m so proud!

P.S. Halo fanatics, I am just joking… I LOVE Halo Infinite!

 

[tygertrip]

I'd like to think they created the trend by being godtier but the truth is that doom and quake MP was a thing for years before either game came out, plus with the internet's rise around the turn of the millenium it only made sense
I actually used to think Quake 3 was lame since it had no singleplayer campaign but god it's fucking fun.... when you can find real people to play with!!

Did you never go to LAN parties? Or were you too young? Those were the shit, tons of people playing Quake and UT, some dominating, others too fucked up on liquor and reefer to compete, lol. For real, pot, acid,and shrooms were usually flowing… sometimes I think it must have been similar to 60s parties, only with deathmatch!

 

[64bitmodels]

New relevant video:

Actually really liked this video, it exposed the flaws of arena shooters and really opened my eyes to why the genre was left in the first place. The genre really just stagnated and couldn't innovate much longer. The old kings have gone their own ways, ID making quality singleplayer FPS games and Epic.... ruining the multiplayer shooter industry. People wanted more from a shooter than to rocket jump like crazy going fast, not to mention that new players couldn't do that when they were consistently without fail getting bodied by people who'd been playing for 3-5 years

Not to mention that these games are pretty much only fun in deathmatch/team deathmatch, whereas other shooters are more flexible and extend themselves to other modes such as CTF, race, gun game, battle royale, etc etc etc. Won't stop me from loving them though.

Games like Splitgate, Ultrakill and Titanfall 2 illustrate that the genre has a lot more potential than just Quake 3 and UT04 but it's kind of gone these days.

 

[tygertrip]

Since we're posting vids and talking about graphics, here's how Q3 looks when you're playing it seriously

At one of the LAN parties I went to, I was sitting next to a guy that had recently won like $20k in a Q3A competition (btw, he DOMINATED at this 2.5 day long LAN party of about a 100 people… I don’t doubt it at all). Anyway, he had his Q3 graphics stripped down exactly like that. Thanks for the memories!

 

[Crayon]

Oh and you know, a lot more young people were coming into the workforce in offices where you could have an hour of LAN party every night after you clocked out lol.