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[sonycowboy]

Yes, this has been out there for quite awhile, but it's really picking up steam. Expect reports from major media outlets in the next week or so. (Is God of War next?)

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/08/news_6128759.html

ESRB investigating San Andreas sex minigames
Ratings board embarks on "thorough and objective investigation" of claims that Rockstar bestseller had explicit content hidden in code.

Today, one of the most popular recent game-industry rumors showed signs of turning into a very real scandal.

Prompted by a verbal lashing from California assemblyman Leland Yee (D-San Francisco), the Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB) today said it was launching an investigation into whether Rockstar Games' bestseller Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas contained sexually explicit minigames hidden in its code.

ESRB president Patricia Vance said her organization has "opened an investigation into the circumstances surrounding the 'Hot Coffee' modification." "Hot Coffee" refers to the mod which, when installed on a PC with San Andreas on it, unlocks several minigames which prompts players to have the game's hero in X-rated acts.

The ESRB's investigation will examine whether or not the mod unlocks pre-existing code, as appears to be the case, or is actually a purely third-party creation. Its ultimate purpose will be to determine if Take-Two violated ESRB regulations requiring "full disclosure of pertinent content."

"The integrity of the ESRB rating system is founded on the trust of consumers who increasingly depend on it to provide complete and accurate information about what's in a game. If after a thorough and objective investigation of all the relevant facts surrounding this modification, we determine a violation of our rules has occurred, we will take appropriate action," Vance said in a statement released this morning.

GameSpot will update this developing story as events unfold.

 

[monchi-kun]

GoW didn't show anything though. The game in question was the PC version that required multiple steps in order to unlock. Rockstar fucked up....but Yee is a douche.

 

[sangreal]

heh, it would've been rated M anyway.

see: Playboy: The Mansion

 

[DarienA]

Did Rockstar ever comment on whether this stuff is actually hidden in there?

Sounds like the shit is about to hit the fan for them if it is... which wasn't too smart to begin with if it is.

heh, it would've been rated M anyway.

see: Playboy: The Mansion

No I think the screens I saw showed a bit more than the Playboy game does.

 

[Teddman]

Don't you need a cheat device to even access that scene, and the sex takes place fully clothed...

If such a scene were in a movie, it would be fine in a PG-13. The ESRB has no call to be investigating. For God's sake, don't take a crackpot like Leland Yee seriously...

 

[Ranger X]

Interesting nonetheless.
But i feel this whole story is already at a lame douche-bag level.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Howabout these people start sending Rockstar money instead of doing things like this. Because that's all they're really doing.

 

[sonycowboy]

GoW didn't show anything though

It shows booobies. I know it's quite a bit different, but it's quite possible that that one section could cause it to be lumped in by the media. Unlikely, because it's not nearly as high profile, but possible nonetheless.

 

[ronito]

So wait....gunning down cops-fine, running over innocent people -okay, armed robbery - understandable, setting up a prostitution ring - no problem, sex scene - OH MY GOSH!!! HOW DARE YOU!!!!

 

[Funky Papa]

I hope they don't replay Riddick

 

[sonycowboy]

So wait....gunning down cops-fine, running over innocent people -okay, armed robbery - understandable, setting up a prostitution ring - no problem, sex scene - OH MY GOSH!!! HOW DARE YOU!!!!

Good point, but ...

Have you seen the sex scenes? :lol

 

[sangreal]

No I think the screens I saw showed a bit more than the Playboy game does.

How? The only difference I see is GTA:SA's sex is fully clothed while PB:TM has top nudity

 

[Leatherface]

So wait....gunning down cops-fine, running over innocent people -okay, armed robbery - understandable, setting up a prostitution ring - no problem, sex scene - OH MY GOSH!!! HOW DARE YOU!!!!

:lol so true.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

They are just trying to nail this franchise with something after years of not being able to

 

[akascream]

So wait....gunning down cops-fine, running over innocent people -okay, armed robbery - understandable, setting up a prostitution ring - no problem, sex scene - OH MY GOSH!!! HOW DARE YOU!!!!

Haha.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

This is so fucking lame.

 

[sonycowboy]

Howabout these people start sending Rockstar money instead of doing things like this. Because that's all they're really doing.

If this were available on the PS2, I think this would push the game to well over another million copies, but since it's the PC and involves a mod, it shouldn't have a huge effect on thier revenue.

 

[DopeyFish]

and still after over 10 years of rating games, they still have no clue how they are made.

 

[Reilly]

It shows booobies.

I think the difference in that is that it was portraying clothing styles of the women during that time period. Sort of like Nation Geographic magazines with women showing their boobs isn't considered porn. It wasn't tasteless...I think...

 

[MattKeil]

Oh no, the token self-policing ratings board is going to say mean things about the most recognizable franchise of the generation! Rockstar executives chuckle, roll over in their beds stuffed with $100 bills, go back to sleep.

 

[Blackace]

I WANT TO SEE THE SEX SCENES. :lol

google...

 

[Blackace]

They are just trying to nail this franchise with something after years of not being able to

exactly the whole Al Capone thing all over again

 

[Ranger X]

So wait....gunning down cops-fine, running over innocent people -okay, armed robbery - understandable, setting up a prostitution ring - no problem, sex scene - OH MY GOSH!!! HOW DARE YOU!!!!

Yep. You just realise the irony of censorship in this world. It's good to hide sex (that is natural and fun) but it's ok to show violence (wich is not right no matter how you put it).

 

[teruterubozu]

Don't you need a cheat device to even access that scene, and the sex takes place fully clothed...

Actually, CJ is fully clothed but the girl is buck naked...at least in the video clip going around.

In the screens they are fully clothed.

 

[Tritroid]

:lol :lol :lol

Just found the screens.

 

[masud]

Just saw the vid, rock* definitely put it in there, it has voice acting and everything. The game would probably be AO if it weren’t hidden so I think these guys have a case. But it is funny what constitutes AO and what doesn't.

edit:

Yep. You just realise the irony of censorship in this world. It's good to hide sex (that is natural and fun) but it's ok to show violence (wich is not right no matter how you put it).

Not this world, America.

 

[Mallrat83]

I think the ESRB has a perfectly justifiable case. I think those sex scenes are crossing the line a bit too much. I mean, if there even is a line anymore.

 

[teruterubozu]

I think the ESRB has a perfectly justifiable case. I think those sex scenes are crossing the line a bit too much. I mean, if there even is a line anymore.

The ESRB is going to hit a major gray area with this. The portion was not meant to be played by consumers and yet they are accessible through certain methods...how do you deal with that?

 

[Neex]

but it's ok to show violence (wich is not right no matter how you put it)

I know a few people who could justly use the good old one-two.

 

[Ranger X]

Just saw the vid, rock* definitely put it in there, it has voice acting and everything. The game would probably be AO if it weren’t hidden so I think these guys have a case. But it is funny what constitutes AO and what doesn't.

edit:

Not this world, America.

Well, of course i don't know about all other's countries censorship law but sex is censored before violence pretty much everywhere i guess.

 

[bishoptl]

Don't you need a cheat device to even access that scene, and the sex takes place fully clothed...

If such a scene were in a movie, it would be fine in a PG-13.

:lol Too true. Fully clothed dry humping and simulated oral sex. Sounds like American Pie. GO ROCKSTAR

 

[masud]

Well, of course i don't know about all other's countries censorship law but sex is censored before violence pretty much everywhere i guess.

Watch some european tv.

:lol Too true. Fully clothed dry humping and simulated oral sex. Sounds like American Pie. GO ROCKSTAR

The chick is butt ass naked.

 

[Mr_Furious]

This is so fucking lame.

.

 

[Ranger X]

Watch some european tv.

Too expensive. Don't like TV programs in general

 

[LakeEarth]

Watch some european tv.

Or Canadian channels for that matter.

 

[Ranger X]

Or Canadian channels for that matter.

True that we are "less worse" than the US on this matter. Canadian pride +1

 

[LakeEarth]

True that we are "less worse" than the US on this matter. Canadian pride +1

CityTV 1am movies on Saturday + 1!

I remember watching the Canadian Spanish channel and watching some 1am soap opera, not that I knew what they were saying I was just looking at the hot chicks when suddenly two characters start going at it like softcore porn wise. That was a shocker, came out of fucking nowhere.

 

[ourumov]

You the man ! Oh yeah ! You the man !

 

[Pimpwerx]

First of all, the game is rated M for Mature. That means anyone who buys the game should be of legal age to view porn.

Second, isn't the ESRB just a stupid advisory board? WTF are they gonna do? Fuck 'em. If they want to make an issue of it, Rock* should just forego ESRB approval and sell their games direct. GTA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ESRB. The ESRB was a fucking mistake in the first place. No one gives a shit about their stupid ratings anyway. If one store clerk actually takes himself seriously enough to deny a kid an M game, then that kid can just go to one of the dozens of other game stores nearby and get it. I suppose video game violence isn't a hot enough topic anymore. Now the ESRB needs to keep itself relevant by nitpicking other pointless shit. PEACE.

 

[Oracle Dragon]

First of all, the game is rated M for Mature. That means anyone who buys the game should be of legal age to view porn.

Second, isn't the ESRB just a stupid advisory board? WTF are they gonna do? Fuck 'em. If they want to make an issue of it, Rock* should just forego ESRB approval and sell their games direct. GTA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ESRB. The ESRB was a fucking mistake in the first place. No one gives a shit about their stupid ratings anyway. If one store clerk actually takes himself seriously enough to deny a kid an M game, then that kid can just go to one of the dozens of other game stores nearby and get it. I suppose video game violence isn't a hot enough topic anymore. Now the ESRB needs to keep itself relevant by nitpicking other pointless shit. PEACE.

Well, "M" rating is 17 or over. Isn't porn 18? Hence the "AO" rating. Of course, I guess it could be different in different states. I think here in Canada the age is lower in Quebec.

 

[Ranger X]

Well, "M" rating is 17 or over. Isn't porn 18? Hence the "AO" rating. Of course, I guess it could be different in different states. I think here in Canada the age is lower in Quebec.

Here in Quebec it's 18 year old to access porn stuff.
The very problem with the ESRB ratings is the age of "M" being 17 imo. It should have been 18 and that's all. No troubles would have happened.

 

[Mashing]

The ESRB is going to hit a major gray area with this. The portion was not meant to be played by consumers and yet they are accessible through certain methods...how do you deal with that?

That's bullshit, they put it int he game... whether it's accessible or not is not the issue... they are ACCOUNTABLE for ANY content in their game. That's the bottom line. R* is going to be paying a shitload for a settlement if they don't want ESRB to change the rating to AO.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Well, "M" rating is 17 or over. Isn't porn 18? Hence the "AO" rating. Of course, I guess it could be different in different states. I think here in Canada the age is lower in Quebec.

how is that porn? Do you see polygonal penetration? Plenty of movies have graphic sex scenes (boogie nights, unfaithful come to mind) and aren't labeled as porn or given X ratings.

 

[Oracle Dragon]

how is that porn? Do you see polygonal penetration? Plenty of movies have graphic sex scenes (boogie nights, unfaithful come to mind) and aren't labeled as porn or given X ratings.

I dont think its porn at all. However, if you read the post that I was responding to, what I said makes a lot more sense.

First of all, the game is rated M for Mature. That means anyone who buys the game should be of legal age to view porn.

 

[Bluecondor]

Interesting.....

I can see the ESRB nailing R* on the grounds of not disclosing all of the game's content, which is what R* agrees to do in order to have the game certified by the ESRB. While we can criticize the ESRB all we want, the greater point is that R* benefits from ESRB ratings, because this allows them to put out a game like GTA:SA, and still get the approval of the ESRB according to its criteria. Again - we can criticize the ESRB's criteria all we want, but, R* , like any other developer, comes to the ESRB to get a rating that is essential for retailers - especially in the case of game like this with controversial content. If there were no ESRB, you can bet that developers that push the envelope would get way more heat, and retailers like EB, Gamestop, and the big boys (Wal-Mart, Target) would probably face a great deal of public criticism for selling such provocative games.

R* is really being short-sighted in not disclosing this content to the ESRB. Now, R* will appear like it wants to receive the benefits of ESRB-compliance without fully participating in the process.

And - the whole "but you can only access this through a hack" argument just isn't going to fly here. The ESRB requirement that all content must be submitted is pretty straightforward, and, especially in the case of something so salcious like this, I don't see them buying the "we didn't feel that we had to submit it, because you can only get to this through a hack." R*, in particular, knows that people hack their games to no end.

The only defense I see them having here is the rather weak "we thought we took it out" or "the programmers told us they took it out." But - if you have followed any of the huge lawsuits for corporate scandals lately, courts and regulatory agencies are absolutely not accepting companies whose defense for corporate crime is "top management didn't know about it. It was our lower level employees." As the huge penalties given to the CEOs in Tyco, Worldcom, Enron, etc., show, top management is being held legally accountable for the legal transgressions of their lower level employees.

This will be interesting.....

 

[xsarien]

So wait....gunning down cops-fine, running over innocent people -okay, armed robbery - understandable, setting up a prostitution ring - no problem, sex scene - OH MY GOSH!!! HOW DARE YOU!!!!

Welcome to the United States of America.

 

[Mashing]

Sigh, you guys really don't see the issue here. The actual "porn" is not the problem, the fact that R* failed to disclose the information that such content exists in the game is the problem. For example, it's the same principle (not nearly on the same scale of course) as Bill Clinton lying to Congress about Monica Lewinsky. The Congress gave two shits if he was getting blow jobs from interns, their problem was that he lied to them about the issue.

 

[whytemyke]

Mashing hits it on the head. Its about Rockstar not disclosing the info. If they don't bring the hammer down, how long will it be til they put out an online mod for a system that pulls this shit in other games? ESRB will probably be VERY unfriendly to Rockstar for awhile now, and Rockstar SHOULD be very, very concerned, because regardless of how much people like GTA series, Sony will cease to put the game on their system if the ESRB isn't down with it. Look what they did with BMX:XXX... the game had nudity to the point that it pissed a lot of people off, so Sony made Akklame take it out or else they wouldn't be put on the system at all.

I think Rockstar really does need to worry about this.

 

[Zaptruder]

Sigh, you guys really don't see the issue here. The actual "porn" is not the problem, the fact that R* failed to disclose the information that such content exists in the game is the problem. For example, it's the same principle (not nearly on the same scale of course) as Bill Clinton lying to Congress about Monica Lewinsky. The Congress gave two shits if he was getting blow jobs from interns, their problem was that he lied to them about the issue.

Well, it's not intentionally accessible. Moreover, if I understand it right, it requires an external patch to get it working, which is akin to having users create custom content and blaming the company of the game for allowing the content to be released.

and if they care a lick about practical effects, they won't push it much further then that, less they bring attention to the fact that this stuff exists, and this is how you avoid it (access it). But this is america... where sense is a poor cousin to litigation.

 

[xsarien]

Sigh, you guys really don't see the issue here. The actual "porn" is not the problem, the fact that R* failed to disclose the information that such content exists in the game is the problem. For example, it's the same principle (not nearly on the same scale of course) as Bill Clinton lying to Congress about Monica Lewinsky. The Congress gave two shits if he was getting blow jobs from interns, their problem was that he lied to them about the issue.

Oh, I get it. R* and the ESRB are obviously going to have words on the issue. Because, to be honest, if they allow Take-Two to get away with this, then other companies will just point to the issue when any rating-altering easter eggs in their games are exposed. I take no issue with the content, nor...any of this for that matter. But if the ESRB wants to bring the hammer down because of it, they're justified in doing so.

The ESRB exists mostly because the industry didn't want government-mandated ratings. Not honoring that gets the attention of senators who would be all too happy to rate games for the developers instead.