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[jmdajr]

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/nov/09/seaworld-san-diego-phase-out-killer-whale-show/

SeaWorld intends to phase out its longstanding killer whale show at its San Diego park next year as part of a comprehensive strategy unveiled Monday to re-position the embattled company amid persistent criticisms of how it treats its orcas....

In its place would be a new orca experience debuting in 2017, described as "informative" and designed to take place in a more natural setting that would carry a "conservation message inspiring people to act." The announcement is contained in a company document posted online in advance of a webcast this morning in which SeaWorld Entertainment CEO Joel Manby and other senior executives will unveil their vision for the company and its collection of 11 parks.

Wow that movie made a HUGE impact. It's the right thing to do.

edit: whales will still be there. Just no more tricks.

 

[disappeared]

.

 

[Gonzalez]

YES!

Lolita is a hot ticket again.

 

[bangbang i'm a timpani]

so they're still keeping whales in captivity?

 

[Fuchsdh]

so they're still keeping whales in activity?

Captivity, you mean? Yeah.

 

[perfectchaos007]

so they're still keeping whales in activity?

captivity?

Yeah and its safer to live at SeaWorld than in the Ocean. I haven't seen Blackfish though maybe they debunk my perception

 

[Inferno313]

It's a nice half-step. Honestly though, I'm not really comfortable with any animals being in captivity aside from domesticated species or individuals that couldn't survive in the wild.

 

[DrArchon]

Good on them for finally doing this.

Hope that they'll phase out orcas in their parks altogether, but for those that can't go back into the wild for whatever reason this hopefully will be better.

 

[Skyward Sheep]

Blackfish really had one hell of an impact, a massive well done to those guys.

 

[entremet]

captivity?

Yeah and its safer to live at SeaWorld than in the Ocean. I haven't seen Blackfish though maybe they debunk my perception

Most captive animals life longer than their non-captive counterparts. Nature is not forgiving.

However, captive animals tend to have other health problems from their captivity.

 

[Stumpokapow]

SeaWorld opens March, 1964, does captive killer whale shows

Blackfish debuts July, 2013.

CEO of SeaWorld, November, 2013:

"I scratch my head if there's any notable impact from this film at all, and I can't attribute one to it," the CEO said in an interview, adding: "Ironically, our attendance has improved since the movie came out."

CEO of SeaWorld, March, 2014:

“As much as we’re asked that, we can see no noticeable impact on our business,” he said, calling assertions the company mistreats animals “a fundamental mischaracterization.” “The movie in some ways has actually made perhaps more interest in marine mammal parks and actually even about us, so we’ve seen that reflected through certain visitor profiles and certain guest comments and things we get.”

SeaWorld press release, August, 2014:

"the Company believes attendance in the quarter was impacted by demand pressures related to recent media attention surrounding proposed legislation in the state of California."

CEO of SeaWorld steps down December 2014

November, 2015:
SeaWorld announces fundamental rethink of business model and their major attraction

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Orcas are too large, have too big of territories, and are too intelligent to be kept in captivity.

As much as I love seeing them, they should really phase out all captive Orcas all together.

 

[MattKeil]

Most captive animals life longer than their non-captive counterparts. Nature is not forgiving.

However, captive animals tend to have other health problems from their captivity.

Evidence is mounting that orcas can live 70-80 years in the wild, compared to a maximum of about 30 in captivity. Captivity is not healthy for open ocean animals.

 

[bangbang i'm a timpani]

Captivity, you mean? Yeah.

yea whoops. phone.

 

[bangbang i'm a timpani]

is it feasible to release a captive orca into the wild? curious if thats just not an option.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Evidence is mounting that orcas can live 70-80 years in the wild, compared to a maximum of about 30 in captivity. Captivity is not healthy for open ocean animals.

Open ocean, apex predators with huge migration systems and a vast, complex social system.

Not much threatens an Orca out there. I don't believe they're even threatened by humans all that much, at least compared to other marine life.

 

[entremet]

Evidence is mounting that orcas can live 70-80 years in the wild, compared to a maximum of about 30 in captivity. Captivity is not healthy for open ocean animals.

Wow. That's a huge difference!

I'm guessing the lack of exercise (the vast ocean being available to you compared to a tank) and possible social isolation--orcas are very social--are culprits. Orca pods are much bigger than places like Sea World can maintain.

 

[Inferno313]

Most captive animals life longer than their non-captive counterparts. Nature is not forgiving.

However, captive animals tend to have other health problems from their captivity.

Life length =/= quality of life though. There have been a handful of studies that show that many different kinds of animals develop mental health issues in captivity.

 

[shira]

Can we just phase out Sea World. Nobody wants to watch slave fish perform anymore

Their stock has been cut in half ever since Blackfish

 

[sometimes i game]

That picture is so haunting. This is the motherfucking T-Rex of the ocean. It's as smart as a human. They spend every second with their family and have their own dialects, diets and specialized hunting strategies to get that food. And we mix them all up and put them in swimming pools so that they can jump through colored hoops for amusement.

The ones remaining in these chlorine cement pools need to be put into open sea pens to live out their lives and this all has to be put in the past as this unbelievably dumb thing humans did that one time.

 

[SilentRacoon]

SeaWorld opens March, 1964, does captive killer whale shows

Blackfish debuts July, 2013.

CEO of SeaWorld, November, 2013:


CEO of SeaWorld, March, 2014:


SeaWorld press release, August, 2014:


CEO of SeaWorld steps down December 2014

November, 2015:
SeaWorld announces fundamental rethink of business model and their major attraction

Hope they phase out their whole business the next time.

 

[entremet]

Life length =/= quality of life though. There have been a handful of studies that show that many different kinds of animals develop mental health issues in captivity.

Yeah, you're right about that.

I remember reading how captive gorillas were getting heart attacks and diabetes because they were feeding them a corn based chow.

Gorillas getting these diseases in the wild is not heard since that kind of food is not available.

The replaced their diets with lettuces and green vegetables and they got better.

 

[Bronx-Man]

Damn, just two years and Blackfish has already has this big an impact.

 

[dork]

so they're still keeping whales in captivity?

Putting them back in the wild would just be sending them to die. This will hopefully stop the breading for captivity though

 

[ahoyle77]

Evidence is mounting that orcas can live 70-80 years in the wild, compared to a maximum of about 30 in captivity. Captivity is not healthy for open ocean animals.

Can you show me this mounting evidence? Also, they have a 50+ year old whale now, so your maximum of about 30 years is only off by over 20 years. I dont want tovargue the pros and cons of captivity, but at least state your "facts" right.

 

[MattKeil]

Putting them back in the wild would just be sending them to die. This will hopefully stop the breading for captivity though

Mmmm...breaded whale.

 

[mariachi507]

Hopefully they will stop acquiring and breeding orcas as well. It's unfortunate that the current orcas have to be confined to smaller pools that they need, but I don't see any way they could be released back to the ocean at this point. Correct me if I'm wrong, really though I would like to know more about this.

 

[TheDinoman]

So if SeaWorld were to get phased out in general, what would happen to their actual rides (Kraken, Manta, etc)?

 

[MattKeil]

Can you show me this mounting evidence? Also, they have a 50+ year old whale now, so your maximum of about 30 years is only off by over 20 years. I dont want tovargue the pros and cons of captivity, but at least state your "facts" right.

I did state them right, thanks. Outliers don't change anything.

https://www.thedodo.com/orca-lifespan-captivity-1102374453.html

"In regard to the captivity debate, specifically, the survival to age milestones data does undermine recent claims made by SeaWorld that its whales live just as long as killer whales in the wild," Dr. Jeffrey Ventre, a co-author of the paper and a former SeaWorld trainer, told The Dodo. "The evidence suggests otherwise."

Globally, 63 percent of the whales who died in captivity before 2014 had been in captivity for fewer than six years, according to the paper. The researchers point out that these deaths occur despite the fact that the animals are free from predators and other environmental stressors. Only eight of those whales made it past their 30th year in captivity.

The research did show that after 1985, when many orca tanks in the U.S. became large enough to allow mothers to properly nurse their calves, survival rates increased. Still, they write, survival "is remarkably poorer for captive killer whales than for wild whales."

On its website, SeaWorld, which owns all but one of the captive orcas in the U.S., states that "the average life expectancy of southern and northern resident killer whales is about 29 years for females and 17 years for males." These numbers do not match with government estimates for the same population of whales — the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration says that males live on average for 30 years, but can live as long as 50 to 60 years, while females live 50 years but can live as long as 100 years.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

captivity?

Yeah and its safer to live at SeaWorld than in the Ocean. I haven't seen Blackfish though maybe they debunk my perception

My brother told me something to the effect of "orcas live 40 years in the ocean but only 10 years in captivity", or something along those lines.

edit: yeah, MattKeil said it better.

 

[Volimar]

Kind of ironic. No one would care about Orcas if it weren't for Sea World. They lived long enough to become the villains. They really ought to release them. Still I'd hate to see them go out of business with the rescue work they do. I suppose there are plenty of aquatic animals that do well in captivity.

 

[ahoyle77]

I did state them right, thanks. Outliers don't change anything.

https://www.thedodo.com/orca-lifespan-captivity-1102374453.html

You understand the difference in Maximum and average? Right?

 

[msdstc]

The movie touches on a lot of good points, but it also spreads speculation as fact far too often.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Don't really care about their whale shows or shows in general. So no love lost with the Orca shows being phased out. I rarely watched those.

But I don't get just shut everything down comments. With the whale shows ending, they become closer to a standard zoo or aquarium, no? Of course they're for profit but it seems they do actually do a lot with conservation/rescue and other things? I also like the chill atmosphere vs Disney and Universal and they by far have the best food. Goddam.

 

[GKSilKamina]

Well, it's a start. I wonder if they'll ever reintroduce those whales back to the wild.

 

[Roo]

I should watch Blackfish one of these days.
Never did and it is currently available on Netflix.


I agree with some people here tho. No animal should be in captivity (unless their species is in imminent danger) and that includes zoos.

Last time I went to my local zoo was like.. 15 years ago and I remember some animals were in deplorable conditions. Such a shame.

 

[MicH]

YES!

Lolita is a hot ticket again.

I watched a documentary about Lolita and the Seaquarium and it made me incredibly sad She's been doing the same shitty shows for 40 years

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Well, it's a start. I wonder if they'll ever reintroduce those whales back to the wild.

I don't think that would be possible. They wouldn't have the skills to know what to do and a human can only teach an orca so much about how to be an orca.

The best case scenario is to phase out the orca program entirely and let the ones stuck in captivity live out their lives as best as possible.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Evidence is mounting that orcas can live 70-80 years in the wild, compared to a maximum of about 30 in captivity. Captivity is not healthy for open ocean animals.

Yeah but you don't factor in that these Orcas grew up in captivity. Adjusting to living in the wild would be...well consider how you as a human, would adjust to be thrown into the wild

 

[internetwolf]

took them long enough >_>

 

[PandaShake]

To those having not seen blackfish yet, I recommend watching it on a Monday, I guess today, when it's already the saddest day of the week. You don't want to ruin your weekend after seeing the mind numbing life of a living being living in captivity for decades.

I was optimistic after reading OP's title until I read the text and it just seems Seaworld will just being doing the show differently.

 

[GustyGardens]

is it feasible to release a captive orca into the wild? curious if thats just not an option.

That's not really something that can happen, honestly. These whales were bred and raised in captivity, thus lack much of the social and survival skills they'd learn from being out in the wild. They would die very quickly.

 

[Bear Force One]

No more in captivity breeding. Rescue whales only. Progress.

 

[Kreed]

captivity?

Yeah and its safer to live at SeaWorld than in the Ocean. I haven't seen Blackfish though maybe they debunk my perception

They talk about the behavior/physical problems these whales have in captivity in Blackfish (which lead to many of the Whale show trainer injuries/deaths), in addition to their living conditions and how they are captured in the first place.

 

[Charcoal]

This is a good first step, and the right thing to do. Good job, SeaWorld.

 

[Ryaaan14]

About fucking time

 

[Clefargle]

Alright, this is good. Let's keep pushing until it's all over.

 

[Gonzalez]

I watched a documentary about Lolita and the Seaquarium and it made me incredibly sad She's been doing the same shitty shows for 40 years

You shut up! There is nothing on this earth more entertaining than watching Lolita swimming around in a bathtub!

 

[everyday math]

Well if they're gonna keep the whales. Rather that they don't. But hopefully they keep then from getting bored and depressed. :/

Sitting in a tank all day sounds torturous.

 

[TwoDurans]

The whale show was good, but I don't know if I'd call it "killer."