winjer
Gold Member
Then why are you going on about this stuff? Are you trolling?
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Shinzo Abe: Japan ex-PM injured after reported gunshot attack [Update: RIP]
- Thread starter killatopak
- Start date
- News Drama
Then why are you going on about this stuff? Are you trolling?
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
Edit: beaten to the punch.
Guys, you're not going to believe this. Greek TV channel ANT1, flashed a couple of Hideo Kojima photos as the alleged killer of ex-PM Shinzo Abe.
Go at 1:44
[/URL]
Watching this unfold, using Kojima...and going all the way back to Metal Gear Solid 2's AI speech at the end of the game on how information would circulate in the future (from a 2000 perspective) is honestly incredible and a huge irony when you think about it.
Pilgrimzero
Member
How about we do like this man did, if you can BUILD your own gun, you can keep it.
InfiniteCombo
Banned
Fuz
Banned
Yes.
lostinblue
Banned
Well yeah, but a lot of people in Japan do, they don't even teach it properly in school.
Not a useful narrative. Not defending that, but I doubt he was murdered over something foreign like that.
He was an important person, think of him as someone with the gravitas of a Angela Merkel for Germany.
He got credited for refocusing Japanese economy and putting it on a growth path again.
There was a lot not to like in regards to international policies but he was always a democratic leader that put japan first. he was right wing, yes but putting him in the same phrase as Trump is a mistake. Trump is only right wing for as long as that serves him, there's no ideology, only commodity.
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InfiniteCombo
Banned
TheDreadBaron
Member
Dawg chill. They didn't say that, they were just wondering if he was a good person, I admit I had the same thought myself. Of course murder is wrong, but what was the motive? Is the shooter nuts or did he have some kind of justification (in his mind) relating to past actions of the former PM? in my experience politicians are all pieces of shit who abuse their power and trust so I want to know what the motivation was even though that doesn't excuse murder. does that make sense?
Moon Grape Donut
Member
On ERA
Say you voted for Trump: insta perma-ban.
Laugh at the guy being murdered: it's fine, do it again.
Say you voted for Trump: insta perma-ban.
Laugh at the guy being murdered: it's fine, do it again.
Fuz
Banned
There are more ways to kill a man than just pulling a trigger.
Like creating poverty, division, widening the gap between the people and the elite and so on.
If someone kills himself by jumping out of a window because he lost everything due to the monetary policies of a corrupt politician, that's a murder.
I have no idea what sort of politician Abe was. Just wondering.
Like creating poverty, division, widening the gap between the people and the elite and so on.
If someone kills himself by jumping out of a window because he lost everything due to the monetary policies of a corrupt politician, that's a murder.
I have no idea what sort of politician Abe was. Just wondering.
lostinblue
Banned
From the look of things the murderer thinks that Abe had a connection to a religious group he abhors. So he thought killing him to pass a message was a viable course of action.
It's possible that the murderer is an outcast to society and perhaps unwell mentally.
Well, that's up for discussion but perhaps morally true in some instances and Japanese society is fucked up. People will always die for one reason or the other related to the policies of the time. I think it's relevancy can only be judged in regards to their predecessors, successors, and time it happened. (for instance in the 1928 crash, who was at fault?)
But Japan has been fucked up for decades/centuries now and the amount of hikinomori, and people who commit suicide or die from overwork no small matter. Abe probably didn't help with nationalism and the message for a layered society. But I don't think he deserved it, if anything, no Japanese leader did enough on those fronts, because they are all a bit darwinist/elitists in the fact that you are either a cog in the machine or you don't matter.
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InfiniteCombo
Banned
I get it. But still, murder is just wrong, period (
TheDreadBaron
that's why I admittedly flew off the handle a bit...)I agree with you guys that a majority of politicians are shitty. Maybe even all politicians. But again, in a democratic society, if a politician is shitty, you vote him/her out. If they engage in criminal acts, then you let the justice system of the country run its course.
Fuz
Banned
InfiniteCombo
Banned
Fuz
Banned
Technically, he was elected.
And still technically, voting has no value anymore. It's just a matter of who's richer and pumping more money into his candidate. Democracy doesn't exist anymore, we just have - in the best cases - badly disguised oligarchies.
Anyway, we're wildly OT, I'll cut it here.
InfiniteCombo
Banned
I'm a bit ignorant on this, but to me, it seems that Japan is still largely a peaceful society that respects its elders and authority figures. So this must be absolutely shocking to the nation.
Probably comparable to the reaction here in the United States when President Kennedy was assassinated. Just a massive shockwave of disbelief and sadness.
When was the last time that a high profile Japanese public servant got assassinated?
Probably comparable to the reaction here in the United States when President Kennedy was assassinated. Just a massive shockwave of disbelief and sadness.
When was the last time that a high profile Japanese public servant got assassinated?
YukiOnna
Member
Watching the video where the camera doesn't pan away... he actually could have survived if his security moved. The first shot never hit, they just stare like deers and it's the 2nd that does.
The last major one was with a Japanese short sword: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Inejirō_Asanuma
The other was in 2007 where the Mayor of Nagasaki was shot and killed by a member of the Yakuza.
From the SNS at least it's been utter chaos and fear/shock.
The last major one was with a Japanese short sword: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Inejirō_Asanuma
The other was in 2007 where the Mayor of Nagasaki was shot and killed by a member of the Yakuza.
InfiniteCombo
Banned
Thanks for the info, much appreciated.
I do wonder if the reaction to Abe might be different since he's a higher profile figure, and the last time this happened, it was a Yakuza group (and they're kind of expected to engage in criminal activities), as opposed to a random rogue Joe Schmo.
nikolino840
Member
I Remember that i saw on YouTube a left/right japaneese man (i don't Remember wich side) killed with a katana live on TV in the 60s
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DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
I don't live there, but statistically it has extremely low violent crime rates.
InfiniteCombo
Banned
That's pretty wild, what was the context of this?
TheDreadBaron
Member
I didn't watch the video but that is really sad to hear about the reaction of the security team. It makes you wonder how they were trained, and it seems like they must have been very unprepared for this type of event. I've been in a situation where a gun was fired unexpectedly and it is VERY loud and very disorienting, and unless you have specifically trained to snap into action and protect the target when the bang happens, your fight, flight, or freeze reaction will take over, which will look like you described a bunch of deer in the headlights. They must have thought this could never happen, and didn't train properly for it.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Japan is one of the safest countries in the world.
List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia
These are the 20 safest and most crime-free countries
These countries have the lowest rates of homicide, terrorism, and organized crime as well as a reliable police force, according to a new report.
www.businessinsider.com
a multicultural team of v
Member
Yea but the thing is, that is what security is there for. He doesn't have a massive entourage to shoo away stray dogs, he has a massive entourage to protect against real threats, like assassination attempts. It is just like you don't buy car insurance to protect against a scratch, you buy car insurance to protect against totaling your car.I didn't watch the video but that is really sad to hear about the reaction of the security team. It makes you wonder how they were trained, and it seems like they must have been very unprepared for this type of event. I've been in a situation where a gun was fired unexpectedly and it is VERY loud and very disorienting, and unless you have specifically trained to snap into action and protect the target when the bang happens, your fight, flight, or freeze reaction will take over, which will look like you described a bunch of deer in the headlights. They must have thought this could never happen, and didn't train properly for it.
It is a really bad look.
TheDreadBaron
Member
Totally agree, that’s why I’m speculating there was a failure in training stemming from their belief this kind of thing was extremely unlikely. Day to day they are just shooing away stray dogs, nobody thinks today is the day I will have to jump in front of a bullet in a country where shootings are extremely rare. I just sympathize with the security who failed to act likely due to lack of training and will probably now feel deeply ashamed for having failed in their duty.
lostinblue
Banned
Not to mention that it doesn't exactly go well on their CV.
Epic Sax CEO
Banned
Oh man, such a great day, I was not expecting that Hideo Kojima twist.
Did he tweeted anything about it? He probably receive a few messages about being shown as the gunner, right?
Did he tweeted anything about it? He probably receive a few messages about being shown as the gunner, right?
Thaedolus
Member
Yeah, the great day part threw me off too.
JLB
Banned
I guess it is not cool also on archaic, mercantilistic and authoritarian societies as well.
Craig of War
Banned
RIP
The security was fucking shit dude was standing in the middle of the street talking anyone with bad intention could have killed him easily
Japan need to up their security
The security was fucking shit dude was standing in the middle of the street talking anyone with bad intention could have killed him easily
Japan need to up their security
JLB
Banned
Truth is that is hard to take all possible measures to avoid an assassination of a public figure. US presidents are probably one of the most secured VIP in the world and yet theres a history of successful attacks.
Craig of War
Banned
InfiniteCombo
Banned
Tams
Member
Geez, he could have so easily have been saved.
If it were any Western leader, the leader would have been on the floor immediately after the first shot, a least one bodyguard over them. Not that anyone unknown would have been able to get close in the first place.
Tams
Member
It's shocking to them and others in other countries clearly. But all that is borne out of immense naïvity and ignorance.
They, and many non-Japanese, love to believe in 'Japan the peaceful society'. And while largely they are one of the most, they are at the end of the day just another human society. There are tensions and issues simmering there all over the place. And perhaps keeping a lid on them as much as they do makes it worse.
So I'm not shocked at all. Saddened (even though I don't like Abe)? Absolutely. Angry? Yes, though more at the naïvity of those who let security get this lax.
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Sakura
Member
Yeah. Well when you consider that there are only like 10 shootings a year in Japan, compared to say 30,000+ in the US, it's not hard to understand that they would've been completely unprepared for something like this happening.I didn't watch the video but that is really sad to hear about the reaction of the security team. It makes you wonder how they were trained, and it seems like they must have been very unprepared for this type of event. I've been in a situation where a gun was fired unexpectedly and it is VERY loud and very disorienting, and unless you have specifically trained to snap into action and protect the target when the bang happens, your fight, flight, or freeze reaction will take over, which will look like you described a bunch of deer in the headlights. They must have thought this could never happen, and didn't train properly for it.
I do expect this to change though going forward, and there will probably be a lot of questions regarding the security.
Hopefully this doesn't lead to copy cat crimes in the future. I could see nutjobs being emboldened by this. Every politician has people who despise them.
InfiniteCombo
Banned
Agreed with all your points. Notice on my post I did say "largely peaceful," not entirely peaceful. Such purely peaceful utopia can never exist due to (as you said) human nature, which means that there will ALWAYS be a criminal/law-breaking element in society.
Tams
Member
Yes.
But my point is that how peaceful a country is has little to do with how security of prominent people should be.
It explains largely why his security failed here (and perhaps other Japanese politcians' would), but that's a moot question as it doesn't matter how peaceful a country is. Prominent people will always be at greater risk and that's reason enough to provide them proper security.
InfiniteCombo
Banned
Tams
Member
Still completely unacceptable for a security detail. It the most utterly basic, 'classic' even, attack.
Japan's gun crime statistics should have had nothing to do with it. The complacency from that is the reason, but that does not make it acceptable.
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Sakura
Member
Unacceptable sure. I don't disagree.
I'm just saying that it isn't exactly a surprise that the security was woefully inadequate here.
Unfortunately it usually takes something actually happening before changes are made.
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