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Some thoughts on Halo Infinite from the perspective of someone in it for the lore. Unmarked spoilers inside.

LordOfChaos

Member
First of all, that was the best Halo has been in many years, nearly a decade. It brings in a new energy and excitement to Halo that I really appreciate as someone who always had a soft spot for it, after Guardians was leaving me on the edge of continuing to care. I am quite excited that Halo feels fresh and new again, and I'm far more interested in where it goes now than I was after Guardians. So I just wanted to get that out of the way first.

It does, however, repeat some of 343's biggest storytelling flaws. Here we have the third game in what was first slated to be a contained trilogy but that idea itself was canned, where the main baddy of the last game is swiftly abandoned and a new one comes up for what's next. All throughout the promotional material, I was left wondering, is something more going on with Cortana? Is she still alive somewhere and biding her time? After dispatching the Didact off-screen in a comic after Halo 4, surely they wouldn't do that again...But they did, and while there was a little more going on with Cortana, it did feel like a rug sweep again to get the old story bits they didn't want to deal with done with again largely off-screen apart from some convenient exposition through floating memories.

Halo-Infinite-Boss-Harbinger.jpg


And about that next thing. Here's the big thing with me. To call something a bigger threat than the Flood is a BIG ASS CLAIM to make. And so far, we saw nothing that shows that. They seem to have some time manipulation abilities. But to call them a bigger threat than a galaxy spanning super parasite that caused the Forerunners, itself a galaxy spanning mega high tech long lived race, to mass suicide? And we just never heard of them before, not in the ancient times books, not in any media? This part here is starting to feel like another villian of the week going on and they just needed something new for us to shoot at going forward into the next 10 years.

And how is that thing going say something like the Forerunners lies are at an end, and NOT be the Precursors, the actual ancient alien threat that there's existing lore to draw from? And then if they do Precursors eventually, something else being the reckoning of the Forerunners would feel like a repeat. But here's my Unless...

Speculation/theory time: What if the reason the Forerunners found the Endless a worse threat than the Flood was that their time manipulation could bring back the Precursors? That they could turn dust back into the Primordial? That's one of the only ways I could see them actually living up to being a greater threat than a galactic parasite that effectively did win, apart from the galaxy mass suiciding (or rather the Forerunners forcing that on the galaxy) itself into them going away.

Now THAT story direction I'd be incredibly interested to see. My worry though is that 343 will not draw from the existing lore and this is just another villian of the week type thing, another new ancient alien threat we never heard of rather than drawing from the ancient alien threat we did hear of. But if everything is coming up Precursor, that's a highly interesting direction.
 
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Witchilich

Member
I believe the The Endless are some form of mechanical life forms like the Prometheans, since they can't be killed by the Halo array. The Xanalyn probably created them. They maybe a threat if they can convert others to be like them. Just so you know Halo only kills the food of the flood, that is everything with a central nervous system that can infected by flood(and ofcourse all flood forms except for the spores).
 

LordOfChaos

Member
I believe the The Endless are some form of mechanical life forms like the Prometheans, since they can't be killed by the Halo array. The Xanalyn probably created them. They maybe a threat if they can convert others to be like them. Just so you know Halo only kills the food of the flood, that is everything with a central nervous system that can infected by flood(and ofcourse all flood forms except for the spores).

I think it's confirmed the Endless and Xalanyn (for some reason I keep wanting to put an N where the first L is, I know) are the same. They seem to be a biological species that started to be able to control the time stream, and for that or other reasons they were immune to the Halo ring firing.


It's kind of confusing at first but I guess it's like every species in Halo, the Unngoy are called that but we just call them the Grunts because it's easier.
 
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Witchilich

Member
I think it's confirmed the Endless and Xalanyn (for some reason I keep wanting to put an N where the first L is, I know) are the same. They seem to be a biological species that started to be able to control the time stream, and for that or other reasons they were immune to the Halo ring firing.

It was never confirmed if the Xanalyn or Endless are same.
It's kind of confusing at first but I guess it's like every species in Halo, the Unngoy are called that but we just call them the Grunts because it's easier.
Yeah, but The Harbinger also calls them Endless.
My time is ended. Yours too. They will make sure.
The Endless will return.
 
So I finished the game the other day

the story was average af and the writing was whatever, didn’t really feel attached to the pilot or the weapon, but the master chief is still great. Cortana stuff was super boring and meaningless, and I don’t feel like enough happened or was explained with the harbinger

but the implications it has set up for future expansions and stories is huge, and the correct decision. Excited to learn more about this stuff
 

LordOfChaos

Member
Just a random thought but I'm also now thinking about how the mission where we find out a bit about the Xalanyn was called the Sequence, and they're a race with some mastery of the time stream. Even the rings representing them sorta.

Kinda thinking someone was inspired by Xeelee Sequence for a new race of baddies.



On the Precursor theorizing, the Precursors could also change form, only some became the flood powder, so I wonder if these are either a descendant of them, or else another species created by them to take up the Mantle, where the Forerunners lie was that humanity was supposed to which they burried a maybe innocent species to keep up. The Precursors said that latter before, but as the game kept bringing up, plans change.
 
To call something a bigger threat than the Flood is a BIG ASS CLAIM to make.
It is when canonically the Flood are basically deformed/devolved Precursors, which were transdimensional beings that might predate the known universe.

Even the Flood, when it becomes a Keymind, is basically like a Precursor and godlike.

I'm hoping it's a bullshit claim or The Endless is just another name or form of Precursor.
 

LordOfChaos

Member
So I finished the game the other day

the story was average af and the writing was whatever, didn’t really feel attached to the pilot or the weapon, but the master chief is still great. Cortana stuff was super boring and meaningless, and I don’t feel like enough happened or was explained with the harbinger

but the implications it has set up for future expansions and stories is huge, and the correct decision. Excited to learn more about this stuff

Yeah, I'm more excited for what it sets up to come than what came, so here it's really really really important that 343 doesn't continue the streak of just letting hanging plot threads wither and be forgotten and carries on the momentum of Infinite. I'm hopeful, because it's different, and there already seems to be a DLC about the endless planned apparently. And that legendary ending final sentence...Offensive Bias. Hope we get to see a Forerunner Metarch directly in-game in the DLC to come. And not just become a dopey mech boss fight like the monitor in this one.

It is when canonically the Flood are basically deformed/devolved Precursors, which were transdimensional beings that might predate the known universe.

Even the Flood, when it becomes a Keymind, is basically like a Precursor and godlike.

I'm hoping it's a bullshit claim or The Endless is just another name or form of Precursor.

Yeah, either being Precursor descendants of a different line than the Flood because they can choose their form, or being a species created by the Precursors to carry out their will and maybe bring back the Precursors, would be the only way to justify that worse than the Flood line.

Otherwise it's really hard to see. I mean the Flood basically won. They were only defeated by effectively killing almost everything sentient in the galaxy. Except this "new" species apparently.

Maybe that's the threatening part. If the Flood got a hold of the Endless, they now have forms that can not only manipulate time in some as of yet unknown ways, but are immune to the Halo array...
 
Yeah, I'm more excited for what it sets up to come than what came, so here it's really really really important that 343 doesn't continue the streak of just letting hanging plot threads wither and be forgotten and carries on the momentum of Infinite. I'm hopeful, because it's different, and there already seems to be a DLC about the endless planned apparently. And that legendary ending final sentence...Offensive Bias. Hope we get to see a Forerunner Metarch directly in-game in the DLC to come. And not just become a dopey mech boss fight like the monitor in this one.



Yeah, either being Precursor descendants of a different line than the Flood because they can choose their form, or being a species created by the Precursors to carry out their will and maybe bring back the Precursors, would be the only way to justify that worse than the Flood line.

Otherwise it's really hard to see. I mean the Flood basically won. They were only defeated by effectively killing almost everything sentient in the galaxy. Except this "new" species apparently.

Maybe that's the threatening part. If the Flood got a hold of the Endless, they now have forms that can not only manipulate time in some as of yet unknown ways, but are immune to the Halo array...
Yep, can’t wait to learn more about the endless and offensive bias tie in to it. Also I’m far more interested in Atriox as a villain, seems very intelligent and a better villain for the master chief than escharum is
 

LordOfChaos

Member
Yep, can’t wait to learn more about the endless and offensive bias tie in to it. Also I’m far more interested in Atriox as a villain, seems very intelligent and a better villain for the master chief than escharum is

Escharum basically existed as a fill-in while Atriox was accomplishing the real task. Another thing where the future of Infinite is more interesting than what's already come.

Also good practice for Chief before Atriox since he got rekt last time
 
Escharum basically existed as a fill-in while Atriox was accomplishing the real task. Another thing where the future of Infinite is more interesting than what's already come.

Also good practice for Chief before Atriox since he got rekt last time
Yep, also the fact that atriox represents a different type of threat. He’s strategic, intelligent, cunning. It isn’t just about pure strength but something different
 
Agreed in terms of gameplay OP - best since Halo 2. Certainly feels fresh and you're free to tackle things how you want, classic Halo sandbox modernised. I cannot heap on enough praise for the game being so fun. A little less so in the story elements down the corridors but the pacing of mix'n'match as you go is well balanced, if you're not OCD about either one for A-Z 100%.

So true OP about Cortana being dealt with, basically an out of game lore handwave of the Banished catching her off guard and taking her out. Weird how so many worlds/AIs joining her to our knowledge previously but she's just taken out in one attack basically. Pretty piss poor story wipe, again. So the Janus Key is gone, Requiem into the flames, Infinity and SIVs gone, Halsey MIA, Blue Team MIA, Osiris MIA, Arbiter MIA, blah blah blah. I get they wanted to go back to just the Chief and unknown but it's a very broad stroke with very little payoff in terms of "investing" in Halo 5 as well. Further instead of investing in mystery we get no big reveal like CE's Flood ambush and late CE missions.

Taking back another ring is cool and all but it's been there and done that territory due to the execution being very "same" and Banished focused. They have the cool elements of, forget the wording, Cytacs or whatever those ring specimen containers are called and just don't bring them to fruition in game/story. The setup for a Flood style reveal and then right into gameplay of battle ready warriors/classes materialising into combat was right there for the execution. So much variety and interplay of species/designs but just window dressing without real functionality. Same goes for being on another ring, they're supposed to each be quite different and there's no delivery on environmental variances or species based on their biological requirements. What of areas Chief cannot go for long periods of time, differing weather, exotic species that allow you friendly passage or halt your progress as an enemy etc. Just nothing that really delves into what Halo fan's imaginations have dreamt up all these years about being on a ring. FFS even their environments are North American based, just like multiplayer services/filters.

The story needed to push past the Banished and Cortana in the first act, not the last act. So the mystery, stepping through the story twist door and entering into the new gameplay/lore had its time in the spotlight to immerse yourself/Chief in. Not find a trail of breadcrumbs at the last minute of the campaign.

One can only hope the next 12 months has more campaign content coming soon, in terms of gameplay and story. This shouldn't be another 3-5 years before the next campaign parts drop. The player numbers of 50/50 holding true between multi vs campaign and we should be seeing this engine and tech as well as studio delivering on all cylinders to commit to producing campaign content regularly over the next 10 years. Provide more story, more environments and do it in engine, dedicate the resources and planning up front. I fear this isn't the case at all and it's the same old production pipeline slowly churning campaign content as full game releases with may be one or two DLC type dumps over multiple years. Fingers crossed it's not all esports or BTB only focus for sustain.

The real trouble with 343's story telling is they don't have a continuous story and fortitude to keep moving forward with what they have established. The original trilogy expanded well after CE's success. It didn't jump around wiping out the lore galaxy by firing a ring every game release. Variety early on with Infinite would have also given rise to feedback and opportunity for what is well received and where future story/resources/gameplay should be focused. Instead you end up with the usual "one egg, one basket" issue where 343 force themselves into playing the one hand they have.

I enjoyed elements in game such as the child holograms or The Weapon finding out she's just a copy of Cortana but they really could have just had it as a Cortana trap all along, had Cortana delete The Weapon right as you're about to finish your final goal and then face her for the last time as Cortana reveals it was simply a plot to have you, the Chief, take out the Banished as Cortana and her crew were unable to. Personally I'd rather a fast moving campaign where Banished = Act 1, Cortana double agent = Act 2 and Act 3 is where things take a new turn and where the Harbinger and Endless came into gameplay/story triggered by Cortana being active in the ring again or unlocking something they could use (similar to what we actually got with the ending/legendary scene).

It's such a long wait for 6 years you feel little progress in terms of the story. I'd far prefer they have more to dish out campaign wise than what we got. The gameplay ticks every box and should be commended. The framework and engine to expand and deliver more campaign, more multiplayer and potentially more coop/PvE is what we're yet to see or hear about really. Honestly this game still came in way too fucking hot and it shows. They pulled a Halo 2 out of the bag with the gameplay delivering A+ grade in spades, the story was C-grade for me but the characters were B-grade (pilot got a bit annoying, too many button pushes still and The Weapon was great). There was also far less military style presence and more sort of personal reality show drama, I wish games would go back to just kicking ass, we don't need to feel something about everything. At least the "fun" aspect of grunts, dialogue, exploration and gameplay are all there. Halo got fun again.
 
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Yeah, either being Precursor descendants of a different line than the Flood because they can choose their form, or being a species created by the Precursors to carry out their will and maybe bring back the Precursors, would be the only way to justify that worse than the Flood line.

Otherwise it's really hard to see. I mean the Flood basically won. They were only defeated by effectively killing almost everything sentient in the galaxy. Except this "new" species apparently.

Maybe that's the threatening part. If the Flood got a hold of the Endless, they now have forms that can not only manipulate time in some as of
Keep in mind too the Precursors saw the universe as being alive and called it "Living Time" as well.

Living Time....
 
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Witchilich

Member
On the Precursor theorizing, the Precursors could also change form, only some became the flood powder, so I wonder if these are either a descendant of them, or else another species created by them to take up the Mantle, where the Forerunners lie was that humanity was supposed to which they burried a maybe innocent species to keep up. The Precursors said that latter before, but as the game kept bringing up, plans change.
I'm hoping it's a bullshit claim or The Endless is just another name or form of Precursor.
They can't be the Precursor, they are basically equivalent of god in the Halo universe - an embodiment of the Living Universe itself. The Halo array destroys everything with neural structures and it destroyed most Precursor structures like the Unbending Filaments and severely damaged the Domain. The Precursors are vulnerable to the Halo array, the Endless are not. It should be noted that everything we know about the Precursors come from Forerunners recounting events from millions of years ago or the Primordial himself. Its possible that the Forerunners have a massive misunderstanding of the Precursors. Precursors do not have a form like other species and can take any form they want. There are two Precursors we know of
  • The Flood. They wanted all living being to suffer. The Primordial even after being destroyed, seemed to have turned into the Gravemind or were they always the same? If his consciousness is supposed to have survived as long as the Flood then that means the Gravemind in OG trilogy is also the Primordial.
  • In Halo Point of Light, the Librarian made a ship called Eden containing the remains of Precursors found on Path Kethona to be sent to another galaxy to reseed the Precursors. They took a plant like form. They are the good Precursors that wanted living beings to enjoy the joys.
Have you found what you came here for?” the Didact asked the Primordial.

For a moment, I doubted it had the means to answer in any language we could understand, but the sounds from the symmetrical, vibrating mouthparts slowly began to produce words — something like speech. At least, I heard speech.

“No. Life demands,” the Primordial said. “It clings and is selfish.”

“Why did you come here at all?” the Didact asked.

“Not by choice.”

“Were you brought here — or did you command the Master Builder to bring you?”

The Beast now chose not to answer. Except for its mouthparts, it barely moved.

The Didact persisted as we drew closer to the mesh cage, despite his obvious revulsion. “Are you again hoping to take vengeance upon Forerunners for defying your race and surviving? Is that why you bring this plague down upon us all?”

“No vengeance,” the Primordial said. “No plague. Only unity.”

“Sickness, slavery, lingering death!” the Didact said. “We will analyze everything here, and we will learn. The Flood will be defeated.”

“Work, fight, live. All the sweeter. Mind after mind will shape and absorb. In the end, all will be quiet with wisdom.”

The Didact gave a small quiver, whether of rage or fear I could not tell.

“You told me you were the last Precursor.”

The Primordial rearranged its limbs with a leathery shuffle. Powder sifted from torso and legs.

“How can you be the last of anything?” the Didact asked. “I see now that you are nothing more than a mash-up of old victims infected by the Flood. A Gravemind. Were all the Precursors Graveminds?”

Another sifting shuffle.

“Or are you after all only an imitation of a Precursor, a puppet — a reanimated corpse? Are all the Precursors gone—or is it that the Flood will make new Precursors?”

“Those who created you were defied and hunted,” the Captive said. “Most were extinguished. A few fled beyond your reach. Creation continued.”

“Defied! You were monsters set upon destroying all who would assume the Mantle.”

“It was long ago decided. Forerunners will never bear the Mantle.”

“Decided how?”

“Through long study. The decision is final. Humans will replace you. Humans will be tested next.”

Was the Primordial giving me a message of hope? Doom for our enemies . . . ascendency and triumph for humanity?

“Is that to be our punishment?” the Didact asked, his tone subdued — dangerous.

“It is the way of those who seek out the truth of the Mantle. Humans will rise again in arrogance and defiance. The Flood will return when they are ripe — and bring them unity.”

“But most humans are immune,” the Didact said. Then he seemed to understand, and lowered his great head between his shoulders like a bull about to charge. “Can the Flood choose to infect, or not to infect?”

The wide, flat head canted to one side, as if savoring some demonic irony.

“No immunity. Judgment. Timing.”

“Then why turn Mendicant Bias against its creators, and encourage the Master Builder to torture humans? Why allow this cruelty? Are you the fount of all misery?” the Didact cried out.

The Captive’s strange, ticking voice continued. “Misery is sweetness,” it said, as if confiding a secret. “Forerunners will fail as you have failed before. Humans will rise. Whether they will also fail has not been decided.”

“How can you control any of this? You’re stuck here — the last of your kind!”

“The last of this kind.”

The head leaned forward, crimping the torso and front limbs until one leg actually separated and fell away, shooting out a cloud of fine dust. The Captive was decaying from within. What sort of cage was this? The misty blue light seemed to vibrate and a high, singing sound reverberated through the hemisphere, shaping razor-sharp nodes of dissonance.

But the Captive still managed to speak.

“We are the Flood. There is no difference. Until all space and time are rolled up and life is crushed in the folds . . . no end to war, grief, or pain. In a hundred and one thousand centuries . . . unity again, and wisdom. Until then — sweetness.”

The Didact stepped forward with a sharp grunt. He lifted his hand and a panel appeared in the air, shaping controls. The Captive’s head squared on its torso, as if bracing for what it knew was about to come.

“It is your task to kill this servant,” it said, “that another may be freed.”
Possibly the good plant like Precursor represents life and the gravemnd/Primordial represents death. Part of the cycle, that the precusors believe everyone including themselves have to experience. As if they are the same thing, seeding life, raising it and then absorbing them when they are ripe. A way for the universe to experience everything which is then stored in the Domain. Maybe thats why ancient human researchers were horrified when they received the answer of the true nature of Flood from the Primordial from the Precursors and decided to end their lives.
 
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STARSBarry

Gold Member
Honestly everytime fans come up with a theroy that relies on giving 343 benefit of the doubt in terms of writing it turns our its just the fans interpreting it better than the actual writers ever intended.

343 just has consistantly bad writers (the exception being Halo Wars 2 which they contracted out) and generally tought that if they repeated "greater threat than the flood" enough times then magically the user base would get excited about a bunch of flying monkeys from the wizard of Oz being the new big bads.
 
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Alex11

Member
I can't even be bothered to try and understand it now. I easily followed 1-3, reach, and ODST, then suddenly I'm lost when 343i took over with all the Promethean shit.
Right there with you,at this point I expect by the next game the story to take yet another course,with yet another race that predates them all.
 
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Shut0wen

Member
Agreed halo infinte is ine of the best halo games since reach, but i cant agree anymore then 343 ruining the halo story, its weird 343 try incredibly hard to go deep into the lore of halo, it works great in the books but 343 just cant seem to make it work in the games and to be honest who wants it in the games? Bungie did the right thing by making the storys in the games incredibly simple, your just a super soldier whose mission is to stop the covenant from using the halo rings, instead with infinte we have the whole 343 explaining johns back story again, theres alot of mystery over cortana again (havnt finished the campaign) again for me it just doesnt work at all, should of just kept it simple but at this point in time they really need to let go of cortana, probably best they did this at the end of halo 4 but 343 just trys to make halo alot deeper then what the series actually is, hopefully 343 ditch frank o connor and keep jason instead, loved halo and the books but the series story has just declined after every game since 4, havnt read any of the books since cole but from what ive heard most of books since then have been shit from what ive heard
 

LordOfChaos

Member
They can't be the Precursor, they are basically equivalent of god in the Halo universe - an embodiment of the Living Universe itself. The Halo array destroys everything with neural structures and it destroyed most Precursor structures like the Unbending Filaments and severely damaged the Domain. The Precursors are vulnerable to the Halo array, the Endless are not.

Precursors can change into whatever form they want and are pretty well smurfing all the time. I've long thought the only way the Forerunners beat them in the original Forerunner-Precursor war was that the Precursors didn't really care, everything is just experience to them as it is to the Flood. Losing is an experience, dying is an experience, they are a species beyond material forms, and a few of them could have chosen to take the form of a Halo resistant species.

Like you said about Point of Light, conspicuously released near Infinite, some remaining Precursors (!) become plant like structures. The Flood were just one such form some Precursors chose to take by powdering themselves.

Anyways, just wearing my Spinfoil hat here and thinking out loud. Because so far, I can't see that worse than the Flood repeated thought being remotely justified from the species we did see, unless they are or can bring back the Precursors through time manipulation.
 
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LordOfChaos

Member
Honestly everytime fans come up with a theroy that relies on giving 343 benefit of the doubt in terms of writing it turns our its just the fans interpreting it better than the actual writers ever intended.

343 just has consistantly bad writers (the exception being Halo Wars 2 which they contracted out) and generally tought that if they repeated "greater threat than the flood" enough times then magically the user base would get excited about a bunch of flying monkeys from the wizard of Oz being the new big bads.

I see this completely and it's kind of what I'm fearing, that it just is what it is on the surface and no more, the Endless are another brand new ancient alien threat pulled out of nowhere to give us something to shoot for the next 10 years, and the worse threat than the Flood line will never be justified.
 

EverydayBeast

thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
343 is doing what they’re doing making efficient successful campaigns the expectations keep growing if it’s so good than why didn’t halo infinite win game of the year?
 

Umbasaborne

Banned
Im a fan of the story in halo games. It really feels as if they skipped a game though. Honestly the fact that they gloss over the gigantic galaxy changing revelation in halo 5, that cortana is leading an army of fore runner death robots to enslave the galaxy in an ai uprising, felt to me like a slap in the face. How can you make such a huge cliff hanger and do as little with it as you possibly could? It came off as lazy at best and creatively bankrupt at worst. Like “oh we dont know how to turn this concept into a game so lets sweep it under the rug and leave a few audio logs around for those who were stupid enough to care about our story”. I have a ton of issues with this game, and its total disregard for its own lore is chief among them. WHICH FUCKING SUCKS because i LOVE the story in halo 4. 5’s had major issues but it put the universe in an interesting place that they completely disregarded in infinite. Why the fuck did they write all these huge checks regarding the story just to fucking toss it away. Thats why for all the good shit infinite does. I will never love it like i love other halo games.
 

Umbasaborne

Banned
Agreed in terms of gameplay OP - best since Halo 2. Certainly feels fresh and you're free to tackle things how you want, classic Halo sandbox modernised. I cannot heap on enough praise for the game being so fun. A little less so in the story elements down the corridors but the pacing of mix'n'match as you go is well balanced, if you're not OCD about either one for A-Z 100%.

So true OP about Cortana being dealt with, basically an out of game lore handwave of the Banished catching her off guard and taking her out. Weird how so many worlds/AIs joining her to our knowledge previously but she's just taken out in one attack basically. Pretty piss poor story wipe, again. So the Janus Key is gone, Requiem into the flames, Infinity and SIVs gone, Halsey MIA, Blue Team MIA, Osiris MIA, Arbiter MIA, blah blah blah. I get they wanted to go back to just the Chief and unknown but it's a very broad stroke with very little payoff in terms of "investing" in Halo 5 as well. Further instead of investing in mystery we get no big reveal like CE's Flood ambush and late CE missions.

Taking back another ring is cool and all but it's been there and done that territory due to the execution being very "same" and Banished focused. They have the cool elements of, forget the wording, Cytacs or whatever those ring specimen containers are called and just don't bring them to fruition in game/story. The setup for a Flood style reveal and then right into gameplay of battle ready warriors/classes materialising into combat was right there for the execution. So much variety and interplay of species/designs but just window dressing without real functionality. Same goes for being on another ring, they're supposed to each be quite different and there's no delivery on environmental variances or species based on their biological requirements. What of areas Chief cannot go for long periods of time, differing weather, exotic species that allow you friendly passage or halt your progress as an enemy etc. Just nothing that really delves into what Halo fan's imaginations have dreamt up all these years about being on a ring. FFS even their environments are North American based, just like multiplayer services/filters.

The story needed to push past the Banished and Cortana in the first act, not the last act. So the mystery, stepping through the story twist door and entering into the new gameplay/lore had its time in the spotlight to immerse yourself/Chief in. Not find a trail of breadcrumbs at the last minute of the campaign.

One can only hope the next 12 months has more campaign content coming soon, in terms of gameplay and story. This shouldn't be another 3-5 years before the next campaign parts drop. The player numbers of 50/50 holding true between multi vs campaign and we should be seeing this engine and tech as well as studio delivering on all cylinders to commit to producing campaign content regularly over the next 10 years. Provide more story, more environments and do it in engine, dedicate the resources and planning up front. I fear this isn't the case at all and it's the same old production pipeline slowly churning campaign content as full game releases with may be one or two DLC type dumps over multiple years. Fingers crossed it's not all esports or BTB only focus for sustain.

The real trouble with 343's story telling is they don't have a continuous story and fortitude to keep moving forward with what they have established. The original trilogy expanded well after CE's success. It didn't jump around wiping out the lore galaxy by firing a ring every game release. Variety early on with Infinite would have also given rise to feedback and opportunity for what is well received and where future story/resources/gameplay should be focused. Instead you end up with the usual "one egg, one basket" issue where 343 force themselves into playing the one hand they have.

I enjoyed elements in game such as the child holograms or The Weapon finding out she's just a copy of Cortana but they really could have just had it as a Cortana trap all along, had Cortana delete The Weapon right as you're about to finish your final goal and then face her for the last time as Cortana reveals it was simply a plot to have you, the Chief, take out the Banished as Cortana and her crew were unable to. Personally I'd rather a fast moving campaign where Banished = Act 1, Cortana double agent = Act 2 and Act 3 is where things take a new turn and where the Harbinger and Endless came into gameplay/story triggered by Cortana being active in the ring again or unlocking something they could use (similar to what we actually got with the ending/legendary scene).

It's such a long wait for 6 years you feel little progress in terms of the story. I'd far prefer they have more to dish out campaign wise than what we got. The gameplay ticks every box and should be commended. The framework and engine to expand and deliver more campaign, more multiplayer and potentially more coop/PvE is what we're yet to see or hear about really. Honestly this game still came in way too fucking hot and it shows. They pulled a Halo 2 out of the bag with the gameplay delivering A+ grade in spades, the story was C-grade for me but the characters were B-grade (pilot got a bit annoying, too many button pushes still and The Weapon was great). There was also far less military style presence and more sort of personal reality show drama, I wish games would go back to just kicking ass, we don't need to feel something about everything. At least the "fun" aspect of grunts, dialogue, exploration and gameplay are all there. Halo got fun again.
Thats my biggest problem, and one im not giving them a pass for. They wrote a bunch of checks they could not cash then tried to sweep them under the rug. I feel like an idiot for getting invested in the plot at all.
 

LordOfChaos

Member
Thats my biggest problem, and one im not giving them a pass for. They wrote a bunch of checks they could not cash then tried to sweep them under the rug. I feel like an idiot for getting invested in the plot at all.

I feel that, the longer I have to stew on the campaign the more I think of these things that are just like, did they just delete the whole narrative thread not to deal with it.

The other thing I'm wondering about is, where are any alliances against the Banished? If humanity is on the brink again and the Banished have a gun to the galaxy's head, are Arbiter and Co also not incentivized to stop it? For all its faults H5 ending with Arby, Chief, and Halsey together in a camp while the galaxy was under occupation was an interesting starting point but they just kinda dropped all that. And the only mention of Locke is his helmet being Brute armor and so far presumed dead by the Propaganda Grunt?

Again though the expansions on Infinite are where they have potential to redeem a lot. Maybe seeing what happened to other Spartans, Arbiter forces coming to help, etc.
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
I just cant seem to keep up since Halo 4. It feels like the lore has split so many times in different directions that Its impossible to know whats going on. Its lore for the sake of lore in my head. Theres no real pay off or reason to understand it all.
 

LNXD

Neo Member
I also hated that they eliminated the Didact off screen. I always wanted a battle against it, but there is a chance he appears because his essence was stored digitally before disintegrating.
 

Draugoth

Gold Member
Speculation/theory time: What if the reason the Forerunners found the Endless a worse threat than the Flood was that their time manipulation could bring back the Precursors? That they could turn dust back into the Primordial? That's one of the only ways I could see them actually living up to being a greater threat than a galactic parasite that effectively did win, apart from the galaxy mass suiciding (or rather the Forerunners forcing that on the galaxy) itself into them going away.

The endless are very likely a type of precursor.
 

LordOfChaos

Member
I just cant seem to keep up since Halo 4. It feels like the lore has split so many times in different directions that Its impossible to know whats going on. Its lore for the sake of lore in my head. Theres no real pay off or reason to understand it all.

This is for sure the biggest issue with it, they ended up with a Star Wars sequel trilogy where every entry contracted or just forgot the plot lines from the last, and now everything that seemed to be building towards something it turns out didn't matter, where is the Janus Key and all that, even with the problems with bringing something so big up in post game content. And not a single game with the galaxy under occupation after that 5 year cliffhanger just seems whack.

Taken as its own game, Infinite was a fun time, but it does repeat all their storytelling issues.
 

LordOfChaos

Member
If 343 remembers this bit of lore, I wonder if they'll write it in as the Endless. The Forerunners assumed the Halo array would wipe them out, but their species is somehow immune to it, so they just got that head start on the galaxy

There is one last patch of communication, somewhere below, within a great dense cloud—perhaps a star nursery. A new and precocious civilization acquiring its voice only now, having eluded both the Forerunners and the Flood … sending its first plaintive, hopeful signals.


Crying out for attention. Heed us!


I do not understand what they are trying to say. Do not know what they might have looked like, cannot imagine what they might have done, had they been born in more fortuitous times.


-Silentium
 

Bernkastel

Ask me about my fanboy energy!
What if The Endless were the "Meddlers"? If they were uncatalogued by the Forerunners, they could be outside the Milky Way.
 
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LordOfChaos

Member
What if The Endless were the "Meddlers"? If they were uncatalogued by the Forerunners, they could be outside the Milky Way.


What we know so far is the Forerunners fired the Halo array, expected everything in the galaxy with significant neural mass (flood food) to die, came back, and found the Endless alive and maybe well.

So it sounds like they were inside the Milky Way.

If you think about it though other species on their planet would have died, and 100 years after the firing of the Halo array they would have been in ecological collapse, maybe that's why they thought the Forerunners had come to help them, and were so rightly pissed off about being frozen with a sham trial after that. Maybe also what they were working on with the time manipulation hinted, undo all the damage, but the Forerunners find time sacred.


Still unclear if these are actually worse than the Flood, a VERY high bar, or Forerunners are dicks, and I tend towards Forerunners are dicks
 

Bernkastel

Ask me about my fanboy energy!
What we know so far is the Forerunners fired the Halo array, expected everything in the galaxy with significant neural mass (flood food) to die, came back, and found the Endless alive and maybe well.

So it sounds like they were inside the Milky Way.

If you think about it though other species on their planet would have died, and 100 years after the firing of the Halo array they would have been in ecological collapse, maybe that's why they thought the Forerunners had come to help them, and were so rightly pissed off about being frozen with a sham trial after that. Maybe also what they were working on with the time manipulation hinted, undo all the damage, but the Forerunners find time sacred.


Still unclear if these are actually worse than the Flood, a VERY high bar, or Forerunners are dicks, and I tend towards Forerunners are dicks
Its possible that they came to the Milky Way after the Halo array was fired, possibly to check what the heck happened. So they may have gone to check the Halo installations. After 100 years the Forerunners caught them. We also know that the Endless only had one planet and didn't have any colonies. The Meddlers and Endless have a lot in common being an active space faring race immediately after the Halo array was fired.
 
I don't know how to do it, but we need the flood back!

That's easy since they never left. The great thing Bungie did with the Flood was set it up to be an ever-recurring villain. The Forerunners made a weapon that killed the flood, but on that very weapon they kept samples of the Flood for study. They literally thought themselves capable of containing it despite being the cause of it in the first place. The Forerunners were a special kind of arrogant stupid.

Even in Infinite if you search you can find one of those blocks that hold the various species (like the one the Harbinger was released from) on the ring that has an image of a flood spore on it. Open that block and that single spore could potentially take out the entire galaxy. Forerunner instalations tend to have shit like the flood on them as they kept samples for testing. The shield world in Halo Wars called Etran Harborage was overrun with the flood, Installation 04 from the original game had contained samples, Installation 05 from Halo 2 held a Gravemind. Even if none of the other rings hold Flood, there are 673 known shield worlds and Forerunner Thresholds (Flood Containment Facilities) are scattered around the known galaxy. The Ark from Halo 3 is also still infested with flood as seen in Halo Wars 2. Although Atriox's crew suppressed the flood it's still active inside the containment field.

The Shield world Requiem from Halo 4 was not a conservatory or research facility, just a prison for the Didact so it had no flood samples. In Halo 5 there's not even a Halo, just you dealing with the Forerunner Guardians and the ever-annoying Warden Eternal and his digimon army which would also not have anything to do with flood research.

 

Sony

Nintendo
So I'm pretty much using this as an open spoiler thread. Overall I like the campaign and story, but I really dislike what they did to Cortana. She's just as Iconic as Master Chief imo and they basically got rid of her off screen. I basically grew up with this purple AI and she's tossed aside for an AI that looks like her but isn't her. I would have preferred if the Weapon+Cortana would have fused or something, so that it would be part Weapon, part Cortana. So at least you have an AI that has her memories.
 

V4skunk

Banned
First of all, that was the best Halo has been in many years, nearly a decade. It brings in a new energy and excitement to Halo that I really appreciate as someone who always had a soft spot for it, after Guardians was leaving me on the edge of continuing to care. I am quite excited that Halo feels fresh and new again, and I'm far more interested in where it goes now than I was after Guardians. So I just wanted to get that out of the way first.

It does, however, repeat some of 343's biggest storytelling flaws. Here we have the third game in what was first slated to be a contained trilogy but that idea itself was canned, where the main baddy of the last game is swiftly abandoned and a new one comes up for what's next. All throughout the promotional material, I was left wondering, is something more going on with Cortana? Is she still alive somewhere and biding her time? After dispatching the Didact off-screen in a comic after Halo 4, surely they wouldn't do that again...But they did, and while there was a little more going on with Cortana, it did feel like a rug sweep again to get the old story bits they didn't want to deal with done with again largely off-screen apart from some convenient exposition through floating memories.

Halo-Infinite-Boss-Harbinger.jpg


And about that next thing. Here's the big thing with me. To call something a bigger threat than the Flood is a BIG ASS CLAIM to make. And so far, we saw nothing that shows that. They seem to have some time manipulation abilities. But to call them a bigger threat than a galaxy spanning super parasite that caused the Forerunners, itself a galaxy spanning mega high tech long lived race, to mass suicide? And we just never heard of them before, not in the ancient times books, not in any media? This part here is starting to feel like another villian of the week going on and they just needed something new for us to shoot at going forward into the next 10 years.

And how is that thing going say something like the Forerunners lies are at an end, and NOT be the Precursors, the actual ancient alien threat that there's existing lore to draw from? And then if they do Precursors eventually, something else being the reckoning of the Forerunners would feel like a repeat. But here's my Unless...

Speculation/theory time: What if the reason the Forerunners found the Endless a worse threat than the Flood was that their time manipulation could bring back the Precursors? That they could turn dust back into the Primordial? That's one of the only ways I could see them actually living up to being a greater threat than a galactic parasite that effectively did win, apart from the galaxy mass suiciding (or rather the Forerunners forcing that on the galaxy) itself into them going away.

Now THAT story direction I'd be incredibly interested to see. My worry though is that 343 will not draw from the existing lore and this is just another villian of the week type thing, another new ancient alien threat we never heard of rather than drawing from the ancient alien threat we did hear of. But if everything is coming up Precursor, that's a highly interesting direction.
The endless are most likely precursors.
 

aries_71

Junior Member
Wait... it looks like some are saying that the Weapon is naming herself Cortana at the end of the game. That was not my take; it looks like she said something like "I have the perfect name", referring to the Weapon name. Am I wrong?
 

//DEVIL//

Member
All Ill say is what they did to Cortana is wrong. and quite honestly is stupid.

From being all that on Halo 5 along with the Guardians to ... dead ? lol fuck off. Cortana was a pillar in Halo games. you cant just write it off like that.
 
My issue is there isn't much of a story to this game to begin with, it's better than the last 2 Halo games but that's not saying much. This can't be the story they started off wanting to tell, this was clearly cut back a lot just to get a game out the door. When I got to that last area where it's basically just a horde mode I almost quit, it just seemed like a big shortcut, little did I know the story was almost done by that point.
 

LordOfChaos

Member
Wait... it looks like some are saying that the Weapon is naming herself Cortana at the end of the game. That was not my take; it looks like she said something like "I have the perfect name", referring to the Weapon name. Am I wrong?

I think asking if it was ok and Chief nodding was implied that she was going to take Cortana's name, which is a barf addition to someone who killed hundreds of thousands with the EMPs that surely knocked ships out of the air, crashing into cities, medical centers without power, and that's BEFORE she just blew up Doisac.

They'd win major bonus points for me if instead if they go with a DEEP lore cut, and she goes with completing the sword trinity, tied to Cortana but separate, and goes with Joyeuse. Joy for short. It's perfect for her as more innocent and exuberant.
 
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aries_71

Junior Member
I think asking if it was ok and Chief nodding was implied that she was going to take Cortana's name, which is a barf addition to someone who killed hundreds of thousands with the EMPs that surely knocked ships out of the air, crashing into cities, medical centers without power, and that's BEFORE she just blew up Doisac.

They'd win major bonus points for me if instead if they go with a DEEP lore cut, and she goes with completing the sword trinity, tied to Cortana but separate, and goes with Joyeuse. Joy for short. It's perfect for her as more innocent and exuberant.
Agree with you. Problem is that MS named their digital assistant as Cortana. I guess it’s not OK to bury the name. Very barfable.
 

LordOfChaos

Member
Agree with you. Problem is that MS named their digital assistant as Cortana. I guess it’s not OK to bury the name. Very barfable.

Guess they should have thought of that before character assassinating her with her genociding probably billions by this point coutning Dosaic haha
 
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