TaylorSwiftFan
Member
Where did you get those numbers from?
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Sony has $10 billion left to spend on acquisitions through 2023
- Thread starter Lunatic_Gamer
- Start date
- News
Mibu no ookami
Member
jigglet
Banned
lol Sony are such idiots, why would they show their cards like this.
The next time they go buy a studio all MS has to do is counter-offer $10,000,000,001
EDIT: sigh, I usually don't feel bad when jokes go over people's heads but given the time put into the dissertation below I feel the need to add the following...
/s
The next time they go buy a studio all MS has to do is counter-offer $10,000,000,001
EDIT: sigh, I usually don't feel bad when jokes go over people's heads but given the time put into the dissertation below I feel the need to add the following...
/s
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Mibu no ookami
Member
That isn't quite how that works.
For example if Sony courted Take2. Microsoft likely can't buy Take2. They're in the process of trying to buy the 12th largest video game company (market cap) in the world. Regulators won't let them buy Take2 and Activision at the same time or maybe even after the Activision deal closes. After Activision, they probably won't be able to buy anyone larger than say Ubi Soft.
There is also a lot of internal pressure on Microsoft to deliver on the investment they've already made. They've spent nearly 80 billion dollars on major acquisitions already. That's probably the lionshare in which Microsoft can justify to dump in one sector.
For context, they bought Linkedin for 26 billion and Nuance for 20 billion. The Activision deal is their biggest M&A in the history of the company. I think you'll see them mostly focused on smaller studios from here on.
Sony might not even be able to afford Take2. They'd almost certainly have to finance much of the purchase, but they certainly don't have much competition in that arena. Probably have more competition from Tencent than Microsoft on this. It looks like the Zynga deal was a mix of cash and stock. They paid a 68% premium on Zynga with 2/3rds of it being paid for via stock swaps. So about 4 billion dollars in cash.
Sony's best bets right now are to buy CD Projekt for a major discount and Capcom. You could buy both with 10 billion remaining (assuming that money goes to SIE to keep them market leader in gaming, their biggest sector).
You remake Witcher 1-3 on PS5, you fix Cyberpunk on next-gen consoles, release a sequel, Witcher 4, rebrand GOG as PlayStation Store PC, do a cross royalty deal to making games published on both PlayStation Store on Console and PC slightly cheaper, allowing you to have slightly cheaper game prices than Steam and maybe put SIE games on PlayStation Store PC either exclusively or before Steam and Epic Game Store.
Capcom gives you a number of AAA and AA game titles and talented devs, gives you access to genres that your portfolio doesn't currently have with Resident Evil, Street Fighter, and Monster Hunter. Maybe you reboot/remake Dino Crisis, Devil May Cry, and Onimusha in the same style that Resident Evil was rebooted and remade. And you do a PlayStation All Stars type game but using Power Stone as a framework.
You can make these two purchases if you finance them a little as combined with premium they'll cost you more than 10b, but this would fast forward sony to their goals in the next 10-15 years of being cross-platform on PC.
And I would still have my sights set on Take2 for the future.
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
You do know rich MS also approached Bungie right? Guess who ended up acquiring them.
It's all about the offer and it's not always about the money offered.
hmm,
CD Projekt current market cap is 4.6Bn, right? (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/stockdetails/fi-aqbv7w?ocid=ansMSNMoney11&duration=1D)
Capcom current market cap is 5.2Bn (https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/9697.T-JP?qsearchterm=Capcom Co Ltd)
Don't think it's happening under 10 billion.
Badlucktroll
Member
I think Sony is going to get 2 big(ish) ones then call it a day.
Mibu no ookami
Member
You'd have to finance much of it, but it doesn't have to be all cash it can be some stock as well.
Yeah I know but its still not going to be under 10bn imo. I think CDPR would be a good pick up if Sony wants to commit to be being a multiplatform (PS+PC) pub.
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
CDPR is too messy, they'd get barely any IPs from it and A LOT of cleaning house to do.
I'd rather for them to move on from Europe in terms of acquisitions for now.
Mibu no ookami
Member
It doesn't have to be exactly under 10b.
They'd be a great pickup and they make sense as a partner given GOG, which is struggling at the moment.
Not messy at all. You get rid of the executive team that decided to release the game and without shareholder pressure, you don't have issues releasing a game too early. You give them the resources and support they need you to take them to the next level similar to Insomniac. Very easy to clean this company up and transform it. Very cheap answer to Bethesda.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Activision Blizzard market cap in 2020 was 71B, in 2021 it was 51.81B.
People who think a 5B market company like CDPR is suddenly a 20B purchase aren’t making any sense.
Either way, considering the problem with a SE and Capcom is whether or not the families who own major stock would be interested in selling or not, Sony’s option can always be to pay part of it in stock as it will guarantee these families keep getting their share of the pie generations further.
Obviously with consolidation and the market shrinking the number of players in it, a company like Capcom runs the risk of become a bit player in the near future, specially when their ability to compete diminishes and creating new IP becomes riskier and riskier.
All we need is to look at Hollywood and see what happened there.
People who think a 5B market company like CDPR is suddenly a 20B purchase aren’t making any sense.
Either way, considering the problem with a SE and Capcom is whether or not the families who own major stock would be interested in selling or not, Sony’s option can always be to pay part of it in stock as it will guarantee these families keep getting their share of the pie generations further.
Obviously with consolidation and the market shrinking the number of players in it, a company like Capcom runs the risk of become a bit player in the near future, specially when their ability to compete diminishes and creating new IP becomes riskier and riskier.
All we need is to look at Hollywood and see what happened there.
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Mibu no ookami
Member
CD Projekt gives you a leader in WRPG. Sony has no WRPG.
The Withcer sells just as well as Elder Scrolls and despite the Cyberpunk fiasco, the team itself is probably on the upswing, while the company is overall cheap enough to buy at a discount.
The ability to remake Witcher 1 and 2 on PS5 are huge opportunities, let alone Witcher 4.
Sony and CDPR compliment each other so well.
Sony dominates Microsoft in Europe. CDP is one of the biggest European teams and are extremely reliant on the European market and PlayStation as a result. Like Bungie, CDP gives Sony portfolio diversity as well as what I think is a key platform for Sony's PC strategy in GOG.
The Withcer sells just as well as Elder Scrolls and despite the Cyberpunk fiasco, the team itself is probably on the upswing, while the company is overall cheap enough to buy at a discount.
The ability to remake Witcher 1 and 2 on PS5 are huge opportunities, let alone Witcher 4.
Sony and CDPR compliment each other so well.
Sony dominates Microsoft in Europe. CDP is one of the biggest European teams and are extremely reliant on the European market and PlayStation as a result. Like Bungie, CDP gives Sony portfolio diversity as well as what I think is a key platform for Sony's PC strategy in GOG.
Mibu no ookami
Member
I think the confusion is that if you look up their stock it's listed at 18 billion but it is 18 billion PLN not USD.
I think that is where stock swaps come into play, but that's immaterial, we'll see what happens.
Yoboman
Member
We are well past the point of ROI being the driving factor in these acquisitions. It's about talent growth and IPs
They have some of the most well known Japanese IPs that people buy systems just to play. They've also got some great western IP and studios that could probably benefit with some additional guidance by being under PS Studios
Mibu no ookami
Member
Maybe for Microsoft, but certainly not for Sony.
Talent and IP is about ROI...
Square Enix just doesn't add up at their price tag, you get far better returns elsewhere.
For the price of Square Enix you could nearly buy CDProjekt and Capcom combined. The Witcher alone and the talent in the studio alone is worth more than anything Square Enix currently has.
The future for CD Projekt is huge.
I can see a future Cyberpunk and Witcher MMOs. Both franchises are going to be huge 10 million+ sellers for some time. Square Enix has NOTHING like that.
Yoboman
Member
CD Projekt will get out two games a gen at most, and after Cyberpunk there is no guarantee their next game is a success. They also don't own either IP - they are licensed IPs
Square had 3 billion revenue for FY21, they are on a different level to CD Projekt.
Square Enix sales reach record $3bn
Today, Square Enix announced its earnings for the fiscal year 2021 and reported the highest revenues in company history…
www.gamesindustry.biz
Mibu no ookami
Member
Think about this
Bungie - 3.6 billion
Capcom - 8.6 billion
CD Projekt - 6 billion
Deviation Games
Haven Studios
Firewalk
I think that would be a pretty decent haul for Sony in comparison to a 70 billion dollar buy into what basically amounts to Call of Duty that if done well Sony could compete with, with just Deviation Games.
I'd bet that Sony will try to buy at least one of the three studios they've partnered with assuming the game is a success. They have a pretty decent track record here. I think they would have purchased Quantic Dreams had it not been for issues surrounding David Cage.
The number of successful partnerships I'd say Sony has had with studios that didn't result in Sony buying them are few and far between (excluding japanese studios). These partnerships are generally the courting process.
Bungie - 3.6 billion
Capcom - 8.6 billion
CD Projekt - 6 billion
Deviation Games
Haven Studios
Firewalk
I think that would be a pretty decent haul for Sony in comparison to a 70 billion dollar buy into what basically amounts to Call of Duty that if done well Sony could compete with, with just Deviation Games.
I'd bet that Sony will try to buy at least one of the three studios they've partnered with assuming the game is a success. They have a pretty decent track record here. I think they would have purchased Quantic Dreams had it not been for issues surrounding David Cage.
The number of successful partnerships I'd say Sony has had with studios that didn't result in Sony buying them are few and far between (excluding japanese studios). These partnerships are generally the courting process.
Mibu no ookami
Member
CD Projekt will get out two games a gen at most, and after Cyberpunk there is no guarantee their next game is a success. They also don't own either IP - they are licensed IPs
Square had 3 billion revenue for FY21, they are on a different level to CD Projekt.
Square Enix sales reach record $3bn
Today, Square Enix announced its earnings for the fiscal year 2021 and reported the highest revenues in company history…
With support from Sony, and especially doing remakes, they'd be able to pump out quite a few games. I'd say at least Witcher remake, Witcher 4, Cyberpunk 2/Online for example.
It's about profit not just revenue
CD Projekt RED estimates USD$304million in profits for 2020
CD Projekt RED has shared its estimated sales revenue and profits for 2020, which boasts huge returns for the company despite a rough year
www.nme.com
Yoboman
Member
These are multi billion dollar businesses. They can run on $1 profit if they need to. A successful business is about growth in revenue. That is what underscores their market value and increases it. If Sony are thinking about ROI, they are also thinking about how that company can grow their revenue and increase their stock priceWith support from Sony, and especially doing remakes, they'd be able to pump out quite a few games. I'd say at least Witcher remake, Witcher 4, Cyberpunk 2/Online for example.
It's about profit not just revenue
CD Projekt RED estimates USD$304million in profits for 2020
CD Projekt RED has shared its estimated sales revenue and profits for 2020, which boasts huge returns for the company despite a rough year
Sony have also illustrated that IP value and its potential in multimedia is important to them. While Cyberpunk have two IP, Square have dozens that can be explored on this front and the capability to keep producing more
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
The thing about acquiring Activision is that most studios are stuck with Call of Duty. The Blizzard part is much more exciting.
Clearly they did this for the mobile part of the company as Phil said recently.
As a console gamer...both Square-Enix or Capcom are much more exciting as acquisitions go. Having Tomb Raider, Final Fantasy, Life is Strange, Dragon Quest, Deus Ex, Just Cause, etc or Resident Evil, Devil May Cry, Monster Hunter, Street Fighter...both are much better choices for my tastes than...Call of Duty, Candy Crush, WoW, Overwatch...but then again, my personal tastes i guess.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Major potential for cross media, no doubt. Considering Sony's movie and anime division, it's basically malpractice for them to not be out there doing everything they can to buy SE and Capcom, when their major competitor in the gaming space just got a hold of some of gaming's biggest IPs in two years time and tripled their development human resources. Meanwhile Disney and others aren't going to stand by forever, they will eventually enter the gaming scape for real, and when you got as much IP as Disney? Keep playing that waiting game and see what happens.
if it's megaman legends or battle network that gets revived then RE can die.
Because they love the games from those ips.
I've been thinking that they should have done this years ago. At E3 promote the games, make animes or movies for the games, make comics, make soundtracks, make statues or figurines, and promote all of this at e3 or in their state of plays. Gamers these days already buy tons of microtransactions I'm sure they'd buy a physical item like a nice looking video game mug , key chain, shirt, or shoes if it's presented at one of these events.
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Thirty7ven
Banned
ryzen1
Member
But these games were once new too
I'd rather see a completly new and fresh game then the 10th iteration of %InsertAnyGame%.
Altares13th
Member
Buy Konami already!
mansoor1980
Gold Member
El Pistolero
Banned
It will make sense to you in a few years. Sony believes Bungie has what it takes to print money, and I honestly believe they will...
It's not a matter of those games being old but that they are beloved.But these games were once new too
I'd rather see a completly new and fresh game then the 10th iteration of %InsertAnyGame%.
I like seeing a world and story being completely fleshed out and having multiple games in that ip does that.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
Those numbers aren’t up to date though.
List of best-selling PlayStation 4 video games - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Mibu no ookami
Member
Produce newer numbers then.
Hitchyhero
Banned
I think Sony fans are deluded. I love Japanese games but you guys way overestimate the popularity of these games. They also wouldn't be gaining market share as I'd hazard a guess that 95%+ of japanese games sell on PlayStation already, and 5% on Xbox. That's a lot of money to pay to gain 5% marketshare.
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Mibu no ookami
Member
Who said that buying any japanese companies was about increasing market share in japan? Where do these people come from and why do they struggle reading?
Buying Capcom or Sega (more so capcom) would be about pushing their brand alongside the sony brand globally. Taking their studios to the level of first party AAA studios.
Yakuza and Persona are fairly popular games, but they don't get AAA budgets.
Hitchyhero
Banned
I never mentioned about increasing market share in Japan. The whole point of buying studios is to make more money and/or increasing marketshare overall (whether that be the West or Japan)
Buying Japanese studios for that price would not increase marketshare... And it would take amazingly long to recoup the profits. At least with MSs purchases, they will increase marketshare almost instantly. It might take them forever to recoup the money, but MS sights are long term anyway.
I understand the Bungie deal, they need the expertise in GAAS. I don't understand a potential Japanese purchase..... They won't gain anything considering almost all release on PlayStation and all of them sell far far far far better on PlayStation (if they appear on xbox)
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Mibu no ookami
Member
You clearly don't understand the difference between Sony earning royalties on software sold on their platforms versus the revenue and net profit from having high-selling games developed by talented teams and popular IP, especially if those teams and IP can be augmented by internal resources.
gow3isben
Member
Do not buy Konami man I can't believe people want that. These guys have rubbish studio and manpower. They only have IP.
Buy people who can actually make you good exclusive games as opposed to IPs as otherwise Sony will have to devote other resources for other games on those IPs.
Buy Capcom as major publisher get.
Buy CDPR to counter Microsoft's excessive upcoming WRPG catalogue.
Buy From as it is simply a great get and will also boster their anime portfolio.
Buy Remedy as their games just fit very well with Sony wordwide studios and they can get better from mutual teamwork with them.
In a few years as they start recouping investments buy Square.
In the meantime bolster and absorb smaller studios like Deviation or Ember labs.
All of this combined should be within the 20-25 billion range. Worthy investments.
And by 2024 when all this is achieved they will still be untouchable and start making shit loads of money. And no matter what Microsoft does Playstations will keep flying off shelves.
Buy people who can actually make you good exclusive games as opposed to IPs as otherwise Sony will have to devote other resources for other games on those IPs.
Buy Capcom as major publisher get.
Buy CDPR to counter Microsoft's excessive upcoming WRPG catalogue.
Buy From as it is simply a great get and will also boster their anime portfolio.
Buy Remedy as their games just fit very well with Sony wordwide studios and they can get better from mutual teamwork with them.
In a few years as they start recouping investments buy Square.
In the meantime bolster and absorb smaller studios like Deviation or Ember labs.
All of this combined should be within the 20-25 billion range. Worthy investments.
And by 2024 when all this is achieved they will still be untouchable and start making shit loads of money. And no matter what Microsoft does Playstations will keep flying off shelves.
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Solution is pretty simple: the party is over
PlayStation generated $10 billion in free cash flow over the last four years (FY17- 20). That money was invested in Pictures, Financial and Music's strategic investments (Sony was gracious enough to tolerate Insomniac acquisition ($229 million)
FY20
It's time for Sony's segments to stand on their own merits, w/o PlayStation help
PlayStation generated $10 billion in free cash flow over the last four years (FY17- 20). That money was invested in Pictures, Financial and Music's strategic investments (Sony was gracious enough to tolerate Insomniac acquisition ($229 million)
FY20
It's time for Sony's segments to stand on their own merits, w/o PlayStation help
Zeroing
Banned
I hope they realize they should be betting on PlayStation division. But if I am not mistaken the lenses/camera segment generates a lot of money as well! Sony is the main supplier for apple’s iPhone camera etc!Solution is pretty simple: the party is over
PlayStation generated $10 billion in free cash flow over the last four years (FY17- 20). That money was invested in Pictures, Financial and Music's strategic investments (Sony was gracious enough to tolerate Insomniac acquisition ($229 million)
FY20
It's time for Sony's segments to stand on their own merits, w/o PlayStation help
Oddvintagechap
Member
Sony(Japan) never really wanted to become a gaming company. They always saw it as a Trojan horse for their “real” businesses.Solution is pretty simple: the party is over
PlayStation generated $10 billion in free cash flow over the last four years (FY17- 20). That money was invested in Pictures, Financial and Music's strategic investments (Sony was gracious enough to tolerate Insomniac acquisition ($229 million)
FY20
It's time for Sony's segments to stand on their own merits, w/o PlayStation help
They might finally take it seriously now that Microsoft bought Activision. Instead of funneling money out to duds. That being said most of those sectors are healthy now.
I want Sony to take some risks. Do some weird shit.
Salty Popsicle
Banned
You got that backwards. Bungie approached Microsoft and was willing to be bought out for approximately $2-billion but Microsoft wasn't interested due the amount of creative control/autonomy that Bungie requested. Once Microsoft was out of the picture, Sony came knocking in order to have a response to the Bethesda deal from late 2020, however the price jumped almost two-fold.
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
Sony bought a developer that make FPS to respond to an acquisition that makes mainly RPGs? Source?
Salty Popsicle
Banned
That's my opinion on the matter, but the first part of my response is fact. Microsoft decided not to purchase Bungie for a much lower price than Sony paid.
bitbydeath
Member
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Yoboman
Member
Which coping twitter user told you that?
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
So Bungie was refused by MS asking for the same autonomy they asked Sony in the end and they decided that being refused once was worth doubling down and asking for even more money? That sounds like an interesting plan…
Thirty7ven
Banned
Whoa just making up shit on the fly, even knows the $. Ahahah
Nobody believes you man.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
With all due respect, I've seen this funny analogy from many. $3B revenue =/= profit. To recoup $12B, you need $12B in pure profit as $12B is pure loss. Just like Act/Blizz making $8B (two years) revenue, that doesn't mean profit as expenses aren't told there. PS makes $25B revenue, but only like $3B PROFIT! They spend $22B on a yearly basis to only gain $3B of pure profit.
That's why MS posting gaming revenue without expenses is a complete joke that they seem to have goofy investors with no intellect thinking to question the missing details.
With every acqusition you need to make (pure) profit to recoup your initial loss (acqusition cost), which could extend to a decade or even never.
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