Sunster
Member
if you've been active on this forum in threads relating to black issues you should have pretty good idea about who the black people are that post in those threads and who the white people are.
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Ta-Nehisi Coates on HBO's Confederate
- Thread starter unpopularblargh
- Start date
if you've been active on this forum in threads relating to black issues you should have pretty good idea about who the black people are that post in those threads and who the white people are.
Snarky(HEART)
Banned
Earlier today I got into an argument with a dude on Discord about the show.
He said the black writers chosen for Confederate were "highly respected"
There are very few people that i would trust with the subject no matter the race. As in the only one is Ava Durvenay, maybe John legend
Snarky(HEART)
Banned
Ryan Coogler could do it if it was a movie.
Boombloxer
Member
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
It's fucking disgusting how well this man articulates his thoughts. Coates is one of the best writers I've ever read.
Dash_Riprock
Member
I mean, that shit works in real life so why not for a show?
Can't speak for my dude, but I would guess "both" would get your round pegs and square ones too.
They will be the beards going forward.
Yep, I did and I don't see any reference to respected black producers who believe this is a story worthy to tell. I also see hyperbole over two producers who did a show that the source material involved questionable medieval material (newsflash, people were evil evil people back then, and to be honest, still are now).
What I find hilarious is that conservatives believe this story is gonna be an attack on conservative values while liberals believes it is gonna be porn for the conservatives. Everyone is pissed while I am excited to see where the story will go.
I think this will be a fascinating story to tell that is gonna tell something interesting and different and tell a story that a lot of America needs to hear (i.e. we are still fucked up and aren't that different from a supposed alternate reality where we enslave African Americans because in our reality, we have found other ways to do that)
Except they have equal say in the writing process. HBO fucked up by focusing on D&D (because shocking, Game of Thrones) instead of highlighting an incredibly diverse staff.
Reread the last 5 paragraphs. The problem isn't the producers. The problem is the central premise of the show.
Atom Heart Mother
Banned
the outrage over this show makes me want to actually watch it now lmao
its just alt. history fiction, i still don't understand why people are upset over a fictitious tv show. i think the plot is interesting, i hope they execute it well.
its just alt. history fiction, i still don't understand why people are upset over a fictitious tv show. i think the plot is interesting, i hope they execute it well.
You act as if the black producers will have complete autonomy.
Let's be honest here, HBO focused on D&D because they are the creators and they running the show.
You think if D&D decide to add a bunch of fuckery to the show and the black producers have issue with, HBO will side with the black folks? Come on.
Did you bother reading the article that this thread is about?
Elegant Weapon
Member
The white dudes imagining a modern slave narrative and getting some random black creators to cover their ass seems like "black friends", to me
respected black producers? who the fuck are they again? What are their credits?
Finding some black people who need jobs and/or like money to give your shitty idea some credibility isn't convincing
Did the thrones guys have those respected black producers anywhere near their fantasy drama show? or did they only get them to be their black friends so their slave fantasy doesn't look so bad?
respected black producers? who the fuck are they again? What are their credits?
Finding some black people who need jobs and/or like money to give your shitty idea some credibility isn't convincing
Did the thrones guys have those respected black producers anywhere near their fantasy drama show? or did they only get them to be their black friends so their slave fantasy doesn't look so bad?
Atom Heart Mother
Banned
i read it like two days (or whenever this thread) was made
still a waste of time to complain about this show. the show is just fiction :-S
Yeah I do believe that until proven otherwise. Get over it.
That was never punished and the overt racism never went away. "What if black people were treated like shit" is not alt history, it's real history.
Elegant Weapon
Member
answer my post?
you say they are respected? are you a fan of their previous work or just using their blackness as a defense of the show?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
So is it that you don't understand Coates' well stated argument, or you just don't give a shit about engaging with it.
With this same line of thought is it pointless to complain about any piece of fiction? And if complaining is a waste then praising fiction would be about as wasteful correct?
Stories, and story concepts, get criticized. It has been happening for hundreds of years.
Can you summarize it for me please? Just the main points and their reasoning?
I. Don't. Give. A. Fuck. If. They. Got. Black. Writers.
They don't speak for everybody and black people aren't infallible when it comes to this kind of shit. Stop acting like the presence of black writers means we still can't talk about how Ill advised this shit is.
I don't know anything about them but empire which is a show people watch for the fuckery. I trust them to write about this issue as I trust ray Lewis and Michael Vick talking about kaepernick. Stop waving black writers in my face like I give damn.
They don't speak for everybody and black people aren't infallible when it comes to this kind of shit. Stop acting like the presence of black writers means we still can't talk about how Ill advised this shit is.
I don't know anything about them but empire which is a show people watch for the fuckery. I trust them to write about this issue as I trust ray Lewis and Michael Vick talking about kaepernick. Stop waving black writers in my face like I give damn.
Snarky(HEART)
Banned
At this point I'm close to thinking all the people who are saying "oh I don't get why people are making such a big deal about it I think it'll be interesting" are being disingenuous as fuck and I'm fucking tired of it
Complaining about things is like, 90% of GAF. You've definitely complained about shows.
"I don't give a shit, and won't even try to read anything. But i will voice my opinion anyway"
People love proclaiming their willful ignorance
excelsiorlef
Member
Because it's still their baby. In the reveal D&D flat out said it was their own idea that they'd been wanting to do for years...
Also the two Black producers don't have that exciting or hopeful looking resume either.
Claude Augario
Member
"I just don't understand why black people don't want to see themselves in chains again lol OUTRAGE"
The censorship arguments crack me up about asking for this show to not get made.
HBO since its inception has probably passed up on hundreds if not thousands of show concepts. Were those creators censored by HBO? But nah if they had to do it on this one it due to a vocal public backlash against it, it would be "censorship"? Without threat of violence or any other harm to HBO and the shows creators, simply people vocalizing their opposition, that is "censorship"? Transparent as fuck.
HBO since its inception has probably passed up on hundreds if not thousands of show concepts. Were those creators censored by HBO? But nah if they had to do it on this one it due to a vocal public backlash against it, it would be "censorship"? Without threat of violence or any other harm to HBO and the shows creators, simply people vocalizing their opposition, that is "censorship"? Transparent as fuck.
excelsiorlef
Member
We can't take away shit.
If HBO cancels because of criticism that's a dialogue, no one can make HBO do anything.
daemissary
Member
I'm done having tired semantic arguments with you about the terms 'make' and 'force' in regards to HBO because they are actually irrelevant...what is your personal intent?
It doesn't matter who can or cannot 'force' HBO to do anything...a group of people is trying to stir up enough outrage to 'compel/convince/whatever term you deem appropriate' HBO to take something away from another group of people because they believe they are morally justified in doing so.
Take HBO entirely out of the equation, let's just talk you and me. From what I gather, and correct me if I'm wrong, you personally do not want me as an individual to have the option to watch this show. Whether or not you have the power to make that decision unilaterally or just the power to move the needle 0.00000001% toward making that decision for me, you are still attempting to use what power you have to make decisions for me and that's not right.
Specifically in this scenario when the most likely alternative is, the show exists in the world and everyone who is offended can choose not to watch it and live their lives the exact same way that they are today.
JesseEwiak
Member
There are literally hundreds of TV show that nobody has never seen because somebody convinced a studio executive, "yeah, this'll probably be terrible."
But yes, I think creating a society where people don't want to watch a TV show where African-American people are still slaves is more important than your previous right to see whatever kind of entertainment you want.
David Milch was censored because he never got to do the 2nd season from John form Cincinnati!
They do not have equal say. This is D&Ds show. They came up with the premise (for years according to them) and were going to do it with or without the black writers. They are the showrunners, the authority in the creative process. I am charitable enough to buy that they will value the ideas of their co-writers and even let them write full episodes and arcs. But I am not naive enough to think that ultimately, all things are "equal" or that they could tell D&D what will or won't appear in a script. If it's not something they want to do, D&D will tell them "no" just like they told GRRM when he advised them on what to do with his source material.
Widdle Puppy
Banned
My hatred for the show runners of GoT is very real.
daemissary
Member
And many religious zealots think that creating a society without abortions is more important than a woman's right to choose too. This is obviously hyperbole as I don't truly believe my right to watch the show is a fraction as important but you are using the same logical fallacy.
JesseEwiak
Member
Logical fallacies are not a thing outside of philosophy class, no matter how much some people try to pull them out on the Internet.
But yes, there are zero differences between good and bad things. I mean, there were people who really hated Nazi's. Obviously they're the same as people who loved Nazi's, since they both cared a lot.
daemissary
Member
Spoken like someone who has never taken a philosophy class. Read Nietzsche's the Genealogy of Morals and get back to me about that good vs evil stuff.
Angelus Errare
Banned
People who cry most about censorship and freedom of speech are usually the ones who understand it the least.
ryutaro's mama
Member
And continue to post same rhetoric across several threads, showing their lack of understanding.
Comical to me that people don't get this.
It's so unsurprising to me too, that of all of TV GAF, and the cancellation threads, and the discussion threads about said shows, people saying "Meh I don't want to see this show" is suddenly a problem now that it might stop a show with black fucking slaves in it.
Like.... TV gaf has discussed seasons of television for years, and not a fucking peep about debates on whether shows should get made/cancelled until now. These fucking coincidences are amazing.
Schnozberry
Member
People going on about censorship and free speech are twats. This is a product that is being sold, not a moral treatise. HBO is a private company, and they solicited feedback by making the announcement in the first place. I hope they are listening.
Slavery and the morality of the antebellum south are repugnant, and the vestiges of it that still remain today are responsible for a great deal of disharmony. It's no wonder that people are outspoken in their opposition to the show, and for good reason. There's nothing appealing about watching the worst case scenario for African Americans play out in a fictionalized form, unless controversial exploitative fiction really turns your crank.
I'm sure B & W got intoxicated by the idea of rewriting American History. It's easy to see how you could. Would the abolitionist movement form guerrilla armies after the war? Would they attempt to sabotage the slave trade? How would western expansion work in a divided America? Would the industrial revolution have left behind an agrarian slave based economy? Would technology still advance at the same pace? What would happen in Europe as a result of all this? There are a lot of questions introduced by changing history. Unfortunately, the little we know about the show seems focused on what slavery would look like in the 21st Century. The level of imagination involved seems on par with inserting extra rape into A Song of Ice and Fire.
Slavery and the morality of the antebellum south are repugnant, and the vestiges of it that still remain today are responsible for a great deal of disharmony. It's no wonder that people are outspoken in their opposition to the show, and for good reason. There's nothing appealing about watching the worst case scenario for African Americans play out in a fictionalized form, unless controversial exploitative fiction really turns your crank.
I'm sure B & W got intoxicated by the idea of rewriting American History. It's easy to see how you could. Would the abolitionist movement form guerrilla armies after the war? Would they attempt to sabotage the slave trade? How would western expansion work in a divided America? Would the industrial revolution have left behind an agrarian slave based economy? Would technology still advance at the same pace? What would happen in Europe as a result of all this? There are a lot of questions introduced by changing history. Unfortunately, the little we know about the show seems focused on what slavery would look like in the 21st Century. The level of imagination involved seems on par with inserting extra rape into A Song of Ice and Fire.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
when have they added rape where it wasn't taken from the books?
Kuroi Gogeta
Member
I think that's whats so bizarre about all of this. They have already approved the idea, and by letting the creators speak out they were hoping people would think "Yeah that's a great idea!" and reinforce the decision they've already made.
At this point there is nothing concrete unless everyone involved have already signed contracts. With that said, this kind of shows the gulf of understanding between most white Americans and black Americans. I can't speak for anyone, but I'm sure most black people who have any understanding and engagement with white supremacy would say "this is not a good idea" and it's not a thought exercise in "what if the south had won"(whatever winning would even entail)
KarneeKarnay
Member
I'm willing to wait and watch it before passing judgement on this. There is the potential to tackle serious issues in a mature way. GoT at it's heart is a character drama and that is something that will be very important in a show like this.
If they don't tackle this the right way then this will ruin them and anyone who touched this project.
If they don't tackle this the right way then this will ruin them and anyone who touched this project.
cartoon_soldier
Member
I am willing to guess that some white person will be the main protagonist.
Lol yup...
Claude Augario
Member
Somebody has to free the neo slaves.
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