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Take-Two FY24: Net Loss $3.74 bn ; FY25 Outlook: Net Loss $674 to $606m; GTA V 200 m units, Franchise 425 m; RDR 2 64 m, Series 89 m; NBA 2K 149m

zedinen

Member
Take-Two Reports Results for Fourth Quarter and Fiscal Year 2024
FY24 Net Loss was $3.74 bn
Q4 Net Loss was $2.90 bn

Outlook for FY25
Net Loss $674 to $606 m

GTA Series
GTA V 200 m units
Franchise 425 m units


RDR Series
RDD 2 64 m units
Series 89 m units


NBA 2K Franchise 149 m units


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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Absolutely insane numbers.

3.7 billion dollar loss, what the actual fuck.
About $2.5+ billion of it is a write down of Goodwill and Intangible assets. Those things are junky assets like overpaying to buy companies or brand value which can worthless.

Always be weary investing in any company stock with too much Goodwill and Intang assets as part of their balance sheet assets. especially ones that dont make a lot of money and rely on image or branding as opposed to making profits.
 
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James Sawyer Ford

Gold Member
About $2.5+ billion of it is a write down of Goodwill and Intangible assets. Those things are junky assets like overpaying to buy companies or brand value which can worthless.

Always be weary investing in any company stock with too much Goodwill and Intang assets as part of their balance sheet assets. especially ones that dont make a lot of money and rely on image or branding as opposed to making profits.

Is this from Zynga? What a terrible acquisition that was
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
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James Sawyer Ford

Gold Member
Looks like it. T2 acquires Zynga for $12 billion. And see how Goodwill/Intang jumps up $12B. Zynga is a software company so they arent going to have a lot of tangible assets to begin with.


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I’m not an accountant but I’ve never understood why acquired companies show up as intangible assets based on acquisition price

Why aren’t they just valued based on their book?
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I’m not an accountant but I’ve never understood why acquired companies show up as intangible assets based on acquisition price

Why aren’t they just valued based on their book?
I'm not an accountant either.

But they got to put it there, since a company like Zynga will have barely any book value or physical assets to begin with.
 
I’m not an accountant but I’ve never understood why acquired companies show up as intangible assets based on acquisition price

Why aren’t they just valued based on their book?

Book value doesn't factor in things like IP, brand, empoyees, your moat etc that can drive value.

It's just accounting rules they have to follow
 
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ChiefDada

Gold Member
I’m not an accountant

I am, sadly. Video games are about the only cool thing i got going on but I digress...

but I’ve never understood why acquired companies show up as intangible assets based on acquisition price

Why aren’t they just valued based on their book?

Great question, but think of it this way: If I gave you $20 bill in exchange for another $20 bill would you consider that an interesting investment opportunity? No because it's a wash. There is no intangible value because it is cash. Literally everything else that's not cash will have an intangible value and it will be different for every potential acquirer. One reason is because one buyer can have a pre existing business that would end up providing higher synergies with a target company than another buyer. So the former will pay more than the current fair value of the stand alone target company because they believe they can extract more value out of it when combined with their existing business. When it doesn't pan out, you see write downs like this.
 
If GTA VI fails...

Understand "fail" as not having a crazy long tail like GTA V.

After the departure of Rockstar's top staff, the future looks bleak.
 

efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
I am, sadly. Video games are about the only cool thing i got going on but I digress...



Great question, but think of it this way: If I gave you $20 bill in exchange for another $20 bill would you consider that an interesting investment opportunity? No because it's a wash. There is no intangible value because it is cash. Literally everything else that's not cash will have an intangible value and it will be different for every potential acquirer. One reason is because one buyer can have a pre existing business that would end up providing higher synergies with a target company than another buyer. So the former will pay more than the current fair value of the stand alone target company because they believe they can extract more value out of it when combined with their existing business. When it doesn't pan out, you see write downs like this.
So basically they thought they could recoup their investment but in hindsight overpaid? Why the need for complicated terminology?
 
I’m not an accountant but I’ve never understood why acquired companies show up as intangible assets based on acquisition price

Why aren’t they just valued based on their book?
Accounting transactions have to balance with both sides having the same value. If Take Two paid $12 billion, but the tables and chairs only cost $50, they literally have to plug in the remaining $11 billion dollars and call it "intangible assets." Also, remember that because they paid $12 billion, it was worth $12 billion - it had to be because someone paid that much, These write downs occur once they cannot justify it being worth $12 billion anymore, usually because of declining revenue. Another quirk is that they will never write up the value of the intangible assets, only write it down.
 

James Sawyer Ford

Gold Member
Accounting transactions have to balance with both sides having the same value. If Take Two paid $12 billion, but the tables and chairs only cost $50, they literally have to plug in the remaining $11 billion dollars and call it "intangible assets." Also, remember that because they paid $12 billion, it was worth $12 billion - it had to be because someone paid that much, These write downs occur once they cannot justify it being worth $12 billion anymore, usually because of declining revenue. Another quirk is that they will never write up the value of the intangible assets, only write it down.

Just kind of odd because valuation is in the eye of the beholder. Keeping acquisition value on the books just seems like a historical artifact without much purpose to me.

If im valuing a company the physical assets are important but the intangibles should already be baked into the cash flow they are producing and growing
 
If GTA VI fails...

Understand "fail" as not having a crazy long tail like GTA V.

After the departure of Rockstar's top staff, the future looks bleak.
What makes the GTA franchise impeccable is the budget and resources that are poured into their games. No other studio has a truly unlimited budget. From a gameplay perspective, Rockstar has been one of the least innovative AAA developers in the industry. New blood should hopefully improve their dated gameplay mechanics, not the other way around. I can think of a dozen other studios that could make a better game if they had 2000 developers and 10 years to develop one game
 
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Explosion in sales
Maybe it will be so bad Rockstar will release it on PC day 1.......Not

Wouldn't be surprised if Sony sells 10+ million bundles of GTA 6
I mean, people say PS5 is not going to drop in price, is the Pro going to significantly affect console adoption between Xbox owners or even possible buyers, when the console is already in free fall?

making a Next-Gen console for next year is suicidal for an industy that clearly can't keep up.

with take two bleeding money...i just wonder if they will do a BG3 move:

prioritize the PS5/PC version and release an Xbox version afterwards
 

TransTrender

Gold Member
Looks like it. T2 acquires Zynga for $12 billion. And see how Goodwill/Intang jumps up $12B. Zynga is a software company so they arent going to have a lot of tangible assets to begin with. They announced writing down $2B of it already.


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Since I never paid much attention to Zynga, aside from their minor implosion in 2013 timeframe, it looks like they grow their business by acquiring other companies and their games.
Also a lot of the high dollar acquisitions were post the 2013 implosion:

So yeah, I can see how their $12B acquisition resulted in a bunch of writedowns.
GG.
 
I mean, people say PS5 is not going to drop in price, is the Pro going to significantly affect console adoption between Xbox owners or even possible buyers, when the console is already in free fall?

making a Next-Gen console for next year is suicidal for an industy that clearly can't keep up.

with take two bleeding money...i just wonder if they will do a BG3 move:

prioritize the PS5/PC version and release an Xbox version afterwards
Zero chance. BG3 situation occurred because Microsoft refused to release different versions on series S/X, not because of low console sales. Rockstar want them double dippers on PC because the fomo for many PC players will be too much to resist day 1 on console
 

gow3isben

Member
They will make it up with GTA6 and more.


I bet a lot of money is also being consumed in its production right now.
 
Just kind of odd because valuation is in the eye of the beholder. Keeping acquisition value on the books just seems like a historical artifact without much purpose to me.

If im valuing a company the physical assets are important but the intangibles should already be baked into the cash flow they are producing and growing
You aren't wrong. Initial valuation is measurable, but after that you are correct there is no "market" for Zynga so there is no way to determine fair value after that, so they just keep the $12 billion sitting there in intangible assets until the accountants/auditors determine that there is no way Take Two can justify keeping it at $12 billion. Accounting has a lot of arbitrary rules, but when you take them as a whole they "make sense" logically, and because they are consistently applied it allows easier comparisons because every single company is impacted by this silly stuff the same way.

Also we are only looking at the asset side here - Zynga could have generated billions and billions of dollars of revenue before it started to decline and Take Two had to do this write down. We are looking at this thinking Zynga is worth $3 billion less than what they paid for it, but in the previous years it could have made them a TON of money. It is just that right now it isn't worth $12 billion anymore, and they think it won't be in the future. I don''t know enough about the purchase and Take Two to know if that is the case, and frankly don't really want to know about Take Two lol


edit: sorry for the walls of text. I'm a CPA but never worked as an accountant so sometimes I just write this stuff to refresh my memory
 
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Imtjnotu

Member
I can already smell the crunch articles coming for GTA 6. This game will be in full blown rush mode soo and
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
I’m not an accountant but I’ve never understood why acquired companies show up as intangible assets based on acquisition price

Why aren’t they just valued based on their book?
They don't only use book because book is not the only thing that was acquired. Acquisitions can show up as intangible assets because there must be opposing entries on the ledger that match outlay for the purchase. Cash or cash equivalents decreased. To make the books balance the sum of the amount paid is recorded in other asset entries.

With a purchase like Zynga there won't be enough in the way of tangible assets (buildings, furniture, real estate, etc) to justify the value of the purchase price, so the rest of the value will go into intangible assets (intellectual property, goodwill, trademarks, etc).

The value of Zynga's portfolio of games would be considered intangible assets. They would live on the goodwill line because those games, the brand recognition they support, and the net positive competitive impact for T2 are the primary reason T2 paid more (goodwill) than Zynga was actually worth. Now they're writing down that value since those assets are no longer (or never actually were) worth what was paid for them. They don't have any choice but to evaluate goodwill every year. If they can't prove that goodwill has maintained its value they have to recognize the loss of value via impairment.
 

lmimmfn

Member
I’m not an accountant but I’ve never understood why acquired companies show up as intangible assets based on acquisition price

Why aren’t they just valued based on their book?
It's just a mechanism of acquiring other companies as tax write offs/loss making to write off last year's profits

E.g. year 1 make 1 billion profit, pay tax.
Year 2 acquire company for 1.5 billion, omg company suffered a .5 million loss, write off previous years 1 billion tax as a loss and claim it all back.

It's what is available to regular folk as a means of fairness but supercharged and abused by large corporations to effectively pay next to 0 tax.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
This company has NBA 2K, GTA, GTA Online, and Red Dead. IMO there's no excuse for them to not be making money other than mismanagement.
Years back before they started making bank on GTA Online and mtx trends, T2 usually lost money every year. what would happen is they make big profits when GTA launched. But other years they'd somehow still lose money. The entire company hinges on GTA success.

I had to do a google check just now to confirm just in case I was misremembering or only cherry picking some years. Nope. I was right.


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nush

Gold Member
How do take two of all publishers lose that much money? Wtf
Years back I went over to their New York office to do some work for a week. Come Friday evening I needed to go to the airport to go back home. My manager told me to call “Tammy in corporate” and she’ll book a car for me. Hour later Tammy calls and tells me the car is outside. So I grab my suitcase and go down. Expectation, a yellow cab, reality a stretched limo. Fucking. Sweet. I was just a low level manager.

Shit like that times infinity is how they lose that much money.
 
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