Support NeoGAF

[JimiNutz]

Trying to get Daisy Ridley to convincingly swing a lightsaber around really killed it for me as well.
The lightsaber duels in the ST were all pretty shit and I partly blame Rey/Ridley for that.

Driver was solid but Ridley looked so stupid wildly swinging her saber around. She just isn't particularly athletic and looked stupid.

They had Boyega on a talk show over here in the UK and they jokingly had him swinging a toy saber around (this was in the lead up to TFA) and he just looked so much better using the saber.

Driver & Boyega definitely had potential in them to give us a saber duel that was on par with the speed and technique displayed in the Duel of the Fates from The Phantom Menace.

They should have let Rey just use her force powers or whatever. Leave the duelling to the actors that can make it look awesome and not retarded.

 

[borborygmus]

Trying to get Daisy Ridley to convincingly swing a lightsaber around really killed it for me as well.
The lightsaber duels in the ST were all pretty shit and I partly blame Rey/Ridley for that.

Driver was solid but Ridley looked so stupid wildly swinging her saber around. She just isn't particularly athletic and looked stupid.

They had Boyega on a talk show over here in the UK and they jokingly had him swinging a toy saber around (this was in the lead up to TFA) and he just looked so much better using the saber.

Driver & Boyega definitely had potential in them to give us a saber duel that was on par with the speed and technique displayed in the Duel of the Fates from The Phantom Menace.

They should have let Rey just use her force powers or whatever. Leave the duelling to the actors that can make it look awesome and not retarded.

Nah Boyega can't use it either. He can't refrain from immediately striking a Jedi pose the second he gets it.

 

[appaws]

Criticism for those films is fine. What I don't get though are those people that literally see anything as woke/sjw propaganda. Like you can't have a movie with a female lead nowadays without someone coming up telling its woke and agenda driven.

I agree with you on that. I like bad-ass female characters. And I like bad-ass sexy female characters. I hate how they made Daisy Ridley completely sexless, or maybe that is just how she is all the time. I wish the chick from Orphan Black had gotten that role. I heard a long time ago that she was in the running for it.

I don't think the critics of SJW influence in movies disdain all female lead characters. Things like Aliens or Terminator or even Tomb Raider are beloved and seem completely non-political. Star Wars would probably have gotten the benefit of the doubt, but the new movies are just lame. Really no fun at all. (Well, I think Rogue One was OK)

Female heroines can have some sex appeal, it's OK. They don't have to make a point of them being androgynous. I'm not talking about gratuitous panty shots like some B-grade anime...but its OK for the character to be sexy and womanly. 98% of women LIKE being sexy and womanly.

 

[ResilientBanana]

I thought they were mostly poorly written movies.

 

[JimiNutz]

Nah Boyega can't use it either. He can't refrain from immediately striking a Jedi pose the second he gets it.

Still swings it better than Ridley.

Finn should have been a force user as well.

If they wanted to get woke with it they could have kept Rey as the Mary Sue (makes sense that she'd naturally be powerful with minimal work put in as she's a Palpatine) and Finn could have been the one that had to work hard to hone his skills (thus signifying the backs mans struggle lol)

 

[Madflavor]

The Star Wars Sequels were such great movies, they made less and less money with each film release.

 

[oagboghi2]

Conservatives digging for SJW nonsense to be upset by is just as eye roll inducing as leftists crying over lack of diversity and inclusion.

Last Jedi was the antithesis of the major Hollywood blockbuster, as much as a Disney produced Star Wars could be. The very fact that so few are able to give the film that credit is unfortunate. People point to Luke drinking milk from an alien teet as to why the movie stunk, but I'd argue that's exactly why it was awesome. Different horses for different courses, I guess.

People say it was shit because it was shit

Stop trying to defend an awful movie by dragging bullshit politics into in.

I don't watch movies with a magnifying glass and this mindset of "oh look, here is a leader figure portrayed by a women, here is a black/asian guy just for the sake of diversity" to jump to the conclusion its woke propaganda. I just watch the movie and if I enjoy it then the movie did what it supposed to do. Some of y'all really sound like you just can't accept roles being played by minorities and women, except the women is playing some sex symbol or cliché from yesterday and the minorities only play second fiddle (as in easily interchangeable roles). At least that's what it sounds like.

It sounds like you made this thread with an agenda.

 

[Boss Mog]

Tons of SJW garbage and if you can't see it OP it just means you've already been indoctrinated. But more than the SJW stuff the movies themselves are terrible with very poor writing and plots.

 

[oagboghi2]

People who hate the sequel trilogy are neglecting how rarely sequels live up to the originals in the first place. Movies like Back to the Future 2, Aliens, or Terminator 2 are the exception to the rule - not the rule.

For Empire and Return of the Jedi to be as awesome as they were was nearly unimaginable. On top of that, you had the entire Lucas envisioned prequel trilogy, and then the sequel trilogy which he had little to no involvement in.

Frankly, we should be grateful 8, 9, 10, Solo, and Rogue One were as competent as they were. They're not bad movies whatsoever, and only Rise of Skywalker really felt rushed in tying up way too many loose ends at once.

Yall some nerds, quite frankly

We should be grateful for bad movies? The fuck is this?
Where did this mentality come from? I never saw people talk like this before

 

[SpongebobSquaredance]

It sounds like you made this thread with an agenda.

 

[carlosrox]

The Force is Female, that's how.

For the record I actually really enjoy them all for what they are. But it's not hard to see what they're trying to do with the series there.

 

[sol_bad]

The Star Wars Sequels were such great movies, they made less and less money with each film release.

Sort of like the original trilogy?
What's thay Lucas quote again?
It's like poetry, it rhymes?

*EDIT*
Added box office numbers

Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope

www.boxofficemojo.com

Star Wars: Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back

www.boxofficemojo.com

Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi

www.boxofficemojo.com

 

[Madflavor]

Sort of like the original trilogy?
What's thay Lucas quote again?
It's like poetry, it rhymes?

*EDIT*
Added box office numbers

Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope

www.boxofficemojo.com

Star Wars: Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back

www.boxofficemojo.com

Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi

www.boxofficemojo.com

Not quite. Star Wars is mostly a box office juggernaut Domestically. It does do well overseas, but internationally it's not as popular as it is in the US. So going by the very numbers you've posted, the domestic performance dipped with ESB, but then increased with RotJ. The opening weekends for each film also increased exponentially between films. You also have to consider the original Star Wars was in theaters for a very long time because of how groundbreaking it was. To that point, every subsequent film performed just fine.

Juxtapose that with the Sequel Trilogy, where each subsequent film made less money in all areas, which are all time domestic, international, and opening weekends. They went from $2billion > 1.3billion > 1 billion. Those are colossal drops compared to the OT. On top of that merchandise sales are down, compared to Star Wars merchandise being everywhere during and well after the OT, where it became a cultural phenomenon. Let's also juxtapose this with the Marvel Cinematic Universe, which has continue to grow and grow, and has smashed box office records. The MCU and the ST are wonderful studies on how to and how not to handle your film franchises.

They fucking blew it with the ST.

 

[Afro Republican]

People are actually here defending the new trilogy (especially TLJ) unironically?

What?

 

[DeepBreath87]

I don’t know if it did or didn’t. I just know the story was shit. Like teenage fan fiction level trash. It was just so BAD. It’s hard for me to wrap my head around how bad it was. The prequels were bad in execution, but the story wasn’t awful on its face. They just screwed it up with terrible dialogue, an over reliance on CG, and a few bad set pieces. The bones were there for a good story.

The sequels are just garbage. Almost all the new characters suck. They are either trash right away or their potential is wasted. Disney went out of their way to directly shit on all the old characters except Leah, who they turned into a joke. The story itself is disjointed and meandering. Nothing is explained. There’s almost no narrative structure between the 3 movies. They are just horrendous.

 

[sol_bad]

Not quite. Star Wars is mostly a box office juggernaut Domestically. It does do well overseas, but internationally it's not as popular as it is in the US. So going by the very numbers you've posted, the domestic performance dipped with ESB, but then increased with RotJ. The opening weekends for each film also increased exponentially between films. You also have to consider the original Star Wars was in theaters for a very long time because of how groundbreaking it was. To that point, every subsequent film performed just fine.

Juxtapose that with the Sequel Trilogy, where each subsequent film made less money in all areas, which are all time domestic, international, and opening weekends. They went from $2billion > 1.3billion > 1 billion. Those are colossal drops compared to the OT. On top of that merchandise sales are down, compared to Star Wars merchandise being everywhere during and well after the OT, where it became a cultural phenomenon. Let's also juxtapose this with the Marvel Cinematic Universe, which has continue to grow and grow, and has smashed box office records. The MCU and the ST are wonderful studies on how to and how not to handle your film franchises.

They fucking blew it with the ST.

wow
Talk about moving the goal posts.

 

[gow3isben]

Politics aside why were the duels in the prequel trilogy 5 million times better than the sequel trilogy despite being ages older?

 

[slugbahr]

The latest Star Wars Trilogy is pandering towards SJWs - How?

Who.
Gives.
A.
Shit.

The movies have been made and their intent doesn't matter anymore.
They are just movies - watch them. Ignore them. Enjoy them. Criticize them. Whatever.

Tldr ... watch what you want. Don't stress about what others are doing. Don't tell others they are wrong for their opinion.

 

[-Arcadia-]

Politics aside why were the duels in the prequel trilogy 5 million times better than the sequel trilogy despite being ages older?

There was so much talk about twirly twirly and swordfighting realism, but in the end, I feel the same. I enjoyed the prequel fights so much more.

The best lightsaber duel in the sequels is the end of The Force Awakens. Maybe the best part of that movie. It’s emotionally charged, brutal, edge-of-your-seat, and scary for the rookies. Classic Star Wars. It’s a shame more of the trilogy couldn’t be like that.

 

[-Arcadia-]

On course, I think a lot of the perception of an SJW trilogy comes from The Last Jedi, and an interview shortly before release, about how the whole character and storyline of Admiral Holdo is a commentary of gender workplace politics.

It doesn’t really come off like that in the story, just... confusing, but add it to all the force is female junk, leftist media targeting fans for not liking the movie, and Rey being a paper-thin hero insert/Mary Sue and I think the thing just took on a life of its own.

To me, it’s more just a bad trilogy than an SJW one. There is way worse out there. Way worse.

 

[supernova8]

It didn't really feel as epic as the older movies but that's more to do with the fact that making "epic" (read: basically all CG and FX) movies isn't as hard as it was like 10, 20 , 30 years ago. I also didn't see the SJW side of things, although on John Boyega is a bit of an attention whore.

 

[bender]

Conservatives digging for SJW nonsense to be upset by is just as eye roll inducing as leftists crying over lack of diversity and inclusion.

Made all the funnier when you consider the subject matter has always sucked.

 

[MilkyJoe]

I don't watch movies with a magnifying glass and this mindset of "oh look, here is a leader figure portrayed by a women, here is a black/asian guy just for the sake of diversity" to jump to the conclusion its woke propaganda. I just watch the movie and if I enjoy it then the movie did what it supposed to do. Some of y'all really sound like you just can't accept roles being played by minorities and women, except the women is playing some sex symbol or cliché from yesterday and the minorities only play second fiddle (as in easily interchangeable roles). At least that's what it sounds like.

Maybe you're to simple to notice?

Sort of like the original trilogy?
What's thay Lucas quote again?
It's like poetry, it rhymes?

*EDIT*
Added box office numbers

Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope

www.boxofficemojo.com

Star Wars: Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back

www.boxofficemojo.com

Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi

www.boxofficemojo.com

It's this shit again. Jpg

 

[JimiNutz]

Politics aside why were the duels in the prequel trilogy 5 million times better than the sequel trilogy despite being ages older?

Rey sucks with the saber.

I'm assuming they didn't use the same choreography team as well.

The shitty saber duels were my biggest disappointment with the ST.

Lots of the PT was shit but you at least always had at least one good saber action scene or duel in each movie. I'm an easy man to please when it comes to Star Wars and they still couldn't please me.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Rey sucks with the saber.

I'm assuming they didn't use the same choreography team as well.

The shitty saber duels were my biggest disappointment with the ST.

Lots of the PT was shit but you at least always had at least one good saber action scene or duel in each movie. I'm an easy man to please when it comes to Star Wars and they still couldn't please me.

How hard is it not to fuck up star wars? An impossible task apparently, so much so i haven't even seen the last one.

Disney has to sell it on after this. Mando 2 has bombed, I guarantee that's why Disney plus is coming to xbox, people just don't give a shit about Disney Star Wars.

 

[EviLore]

Rey sucks with the saber.

I'm assuming they didn't use the same choreography team as well.

The shitty saber duels were my biggest disappointment with the ST.

Lots of the PT was shit but you at least always had at least one good saber action scene or duel in each movie. I'm an easy man to please when it comes to Star Wars and they still couldn't please me.

It all comes down to training and priorities. You can see Daisy and Adam got in physical shape for the roles, but they’re all show and no go. Back in the PT Ewan and Hayden put in real work for the lightsaber battles:

 

[JimiNutz]

How hard is it not to fuck up star wars? An impossible task apparently, so much so i haven't even seen the last one.

Disney has to sell it on after this. Mando 2 has bombed, I guarantee that's why Disney plus is coming to xbox, people just don't give a shit about Disney Star Wars.

You did yourself a favour, episode 9 was really fucking shit.

I dunno if Disney will sell but it seems like George Lucas is involved again in more of a consultant/advisory role. Maybe he'll be able to help turn things around.

 

[bender]

I dunno if Disney will sell but it seems like George Lucas is involved again in more of a consultant/advisory role. Maybe he'll be able to help turn things around.

 

[JimiNutz]

It all comes down to training and priorities. You can see Daisy and Adam got in physical shape for the roles, but they’re all show and no go. Back in the PT Ewan and Hayden put in real work for the lightsaber battles:

Yeah I remember seeing footage of Ewen training for The Phantom Menace and you could see that it was an incredibly important part of the film that was given a lot of resource and dedication.

Hopefully we get at least one more Star Wars project in future that prioritises the saber duels again.

 

[kretos]

It kills people that Star Wars today is better than ever.

The 8 mins Duel on Mustafar alone is better than the entire 3 movies, and it's probably only going to get worse with the high republic

 

[MilkyJoe]

It kills people that Star Wars today is better than ever.

What does this mean?

 

[bender]

What does this mean?

 

[borborygmus]

The prequels are theatrically very competent. A lot of attention was given to the story structure and it's actually full of clever plot devices. There is a solid understanding of having different story "acts" some of which are very impactful duels. The story ebbs and flows. There is tragedy and drama. But the script absolutely blows and there's just so much meandering bullshit that I assume is a result of subpar editing, and the heavy handed use of CGI was just overkill. George Lucas is a playright type of person, not a director. He needed a competent co-director. The prequels suck overall but there's something in them that could have been great.

The sequel trilogy on the other hand is completely incompetent in every way. There are no redeeming qualities whatsoever. There's no underlying structure. There's no hero's journey. There is no foreshadowing and no callbacks. There is no personal struggle. Everything is visibly made up on the spot with little regard for any kind of big picture of what the movies are actually about. It's a lot like LOST in its dedication to pretend there's something to it when there really isn't. And the producers and directors have admitted to using it as a vehicle for their leftist agenda, so I don't see how that is even debated.

 

[drganon]

Maybe the films do pay nods to current political/cultural stuff, but I wouldn't mind if the films were good. The force awakens was a rip off of a new hope, the last jedi was more concerned with trying to be clever than good, and rogue one answered a question no one asked. Cant say anything about solo or rise of Skywalker since they killed my enthusiasm for star wars by that point.

 

[SpongebobSquaredance]

But the script absolutely blows and there's just so much meandering bullshit that I assume is a result of subpar editing, and the heavy handed use of CGI was just overkill. George Lucas is a playright type of person, not a director. He needed a competent co-director. The prequels suck overall but there's something in them that could have been great.

Definitely, even III ain't safe from it and I love that movie its in my top 3 Star Wars movies.. but maaan those dialogues.. best/worst of them all:
Anakin: You are so…beautiful.
Padme: It’s only because I’m so in love.
Anakin: No. No, it’s because I’m so in love with you.
Padme: Then love has blinded you?
Anakin: Well…that’s not exactly what I meant.
Padme: But it’s probably true

 

[cheststrongwell]

I really enjoyed the first one, but then they totally wasted Finn by turning him into a comedy side kick. I turn of my brain for popcorn movies, so any SJW stuff didn't bother me.

 

[Madflavor]

wow
Talk about moving the goal posts.

You're comparing a Trilogy of films that came out today, to a Trilogy of films that came out 40 years ago. Think on it, maybe you'll figure out why moving the goal posts was necessary.

 

[buizel]

^ single handedly ruined my childhood. went to my parents house and burnt my entire star wars collection. then i shot up a mosque

 

[Madflavor]

My favorite part of the ST is when more and more actors came out to complain how bullshit it was, or accidentally revealed bts facts that contradicted the directors and producers statements on how well planned it was.

When you compare the enthusiasm from the cast during the marketing campaign for TFA, to the marketing for TRoS, they all looked so mentally checked out. Daisy was probably happy to be done, John felt fucked over, Oscar and Adam were probably thinking about better roles for better films they've been casted for, and Mark just looked miserable.

 

[oagboghi2]

wow
Talk about moving the goal posts.

of course you can't see the difference.

 

[pel1300]

Anyone who doesn't notice it at this point is blind.

Even Roz of a very left learning network like ET Canada noticed it:

 

[SpongebobSquaredance]

I turn of my brain for popcorn movies, so any SJW stuff didn't bother me.

Agreed.

 

[RetroRibosome]

Force Awakens was the only one I liked even if it was something of a rehash, the others were honestly just boring.

But after how bad the prequels who really cares? Star Wars is dead.

 

[buizel]

Agreed.

then why y'all hate on transformers revenge of the fallen

i swear to god itll come back as a hidden gem, like speed racer did

 

[cryptoadam]

Lol

The monster Gonzaga's of the 2nd girl make it worth it though.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

The Last Jedi was the only really good one. Worst Star Wars trilogy.

Oh and Revenge of the Fallen > Speed Racer

 

[Nymphae]

 

[Jubenhimer]

It's not really the movies themselves doing it, it's the people behind them. People like Kathleen Kennedy or Jar Jar Abrams lecturing us about how we must accept Rey and these movies, or else we're bigots. That's what people are annoyed by, nobody wants to be blackmailed into liking something. If a movie is genuinely good, you shouldn't have to prop it up with identity politics, you should just let it speak for itself. Instead, Disney/LucasFilm are trying to use woke rhetoric as a way to prop up otherwise lame movies.

 

[VulcanRaven]

I liked The Force Awakens but the other two weren't very good. The alleged SJW stuff had nothing to do with why they were bad. They were bad for other reasons. I liked Rey and it was great to see the old characters again. I just wish that they hadn't

Spoiler

killed Luke and Leia.

 

[Madflavor]

Rey is one of the dullest, most forgettable protagonists in recent memory. Wanting to find her parents was all she had going for her, across three films. Everything came so easy to her, and was able to achieve power and status right from the get go, without training, learning through failure, or experience beyond “Hurr she’s a scrapper.” Just a terrible and uncompelling character arc.

Luke’s story completely blew Rey’s out of the water. Luke in RoTJ is almost an entirely different man than the Luke in ANH. A proper, well executed arc. Whereas Rey’s was more of a character flatline. The character will have almost no legacy to leave behind.