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[_Ex_]

I mainly want to bring attention to this article:

8+ years of awful, politicized English localizations in games and anime

Many online are unaware just how badly English localizations of both anime and games have been for the past 8+ years, and many instances will be provided as an example. For those not aware…

nichegamer.com

The article is a month old, but I only came across it today. So new-to-me, maybe new-to-you.

If you read over the article, you may have thoughts or opinions on the subject to share here.

Do you think game localizations are being done well these days? Or do you think there's too much, um, "creative change" being implemented?

 

[nial]

8 years? Try forever.

 

[sigmaZ]

Localization is harder than a lot of people realize and has always had it's contentious points. People underestimate the cultural-linguistic gap between Japanese and English. That said screw adding agenda into the translation.

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

 

[Saber]

Localization almost aways did a garbage work, no news about it.
It's just that localization nowadays are on par with generation z.

 

[LakeOf9]

Localizations are better than they’ve ever been, and morons like NicheGamer (who would unironically go “all according to keikaku, translators note keikaku means plan”) being mad at them only reinforces that further.

 

[_Ex_]

Historically localizations haven't been great, yes. But I implore you all to read the article, and look at the specific examples cited, that are related to gaming. There's seems to be a seedy agenda that has propagated within the past decade.

 

[jshackles]

One of the reasons I decided to start learning Japanese in earnest a few years ago - translations lately can be mired in political garbage that doesn't get the tone or message right in a lot of cases.

 

[Ikutachi]

I trust fan translations more.

 

[graywolf323]

One of the reasons I decided to start learning Japanese in earnest a few years ago - translations lately can be mired in political garbage that doesn't get the tone or message right in a lot of cases.

yeah, the problem is they listen to the localization teams seemingly not realizing that these teams are basically entirely staffed by people more focused on pushing a political agenda now, they trust them to say what’s not “acceptable” in the West

From Japan to the world: How to translate a game

TOKYO — Behind the global success of Japanese video games lies a delicate task: appealing to overseas players whose expectations on issues such as sexism are increasingly influencing the content of major titles.

www.todayonline.com

'NO LONGER ACCEPTABLE'​

A better understanding of Japanese culture among players means adaptations can be more subtle — the "Yakuza" series is now called "Like a Dragon", closer to the original Japanese.

LGBTQ caricatures and sexist cliches have also been axed.
"Many representations which were normal in Japan in the first 'Like a Dragon' games are no longer acceptable today," Mr Masayoshi Yokoyama, the series' executive producer, told AFP.

"We ask our teams in the United States and Europe to read the game's script, and they tell us if they see things that wouldn't be acceptable in their country," he said.

Changes often focus on "alcohol, politics or religion", Mr Froget said, while cultural reference points also differ.

 

[Faust]

Localizations are better than they’ve ever been, and morons like NicheGamer (who would unironically go “all according to keikaku, translators note keikaku means plan”) being mad at them only reinforces that further.

There is a clear trend in localizations over the last 10 years that didn’t exist before hand. True, localization has never been great, however it has gotten to the point of absurdity.

From TMS#FE removing scenes that shows the seedy underbelly of idol culture, minimizing its impact to altering entire scenes to push modern western agendas in anime via shows like Dragon Maid.

These aren’t small changes or a minority in the localized space. We can even see the very same localizers who are doing this work on places like X/Twitter celebrating their changes and admitting they are doing it to push aforementioned agendas.

With the growth of AI, we can only hope companies use that to give us as true to the original intent as possible. But I am not going to hold my breath.

 

[Hypereides]

Historically localizations haven't been great, yes. But I implore you all to read the article, and look at the specific examples cited, that are related to gaming. There's seems to be a seedy agenda that has propagated within the past decade.

This. Translations have always been spotty. However, there's been a distinct shift between what they used to do and what they're doing now. Its no longer playful or unintended errors.

 

[crackajack]

Localization is harder than a lot of people realize and has always had it's contentious points. People underestimate the cultural-linguistic gap between Japanese and English. That said screw adding agenda into the translation.

I realized how different languages are only after learning that even simple stuff can be very different in other languages. Which get's a lot faster obvious for English speakers when learning anything outside indoeuropean/germanic/romance languages. Those share enough of logic that anyone should get it rather easily after some time. Gendered stuff might be weird, but that's more English alone, not really bothering the rest of the family, so maybe English speakers might find translating even in their own language relatives already more preplexing ... but I only know the tinyest bit of Japanese, and eg I have no idea how anyone would try to translate the o in ocha when just cha would be the only thing to say in anything "western", or maybe outright turn it into sencha if you want to make it clearer, but then certainly omiting the honorific o, that just makes no f-ing sense to me.
The impossibility of translating everything compeltely correct is already one thing were I certainly can see why translation have to take liberties. But I also don't think "agendas" can be entirely omited, since something that might be legal to say in one country might be entirely illegal in another, or just not socially acceptable, and with social media mobs running wild especially in America, of course any corporation with any fear of lost sales might want to adjust their own work. It would be naive to expect them to just ignore the views of their own potential customers or rather the social warfare surrounding them.
As much as we think this and that law and morale stance is inferior or superior or whatever, there are just differences and getting it right is not as easy as just doing it word for word and keeping an intent.
Similar with German trauma of their own past and being afraid to do anything with nazi symbols wrong and thus outright censored themselves for decades in games, while the law did explicitly allow it in works of arts, which movies certainly used since forever and it took I think Bethesda to actually ask if they finally can leave the Swastikas in Wolfenstein TNC to get the greenlight for every other game, which probably would not have happened some years ago with games glorifying violence then still being thrown in kinda the same basket. Germany chilled out a bit lately, Japan still have their very weird censorship going on for porn, whereas America always had a bigger problem with sexy, but now also is pretty divided on opinions in many many things with left and right battling it out and neither appearing at the bottom line reasonable at all.

 

[LakeOf9]

There is a clear trend in localizations over the last 10 years that didn’t exist before hand. True, localization has never been great, however it has gotten to the point of absurdity.

From TMS#FE removing scenes that shows the seedy underbelly of idol culture, minimizing its impact to altering entire scenes to push modern western agendas in anime via shows like Dragon Maid.

These aren’t small changes or a minority in the localized space. We can even see the very same localizers who are doing this work on places like X/Twitter celebrating their changes and admitting they are doing it to push aforementioned agendas.

With the growth of AI, we can only hope companies use that to give us as true to the original intent as possible. But I am not going to hold my breath.

I understand the concern, and to be fair bad localizations do exist still (and probably always will). But it’s important to note that the examples in the linked article are largely the better part of a decade old (if not more). TMS is apparently an eight year old game (looking it up). Fire Emblem Fates is nine years old. The BOTW example is the sort of flavor text localization that has always been the case with localizations, and is hardly new (the game is also seven years old). Tokyo Xanadu is nine years old. Azure Striker is ten years old.

When the examples of “bad” localization are AT THE NEWEST seven years old, and many of them aren’t even bad, just stylistic linguistic changes, then I really find it hard to take umbrage, at least with the evidence as presented. If NicheGamer wants to be outraged at real and perceived bad localizations that are almost a decade old, sure, but this is hardly something happening NOW.

 

[Faust]

I understand the concern, and to be fair bad localizations do exist still (and probably always will). But it’s important to note that the examples in the linked article are largely the better part of a decade old (if not more). TMS is apparently an eight year old game (looking it up). Fire Emblem Fates is nine years old. The BOTW example is the sort of flavor text localization that has always been the case with localizations, and is hardly new (the game is also seven years old). Tokyo Xanadu is nine years old. Azure Striker is ten years old.

When the examples of “bad” localization are AT THE NEWEST seven years old, and many of them aren’t even bad, just stylistic linguistic changes, then I really find it hard to take umbrage, at least with the evidence as presented. If NicheGamer wants to be outraged at real and perceived bad localizations that are almost a decade old, sure, but this is hardly something happening NOW.

If you would like newer games and anime with insulting localizations, just take a look at AI Somnium Files 2, Fire Emblem Engage, Dark Gathering, Trails of franchise, and more. Many things new were mentioned in the article, only a couple months to a year old.

Not sure how you could have missed that unless you did not even read the article.

 

[YukiOnna]

Of course they have too much control and a lot of said localizers openly gloat and admit how much they've changed and how much they can get away with whether it was to own their hated political party they assume their audience is from, suggesting this narrative that this content is offensive, and outright just hate the country and its content. It's always been trash, but it's good it's reached a fever point with the AI introduction that exposes it in a bigger light.

Nothing wrong with leaving jokes or culture as is. If they player is interested about what they learned, they will seek it out. Nor should they be involved in the creative process where they censor it for this make believe "global standard" and feed lies to the developers. It's all in bad faith with their censorship, straight up removal, "Edits" that result in swathing changes that never had any desire to "keep the intent" and many more.

All agenda driven and they have no right being that close or speaking for customers.

 

[March Climber]

If this type of research gets american fans of japanese and korean media on board with AI, then I’m all for you guys here and elsewhere fighting against this.

I personally don’t care enough as I still prefer dubbed work, but if this makes AI seen as less of a boogeyman and seen as more of a solution then that’s a good thing.

 

[ReyBrujo]

but I only know the tinyest bit of Japanese, and eg I have no idea how anyone would try to translate the o in ocha when just cha would be the only thing to say in anything "western"

Just chiming in, the "o" in ocha is a vestige of old times, not even Japanese nowadays care (or probably know) much about either the "o" or the "go" (which fulfills the same idea, only that one is for words coming from Chinese and the other from Japanese). It's similar as to why English has so many unnecessary mute vowels and consonants (especially with "B" and "P" like in receipt, plumber, doubt, debt, etc), vestiges from old people who wanted English to go back to their Latin and Greek roots. I had the issue you mentioned, when I learned that the "o" is honorific and so I thought, "maybe a good translation would be 'honorable tea', 'honorable birthday', 'honorable effort', etc, etc). That's is actually being more Catholic than the Pope: If they don't care about the "o" why should the translation care?

 

[LakeOf9]

If you would like newer games and anime with insulting localizations, just take a look at AI Somnium Files 2, Fire Emblem Engage, Dark Gathering, Trails of franchise, and more. Many things new were mentioned in the article, only a couple months to a year old.

Not sure how you could have missed that unless you did not even read the article.

I read the article, that’s why I said “largely”. My point is bad localizations will always exist. There’s no ongoing trend to make them bad or worse as the article posits. Having more representation in dialog from the get go, or being more aware of local cultural values when localizing, is neither a new thing, nor a bad thing. NG wants to pretend it is, because that’s their entire modus operandi.

Separate from their bad faith arguments, and sticking to just our discussion, I reiterate - poor localizations (unfortunately) still exist. But that’ll always be the case (it’s not even limited to Japanese to English either, look at how poor Xbox’s German UI is because of poor localization).

It’s a shame, and we can and should ask for better in those cases where it is warranted, but we also shouldn’t muddy the waters the way NG’s one track shtick always inevitably does.

 

[Faust]

I read the article, that’s why I said “largely”. My point is bad localizations will always exist. There’s no ongoing trend to make them bad or worse as the article posits. Having more representation in dialog from the get go, or being more aware of local cultural values when localizing, is neither a new thing, nor a bad thing. NG wants to pretend it is, because that’s their entire modus operandi.

Separate from their bad faith arguments, and sticking to just our discussion, I reiterate - poor localizations (unfortunately) still exist. But that’ll always be the case (it’s not even limited to Japanese to English either, look at how poor Xbox’s German UI is because of poor localization).

It’s a shame, and we can and should ask for better in those cases where it is warranted, but we also shouldn’t muddy the waters the way NG’s one track shtick always inevitably does.

Older localisations had minor changes to remove crosses or in just generally poor translation, or childish jokes as games were seen for kids. Now we have localisations that actively push agendas. This is an obvious trend pointed out clearly by NG here where it becomes increasingly more common in the modern titles of the last 2-3 years even compared to 5-6 years ago or 9-10 years ago.

I normally do not care for the nature of NG articles, but nothing here is "bad faith". What is bad faith is dismissing the article and trying to frame it as such because it doesn't align with what you want to see or what you believe.

 

[LakeOf9]

Older localisations had minor changes to remove crosses or in just generally poor translation, or childish jokes as games were seen for kids. Now we have localisations that actively push agendas. This is an obvious trend pointed out clearly by NG here where it becomes increasingly more common in the modern titles of the last 2-3 years even compared to 5-6 years ago or 9-10 years ago.

I normally do not care for the nature of NG articles, but nothing here is "bad faith". What is bad faith is dismissing the article and trying to frame it as such because it doesn't align with what you want to see or what you believe.

We’ll agree to disagree

 

[simpatico]

I'd rather it be stilted and rigid instead of adding color or texture that's not in the original dialog. When I'm playing a foreign language game I never take the dialog at face value. Doing more to interfere with the original meaning will just make it worse. I'd rather have the broken english so I can try to piece it together in my head.

 

[clintar]

Weird, this related video showed up on my recommended videos a couple of days ago. Must be some strong sentiment out there over this.

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

Just chiming in, the "o" in ocha is a vestige of old times, not even Japanese nowadays care (or probably know) much about either the "o" or the "go" (which fulfills the same idea, only that one is for words coming from Chinese and the other from Japanese). It's similar as to why English has so many unnecessary mute vowels and consonants (especially with "B" and "P" like in receipt, plumber, doubt, debt, etc), vestiges from old people who wanted English to go back to their Latin and Greek roots. I had the issue you mentioned, when I learned that the "o" is honorific and so I thought, "maybe a good translation would be 'honorable tea', 'honorable birthday', 'honorable effort', etc, etc). That's is actually being more Catholic than the Pope: If they don't care about the "o" why should the translation care?

 

[March Climber]

To add an example as to why I'm pro A.I. on this and many other matters, this is where I see the future heading:




Eventually it will get better than this. You all know it will. They just need to figure out the laws, rules, fees, and payments around the voice actors and voice coaches, and this minor dubbing issue will all be over.

I have my own gripes with the dubbing industry that's separate from this issue, so this would solve my problem as well as your own and thus we can all be happier.