Aces&Eights
Member
I think the government is saying this for legal purposes. If you want to go there, you can. However, the US is on record saying not to so if you get detained, they can wash their hands of you and say enjoy your stay.
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US government to ban citizens from travelling to North Korea.
- Thread starter Lightning Count
- Start date
That's been their position for a while actually. They've long had on the state department website a disclaimer with a note that says "call the Swiss if you get in trouble"
boredofcanada
Member
So wait what happens if you go illegally and the US finds out? Are you then stuck in NK?
boredofcanada
Member
I think it's the US outright forcing the two travel agencies that take Americans to cease and desist, which they agreed to.
Master Yoshi
Member
Not sure if it's been asked, but does this include Rodman?
Aces&Eights
Member
That's actually petty damn hilarious.
MikeHattsu
Member
Ain't it Sweden?
Fucking FINALLY
Stop defending the fact that you went to take the same pictures everyone else did.
Stop defending the fact that you went to take the same pictures everyone else did.
You mean Sweden?
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Isn't that because we use the Swedes as intermediary since there is no US embassy or consulate in NK.
Oh, you are correct! I haven't looked at the DOJ website in a bit.
But yeah, point stands. The US governments long standing policy is that they won't help you if you get in trouble there.
Alex_Mexico
Member
Wasn't he planning another visit?
A broken clock is right twice a day but that doesn't mean it is right for the right reasons.
Doctoglethorpe
Member
The one travel ban I am totally okay with.
soundscream
Member
So many levels to this.
I only feel slightly offended. I will eat my meatballs with a small scowl tonight.
I honestly believe that we are going to do some sort of military operation in NK within the next 2-3 years, and this is designed to get as many US citizens out as possible before we do the action. NK is getting more and more belgerant and I believe that US is going to try and take action before they actually have a nuclear warhead that can reach US soil.
Chittagong
Gold Member
I don't regret going, and I don't need to defend going to anyone. I enjoyed the trip, and would go again. Maybe not right now as the tensions are at their peak, but with a Finnish passport I am pretty safe. No regrets.
Considering I would probably go there if I could, I disagree with this. I need to do more research on how much funding foreign (and Western, specifically, just out of curiosity) tourism provides the regime, but I doubt it's the difference between sustaining it and making it fall. And how many times have we sanctioned North Korea, cut off key humanitarian efforts or exports, only to hurt its people while the regime continues merrily along? This isn't to say I disagree with those actions; only that the relationship between the flow of resources and the well-being of North Korea's citizens is complicated.
On the other hand, the tourism provides a tiny, very flawed, yet also unusual glimpse into an important country. It contributes, in a very small way, to whatever connection between North Korea and the rest of the world exists. I think it's fundamentally worthwhile to see places like North Korea for yourself, and unfortunately, I don't know that there's any other way aside from these tourism services.
As for the risk factor that you'll be held hostage... Again, I don't plan to go there any time soon, so I haven't reviewed my facts, but I don't believe it's particularly high. Of coure, it might be a good idea to wait for the geopolitical environment to calm down before you go.
Yeah, there's like, throngs of ordinary North Koreans visiting other countries. Especially the USA. Worst tourists evar.
I was about to post the same thing. Reminds me of my friend from former eastern Germany. He also wasn't allowed to travel freely.
Would it be alright if your home country simply forgot about you then if you go there and they decide to detain you? Or do you feel you have a right to be used as propaganda by the NK gov't?
Please tell me this is sarcastic.
And_Gignac
Member
Saudi Arabia ban incoming too!?
Chittagong
Gold Member
The "tourism funds the evil" argument just shows either how little people do research, or that they really believe that every little counts, and that out of principle it's bad.
In 2015, North Korea exported $2.83B worth of goods. In other words, the world bought stuff and put that much money to the coffers of the government.
In 2016, there were 4000-6000 western tourists in DPRK. Let's round up the trip price to $1,000 and assume the maximum amount of visitors. That's $6M to the coffers of the government annually.
So if the world would buy even just 10% less stuff from DPRK annually, that would be $238M a year, 40x more money away from the regime than stopping tourism altogether.
In 2015, North Korea exported $2.83B worth of goods. In other words, the world bought stuff and put that much money to the coffers of the government.
In 2016, there were 4000-6000 western tourists in DPRK. Let's round up the trip price to $1,000 and assume the maximum amount of visitors. That's $6M to the coffers of the government annually.
So if the world would buy even just 10% less stuff from DPRK annually, that would be $238M a year, 40x more money away from the regime than stopping tourism altogether.
Is there a reason your comparison has to be laughable dishonest?
The East German government restricted travel by forcefully stopping people from leaving the country and going to the West.
The US government doesn't give a shit if you leave the country. Or go to any country in the world, except for the totalitarian hermit state that the US has technically been at war with since 1950.
wesleyshark
Banned
Baffles me that we hadn't done this sooner.
Resident_UA
Member
I mean, how would this ban work? People go to China and cross into NK from there.
PlayALLtheGames
Banned
Yes, it is one thing and another. And?
The U.S. is spending a lot of time and money because dumb young people who think they're invincible go to North Korea and get arrested for some reason, bullshit or not. N. Korea can detain people for completely fabricated reasons and there's the small issue that their government threatens to nuke the U.S. on a weekly basis.
Well it says there one of the tour agencies in China said it'll stop taking Americans. Others likely will too as they're not trying to get into shit with the U.S. government.
Chittagong
Gold Member
Ironically, because they don't stamp your passport, the ban only works if DPRK enforces the ban for USA by refusing to issue visas for US tourists
Fox Mulder
Member
Drew on Giant Bomb went too and had stories of how fascinating it was.
It's all propaganda and you can still be snagged up as a spy and tortured.
Wuthering_Heights
Banned
That's too bad. I would love to visit one day.
This isn't one of those things which will lead the government from prohibiting you from going elsewhere down the line. This is necessary.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
"The government can't tell me where I can and can't go!" is such a weird stance to take on this issue.
No, the government cannot and will not be able to actually prevent you from going anywhere. If you want to go to North Korea so bad, you can go. Find a way.
What the US government doesn't have to do is help you get there, or bail you out once you get captured. And now they're officially saying: "Don't go, and if you do it anyway, that's your problem."
No, the government cannot and will not be able to actually prevent you from going anywhere. If you want to go to North Korea so bad, you can go. Find a way.
What the US government doesn't have to do is help you get there, or bail you out once you get captured. And now they're officially saying: "Don't go, and if you do it anyway, that's your problem."
I'm cool with people having to deal with consequences of their own actions.
How About No
Member
Fine. I guess.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
A former manager of mine traveled there. Twice.
It definitely made me respect him a whole hell of a lot less.
It definitely made me respect him a whole hell of a lot less.
Can't Stopman the Rodman
You have to talk to the Swiss. Switzerland is the proxy for the US with any NK stuff.
You have to talk to the Swiss. Switzerland is the proxy for the US with any NK stuff.
7DollarHagane
Banned
Yep. Private citizens traveling for no reason other than tourism should have been banned long ago. It's a dangerous and hostile place.
People should be free to go where they want but also you're infringing on other people's pursuit of happiness by potentially incurring significant cost to rescue your dumbass from the crazy nk government.
Alter_Fridge
Member
Which is likely not in our lifetimes
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
This is what rationalization looks like, people.
Mass Effect
Member
For the best, really.