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Valedictorian barred from his graduation due to having facial hair in Louisiana
- Thread starter Dalek
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CornBurrito
Member
I dunno if you ever went to a private school but tons of them have rules against beards. Sure it is a strange rule now that beards are coming back in style, but I can definitely understand the rule when so many dudes have gross unkempt beards. It is easier to put a blanket rule "no beards/facial hair" than to go to individuals and go "yeah your beard looks gross, you gotta make it look good or shave."
A Link to the Past
Banned
It is somewhat discriminatory, for certain. For instance, what about people whose beard grows in more quickly? Would that person have to then shave throughout the day?
Either way, this is an entirely arbitrary rule to have. People will say that the reason is people's beards becoming unruly or unseemly, but that's true of anything, allowed or not.
This is what I came to post, in part.
Either way, this is an entirely arbitrary rule to have. People will say that the reason is people's beards becoming unruly or unseemly, but that's true of anything, allowed or not.
This is what I came to post, in part.
Skellig Gra
Member
You aren't wrong but at the same time this is a very common rule to have for men along with no earrings. I experienced it myself.
MooMilk2929
Junior Member
If you don't link it or post a screengrab then this post is ineffective.
Seraph_Nicholas
Member
Yeah, I know. I should have grabbed it at the time. It was a post from a local in Facebook Trending of a few of their personal friends the year before. I'll keep looking, but no luck so far.
Report should have included some pertinent facts:
1. Was this 'no facial hair' policy clearly stated? Was he aware of the policy?
2. Were any other students similarly punished for having facial hair?
If the policy was clear, if he was aware of it, and if it punishment was uniformly distributed, I really don't see the issue. Past classes are a small indication of whether or not the policy was enforced then, but only goes toward if he believed he would be punished or not.
Finally, when he arrived in cap and gown and facial hair, did they just say get lost? Or did they tell him to go shave and he refused. If they said "Shave or do no participate" and he chose not to shave, that's really on him.
Furthermore, his family says he was the valedictorian. The school declined to comment on his academic standing. If he was, and they're trying not to say it, that's complete bullshit. But some confirmation would be nice.
1. Was this 'no facial hair' policy clearly stated? Was he aware of the policy?
2. Were any other students similarly punished for having facial hair?
If the policy was clear, if he was aware of it, and if it punishment was uniformly distributed, I really don't see the issue. Past classes are a small indication of whether or not the policy was enforced then, but only goes toward if he believed he would be punished or not.
Finally, when he arrived in cap and gown and facial hair, did they just say get lost? Or did they tell him to go shave and he refused. If they said "Shave or do no participate" and he chose not to shave, that's really on him.
Furthermore, his family says he was the valedictorian. The school declined to comment on his academic standing. If he was, and they're trying not to say it, that's complete bullshit. But some confirmation would be nice.
CornBurrito
Member
I dunno if you ever actually went to a school with a dress code, but usually the dress code is more than "no beards". Like, they explicitly state your uniform/clothing must be neat and tidy. So your example is kind of really bad.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Succeeding academically while black.
Ragnorok64
Member
Just so I'm clear, he was aware of the no beard policy ahead of time and chose not to shave, correct? If he was expected to give a speach of course they wouldn't let him up there in front of everyone. It'd be a slap in the face of everyone that did shave to follow the rule.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Yeah, we should just follow the rules, no matter how inane. It's what has gotten us this far with schools.
CornBurrito
Member
No beards isn't inane. Did like nobody in this thread ever go to a private school?
CornBurrito
Member
Since people seem to not understand why a "no facial hair" rule might be in place:
1. Not all beards look neat. A lot of guys do not put the effort into maintaining a well groomed beard.
2. Private schools as a rule require their students to look neat/proper. Complain about that all you want, but it does prepare children to deal with actual real life since you know, you also often have to not look like garbage at a workplace.
3. Combining 1 and 2, it is easier to have a blanket "no beards" rule than to call individual students out on "your beard looks like shit, either you need to groom it, or shave."
Yes, how inane. Very unreasonable.
1. Not all beards look neat. A lot of guys do not put the effort into maintaining a well groomed beard.
2. Private schools as a rule require their students to look neat/proper. Complain about that all you want, but it does prepare children to deal with actual real life since you know, you also often have to not look like garbage at a workplace.
3. Combining 1 and 2, it is easier to have a blanket "no beards" rule than to call individual students out on "your beard looks like shit, either you need to groom it, or shave."
Yes, how inane. Very unreasonable.
Amory
Member
if you're gonna stand up to something you think is wrong, more often than not you're going to deal with some shit for it too. that's life. he had plenty of chances to go shave like the 13 others who were going to be denied the chance to walk that day
he got a better story out of his HS graduation than I got. HS graduation was lame.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Not the student.
http://www.wdsu.com/news/local-news...m_campaign=WDSU News - wdsutv&linkId=13328134
This school system took 50 years to desegregate. They just completed it last year. Actually, I will correct that. They were inching closer to resolution last year. Their conflict resolution skills and facial hair standards are far behind.
It's a public school who hasn't heard of people from other countries. It would literally be illegal to enforce this against someone's religion. No beards is inane in 2016.
CornBurrito
Member
Well even public schools can have uniform rules.
1. I imagine exceptions are made for religious reasons. That's always been the case.
2. No beards is not inane. See above explanation. Or this post: http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=204451180&postcount=114
A Link to the Past
Banned
Not really. It still fails to demonstrate value beyond simply "I do not like it." A blanket ban is an easy decision, but not for people who need to shave halfway through the day in order to keep up with the ban.
Mixolydian
Member
This was the right decision. This valedictorian could've had nefarious intentions with that horribly unkempt facial hair of his. Who knows what he was hiding in there?
TheOfficeMut
Unconfirmed Member
Dehumanizing beard
CornBurrito
Member
Sure, there's no inherent value in looking neat/proper. What is there inherent value in? If you went to get pedantic about it.
Feel free to do interviews in track shorts and a wife-beater since clothing/appearance doesn't matter.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
I don't know of any job outside of the military or other hazardous work that requires a man to be clean shaven. Everything from finance to tech to the arts, even doctors and surgeons are able to have full beards. Not allowing them goes against the zeitgeist.
A Link to the Past
Banned
For it to not be arbitrary, you need to show that as a matter of fact, beards cannot be neat or proper. Trying to create the synthesis of "beards can be unkempt, therefore beards are unkempt" is a bad argument.
But it could just be a coincidence that this particular incidence was in fact not racially motivated in any way! We can't be sure!
And then it will happen again, and people will continue to say it's all just a coincidence and fail to recognize the clear underlying pattern. And even if there are the few occasional outliers where it really is all just an unfortunate coincidence, it doesn't change a general trend.
This willful ignorance seems to have had the side effect of stopping the right from doing anything to make their party palatable to the changing demographics, so I suppose if they'd like to keep pretending that the majority of people can't see the clear trends of what's going on and making the increasingly thin claim that it's all always just a coincidence, they can keep on digging that hole.
But it does because that was the school policy. Logical or not, if you break the rule you're risking it being a problem. If they were invoking some esoteric rule of the dress code to fuck with this guy then ok but they let the kids know it WAS going to be a problem.
At what point do you just say, "I'm gonna shave for the day"?
xDUMPWEEDx
Banned
This is hard to believe as real. It reads exactly like an onion article. Did WP get trolled?
I support schools having no facial hair policies if they want (the amount of horrible scraggly goatees among college freshmen is all the evidence I need), if they never made an issue out of it during the school year then they can get fucked for making an issue out of it at graduation.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
You can't discriminate against religion in this country. I know most people haven't met people from other countries but some religions prevent you from shaving. It's simple. Not this guy's excuse but a lawsuit pending. They don't have many people with this problem, or better yet, probably force people to adapt to their rules and shame them.
You can point to any post but if it doesn't consider the religious freedom of every american in a public school system, it's inane. Illegal. Wouldn't hold up in court. Depends on homogeneity to be a successful rule, which is a terrible standard.
Stop talking about private schools. They make their rules up out of thin air. A large number of them probably ban very reasonable activities just because. They are not a gold standard. Just a bunch of teachers who made up some rules they liked.
entremet
Member
He won't win.
SCOTUS gave schools broad powers in enforcing rules within their jurisdictions.
Saw this on the news yesterday and immediately read the article.
DUMBEST SHIT EVER. He looks fucking fine. I can understand the concern about facial hair becoming a distraction, but his facial hair is neat, clean, and well-managed. This is just a horrible, horrible decision by administrators.
DUMBEST SHIT EVER. He looks fucking fine. I can understand the concern about facial hair becoming a distraction, but his facial hair is neat, clean, and well-managed. This is just a horrible, horrible decision by administrators.
MiniBossBattle
Member
I had to shave when I graduated with honors in high school. I just wanted the paper and get out.
He has a clean/trimmed look. I looked like robin williams jumanji tier.
He has a clean/trimmed look. I looked like robin williams jumanji tier.
cr0w
Old Member
Ever heard of the New York Yankees?
If Louisiana is anything like Mississippi, where I went to high school, a no beard policy isn't unheard of. My high school didn't allow facial hair whatsoever except for mustaches. No exceptions.
adamsappel
Member
Why didn't you follow the goddamn rules in your high school?
Like you, I'm sure one day he'll think this wasn't a stand worth taking, but I'm fine with young people sticking up for what is important to them at the time. I don't think the policy is racist, though I think it's out-dated and don't understand why mustaches are allowed.
Doesnt surprise me in the least.
Every Louisiana school I went to and knew of had no facial hair policies and regulations on hair length and coloring. Public and private. At least around New Orleans and Baton Rouge.
This seems a bit different in that this particular school seemed to allow it and then arbitrarily banned it at this moment in time.
In my experience(and with a relative that served as one) the disciplinarians and principles are dicks. There is often some severe ego issues fueled by the power they yield.
With that said I'm not sure I would of made this my line in the sand moment. The rules are silly and clearly they were just changing the rules on a whim, likely for no real good reason, but I would of just did it and grown it back over the next week(s).
Every Louisiana school I went to and knew of had no facial hair policies and regulations on hair length and coloring. Public and private. At least around New Orleans and Baton Rouge.
This seems a bit different in that this particular school seemed to allow it and then arbitrarily banned it at this moment in time.
In my experience(and with a relative that served as one) the disciplinarians and principles are dicks. There is often some severe ego issues fueled by the power they yield.
With that said I'm not sure I would of made this my line in the sand moment. The rules are silly and clearly they were just changing the rules on a whim, likely for no real good reason, but I would of just did it and grown it back over the next week(s).
CornBurrito
Member
That might be why I said "I'm sure exceptions are made for religious reasons."
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
I don't believe they still have that policy. Also, it's illegal for employers to require men to be clean shaven without good reason (health and safety usually).
CornBurrito
Member
Oh cool I see we're just ignoring what I said in favor of maknig things up.
I never said ""beards can be unkempt, therefore beards are unkempt""
I said "beards can be unkempt, and schools find it easier to make a blanket ban on them rather than singling out individual students."
Kitsunebaby
Member
That rule can get fucked. Schools have no place telling students what to do with their hair. So long as a student is practicing good hygiene, their grooming preferences are nobody's business but their own.
Nah, they said they made sure people knew before graduation and it appeared to me that they took this dude aside and told him specifically. Seems like they just normally let it slide but wanted to make sure the kids were clean shaven on graduation day at least.
There are. We had a few Muslim girls in our school and they were given exceptions to wear their religious wear. Pretty sure all the males still shaved though. Almost certain of that.
CornBurrito
Member
At least at my school, the rule was clean shaven. But there were religious Jewish students who did not shave their beards during certain months because of a religious holiday.
Just re-read what I thought said that facial hair was allowed if properly groomed. You are correct. Parish rules say beards aren't allowed.
Seems open and shut in that case.
Rules are certainly stupid but they are what they are. Good luck wasting outrage calories on raging at this, Louisiana prides itself on backwards shit like this.
umop_3pisdn
Member
Not to mention that the only thing you're learning in a graduation ceremony is how boring pomp and circumstance is.
TimeEffect
Member
Man. Im always conscious of my facial hair but I look lame without one
This just reinforces the perception
This just reinforces the perception
A Link to the Past
Banned
I also never said anything about wife beaters or job interviews. Please don't complain about people making things up while you actively make things up yourself. Most places, as long as you keep your beard clean and neat, going into an interview won't ruin the deal. In fact, I would just as well argue that arbitrarily saying "no beards" prevents people whose beards grow in quickly better understand how to maintain facial hair properly in their adult life.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
The absurdity of that quote from the American Mustache Institute is off the charts.
I could see if it was for religious or cultural reasons (ie, schools that don't allow people of color to wear their hair naturally), but if it's a universal policy that's part of the dress code, and you knew all year, why would you call their bluff?
I could see if it was for religious or cultural reasons (ie, schools that don't allow people of color to wear their hair naturally), but if it's a universal policy that's part of the dress code, and you knew all year, why would you call their bluff?
......The purchase wasn't just for land in Louisiana.
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