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[DunDunDunpachi]

Interesting article from Vice/Waypoint, and a decent peek into the shmup genre. I was exposed to this content through a labyrinthine trail of forum posts, pdf guides, obscure Discord servers, SuperPlay DVDs imported from Japan, and YouTube videos. For an all-in-one article, this does a remarkable job of touching on many of the unseen details of the shmup community that most gamers are never exposed to.

Please give the article a read if you've ever been curious about bullet-hell shmups.

"Shoot-em-ups" or "shmups" are a classic genre of video game, but also, these days, one of the least well-understood and appreciated. Their age and simplicity are easy to confuse with crudeness, and even though almost every video game player has encountered one of these games, few players even understand how they are meant to function or what they truly demand of skilled practitioners. ​

​

Dr. Mark R Johnson has firsthand experience of this, having collected four world records in the genre to date, in addition to his academic work as a games scholar studying competitive gaming. Alexandra Orlando is a games scholar and critic, whose writing focuses on live streaming and eSports and draws on her experiences in the industry as a player, team manager and tournament organizer. ​

​

Together, they'll explore this rarely-seen world of competitive shmups, and shed some light on the place of these games in contemporary gaming culture by drawing on their experiences and insights as both researchers and active members of the competitive gaming and eSports communities.​

I love shmups. The genre doesn't receive much attention from game journalists, largely because the genre is far too removed and obscure nowadays. It is mainly played by lonely people with too much time on their hands and weebs. So, not only is it nice to see it receive attention, but it is especially nice when a thorough article appears on a major website.

Oh, and please drop a farthing into the Shmup OT by paying it a visit.

 

[NikuNashi]

Love shmups myself but am ass at them. I'm lucky as living in Tokyo their are a few retro game centers with tons of old school bullet hell games. Always guys sitting there playing through knowing every enemy wave from start to finish, can't help but admire those guys.

 

[kiiltz]

Are there Shmups who cleared Automata's end credits without help?

I personally can't handle the amount of activity on screen in them but huge respect to those that are capable of it.

 

[dottme]

For me, Shmups has the same issue than fighting games. They focused so much on their hardcore fans that any other more relax player is pushed away.
For fighting games, except smash, it’s all focused on esport and crazy combination of button to start to do something.
For shmups, it’s nearly only bullet hell which is too confusing for a casual player.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

lol, competitive shmups? The fuck?

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

I personally can't handle the amount of activity on screen in them but huge respect to those that are capable of it.

The amount of activity is intimidating, but it's a misdirection. Navigating those patterns is far more manageable than people assume. At any given time, your ship is only in danger of being hit by a small number of the total bullets on screen. The genre is more about keeping your eyes where they need to be (and purposely ignoring bullets that have no chance of hitting you), finding safe spots to place your ship, and flowing with bullets.

The extra bullets are a distraction to impress the casual onlookers. In the same way that a casual fighting game player might button-mash and get angry when they don't win, a casual shmup player darts their ship and their eyes around the screen and gets distracted by the action.

lol, competitive shmups? The fuck?

You weren't aware that shmups had hi-scores? That's all this is, just like in the old days. Players try to get the highest score possible, ideally by beating the game in one credit or even no-missing the game. Some shmups have chaining systems or special quirks so that a player can plan a route and get an even higher score. The only difference between shmups in the 80s and today is the internet allows for the worldwide community to swap scores easily, so the level of competition is much higher.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Yeah, just sounds too esports buzzword-y.

 

[kiiltz]

The amount of activity is intimidating, but it's a misdirection. Navigating those patterns is far more manageable than people assume. At any given time, your ship is only in danger of being hit by a small number of the total bullets on screen. The genre is more about keeping your eyes where they need to be (and purposely ignoring bullets that have no chance of hitting you), finding safe spots to place your ship, and flowing with bullets.

Oh yeah, definitely. I was more or less saying that I'm incapable of not being misdirected cos I'm a big dumb dumb.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Yeah, just sounds too esports buzzword-y.

True, I've never heard of it described as "the world of competitive bullet hells".

Oh yeah, definitely. I was more or less saying that I'm incapable of not being misdirected cos I'm a big dumb dumb.

lol believe in yourself.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

For me, Shmups has the same issue than fighting games. They focused so much on their hardcore fans that any other more relax player is pushed away.
For fighting games, except smash, it’s all focused on esport and crazy combination of button to start to do something.
For shmups, it’s nearly only bullet hell which is too confusing for a casual player.

But that is simply not true. There exist many SHMUPSs where you can toggle the difficulty e.g. R-Type Dimensions EX on the Switch allows you to select 'infinite continues' mode - so matter how bad you do you will see the end. Games like Skyforce Reloaded literally take you from 0 to 100 proficiency in SHMUPs in a single game.

Compared to fighting games shmups are way less demanding: A. You mostly compete against yourself B. Controls are incredibly easy - don't get hit, shoot everything that moves and is not you.

I think important thing to remember is: you don't need to dominate the leaderboard. Just finishing the game with all the continues given to you should be enough for 99.9% of players. Then you can up it to 1CC - clear without any continues. Only then if you want you can try to compete for high score (which requires mostly absurd amount of memorization).

 

[Hawks Eclipse]

I love shmups. The genre doesn't receive much attention from game journalists, largely because the genre is far too removed and obscure nowadays. It is mainly played by lonely people with too much time on their hands and weebs.

Just came across this and read the article.

Speedruns aren't necessarily interesting to watch repeatedly, but they often entail interesting glitches or some ingenious tactic which the speedrunner can explain to the appreciation of an audience.

High scoring in a shmup is probably going to be more about explaining the scoring system/s and how they are milking it for all its worth.

Personally, I think the original double play video of Ikaruga is the most interesting to watch, because the feat he's accomplishing is easy to fathom (it's also helped immensely by showing his hands on the controls) and the entire thing looks beautiful in motion.

Lastly, I have a question: what are the mechanically interesting danmakus in your opinion?

P.S. You ain't weeb till you preach touhou everywhere, haha.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Just came across this and read the article.

Speedruns aren't necessarily interesting to watch repeatedly, but they often entail interesting glitches or some ingenious tactic which the speedrunner can explain to the appreciation of an audience.

High scoring in a shmup is probably going to be more about explaining the scoring system/s and how they are milking it for all its worth.

Personally, I think the original double play video of Ikaruga is the most interesting to watch, because the feat he's accomplishing is easy to fathom (it's also helped immensely by showing his hands on the controls) and the entire thing looks beautiful in motion.

Lastly, I have a question: what are the mechanically interesting danmakus in your opinion?

P.S. You ain't weeb till you preach touhou everywhere, haha.

Mechanically interesting? Hard to say but I will try to give an honest answer. I have played a lot but there are so many "must plays" that I still haven't. And I'm not much of a shmup tourist, either. The genre is quite large. My territory is Taito stuff, CAVE stuff, Technosoft, classic Konami (Gradius, Salamander, Parodius, Twinbee, etc), Psikyo stuff, Raizing, Compile, etc. but there are many Touhou games I've never touched, many indie and 68x shmups I've never touched. For instance, I've only played the Hudsonsoft and other TG16 shmups in passing. I'm terrible at both Ikaruga and Radiant silvergun. I don't consider myself well-versed in shmups, but with that groveling out of the way.

The most interesting danmaku is Dodonpachi Daioujou (DOJ). I feel like I have to give that answer because, quite simply, I have invested a solid 2000 more hours into that one shmup compared to any other shmup in my collection. So... clearly I find it most interesting. I am not exaggerating the number of hours, either. I've played it on a weekly if not daily basis since 2017 (approaching 4 years), and I have a dedicated PS2 + tate crt in my basement for it. I like the simple focus on chaining and using hypers to make chaining easier. There's not much in the way of bullet cancels (though a hyper does it) nor slowing down time or reflecting bullets.

Scoring mechanics are pretty bare bones and focused: You keep your chain up to increase the amount of hyper-gauge you gain. Then you grab a hyper and you keep chaining until you reach a particular sweet spot in the stage. Activate hyper. Everything speeds up, but number of hits goes up too, increasing your combo further, and chain gauge depletes slower, making it easier to chain (but harder to dodge the faster bullets). Try to keep the chain going after the hyper drops, and then you'll gain even more hypers, then you hyper again, repeating the process. Every stage can be "full chained", so I would liken it to performing SSS rank on a rhythm game or doing a full-level trick in OlliOlli. The margin for error is very thin. I am playing White Label which has more difficult chaining than Black Label, but both games are known for very low margins for keeping your chain going. The challenge of keeping the chain going is what makes it so fun, in my opinion.

Some other really interesting danmakus would be Espgaluda 1 and 2 (slowdown + cancel mechanics, perfected) and it's cousin ESP Rade, Crimzon Clover (a hypersexual golden shower of medals), Psyvariar 1 and 2 (grazing bullets is the "expert" way of playing the game), Ketsui (another "pure" danmaku similar to DOJ, with fewer frills and more focused gameplay), Castle Shikigami 2 (amazing range of character types, plus a cancel/grazing system that's fun), and Rolling Gunner (also a golden shower of medals).

Whew. Hope that rant wasn't a chore to get through.

 

[dottme]

But that is simply not true. There exist many SHMUPSs where you can toggle the difficulty e.g. R-Type Dimensions EX on the Switch allows you to select 'infinite continues' mode - so matter how bad you do you will see the end. Games like Skyforce Reloaded literally take you from 0 to 100 proficiency in SHMUPs in a single game.

Compared to fighting games shmups are way less demanding: A. You mostly compete against yourself B. Controls are incredibly easy - don't get hit, shoot everything that moves and is not you.

I think important thing to remember is: you don't need to dominate the leaderboard. Just finishing the game with all the continues given to you should be enough for 99.9% of players. Then you can up it to 1CC - clear without any continues. Only then if you want you can try to compete for high score (which requires mostly absurd amount of memorization).

I’ve never been an expert, but older shmups, I was able to manage it and go ok.
but now, when I look at YouTube video, I can’t even see the path to go through the bullet hell. The path is so narrow now.

 

[Hawks Eclipse]

Mechanically interesting? Hard to say but I will try to give an honest answer. I have played a lot but there are so many "must plays" that I still haven't. And I'm not much of a shmup tourist, either. The genre is quite large. My territory is Taito stuff, CAVE stuff, Technosoft, classic Konami (Gradius, Salamander, Parodius, Twinbee, etc), Psikyo stuff, Raizing, Compile, etc. but there are many Touhou games I've never touched, many indie and 68x shmups I've never touched. For instance, I've only played the Hudsonsoft and other TG16 shmups in passing. I'm terrible at both Ikaruga and Radiant silvergun. I don't consider myself well-versed in shmups, but with that groveling out of the way.

The most interesting danmaku is Dodonpachi Daioujou (DOJ). I feel like I have to give that answer because, quite simply, I have invested a solid 2000 more hours into that one shmup compared to any other shmup in my collection. So... clearly I find it most interesting. I am not exaggerating the number of hours, either. I've played it on a weekly if not daily basis since 2017 (approaching 4 years), and I have a dedicated PS2 + tate crt in my basement for it. I like the simple focus on chaining and using hypers to make chaining easier. There's not much in the way of bullet cancels (though a hyper does it) nor slowing down time or reflecting bullets.

Scoring mechanics are pretty bare bones and focused: You keep your chain up to increase the amount of hyper-gauge you gain. Then you grab a hyper and you keep chaining until you reach a particular sweet spot in the stage. Activate hyper. Everything speeds up, but number of hits goes up too, increasing your combo further, and chain gauge depletes slower, making it easier to chain (but harder to dodge the faster bullets). Try to keep the chain going after the hyper drops, and then you'll gain even more hypers, then you hyper again, repeating the process. Every stage can be "full chained", so I would liken it to performing SSS rank on a rhythm game or doing a full-level trick in OlliOlli. The margin for error is very thin. I am playing White Label which has more difficult chaining than Black Label, but both games are known for very low margins for keeping your chain going. The challenge of keeping the chain going is what makes it so fun, in my opinion.

Some other really interesting danmakus would be Espgaluda 1 and 2 (slowdown + cancel mechanics, perfected) and it's cousin ESP Rade, Crimzon Clover (a hypersexual golden shower of medals), Psyvariar 1 and 2 (grazing bullets is the "expert" way of playing the game), Ketsui (another "pure" danmaku similar to DOJ, with fewer frills and more focused gameplay), Castle Shikigami 2 (amazing range of character types, plus a cancel/grazing system that's fun), and Rolling Gunner (also a golden shower of medals).

Whew. Hope that rant wasn't a chore to get through.

Damn dude, don't deliver so quickly

I'll post my proper reply some time later when I've digested it all, just wanted to give you a heads up first, cheers and thanks!

 

[sn0man]

The amount of activity is intimidating, but it's a misdirection. Navigating those patterns is far more manageable than people assume. At any given time, your ship is only in danger of being hit by a small number of the total bullets on screen. The genre is more about keeping your eyes where they need to be (and purposely ignoring bullets that have no chance of hitting you), finding safe spots to place your ship, and flowing with bullets.

The extra bullets are a distraction to impress the casual onlookers. In the same way that a casual fighting game player might button-mash and get angry when they don't win, a casual shmup player darts their ship and their eyes around the screen and gets distracted by the action.


You weren't aware that shmups had hi-scores? That's all this is, just like in the old days. Players try to get the highest score possible, ideally by beating the game in one credit or even no-missing the game. Some shmups have chaining systems or special quirks so that a player can plan a route and get an even higher score. The only difference between shmups in the 80s and today is the internet allows for the worldwide community to swap scores easily, so the level of competition is much higher.

I misunderstood it as well. I thought a new genre of VS shmups was becoming a thing. I was excited because it sounded like a fun mechanic if executed well where a player could compete with friends.

 

[jufonuk]

Love shoot em ups but I am not the best at them. But I love them. Pew pew pew pew

 

[Hawks Eclipse]

Mechanically interesting? Hard to say but I will try to give an honest answer. I have played a lot but there are so many "must plays" that I still haven't. And I'm not much of a shmup tourist, either. The genre is quite large. My territory is Taito stuff, CAVE stuff, Technosoft, classic Konami (Gradius, Salamander, Parodius, Twinbee, etc), Psikyo stuff, Raizing, Compile, etc. but there are many Touhou games I've never touched, many indie and 68x shmups I've never touched. For instance, I've only played the Hudsonsoft and other TG16 shmups in passing. I'm terrible at both Ikaruga and Radiant silvergun. I don't consider myself well-versed in shmups, but with that groveling out of the way.

The most interesting danmaku is Dodonpachi Daioujou (DOJ). I feel like I have to give that answer because, quite simply, I have invested a solid 2000 more hours into that one shmup compared to any other shmup in my collection. So... clearly I find it most interesting. I am not exaggerating the number of hours, either. I've played it on a weekly if not daily basis since 2017 (approaching 4 years), and I have a dedicated PS2 + tate crt in my basement for it. I like the simple focus on chaining and using hypers to make chaining easier. There's not much in the way of bullet cancels (though a hyper does it) nor slowing down time or reflecting bullets.

Scoring mechanics are pretty bare bones and focused: You keep your chain up to increase the amount of hyper-gauge you gain. Then you grab a hyper and you keep chaining until you reach a particular sweet spot in the stage. Activate hyper. Everything speeds up, but number of hits goes up too, increasing your combo further, and chain gauge depletes slower, making it easier to chain (but harder to dodge the faster bullets). Try to keep the chain going after the hyper drops, and then you'll gain even more hypers, then you hyper again, repeating the process. Every stage can be "full chained", so I would liken it to performing SSS rank on a rhythm game or doing a full-level trick in OlliOlli. The margin for error is very thin. I am playing White Label which has more difficult chaining than Black Label, but both games are known for very low margins for keeping your chain going. The challenge of keeping the chain going is what makes it so fun, in my opinion.

Some other really interesting danmakus would be Espgaluda 1 and 2 (slowdown + cancel mechanics, perfected) and it's cousin ESP Rade, Crimzon Clover (a hypersexual golden shower of medals), Psyvariar 1 and 2 (grazing bullets is the "expert" way of playing the game), Ketsui (another "pure" danmaku similar to DOJ, with fewer frills and more focused gameplay), Castle Shikigami 2 (amazing range of character types, plus a cancel/grazing system that's fun), and Rolling Gunner (also a golden shower of medals).

Whew. Hope that rant wasn't a chore to get through.

Okay I guess my eyes were initially intimidated by the texthell but that was a good read!

You definitely delivered and made a good case for DOJ and while I haven't played any of the danmakus (backlog of shame, ugh) anywhere close to how they were designed, I feel like I understand more of where the mentally stimulating parts of the game lie.

In a way, I think it's a blessing for every gamer to be able to find that one game they keep revisiting of their own volition, within the genre they enjoy. But damn, now that I fathom it properly, 2000hrs in a shmup is serious stuff (due to the average length of a run)

Quick tangent: Did you play/enjoy Dragon Blaze by Psikyo?

There's one other thing I want to ask in relation to your DOJ writeup. You mentioned you "like the simple focus on chaining and using hypers to make chaining easier". Would it be correct for me to say you like the elegance of the system?

Cause personally, I have a soft spot for such things. Much as I sometimes enjoy watching impressive, complicated shit happen, I also like the simpler, more elegant stuff. There's something that feels good to me about how a lot of the extraneous stuff is shaved away and I'm left with a satisfying core to play with.

Lastly, I don't get how that was a rant?! Once again, thanks a lot for your answer, I'm glad I asked.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

The amount of activity is intimidating, but it's a misdirection. Navigating those patterns is far more manageable than people assume. At any given time, your ship is only in danger of being hit by a small number of the total bullets on screen. The genre is more about keeping your eyes where they need to be (and purposely ignoring bullets that have no chance of hitting you), finding safe spots to place your ship, and flowing with bullets.

The extra bullets are a distraction to impress the casual onlookers. In the same way that a casual fighting game player might button-mash and get angry when they don't win, a casual shmup player darts their ship and their eyes around the screen and gets distracted by the action.

This is what the guy in the article mentions, you look slightly ahead of your ship to see a pattern and a way out. It’s kinda like a puzzle game.

 

[Hawks Eclipse]

I misunderstood it as well. I thought a new genre of VS shmups was becoming a thing. I was excited because it sounded like a fun mechanic if executed well where a player could compete with friends.

I haven't checked, but I think Senko no Ronde sort of fits the Vs Shmup bill.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

I’ve never been an expert, but older shmups, I was able to manage it and go ok.
but now, when I look at YouTube video, I can’t even see the path to go through the bullet hell. The path is so narrow now.

Bullet hells reward economy of movement. This is where the whole "tap dodging" thing comes in. Don't move if you don't have to. It is a misunderstanding that you are navigating a path through the bullets, expertly dodging every single bullet and carving your way through. That's wrong. By all your might, you are trying to AVOID live-dodging bullets in that way. Sometimes you have to make cuts across bullet patterns, but that always comes with a risk.

Instead, you should try to remain as stationary as possible, allowing the bullets to wash over you, moving a bit here and there to adjust your path.

The vertical nature (most danmakus are tate/vertical) gives your eyes plenty of time to see the incoming bullet and calculate the trajectory, even if it's mostly subconscious. Often you will "crash" into a bullet moreso than getting hit by a bullet.

I misunderstood it as well. I thought a new genre of VS shmups was becoming a thing. I was excited because it sounded like a fun mechanic if executed well where a player could compete with friends.

There was a recent Versus competition called Shmup Kumite that dabbled in the idea of Versus shmups. The community is trying various things to see what sticks.

Announcing the 1st Ever Arcade Shmup 1cc Kumite! – The Electric Underground

This is what the guy in the article mentions, you look slightly ahead of your ship to see a pattern and a way out. It’s kinda like a puzzle game.

Yep, I previously fell in love with Vs puzzle games like Magical Drop 3, Puyo Puyo, Tetris Attack, Landmaker, etc etc as well as rhythm games like Dance Dance Revolution. "Shoot em ups" are better described as "Dodge Em Ups", and they play very similarly -- mechanically -- to a rhythm game or puzzle game. I think there's a lot of crossover between the genres.

Hawks Eclipse I will answer your more recent post separately, but this multi-quote is getting lengthy as it is. One sec.

 

[Hawks Eclipse]

I will answer your more recent post separately, but this multi-quote is getting lengthy as it is.

Don't sweat it. I'll be logging out soon because I need to put a manual buffer between replies, lol.

And good luck with your texthell

 

[Cyberpunkd]

DunDunDunpachi getting back to SHMUPs, ordered Flip Grip and bought Sky Force Reloaded for some non-TATE gameplay. Any recommendations you have apart from that?

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Okay I guess my eyes were initially intimidated by the texthell but that was a good read!

You definitely delivered and made a good case for DOJ and while I haven't played any of the danmakus (backlog of shame, ugh) anywhere close to how they were designed, I feel like I understand more of where the mentally stimulating parts of the game lie.

In a way, I think it's a blessing for every gamer to be able to find that one game they keep revisiting of their own volition, within the genre they enjoy. But damn, now that I fathom it properly, 2000hrs in a shmup is serious stuff (due to the average length of a run)

it's probably more like 2500 hours in total, maybe 3000. The total hours don't matter as much, it's the consistency. Some days I might boot it up and only play for 20 minutes. Other days I might do that eight times during the day, racking up 2+ hours in total. Other days I might sit down and play for a full hour or two at a time, but that was rarer. The secret is the long-term consistency. It's easy to sneak in 10 minutes here and there, and if you do that every single day your skills will skyrocket forward. This is generally true for most arcade / twitchy / memorization sort of videogames.

Quick tangent: Did you play/enjoy Dragon Blaze by Psikyo?

probably their best shmup IMO. My favorite character is Ian, the skeleton-dragon rider. He has a forward-facing shot and the fastest speed. spending out your dragon like the R-Type force pod is a fantastic gameplay mechanic and I wish more shmups did it. Plus the graphics look great and the setting is fairly unique among shmups. The other Psikyo shmup that comes close to Dragon Blaze IMO would be Strikers 1999.

There's one other thing I want to ask in relation to your DOJ writeup. You mentioned you "like the simple focus on chaining and using hypers to make chaining easier". Would it be correct for me to say you like the elegance of the system?

Cause personally, I have a soft spot for such things. Much as I sometimes enjoy watching impressive, complicated shit happen, I also like the simpler, more elegant stuff. There's something that feels good to me about how a lot of the extraneous stuff is shaved away and I'm left with a satisfying core to play with.

Lastly, I don't get how that was a rant?! Once again, thanks a lot for your answer, I'm glad I asked.

Yeah it's a simple but multilayered game.

On the basic level, you play to survive to the end, using bombs and the occasional hyper as you get them to stay alive. If you want to score better and get more hypers, you then begin learning to chain better, understanding how to position your ship and manipulate enemies. But by using hypers, you're driving up the rank, making everything harder, but also giving you a higher score. After this point you're only bombing as a last resort for the sake of maintaining your Bomb bonus multiplier (another score boost that you want to keep going if possible) and trying to chain the full level.

And of course, even your full-level chain could be optimized, resulting in more hyper gauge. All the while, you're trying to time out when you get a Hyper so that you can use it in your chain without breaking your chain. Killing enemies too quickly, after all, will leave a lull and you will drop your chain. Bombing is off the table at this point, since you need that score multiplier active. At the highest levels of play, you're no-missing and no-bombing until you reach the final boss, which then allows you to begin on the second loop.

second loop is even harder. Same stages, but Ghosts 'n Goblins "hahaha Satan sends you back to the beginning" increase in difficulty. All bullets are faster. All bullet patterns have been upgraded (read: denser). But it's easier to chain and gain hyper meter, so for the score junkies the score ceiling is even higher in the second loop.

Dunno if that would be considered elegant but hopefully that gives you a more specific answer. DOJ is also considered one of the hardest shmups to master (though it's all relative) so if you have a desire to sink time into a game with a lofty skill ceiling that will still be there, far above your head, even after years of patient play and practice, DOJ is hard to top. But it's also considered one of the hardest shmups to master because of its brutal simplicity. You will master the mechanics or you won't score better, its that simple.

DunDunDunpachi getting back to SHMUPs, ordered Flip Grip and bought Sky Force Reloaded for some non-TATE gameplay. Any recommendations you have apart from that?

ESP Rade and Danmaku 3 are on Switch and pair nicely with that flip grip. The Namco Collection includes Galaga 88 which is worth the price of admission IMO. There are a number of other classic Hamster Arcade Archive ports of shmups on the eshop. Devil Engine, Black Bird, Rolling Gunner, the Psykio collections, and Shikhondo Soul Eater are some others I have in my Switch collection.

 

[x@3f*oo_e!]

few players even understand how they are meant to function

What does this mean ?

 

[The Pleasure]

P.S. You ain't weeb till you preach touhou everywhere, haha.

Damn right, I"m a TOE HOE

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

What does this mean ?

Can't say for sure what the article's author meant. Maybe it's because the danmaku scoring systems have a lot of special rules and tricks that are 1) not obvious unless you know what you are looking at and 2) never properly explained in a tutorial or cutscene (in most shmups). Sadly it is much like how fighting games are "too dense" to a completely uninitiated player. They just see button mashing and combos and it's all too far above their head.

So you have a game with a high skill ceiling but the player has to figure out how half the tools work through trial-and-error. It's not always enjoyable and many new players don't have the patience.

I think one of the reasons why the genre is (slowly) coming back into popularity and awareness is because the internet allows the complete newcomer to watch top-level play and learn from the best players. This used to be limited to either being in the same arcade as the top shmup players or watching a superplay VHS / DVD, and these often had to be imported from Japan. Now I can go to YouTube and watch the current world record plays myself, imitating techniques that I see.

 

[The Pleasure]

Can't say for sure what the article's author meant. Maybe it's because the danmaku scoring systems .

Isn't a Danmaku one of those Japanese Waifu pillows that smash players pile on?

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Isn't a Danmaku one of those Japanese Waifu pillows that smash players pile on?

You'd have to ask Ionian they are the expert

Meta GAF |ON| Gaf on Gaf

What's good today gaf? I had a nice workout this morning. You? I learned a new word today and used it twice already: pillow fucker! Oh and there's even a gif for that. Awesome, eh?

www.neogaf.com

 

[The Pleasure]

You'd have to ask Ionian they are the expert

Meta GAF |ON| Gaf on Gaf

What's good today gaf? I had a nice workout this morning. You? I learned a new word today and used it twice already: pillow fucker! Oh and there's even a gif for that. Awesome, eh?

www.neogaf.com

Satisfied Danmaku customer

 

[Ionian]

You'd have to ask Ionian they are the expert

Meta GAF |ON| Gaf on Gaf

What's good today gaf? I had a nice workout this morning. You? I learned a new word today and used it twice already: pillow fucker! Oh and there's even a gif for that. Awesome, eh?

www.neogaf.com

Listen just because I draw faces on my pillow, it doesn't mean I'm romantically involved.

(I was joking anyway for anyone who missed it, sometimes you need to point out the obvious)

 

[x@3f*oo_e!]

Can't say for sure what the article's author meant. Maybe it's because the danmaku scoring systems have a lot of special rules and tricks that are 1) not obvious unless you know what you are looking at and 2) never properly explained in a tutorial or cutscene (in most shmups). Sadly it is much like how fighting games are "too dense" to a completely uninitiated player. They just see button mashing and combos and it's all too far above their head.

So you have a game with a high skill ceiling but the player has to figure out how half the tools work through trial-and-error. It's not always enjoyable and many new players don't have the patience.

I think one of the reasons why the genre is (slowly) coming back into popularity and awareness is because the internet allows the complete newcomer to watch top-level play and learn from the best players. This used to be limited to either being in the same arcade as the top shmup players or watching a superplay VHS / DVD, and these often had to be imported from Japan. Now I can go to YouTube and watch the current world record plays myself, imitating techniques that I see.

(googles "danmaku scoring") ok - the scoring system then - that makes sense of that's what they meant.

That's the sort of thing I would enjoy, but my tiny monkey brain just can't handle bullet hell.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Got Ikaruga...for the second time (the first was for X360, account lost like tears in the rain).

Related thought: It's such a shame that like Gacha, SHMUPs have incredible art that is almost not used at all during the course of the gameplay.

 

[Solarstrike]

lol, competitive shmups? The fuck?

Yeah, maybe the winner isn't decided by score but instead, the amount of quarters the challenger uses to beat the game

 

[D.Final]

Yeah, maybe the winner isn't decided by score but instead, the amount of quarters the challenger uses to beat the game

Welp

 

[Icymanipulator]

Just finished reading the article. Excellent and worth your time if you have even a passing interest in the subject.

 

[Hawks Eclipse]

The secret is the long-term consistency. It's easy to sneak in 10 minutes here and there, and if you do that every single day your skills will skyrocket forward. This is generally true for most arcade / twitchy / memorization sort of videogames.

, but it's fantastic advice. Seriously, it almost seems too obvious and yet I definitely needed to read it. Thanks a lot and maybe 2-3000hrs after I've found the discipline, I'll be with you at the altar of CAVE (is CAVEmen a thing? )

spending out your dragon like the R-Type force pod is a fantastic gameplay mechanic and I wish more shmups did it

In all honesty, my earlier question asking for your fave mechanics in shmups had something like this in mind; I don't mean Dragon Blaze in particular, but having some other action you can perform that isn't bullet-cancelling or grazing, which seem to be byproducts of bullet hell.

Dunno if that would be considered elegant but hopefully that gives you a more specific answer.

I can't say for sure without actually sinking time into it, but the additional details you've described don't hurt its case. It seems to be an interesting juggling act for score-milking. Did the later Dodonpachi games get more complicated compared to DOJ?

Anyway, thank you very much, once again. I'll have to do some more research on my own but my interest is definitely piqued.

 

[Hawks Eclipse]

(googles "danmaku scoring") ok - the scoring system then - that makes sense of that's what they meant.

That's the sort of thing I would enjoy, but my tiny monkey brain just can't handle bullet hell.

Yup, it seems you have found the answer and DunDunDunpachi gave you a pretty good one too.

The article itself alludes to it later on:

As simple as the core mechanic is (don't get hit), the scoring systems are famously byzantine, and can entail killing combos of enemies, certain colors of enemies, collecting drops from enemies, killing enemies within short periods of time, "grazing" bullets, killing enemies up close, using numerous weapons or modes of fire, or some exponentially more complicated combination of the above.

 

[Dr.D00p]

Just curious but of all the bullet hell shooters, which one is considered to be the ultimate challenge by the Pros?