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Winter 2012 Anime Thread 2.22: You Can (Not) Outpost Cajunator
- Thread starter Haly
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Yeah, YYH is $25-30 for 28 episodes too. Soul Eater and YYH are both region AB, so Jex can import them!
Wait, the SnO gif was posted because of SnO right?
I like just woke up recently, so I may have misunderstood something.
I usually just lurk in the anime thread, mostly because I can't catch up with episodes each week unlike you guys. It amazes me that you all can watch so many animes every season, while my backlog is so huge accumulating from past seasons. I wish I can discuss new episodes with you guys, but I'm always behind in every show.
I don't have much room for more anime, so I'd like to know if there's something I really have to watch this season.
Recently I've been watching:
Another (behind 4 eps)
Danshi Koukousei no Nichijou (behind 1 ep)
Black Rock Shooter (behind 3 eps)
I just picked up Rinne No Lagrange yesterday and it's pretty good after 4 episodes.
I don't have much room for more anime, so I'd like to know if there's something I really have to watch this season.
Recently I've been watching:
Another (behind 4 eps)
Danshi Koukousei no Nichijou (behind 1 ep)
Black Rock Shooter (behind 3 eps)
I just picked up Rinne No Lagrange yesterday and it's pretty good after 4 episodes.
Just be careful with Soul Eater, I think that one of the printings was accidentally region-locked.
You're watching the two that I'd consider the best of the season (Danshi Koukousei and Lagrange). I'd probably also recommend Bodacious Space Pirates/Mouretsu Pirates even though it has an abysmal start; it's not must-watch but it becomes enjoyable.
You are missing Natsume but that will require a lot of catching up if you never watched the first 3 seasons.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Okay, now Im home so Im so Im going to revisit that topic about the writing in OreImo. I wouldnt necessarily say that OreImo is badly written (though it does have some poorly thought out ideas that I will expound on later), but rather that as I mentioned before, there isnt much of a plot. I find that in my experience talking to other people in person and online about these things, most Americans want a show to have a driving plot, even if it only for an episode and a failure to have this is considered bad writing. This isnt always the case though, as there are two types of narrative based on whats driving it:
Theres Plot-Driven narrative, and Character-Driven narrative.
In a Plot-Driven narrative, the plot is already in motion and the story is about the characters reacting, responding, interacting, and/or intervening with/to said plot. For example, in the beginning of the original Star Wars, the fight between the Empire and the Rebellion is already in motion in the first scene, and the story is about Luke joining with the Rebels and playing his central role in determining the outcome of the story. Thereby, you could say Star Wars is a Plot-Driven narrative.
OreImos narrative, by contrast, is entirely Character-Driven. Without the characters very specifically doing a certain something(s), nothing would happen and there would be no narrative whatsoever. The story is only set in motion when Kyousuke bumps into Kirino causing her to drop an Anime DVD case (hiding an eroge), leading to Kyousuke discovering Kirinos secret, and the rest of the narrative is driven by the actions of these siblings.
The reason for this is because OreImo isnt actually about the story. The minimal story presented here is solely for the purpose of exploring the characters. Or let me put this in a slightly more honest way. OreImo isnt selling a story to the audience; its selling a set of characters to the audience. This is the driving point of OreImos charm, but simultaneously the vehicle of its pandering. OreImos characters fall into very specific tropes to make them more sellable, easier to merchandise as it were. In a broad generalization, Kirino is the violent tsundere, Kuroneko is the goth loli, Saori pulls double duty as the super nerd and rich girl, Ayase is the yandere etc. What makes this work so well in OreImo is that there is more to each of the characters than just their archetypes and they are actually believable in the way theyre presented. Ill talk about two, Kirino and Kuroneko briefly to expand.
Kirino is two-faced in many respects because shes been leading quite literally a double-life for whats implied to be quite some time before the beginning of the show. Its also somewhat implied that while she hates her brother in the beginning, this wasnt always the case. Sometime between their younger years and the shows beginning they got along fine, but then had a falling out. The exact circumstances of this have not yet been explained (at least in the show anyway, I dont know about the books). As such, while she ends up revealing her secret otaku ways to him in the first episode, shes still weary about completely trusting him and is more comfortable treating him poorly as shes simply more accustomed to doing so. So her violent tsundere tendencies to her brother make sense.
Kuroneko comes from household thats obviously less well-off than Kirinos, and spends a lot of her time at home taking care of her younger sisters. Additionally, she begins the story (and spends a good deal of it) not being great at interacting with new people. With all the stress of taking so much responsibility in the family combined with no friends to help relieve some of that weight just from chatting, hanging out etc, its completely understandable that shed desire to escape into a fantasy world from time to time. A fantasy world where shes an aloof, strong person who doesnt need help from others and pities the poor, miserable mortals who do. Thus the very frequent LARPing in full costume.
So while the characters are most definitely archetypes, theyre given actual character which makes them a lot more likeable and memorable. And even if one doesnt like the characters (I know a lot of people hate Kirino, for example) that doesnt necessarily make them a bad character. Just one that isnt likable.
Anyway, what I tend to see is people say OreImo is badly written because the plot of OreImo is dumb or inconsequential, of no substance. But thats because its not a Plot-Driven narrative, its a Character-Driven one. But thats not to say OreImo is extremely well written either, because its not (I have some nit picks). OreImo carries the stench of a story being written as it goes along, not a story that has been well planned from the outset. As is often the case with serials, OreImo probably started with a premise going no further than the first book in case the IP didnt take off. And then once it did become popular, the author went from there and just kept adding on. The problem with this kind of setup is that you end up with parts of the story that just dont make a whole lot of sense.
One problem I have with OreImo is right in the first episode, when Kirino reveals her hobby to Kyousuke. This whole scene is actually very very nicely done, except theres one thing that continues to bug me; the staggering size of her collection. This was clearly done with the idea of really driving home to the audience that Kirino is really fucking hardcore, but the problem I have is this: Kirino is a minor, and while the story tries to get away with this with the whole modeling job she does, I know how expensive that shit is, and the amount of cash shed have to have to be able to buy all of those discs, figures, eroge etc. Well let slide for now the idea of how much money a teenage model would actually make, and focus on my major problem; most of the time when a child model/celebrity makes money, its not paid to them directly because of various Child Labor laws. So this money would instead go to some sort of Custodial Account that managed by her parents. So while it is the childs money, the parents are the only ones who can withdraw from the Custodial Account until the child comes of age (which is why you hear stories about children who made tons of money as actors, etc. but then never see a dime of that money themselves as their parents spent it all). And with the amount of money that would be necessary to buy all of those DVDs/BDs/Figures/Games etc, theres absolutely no way on earth the parents would just blindly keep withdrawing that money from the account and give it to her without asking just what shes apparently spending thousands of dollars on. And the thing is, the point could have EASILY been driven home without all of the merchandise. She could have just had some Meruru DVDs and maybe one figure with a couple of games and just talked about them incredibly passionately, which she kind of does anyway. That would have MORE than sufficed, and been a million times more believable.
But okay, whatever, its a silly premise so I have to just let that slide, right? Okay, I will. But what I will NOT let slide is a victim of the writing as he goes along problem I mentioned earlier. The last episode where
Kyousuke suddenly goes to America to get Kirino back. The thing is, travelling across country would be one thing. Travelling to another country requires a PASSPORT! We never establish at any point in the story, ever, that Kyousuke has ever been to another country at any point in his life, and as such I would conclude he likely wouldnt have one. You dont just go to your local airport and get a passport that day, applying for a passport usually takes at least a month. So that entire plot point just made me throw my hands up and say Bullshit! at the screen. And all it would have taken is maybe in some prior episode have Kyousuke give some anecdote about a family trip they took when they were younger where maybe Kirino and Kyousuke werent yet on bad terms, make it some sort of reminiscence scene or something. Then just insert a brief scene of him digging for that old passport hoping its still valid, and just barely it is or something. THEN Id have been totally okay with that, but this whole bit is sloppily written, or rather Im guessing the author realized it when he got to it but decided to make no mention of passports in the hopes that his readers wouldnt notice.
So yeah, there are aspects of OreImo I would say arent well written. But its not what Id call poorly written overall either.
I have this issue a lot. I've got a gigantic backlog that I probably wont get through for many years. But that's a good thing!
It would be more accurate to say lovers of such tsun in tsunderes might be sadistic, but the dere from a tsundere doesn't have to be reciprocal to the tsun, so I wouldn't say the coin analogy works. It's the idea that the harder the tsun, the greater the dere is. It's why the immediate dere from a casual tsun isn't as appealing until the tsundere's tough exterior eventually melts and exposes a glimpse of dere for some. It's also why tomboy tsunderes have been popular in recent years.
That's true. I'd think most of those would be sold through by now, but maybe not...
hosannainexcelsis
Member
Natsume S4 is the best of the new shows this season and should be watched eventually, though you should watch at least the first two seasons first. Besides Daily Lives, the only other show that I would definitely recommend at this point is Ano Natsu de Matteru.
Dedication Through Light
Member
Well people still discuss even when weeks behind or after the season ends. I mean Im still watching Gundam Seed and that was like eons ago.
Aquarion Evol is a must watch, deepest dialogue and the most pumping in mecha scenes Ive ever seen.
Yeah that or Zero no Tsukaima I don't really want to watch due to that reason. I am catching up on Bakemonogatari recently, but I hear Nisemonogatari isn't good.
I usually keep up until halfway through the season, then after it ends I try to catch up but fall short 3-4 episodes. Then it just sits there in my backlog... Like I've only watched 7 episodes of Mirai Nikki and I really have to catch up but I don't know why I don't.
So there's no other winter show that's a must watch? I guess spring has a lot more good ones coming.
EDIT:
Oh, seems like Natsume is a must watch. Maybe I'll watch S1 sometime during this summer.
Aquarion huh. Alright will try!
Yeah Lagrange is actually really good, despite I was skeptical of it at first. I'm enjoying it too much recently while I have to be studying for my upcoming exams :\ It's good I'm 5 episodes behind, but at the same time there's the urge to get caught up asap.
I'll probably try Ano Natsu as well.
Femmeworth
Banned
It would be difficult to find out whether the show is on a new printing or not save for directly asking Funimation. Furthermore, I noticed that the Amazon page for the Meister Collection lists the region as being USA/Canada only, so I don't know if this is a mistake in the product listing or if Funi decided not to fix the error after all.
I would think they'd have to fix the error; Madman released it in Australia and Funi prints the discs for them. Actually, Madman had to recall their first batch because of the error because they were region locked to A -- and Australia is a B territory, lol.
He could import the Australian discs to be sure though, since the A-locked ones were recalled.
you pointed out several things I just kind of let slide in the show, like the absurd collection of stuff in her closet without her parents knowing about it, and yes, the passport. however, I think these things were largely seen as irrelevant details and those things were meant to be accepted "as is". This is probably why I dont really have a problem with a lot of poorly written shows. I just kind of skim over these little glaring plot holes and accept the show for what it is. This has gotten me through some pretty shitty anime over the years.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Oh trust me, I let a lot of stuff slide too and just enjoy it for what it is (I'll go on record as a fan of OreImo). But I do notice this stuff. ^^; And really the only reason I brought them up is to highlight that overall I think the writing is fine, but it's not "great" or anything. Overlook a few things here and there and it's perfectly acceptable. ^^;
I don't know your standards or tolerance, but Aquarion Evol isn't a must watch. Would not recommend it under that criteria.Aquarion huh. Alright will try!
Myself; Yourself 3
Oh man, this character's voice is like nails on a chalkboard. FUUUUUUUUUU.
LOL. Yeah, her voice was extremely annoying.
You make some good points, but I think people will warm up to Kirino in the inevitable second season. There's a lot of backstory regarding her relationship with Kyosuke that's yet to be revealed I think.
I do think her tsun could've been handled better, but I enjoyed her abusing Kyosuke in the anime to be honest
It would've been a lot more generic had they made her more likeable.I just wanted to know what GAF recommends, so I'll try for myself if I like it or not. A couple of days ago I noticed you guys kept talking about Lagrange, so yesterday I decided to check it out, and it turned out to be something I like.
I will never ever ever ever understand anyone who thinks Kirino even approaches a resemblance of a believable little sister. I can only assume such people have never had siblings and have never known anyone who has. Violent tsundere tendencies are as far from reality as you can get when it comes to characterization. There is no depth at all to Kirino. She's a textbook tsundere. She does something wrong, blames brother, punches him. Now, it's commonplace to try to put the blame on your siblings when you've messed up in real life. However, there's a huge difference between the reality of "oops, I broke a cup, I'll say my little bro did it" and anime's "Oh I walked in on you bathing, this is somehow your fault and I'm going to beat you up for it". Where do you see believability in there? What's more, her character never changes from being a tsundere either. There's no character growth, no changes in how she acts. If Oreimo is such a character-driven show, then there should at least be some character growth.
Please point out one single moment of character growth that steps outside the box of generic tsundere for Kirino in Oreimo. Oh wait, that moment doesn't exist, because Oreimo isn't a character driven show, it's a cardboard-cut-out pandering driven show.
Actually, the plot of Oreimo, girl has unrespectable hobby, brother finds out, could actually be good. It's the least offensive part of the show. Now, if you're going to make a Character driven show, it's important to remember to put characters in there. Having a main character is also generally a good idea, but sadly, the makers of Oreimo forgot that, and put in a doormat instead. Of course, you can argue that in a fanservice harem pandering incest show like Oreimo, no one is going to bother about the male main character, it's the female ones who are important. Ok, let's take a look at the refreshingly nuanced and varied cast. There's Kirino, a prototypical tsundere who
Oh yeah, there's also that beaten, psychologically scarred sufferer of Stockholm Syndrome who's supposed to be the Main Character.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
I'll just warn you that Dedication Through Light is a troll character and should not be taken seriously.
Now episode 8 of Aquarion Evol is worth watching, if only for its over-the-top stupidity.
I just noticed episode 1 of Aquarion is twice as long. Is this episode good? I remember Fate/Zero was the same, but it was well worth it right after.
So Natsume, Ano Natsu, and Aquarion are shows I should probably try out. Other than that I guess there's no other show as awesome as Daily or Lagrange.
Try Moeretsu Pirates! It's my favorite new show of the season, along with Ano Natsu. It's also being directed by the same person as Lagrange, so if you're enjoying that, definitely give Pirates a try.
You bastard. ;_;
For the longest time I just called those dudes sidekick characters. The length is an issue but that title may just suffice.
It's really called Moeretsu? Lol. Ah interesting that two shows are directed by the same person on the same season, will try it soon!
Sounds good cajunator, I'll bump up Pirates in my list.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
I have a little sister, and during her younger years if I was teasing her or whatever it wasn't completely unheard of for her to give me a quick elbow jab (and it hurt like hell too). Obviously this is an anime and there's going to be a lot of exaggeration to the extend of her actions for humor, but my point is that an attitude like that on a lesser scale isn't as uncommon as you might think.
I would say the last bit in the True Route of Episode 12 had her growing a bit in her interactions with Kyousuke. At the very least she was opening up to him a bit more and was definitely concerned with spending the last of her time with him. But yes, she's the character who grows the least over the entire show. However Kyousuke does grow as a character, as does Kuroneko.
Look, I'm not going to argue that these are somehow the deepest characters in the world, as they're totally not. However I do think you're letting your impressions of Kirino affect your view of the rest of the cast. Kirino is the flatest of the characters most definitely, but more than a lot of other MCs in shows like OreImo, Kyousuke isn't what I'd call a doormat. Sure he's willing to bend more than he'd like to for his little sister, but that's mainly because she's family and he doesn't bend over like that with regards to the others except Ayase because he has the hots for her. Other than that I'm not seeing the whole doormat argument for him to be honest. And I think you're stretching a bit on the other archetypes considering how very specific they are.
Dedication Through Light
Member
Its both episode 1 + 2.
A Black Falcon
Member
Mouretsu.
And yes, it's the best anime in years, for anyone who loves sci-fi TV shows like I do anyway.
No its called Mouretsu Space Pirates, or Bodacious Space Pirates. However it is really a cute show with an interesting story developing. Marika isnt a total idiot despite being new to pirating, and neither are her crew. Its very Trekky in that regard.
chickdigger802
Banned
And another Fairy Tail arc kinda finished.
Why the fuck does this show look so budgeted, but have such kickass music?
Why the fuck does this show look so budgeted, but have such kickass music?
It's right in the title. "There's no way my little sister can be this cute"
The whole gimmick of Oreimo is Kirino being a violent tsundere. I don't like her either, but she's what keeps the show going. I think what we saw in the first season is just the super annoying part of her, and in the eventual second (and third, perhaps) we'll see her character change for the better.
I think you're overselling the she-doesn't-ever-change part, though. I mean she warms up a little to Kyosuke by the end (plays fighting games and stuff with him) there was even that episode where she thanks him for all the shit he helped her with (although she was still being tsun in the following episodes)
I don't understand. How is that typical? All you did was describe her in a negative way..
I mean, I can understand why one would dislike Oreimo, but you're being a bit irrational with that point.
Wow so many Mouretsu Pirates supporters. I'll have to watch it tonight or tomorrow at this rate.
Ah Fairy Tail, pretty much the only show that I've been caught up with (minus two episodes). It's awesome right. I wonder what they'll do now that they're at the same arc as the manga now.
Don't watch it now though. Wait for it to finish and then marathon it.
At least, that's what i've been doing in 3 episode increments. The show is infinitely more enjoyable not watching it week by week, and is like my 4th favorite this season.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
She does change the least, and it's why she's the character I like the least in the show. But she does show moments of possible change, and I think part of her problem is she's afraid to change her attitude toward Kyousuke.
I don't get that either. Like I said I think he's letting his views on Kirino affect his view of the rest of the cast.
How many episodes is Mouretsu and Lagrange supposed to be? I usually half-marathon each show.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
Mouretsu is 26 episodes, and Rinne is a split-cour show with 12 episodes airing now and 12 in the summer.
You're getting the half-marathon built right in, heh.
riiiiiiight
because feeding your sisters perversion, taking blame for it, and dealing with constant stress brought on by her wacky perverted hijinks and batshit crazy friends isnt a doormat character?
His only purpose in the show is to deal with constant shit because hes attracted to his sister, which is a pretty terrible one.
unfortunately there's nothing really bodacious about the space pirates show outside of the hot milf that pops up every now and then. it's still pretty enjoyable after you get past the first few slow episodes.
Gintama 113
holy shit, an episode that goes from some dude talking about the need for a toilet revolution to a nausicaa parody. this show just continues to amaze.
Gintama 113
holy shit, an episode that goes from some dude talking about the need for a toilet revolution to a nausicaa parody. this show just continues to amaze.
Lagrange's split works perfectly, but just like Fate/Zero, I'll most likely stop at the very last episode of the first season before picking it up again...sometime.
I just caught up on this and its actually quite cool. Although, a mental breakdown per episode is a bit much isn't it?
Well, it's not like he brushed her teeth or anything!
the dental scene from the tatami galaxy?
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