ParaSeoul
Member
No dev kits usually have more ram
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Xbox Series S is More of a Support Console – The Crown of Wu Dev
- Thread starter Lunatic_Gamer
- Start date
- Game Dev Hardware
It definitely shouldn’t , as series s has all the basic components that series X has, you just need to scale down your gave in areas ..
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It has low RAM which is a little more difficult.
DaGwaphics
Member
IKR, if resolution and framerate is your thing, the PS5 is trash to you and you game on something better. Console are the value option for the masses, they are all low-end at the end of the day.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
but series s is doing 900p30 in some games already... the 1440p60 promise is not even holding up for big consoles
Captain Toad
Banned
How many current-gen only cross-platform games were we getting before now?
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
How many games have been released on PS5 but not Series X because of Series S? I think it's zero, but correct me if I'm wrong.
Captain Toad
Banned
When everything is also on PS4 and Xbox One, of course, Series S isn't an issue.
And, besides Baulder's Gate 3, I guess we never know what comprises will be made or if companies are more likely to deal with Sony for exclusivity so they don't need to worry about Series S - Final Fantasy XVI, Valkyrie Elysium, Forspoken, etc.
We are just now getting to the end of cross-platform games. Stuff coming out even now like Resident Evil 4 and Hogwarts Legacy are coming to PS4/XBO.
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Reduce texture resolution etc ..
skit_data
Member
Lol, I’ll be happy if even 1/3 of the big, graphics heavy AAA games uses those settings on the Series X and PS5 throughout the whole generation.
I think 1440p 30fps will become the norm within a couple of years, possibly with a performance mode targeting 1080p with DRS.
AmuroChan
Member
I think for Microsoft's business model, this is worth the sacrifice. The Series S alone probably added millions of GP subs from people who otherwise wouldn't have splurged on a premium console. Microsoft's priority is GP. If a couple of games a year don't make it to XBox because the devs couldn't get them to run on Series S, then so be it. I don't think MS is too concerned about that.
dotnotbot
Member
Yup, Series X is the console that provides that in most of games. Don't know why would you bring that up in Series S thread though.
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
As if Forspoken was exclusive to PS5 because the devs didn't want to deal with Series S. Of all the ridiculous claims that'll be made today, yours will surely not be beaten.
Captain Toad
Banned
I don’t think you understand game development. It doesn't matter if it's pushing the limits of the hardware. Getting even lesser technical games to run on weaker hardware is more difficult, thus more expensive.
Baulder's Gate, for example, could easily run on Series S. It could run on PS4 too. But, it also would require more specialized attention as you can't just leave it as is and brute force it, like you can with PS5 or Series X. It comes down to whether the publisher is willing to take the extra cost it requires to optimize their game to run on the hardware.
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Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
I don't know why you implied that Forspoken might not be on Xbox because the devs couldn't make it work on Series S. In that sense I don't think you understand how to make a point that doesn't sound absolutely absurd.
DragonNCM
Member
Is the Xbox Series S, thanks to its weaker hardware compared to the Xbox Series X and PS5, going to become an issue down the line? While we’re obviously going to have to wait for a concrete answer on that front, Jose Carlos Montero – CEO of Red Hook Games, the studio behind Journey to the West-inspired action-adventure title The Crown of Wu – feels that it certainly falls below its more powerful current-gen counterparts where the current generation’s hierarchy is concerned.
Speaking in a recent interview with GamingBolt, Montero said that personally, he sees the Xbox Series S as more of a support console, especially with Game Pass becoming more of a driving force for Microsoft, and added that he believes the console will find it hard to maintain 1440p/60 FPS for the more demanding games throughout the course of the generation- which is what Microsoft promised back when it was first unveiled.
“It’s going to be hard to hold 1440p/60 FPS for the most demanding games of the generation,” Montero said. “As much as Xbox wants to sell it this way I don’t think the average consumer will want to buy a Series S and establish it as their console for the whole generation. Personally I see it more as a support console, for example in our case at home we have a PS5 and a Series S that we use to play Xbox exclusive games or just to enjoy the wonderful Game Pass system. If we want to enjoy more resolution/quality we play on PS5 or PC directly.”
Microsoft, as you might expect, has staunchly defended the console. In the lead-up to its launch in 2020, for instance, Xbox system architect Andrew Goossen said that the Xbox Series S wouldn’t hold back the new generation of consoles, but would instead actually help advance it.
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cireza
Member
Xbox Series S is the console used to evaluate developers during interviews nowadays.
Make this work on Series S. If you succeed, then you get the job. You have one hour.
Developers discretely ask ChatGPT how to optimize the program to run on Xbox Series S. ChatGPT's response :
Maybe try another job ?
Make this work on Series S. If you succeed, then you get the job. You have one hour.
Developers discretely ask ChatGPT how to optimize the program to run on Xbox Series S. ChatGPT's response :
Maybe try another job ?
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jm89
Member
Grizzled Ghost
Member
I can't wait to see the Switch version of Hogwarts Legacy. I think the devs were secretly hoping that they really would get canceled in the media and that version would never have to actually release.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
It’s an underpowered device for 2023 and beyond.
therealmoonface
Neo Member
I don’t really see the negative in being the support console, I got a Series S for my sons to use on our projector and it works great. I don’t even see the big dogs doing 1440/60 through this whole gen, graphics will continue to improve and those settings will continue to tick down, same as any other gen. The console will continue to sell and continue to do what MS wants, get people into the GamePass ecosystem, get them hooked, and keep them subscribed. They want to rely less and less on third party royalties to sustain themselves.
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ProgenitorCastle
Banned
DarkMage619
$MSFT
It was never promised that the XSS would run every game the same as the XSX but at 1080p. It was promised to have the same feature set ie Quick Resume, RDNA2, and SSD. It is akin to the XSX and PS5 promising 4K when many titles to not meet that standard. I hope you will complain about that too. No company makes promises on what game developers will do with their hardware.
Have ANY of those devs complaining used the ram saving features of the console? Sampler feedback streaming for one. I am thinking they are using the the PS5 for lead development and then struggling to make it work on Xbox Series consoles. If you don't use the features of a system it isn't surprising you'd have more difficulties.
I'm curious to see how Starfield works on XSS. Flight Simulator already surprised a ton of people not to mention the Matrix Demo.
systemr123
Member
I think if you can’t get something like Baldurs Gate 3 to run on the series S you as a dev studio are doing something completely wrong. There is no reason why this game would not run with some toned down graphics and other things. I can imagine the dev just not wanting to take the time to optimize for it though.
Spitfire098
Member
Weird MS still can't chart number 1 on the NPD list, while practically giving away the series s over the holidays
.i recently got a series s (completely for free thanks to amazons generous customer service in the end) as a game pass box, its a budget mastermind.
New games using newer engines and all the api's will do a much better job at scaling down to series s as we are only just now breaking over in to next gen exclusive territories using the proper next gen tools rather than shoe horning it into last gen games.
its a budget machine with budget results, its kinda the whole point and settings can be scaled fairly easily given they are glorified pcs.
people love to get their knickers in a twist over everything for no reason.
New games using newer engines and all the api's will do a much better job at scaling down to series s as we are only just now breaking over in to next gen exclusive territories using the proper next gen tools rather than shoe horning it into last gen games.
its a budget machine with budget results, its kinda the whole point and settings can be scaled fairly easily given they are glorified pcs.
people love to get their knickers in a twist over everything for no reason.
dotnotbot
Member
Weird MS still can't chart number 1 on the NPD list, while practically giving away the series s over the holidays
It's such a good deal people think it's a scam and aren't buying it
it wasn't even that at least for the initial price.
for a $200 extra you can get triple gpu, double ssd, 1.5* ram and a bluray drive with a series x.
an insane price to performance upgrade.
thats the support console you'd want.
thing was basically a scam for tech uneducated.
with hefty discounts to sub $200 range, it can maybe make some sense.
i still wouldn't touch it
for a $200 extra you can get triple gpu, double ssd, 1.5* ram and a bluray drive with a series x.
an insane price to performance upgrade.
thats the support console you'd want.
thing was basically a scam for tech uneducated.
with hefty discounts to sub $200 range, it can maybe make some sense.
i still wouldn't touch it
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Sorcerer
Member
Do you mean coming out with a better Series S? I mean you could just buy the X, there is nowhere else to for Microsoft to go with the S. And if people feel burned by a new S, Microsoft can pretty much ensure people won't be buying the lower end machine if they try this again next gen.
Also, the S benefited by being available during the height of the pandemic. I'm not so sure this strategy would work twice for them. I wonder if the current X will just become next gens S?
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
It's power is just fine for the right application, smaller screen (or people who sit furrher away), 1080p display, people who aren't super picky, a secondary console.
Sanepar
Member
I would say 720p. Most games already are 1080p. Next year 720p will be a reality. 4 tflops is ridiculous weak.
Truespeed
Member
Yes, it's a great Xbox One dev kit.
justiceiro
Marlboro: Other M
It's been two years. If it's getting along so far, it will make until the generation end. Besides, even high end consoles start to struggle halfway into the generation. Let's stop making excuses for the fact most devs don't have resources to make games look better than they already do these days.
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
Sorry but we aren't going to wake up tommorow and magically have all games run like crap at 1080p on 4tf of modern architecture when most run fine now.
I'd say likely you don't really understand the hardware.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
It’s underpowered. End off.
It barely reaches 1080p in most applications now. Which is muddy AF anything below on them dated ass displays.
This is 2023 and beyond, bruh. Not need to go hard in the paint for that underpowered box.
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THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
It's not end of anything, just because a couple of forum warriors state it.
It plays most properly developed games at 1080p with no issue, hardly "barely".
I get what year it is, I don't need to go hard for series S at all, the biggest question is, why do you feel the need to say it's underpowered? Why go hard for disparaging it?
Does it scare you somehow? Offend your console sensibilities? It bothers you when people play game at less than 4k?
If you want to get really "technical", you could say all of the next gen consoles are "underpowered". Series X and PS5 are often not able to meet the 4k 60fps target most next gen gamers want and we are early in the generation.
You should just let it go. For a lower cost console, it's not underpowered.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Ok. It's still underpowered for "next gen current gen".
He didn't imply it. He just said that you would never know the decision process of studios on games like it, you do know the reason with BG3 who gave the Series S as the reason. That still might or might not come to xbox. That's all he said because you asked
Now you say it's absolutely absurd but the possibility itself can't be that absurd if it's a legitimate reason given by another studio.
Forspoken had a minimum spec set during development and a timed partnership which may have facilitated that. SE could decide that an xbox port is costly to optimise and redo assets for 10GB RAM and you simply will never know of that decision. minimum requirements on PC even have considerably higher RAM requirements 16+8GB RAM.
Nobody is saying that this is the reason though or implying it, just that we have had very few third party PS5 only games to begin with and we won't be privy to the studio business decisions which might have taken Series S development into account. We just know about one though and that's BG3 because they publicly said it.
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Riky
$MSFT
Exactly right, people can't understand the design philosophy is the problem and that's more to do with them than the console.
If you want the most powerful console then just buy a Series X, the point of Series S is not to compete with that console visually, it's to give some of the advantages of a next gen consoles at a more affordable entry price.
It's cheap, very small, quiet and has a fraction of the power draw. Although it's not a handheld it's very portable which is helped by quick resume where you can remove power and still continue your game later elsewhere. Getting 120fps at 80w power draw is incredible. You can run this machine for hours off a solar generator in your motorhome.
I know people who have Series S as their main and only console, I know PS5 owners who own one as a way to play Gamepass, I know people who see it as a bedroom console or a support console to their Series X as you can use the same file to play the same game elsewhere. It fits into many situations.
Technically it will be interesting when we see Forza Motorsport and other first party games, if it's capable of 1080p at 60fps with in game RT as they claim then that's a potent package for the price. It's already coped very well with the next gen only software like Flight Simulator and the UE5 Matrix demo along with the Fortnite upgrade.
Could MS have made it more powerful, sure, more ram and ram bandwith would have been helpful but the point was to have hundreds of dollars difference in price with the Series X, if you don't have that difference then it becomes pretty pointless having two different consoles.
There are added technical issues in this instance, as they need to render everything twice in co-op, and there's limits to what can be cut for the series S without compromising their vision for the game, and the quality of product they are happy to release. Some devs (and rightly so wouldn't want to do that). Then there is the very real matter of cost. YES they 'could' commit additional developers, or have their existing dev team keep slaving away on it, but how many are needed? and for how long? its also quite deflating to stay in crunch post-release, for a platform that they won't actually sell that many units on given the sales disparity between the platforms. Those same developers could be utilised on more commercially valuable tasks, such as building DLC to drive more revenue from pc/ps players, or develop new products. Their biz dev and finance people will be crunching those numbers to determine if those costs are worth it. It could be they just assign one guy to it and in a year they eventually get something out. Time will tell I suppose.
systemr123
Member
Just gimp the co-op and give it crap graphics. At least it can be released. On the other hand, I have a PS5 as well and it’s my main console so I don’t care so much myself
. I understand if they don’t want to butcher their vision and respect their decision, just mentioning nothing is impossible.
Nocturno999
Member
The people constantly attacking the series S are the same that buy the "8K, RT, 4k 120FPS" label on the PS5's box.
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