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[golem]

From Dave Baumann

Xenos is "three" pipelines, yet consumes 200M+ transistors, is there something wrong there? Wink

Number of pipes means very little without knowing what is going on underneath them.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=543765#543765

very interested to see whats going to be in his Xenos article (19 pages or so?)

 

[Shogmaster]

From Dave Baumann


http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=543765#543765

very interested to see whats going to be in his Xenos article (19 pages or so?)

It's also been explained as having "3 SIMD engines with 16 shader 'pipes' each" by other articles...

Xenos is just way too different than any other current PC card architectures to compare using the old terms.

 

[gofreak]

It's 3 divisions of 16 ALUs.

Not 16 pipelines by the way

You could call the 3 "divisions", "pipelines" if you wish, but as Shog says, you can't really directly compare.

 

[Doube D]

You know, wtf is up w/ that guy anyway? He is going to publish a paper on the xenos and tell us all about it.... but has sent a copy to ati henchmen to be approved first? LOL, so let me get this straight, are we supposed to believe his final published work as legit and unbiased? Bah. Looks like we’ll get PR bs until the consoles are released and geeks start breaking into them hands on, w/ no NDAs or money hats to worry about.

 

[Blimblim]

You know, wtf is up w/ that guy anyway? He is going to publish a paper on the xenos and tell us all about it.... but has sent a copy to ati henchmen to be approved first? LOL, so let me get this straight, are we supposed to believe his final published work as legit and unbiased? Bah. Looks like we’ll get PR bs until the consoles are released and geeks start breaking into them hands on, w/ no NDAs or money hats to worry about.

Yeah, because once the so powerful geeks get their hands on the new console hardware, they'll be able to tell exactly what's going on in the GPU by just looking at it with a magnifying glass and a very tiny needle.
Sensitive stuff like this almost always needs to get a validation from the manufacturer so you get the numbers and facts straight. It does not (always) imply bias or anything else.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

You know, wtf is up w/ that guy anyway? He is going to publish a paper on the xenos and tell us all about it.... but has sent a copy to ati henchmen to be approved first? LOL, so let me get this straight, are we supposed to believe his final published work as legit and unbiased? Bah. Looks like we’ll get PR bs until the consoles are released and geeks start breaking into them hands on, w/ no NDAs or money hats to worry about.

....

Dude, he has to have them look at it to ensure that sensitive/NDA'ed information isn't revealed. How sending his paper into ATI for a look-see somehow makes it automatically biased is beyond me. Stop smoking that crack.

 

[Pug]

Double D he has an interview with two of the designers of Xenos. I suspose just like any other publication they want to make sure that what he writes is technically correct. Dave will release an unbiasis review of Xenos.

 

[gofreak]

Dave's explanation is:

a) The interview was with two Xenos designers, and they talked openly and freely about everything he wanted to discuss, and there was no PR involvement in that interview

b) He now has sent it back to others (PR?) at ATi to ensure no info that should be revealed is revealed.

That's his story. Of course, I can see why some may be suspicious of the second half of the above equation in that their censorship may be liberal in areas they don't like being discussed versus what's actually sensitive and NDA-ed, though personally I'm confident it won't be biased.

I expect Dave's will be a good insightful article, though I'm sure it won't be the final word, Doube D, so there will be other articles..

 

[Doube D]

Umm, ye ok? If the microscopic workings of xenos are what he is going to write about.... wouldn't it be a much simpler task to just ask Ati to provide the white papers (that they do not deem Area 51 worthy) and publish them instead? I would much rather see some benchmarks that are directly comparable w/ current hardware than some theoretical can and can’t doz.

The only things I will take away from his report are pure factual numbers. His opinion is compromised as far as im concerned.

 

[Shogmaster]

Umm, ye ok? If the microscopic workings of xenos are what he is going to write about.... wouldn't it be a much simpler task to just ask Ati to provide the white papers (that they do not deem Area 51 worthy) and publish them instead? I would much rather see some benchmarks that are directly comparable w/ current hardware than some theoretical can and can’t doz.

The only things I will take away from his report are pure factual numbers. His opinion is compromised as far as im concerned.

A). Obviously ATi is not willing to hand out the white papers on Xenos, least of which is that they don't own the IP of Xenos, MS does.

B). You're a douche

 

[Doube D]

A). Obviously ATi is not willing to hand out the white papers on Xenos, least of which is that they don't own the IP of Xenos, MS does.

B). You're a douche

A) So they won't publish white papers containing the material he is going to write about anyway? Yet they will go over his material and approve it officially? And MS owns the IP, but ati is clearing this? uhhh huh

B) An xbot calling me a douche.... im.... im hurt... sniff

 

[Shogmaster]

A) So they won't publish white papers containing the material he is going to write about anyway?

What's so hard to comprehend about this? Besides, you write about shit all the time on this forum, and you rarely have any pertinent information, let alone any white papers.

Yet they will go over his material and approve it officially?

They have to make sure the engineers did not accidently reveal too much.

And MS owns the IP, but ati is clearing this? uhhh huh

ATI lawyers know what to reveal and what not to from their agreement with MS.

B) An xbot calling me a douche.... im.... im hurt... sniff

Being an XBot is infinitely better than being a douche. :lol

 

[AB 101]

Being an XBot is infinitely better than being a douche. :lol

Marginal.

 

[Shogmaster]

Marginal.

Perhaps you could elaborate that scale with Sony whores and Nintendorks in the mix. :lol

 

[Doube D]

What's so hard to comprehend about this? Besides, you write about shit all the time on this forum, and you rarely have any pertinent information, let alone any white papers.

Lol. You would make a good lawyer friend. Talk about totally sidestepping what I said w/ bs. Again, not publishing white papers (mentioning the same exact material this guy is going to write about) and yet going over his stuff to make sure it is correct? And you compare what he is writing w/ random posts from random members on a forum? You need to work on your arguments a bit, cause frankly, they aren't "pertinent."

They have to make sure the engineers did not accidently reveal too much.

Why? To take out info they don't want him to reveal about their precious chip and leave the ones that he can reveal? Wouldn't it be easier to just publish a few pages on their site w/ the same info, marking it official instead of passing it through a 3rd party?

ATI lawyers know what to reveal and what not to from their agreement with MS?

NO WAY DUDE! I thought you just said ATi couldn't reveal any white papers cause MS had the IP!! Those tricky MS lawyers I tell ya. Officially allowing ATi to reveal info through a 3rd party but no white papers saying the same exact thing for youuu. lol

Being an XBot is infinitely better than being a douche. :lol

You suck at this amigo. Come up with actual arguments and then you'll earn respect. Right now you are living up to your avatar.

 

[Shogmaster]

Lol. You would make a good lawyer friend. Talk about totally sidestepping what I said w/ bs. Again, not publishing white papers (mentioning the same exact material this guy is going to write about) and yet going over his stuff to make sure it is correct? And you compare what he is writing w/ random posts from random members on a forum? You need to work on your arguments a bit, cause frankly, they aren't "pertinent."

First of all, white papers /= what he is going to write about. One would think white papers would be far more comprehensive. He is going to write about what ATi is allowed to reveal.

Why? To take out info they don't want him to reveal about their precious chip and leave the ones that he can reveal? Wouldn't it be easier to just publish a few pages on their site w/ the same info, marking it official instead of passing it through a 3rd party?

Dave's job in this case isn't to completely expose every secret of Xenos. He wants to do that, but obviously, that's just a wishful thinking (something you are having troble comprehending). Thus he's main job with the article will be making the very foreign Xenos architecture more understandable to us who's only familiar with the more "traditional" GPU architectures (which we need desperately right now).

NO WAY DUDE! I thought you just said ATi couldn't reveal any white papers cause MS had the IP!! Those tricky MS lawyers I tell ya. Officially allowing ATi to reveal info through a 3rd party but no white papers saying the same exact thing for youuu. lol

Maybe be this is all a lost cause, but I will explain once more: ATi is bound legally to keep many espects of the Xenos a secret by MS. But ATi is currently charged with the task of explain how the Xenos architecture works, differs, and is superior to the current architecture. But they have to do this in the confines of the agreement.

Put a cold compress on your head if this is too much for you to handle.

You suck at this amigo.

Quality stuff. Obviously, you are far better at this.

Come up with actual arguments and then you'll earn respect.

Earning respect from you is like earning respect from the loudest kid on the short bus. Not gonna be worth much here on the big bus.

Right now you are living up to your avatar.

What, a crazy dictator with finger on the nuclear button? I'm unleashing a salvo on your ass right now. :lol

 

[Doube D]

First of all, white papers /= what he is going to write about. One would think white papers would be far more comprehensive. He is going to write about what ATi is allowed to reveal.

My friend, you are either thick (to put it mildly) or in denial. Thus I suggest you catch up on hooked on phonics before you spew any more bs. It may fly on teamxbot forums, but anyone even slightly reasonable can see you are CLEARLY either mentally handicapped, ignorant, or simply choosing to dance around the issue with BS. To clarify a point you have failed to grasp time and again, I never said they should publish every damn thing about the xenos. I said:

...wouldn't it be a much simpler task to just ask Ati to provide the white papers (that they do not deem Area 51 worthy) and publish them instead?

Pay attention to the bold print darling, then come here talking about reading comprehension.

Dave's job in this case isn't to completely expose every secret of Xenos. He wants to do that, but obviously, that's just a wishful thinking (something you are having troble comprehending). Thus he's main job with the article will be making the very foreign Xenos architecture more understandable to us who's only familiar with the more "traditional" GPU architectures (which we need desperately right now).

Tell me, where did I say it was his job to "completely expose every secret of xenos"? And when did I say ATi should do the same? What is that saying?? I think it goes something like put up or SHUT UP.

Maybe be this is all a lost cause, but I will explain once more: ATi is bound legally to keep many espects of the Xenos a secret by MS. But ATi is currently charged with the task of explain how the Xenos architecture works, differs, and is superior to the current architecture. But they have to do this in the confines of the agreement.

Oh I have no doubt it is a lost cause, and thus this will be my last reply in this topic. The point (this isn't rocket science) is that if ATi has the permission to reveal info through some 3rd party, it beguiles me to think that those pesky lawyers at MS would not allow them to reveal THE SAME INFORMATION (read, NOTHING MORE OR LESS) themselves.

Put a cold compress on your head if this is too much for you to handle.

You’re a joke character here to amuse the masses. Keep at it.

Quality stuff. Obviously, you are far better at this.

Oh no, I concede. You are a true master of spin and bs. I could not possibly compete.

Earning respect from you is like earning respect from the loudest kid on the short bus. Not gonna be worth much here on the big bus.

The only thing you will ever earn from me is my sympathy for your inaptitude. I was talking about the forum as a whole.

What, a crazy dictator with finger on the nuclear button? I'm unleashing a salvo on your ass right now. :lol

Or a delusional grump wanting the masses to buy into his bs.

 

[PG2G]

What the hell is the point of this argument?

I'm sure they CAN release the information. Whether they would actually take the time and money that goes into writing a paper is the question. Obviously there is a reason it hasn't been done. Most likely because nobody gives a shit.

Dave wants to share the information with a bunch of techies at beyond3d, what the hell is the problem?

 

[DopeyFish]

Doube, you're a moron.

Microsoft owns the IP. ATI engineers spoke with Dave about EVERYTHING. Not everything about the Xenos GPU is revealed yet and as such Dave is only allowed to talk about certain things.

Therefore, he sent in his article to ATI so that they will tell him what has to be removed as it would violate the NDA. (between ATI and Microsoft specifically, and considering that ATI wants to have a healthy relationship with microsoft moving forward, this would be considered a VERY BAD THING)

There is no modification to the article beyond saying what can and cannot be printed. The engineers themselves do not know what exactly is considered to be talkable subjects which is why the article was sent into the ATI PR department.

edit: And your avatar is over the size limit of what the ToS states. 150 KB maximum.

 

[dorio]

Why waste your time arguing with a douche.

 

[Wunderchu]

What the hell is the point of this argument?

I'm sure they CAN release the information. Whether they would actually take the time and money that goes into writing a paper is the question. Obviously there is a reason it hasn't been done. Most likely because nobody gives a shit.

Dave wants to share the information with a bunch of techies at beyond3d, what the hell is the problem?

no kidding....


I also don't see how that argument got so heated..........


Dave wanted some info. on Xenos to write an article .. in this thread ( http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23138 ), Dave mentions that first he asked Bob(from ATI), but the depth some of the questions Dave was asking were a little beyond Bob's knowledge, so then it was arranged for Dave to meet with some "senior architects" from ATI .. (Dave even asked Beyond3D forum goers what they were wondering about with regards to Xenos, here: http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23232 ), ATI let Dave speak freely with some people who actually designed the chip, Dave wrote the article, and now ATI PR are filtering out anything that MS / ATI does not want revealed ......


also, DaveBaumann runs a 3D technology enthusiast site..... so therefore, AFAIK, DaveBaumann is also no more associated with ATI then with, say, NVIDIA .. and he is even less associated with MS, Sony and Nintendo, and so he basically has no reason to be biased one way or another..

 

[Doube D]

Doube, you're a moron.

Microsoft owns the IP. ATI engineers spoke with Dave about EVERYTHING. Not everything about the Xenos GPU is revealed yet and as such Dave is only allowed to talk about certain things.

Therefore, he sent in his article to ATI so that they will tell him what has to be removed as it would violate the NDA. (between ATI and Microsoft specifically, and considering that ATI wants to have a healthy relationship with microsoft moving forward, this would be considered a VERY BAD THING)

There is no modification to the article beyond saying what can and cannot be printed. The engineers themselves do not know what exactly is considered to be talkable subjects which is why the article was sent into the ATI PR department.

edit: And your avatar is over the size limit of what the ToS states. 150 KB maximum.

Lol, the king of the xbots and one of the up and commers dorio calling me names. Good job kids, fight for your man.

p.s., dopey, I know the x360 is making you ooze from orifices you didn't know you have, but again, READING COMPREHENSION. Learn to read, and then open your mouth. None of the crap you wrote has ANY bearing on what I said. Also, I’m sure using personal slurs is also against the TOS…. My response was directed at your buddy, not you. So buzz off and get a life while you are at it instead of checking avatar sizes. You are simply pathetic.

 

[Doube D]

no kidding....


I also don't see how that argument got so heated..........


Dave wanted some info. on Xenos to write an article .. in this thread ( http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23138 ), Dave mentions that first he asked Bob(from ATI), but the depth some of the questions Dave was asking were a little beyond Bob's knowledge, so then it was arranged for Dave to meet with some "senior architects" from ATI .. (Dave even asked Beyond3D forum goers what they were wondering about with regards to Xenos, here: http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23232 ), ATI let Dave speak freely with some people who actually designed the chip, Dave wrote the article, and now ATI PR are filtering out anything that MS / ATI does not want revealed ......


also, DaveBaumann runs a 3D technology enthusiast site..... so therefore, AFAIK, DaveBaumann is also no more associated with ATI then with, say, NVIDIA .. and he is even less associated with MS, Sony and Nintendo, and so he basically has no reason to be biased one way or another..

Hey listen, I never said anything about the man in question w/ regard to his personal allegiances. What I said was that by having to clear information with the company whose product he is going to critique, he is (IMO) compromising the authenticity of said critique. After all, what if ATi believed that all the potential weaknesses of the chip are to be considered proprietary information not worthy for mere mortals to read about? That is why many journalists have a NO NDA policy (what is said is written). You can choose to take everything he writes about as gospel, fine by me. I was stating MY stance on the issue. The rest of this argument was ignited when shogmaster started throwing around slurs and bs he couldn't back up.

 

[aaaaa0]

After all, what if ATi believed that all the potential weaknesses of the chip are to be considered proprietary information not worthy for mere mortals to read about?

If that was the case, then they wouldn't have told Dave any sort of detailed information, and instead of a frank discussion with a couple high-level architects, Dave would have just gotten a couple of PR-written white papers and maybe a Q&A with a technical PR flack.

Until ATI has reason otherwise, they should treat Dave with good faith, and I don't see any reason why Dave shouldn't be reasonably cooperative with ATI either, until they make some unreasonable requests.

 

[Davew49]

Lol, the king of the xbots and one of the up and commers dorio calling me names. Good job kids, fight for your man.

My gosh, are you like 12 years old? This is a grade school attempt at best.

You are simply pathetic.

I am sure the same can be said for you? I mean when you think about it you are the one attacking Dave Baumann and his credibility/integrity with your baseless argument. Why don't you go over to Beyond3D forums post your assertions there and see what the man says about it himself, and the reason for sending the article to ATI before publication. I know it's been pretty much spelled out for you here, but for some reason you just can't comprehend it.

DAVEW

 

[Doube D]

My gosh, are you like 12 years old? This is a grade school attempt at best.

Funny you write that in response to my comment, but not in response to dopey’s (which started with a blatant insult directed at me). So don't bother patronizing my "grade school attempt" with a thinly veiled and poorly delivered one of your own.

I am sure the same can be said for you? I mean when you think about it you are the one attacking Dave Baumann and his credibility/integrity with your baseless argument. Why don't you go over to Beyond3D forums post your assertions there and see what the man says about it himself, and the reason for sending the article to ATI before publication. I know it's been pretty much spelled out for you here, but for some reason you just can't comprehend it.

First, I didn't ATTACK him. I questioned the manner he gathers and filters his data. Second, like I previously said, it was MY opinion. You want to believe every word of it, be my guest. Third, what the man has to say about it is irrelevant. The fact is that the information he is going to write about has been filtered by ATi PR. To ME, that takes away legitimacy. The rest of GA and beyond 3d can think of it what however they want.

 

[DopeyFish]

Funny you write that in response to my comment, but not in response to dopey’s (which started with a blatant insult directed at me). So don't bother patronizing my "grade school attempt" with a thinly veiled and poorly delivered one of your own.

It wasn't an insult, it was the truth.

I read every post up to the current point in time... 5 different people telling you WHY it is the way it is including quotes from the source and you still don't get it. Afterwards you proceed to attack DaveBaumann's legitimacy as a writer based on a poor assumption made by an already established and quite repetitive GA Xbox troll.

 

[Doube D]

It wasn't an insult, it was the truth.

I read every post up to the current point in time... 5 different people telling you WHY it is the way it is including quotes from the source and you still don't get it. Afterwards you proceed to attack DaveBaumann's legitimacy as a writer based on a poor assumption made by an already established and quite repetitive GA Xbox troll.

LOL. I swore I wouldn't keep responding but this is just too amusing. First, if I am a troll, then surely most people would agree that you are the KING of trolls. Second, I could careless if 5 or 50 different people tell me what they consider to be the reason for x and y. I don't base my views on what others (most of whom have an obvious agenda, you included) have to say. You go tell Galileo what an idiot he was for challenging divine dogma.... Finally, I didn't attack Dave; I don't know him well enough to care to attack him. I questioned the legitimacy of his upcoming expose. If that is too hard for you to grasp, then I suggest you scurry back and enlighten the remaining violators of their impending doom as consequence of avatar size violations.

 

[Project Midway]

You are calling people xbots left and right, and not just in this thread. Of course that affects your credibility and increases your chances to be considered as a douche.

 

[DopeyFish]

LOL. I swore I wouldn't keep responding but this is just too amusing. First, if I am a troll, then surely most people would agree that you are the KING of trolls. Second, I could careless if 5 or 50 different people tell me what they consider to be the reason for x and y. I don't base my views on what others (most of whom have an obvious agenda, you included) have to say. You go tell Galileo what an idiot he was for challenging divine dogma.... Finally, I didn't attack Dave; I don't know him well enough to care to attack him. I questioned the legitimacy of his upcoming expose. If that is too hard for you to grasp, then I suggest you scurry back and enlighten the remaining violators of their impending doom as consequence of avatar size violations.

So questioning the validity of ones writing isn't attacking them? And exactly how am I a troll? Enlighten me! Please!

Well a troll against baseless arguments and general stupidity... i suppose. I want the truth. Dave Baumann will give me the truth. Sure the article will be shortened but it's accuracy will remain entirely intact. You simply don't understand why it has to be filtered. Maybe it fits in an announcement schedule? (So that Nvidia doesn't go "hey! That's a great idea! *steals idea*) Maybe it's because certain patents haven't been cleared yet? Remember one thing. It's not up to ATI on what to release and what not to release as public information. It's up to Microsoft. ATI designed the GPU with Microsoft. There is elements of the design which Microsoft has included. Eventually in time (meaning within the next month or two) everything about the design will be revealed, but it's not meant to happen just yet.

Either way the point still stands and the fact remains. You have no argument, you had none to begin with.

 

[Doube D]

You are calling people xbots left and right, and not just in this thread. Of course that affects your credibility and increases your chances to be considered as a douche.

The people I have called xbots are (to the best of my recollection):

Shogmaster
DopeyFish
dorio

And guess what, they are. Go do a post history. Mind you I don't and have never claimed myself an impartial observer. I have openly declared my preference for sony and the ps3. So if you want to explain my refusal to believe ATi's word on this account, go for it. You certainly are in the right to do so. But to take the word of people on the other side of the fence as unbiased fact is equally shortsighted.

So questioning the validity of ones writing isn't attacking them? And exactly how am I a troll? Enlighten me! Please!

You see dopey, I never questioned the validity (read, truth) to what he is going to write about. I never said he is going to LIE about anything. However, his information is going to be filtered by ATi (you know, those black lines you see on classified documents). Thus he may not be able to tell the whole truth and may indeed be forced to take out the potential downfalls of the architecture. Thus any conclusions he would draw would IN MY OPINION be less LEGITIMATE. That means it takes away from the power/weight of his final conclusions.

Well a troll against baseless arguments and general stupidity... i suppose.

lol, no comment.

I want the truth. Dave Baumann will give me the truth. Sure the article will be shortened but it's accuracy will remain entirely intact. You simply don't understand why it has to be filtered. Maybe it fits in an announcement schedule? (So that Nvidia doesn't go "hey! That's a great idea! *steals idea*) Maybe it's because certain patents haven't been cleared yet? Remember one thing. It's not up to ATI on what to release and what not to release as public information. It's up to Microsoft. ATI designed the GPU with Microsoft. There is elements of the design which Microsoft has included.

Again, you can give me a thousand and one reasons why it "has to be filtered." The fact is that it IS BEING FILTERED. And it is being filtered by the very company that made the chip and in whose interest it is to pose it in the best possible light. So unless you can PROVE TO ME that ATi PR are not in ANYWAY going to have him amend sections that could put a bad light on the product, your point is mute. If ATi/MS is so worried, they should just say, hey guys, no info till the product ships and the patent inc is dry.

Either way the point still stands and the fact remains. You have no argument, you had none to begin with.

Wow man, you got me there. Im, umm, beaten. sniff

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

Urgh, Douche D, you're wrong. Admit it and move on. Start acting your age (Which I assume by the redundancy of your posts, is over 12).

 

[Doube D]

Urgh, Douche D, you're wrong. Admit it and move on. Start acting your age (Which I assume by the redundancy of your posts, is over 12).

ahh, wolves hunt in packs I guess. Yawn, you bore me. Oh and your last sentence makes no sense. I suggest taking english 101 over, for your own sake. As for me, I’ll take my 12 year old ass out of this thread now and enjoy a nice cup of coffee.

 

[sangreal]

Dave B. wouldn't release the article if ATi tried to remove his criticisms. Regardless, I don't expect to see much in the way of criticism. The article is likely to be strictly informative about the technology, not about how amazing or terrible it is. B3d is a very technical site.

 

[Doube D]

Dave B. wouldn't release the article if ATi tried to remove his criticisms. Regardless, I don't expect to see much in the way of criticism. The article is likely to be strictly informative about the technology, not about how amazing or terrible it is. B3d is a very technical site.

Hehe, sorry, my last 1 I promise. but umm, a Da Vinci Code fan? If so, I really suggest you read (if you haven't already) Angels and Daemons. Much better book if you ask me.

 

[Davew49]

You see dopey, I never questioned the validity (read, truth) to what he is going to write about.

You know, wtf is up w/ that guy anyway? He is going to publish a paper on the xenos and tell us all about it.... but has sent a copy to ati henchmen to be approved first? LOL, so let me get this straight, are we supposed to believe his final published work as legit and unbiased? Bah. Looks like we’ll get PR bs until the consoles are released and geeks start breaking into them hands on, w/ no NDAs or money hats to worry about.

Hmmm, not to beat a dead horse, well I guess I am. It sure seemed that you were attacking the "validity" of what Dave Baumann has been working on for the last couple of weeks. I mean you even start of with "WTF" and then Bring in a crude reference to "money hats" of course maybe you were talking about those so evil ATI henchmen.

I think Abominable is correct, time for you, all of us to move on. This thread is pretty much complete at this point I would think.

DAVEW

 

[dorio]

Too bad his fanboy ramblings derailed the more interesting topic of the xgpu only having 3 pipes.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Yeah, because once the so powerful geeks get their hands on the new console hardware, they'll be able to tell exactly what's going on in the GPU by just looking at it with a magnifying glass and a very tiny needle.
Sensitive stuff like this almost always needs to get a validation from the manufacturer so you get the numbers and facts straight. It does not (always) imply bias or anything else.

Blimblim is right. As a dev I wouldn't want some guy writing about my stuff and then it gets released and has inconsistencies or flat out blatant errors in it. There is no need for concern. It's a good thing he's checking with ATI.

 

[Stinkles]

What Doube is trying to say, IF YOU FUCKS WOULD JUST PAY ATTENTION TO THE MAN, is that he prefers some other console/company to the 360/MS.


Why is it so hard for you Nintendorks/Sonywhatevers/3DOlts to figure out?

Etc.

 

[akascream]

I trust Dave to put together a good article, he's just covering his ass. Why don't you wait to read it before claiming some kind of bias heh.

 

[3rdman]

Hey listen, I never said anything about the man in question w/ regard to his personal allegiances. What I said was that by having to clear information with the company whose product he is going to critique, he is (IMO) compromising the authenticity of said critique. After all, what if ATi believed that all the potential weaknesses of the chip are to be considered proprietary information not worthy for mere mortals to read about? That is why many journalists have a NO NDA policy (what is said is written). You can choose to take everything he writes about as gospel, fine by me. I was stating MY stance on the issue. The rest of this argument was ignited when shogmaster started throwing around slurs and bs he couldn't back up.

I might be repeating what others said but, you're not getting it. R500 is special (according to DeanoC) and is truly Next-Gen in terms of what its doing. No other chip out there can (apparantly) compare technologically to Xenos. In other words, Nvidia would LOVE to read as much about it as possible and possibly emulate what they did in future chips, hence the necessecity to keep certain information secret...duh.

There is more at stake here for ATI and MS than a mere numbers pissing contest. Xenos could be the first step to a new direction in GPU's both in consoles and PC's so why would you deny them their right to protect their IP's?