Wow, you won't believe this. The same member who made this thread also made the thread with the made up story about the bronies. So spreading unsourced, defamatory lies based on awful stereotypes about a male group that is a minority within a community is A-OK, but when a female group happens to be a minority within a community they must be protected to the point they can exclude members based on gender. My irony meter has hit max.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Sexism in the Star Citizen forums [Update: RSI responds]
- Thread starter Messofanego
- Start date
- Status
RicoTheMad
Banned
Sorry but I'm not minimizing anything. Your language made you appear agitated, and your responses to my post make it seem as if you believe I'm some sort of bigot, when that is very far from the truth. Please remember to separate me from whatever those forums and people are all about.
I believe the only way to truly have equality is to treat people as you would like to be treated. I have seen what separatist culture brings and it is never pretty or good. You do not get a better society by making others feel as bad as they made you feel for excluding you.
Well, this already happens at all forums, though necessarily allowing end-users to do it, while not unprecedented is fairly uncommon amongst business-run forums.
Wait, how do professional sports work at all. Why don't we have tall men not good enough for the NBA trying to take over the WNBA?
How about at least after the point sexism actually starts to be "history".
Star Citizen is practically a cult tbh. People pay literally hundreds/thousands of dollars for video game spaceships that haven't even been modeled yet. And god help you if you try to imply that Chris Roberts and his unproven development team are going to be able to deliver the bestest dream game ever like they've promised so far.
"Entire institution?" "Founded?" "Eggshells"?
What the fuck are you talking about?
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Somebody never saw Juwanna Mann.
OldMilwaukee
Banned
They'll have to get a sex change first. Juwanna Mann was a window into the future
A Link to the Past
Banned
It's really gross to see people suggest that a safe place for women is unfair. The responses in the thread proves that it needs to exist.
commanderpepper
Member
I don't think it's a bad idea for a girls only group. I have read the posts and I do see the problem on who can speak/ join the group that can arise. As for the group existing I don't think it's wrong for a group of people from a similar background to come together especially if that group feels under represented in a community. Come together to attempt to create a coherent message.
Yeah but the people in the poker tourney example didn't undergo a sex change.
Dragonborn
Member
Wait, I don't get it, how would other people even know they're female? Does the forum require that you disclose your gender because if it doesn't then why even bring it up.
A little perspective here, it's an internet forum for women away from the main boards where apparently "Thought Experiment: Rape in Space Necessary?" = totally fine but thread complaining about sexism is bannable. I can't blame them for wanting this.
The only thing this will lead to is allowing women an ability to talk amongst themselves in a safe environment and vocalise their thoughts a little better. There is no indication that such a forum will prevent women and men engaging in debate in the main community. In fact, being able to build up confidence in a safe environment is much more likely to lead to more constructive debate in the future.
Dynamics based on sex and gender are real, you can't pretend they don't exist. Would you have a problem with someone going out with their guy friends for a few beers? It's exactly the same principle, sometimes you want a particular dynamic.
word?
Minimizing language is extremely subversive and destructive. Oh, and also really patronizing.
block tower
Member
well legitimate skeletal/mass structure between women and men are why pro sports stay segregated, unlike high school sports, like wrestling, which are well known in being unisex, allowing male wrestlers and female wrestlers to compete against one another. more contanct sports, especially involving combat or heavy physical contact, sports like UFC or the NFL, base segregation on more specific differences between male and female biology. Ronda Jean Rousey and Miesha Tate can kick most mens' ass, but in the context of the UFC, male UFC figthers aren't the average man. based on skeletal structure and mass displacement, a male fighter of the same weight class as Rousey is going to deliver a lot more force than what Rousey could deliver. this is why male versus female fighting will probably never happen. while weighing the same and having the same skills might make a male and female fighter even on paper, it'd be unfair in the sense that the male biology is designed differently form the of the female biology, causing an unfair advantage. that isn't to say that in reality Rousey couldn't destroy another male fighter in her weight-class because she can.
The person also said "you seemed agitated" so I guess "calm down" is the absolute best way of handling it rather than not assuming a person's thoughts or feelings based on a post on the internet.
What if I see women as equals but all the best posters are locked into this girls only group? Mods should do a better job but keeping locked forum thats girls only I don't agree with.
Having both sets of opinions make things better in my view. One group being locked in a members only forum will only bring resentment. Should we only get a black only version of xbox live because of fools using n word? That would be a step back and loss for everyone imo.
People can't let the clowns win. Don't run to a corner and sit. What if others want to hear the things they have to say? Just don't like this at all. Are schools better split by race or sex? My thought is no.
RicoTheMad
Banned
I do actually have issues with your scenario actually. I have seen people feel hurt because they were inherently excluded from a fun friend hang out simply because they were born with a different sex than the required for that evening.
That's my whole point really. Why not let the girls/guys tag along to your night out and discuss what you wanted regardless? If they find themselves not interested in the conversation, then hey, no harm done, they know for next time.
I have never personally done an "x night out" sort of thing. I pretty much tend to invite everyone whose company I enjoy to whatever I do
Sorry, but when someone uses swearing on a post on the internet when responding to me, I tend to believe there's some animosity and agitation. Remember that we can't hear your tone, so I am only able to interpret your text to the best of my ability.
Mithos
Member
Discriminating someone else should not be the way to make that happen though, it's EQUALLY BAD, and will only make the problem worse.
Discriminating someone else?
The question is why can't the women poker night say "only women can play" but the WNBA can.
I get that there's no advantage to either gender in poker.
A night out with your friends and a safe haven from gross bigotry on the internet are not the same thing.
Mithos
Member
Boys not allowed is just as bad as Girls not allowed.
It's not the same
OldMilwaukee
Banned
separate but equal went over real well the first time
Smdh please tell me this is sarcasm.
Basically the entire world is a boys club, dude. Boys not allowed is not "just as bad" as girls not allowed.
If you approach the issue with no nuance, no knowledge of history and no knowledge of ongoing bigotry and marginalization, I guess you'd be right.
I feel that, regardless of whether girls have a right to have a girls-only server / group / forum / league / whatever, this is not really the solution to the underlying problem.
The real solution is heavy moderation on social interactions, cracking down on sexist comments and behavior. Of course online games may not have the resources to do this correctly but that does not mean they can throw their hand up in the air and do nothing.
The real solution is heavy moderation on social interactions, cracking down on sexist comments and behavior. Of course online games may not have the resources to do this correctly but that does not mean they can throw their hand up in the air and do nothing.
staticneuron
Member
At least the rape thread wasn't about females being raped, just your avatar. When putting it forth that way the poster made it seem genderless. So while it still sounds like a messed up idea, I don't think it was aimed at the female posters. Also the first responses to the sex in space thread show that the forum is hard core sci fi.
But there is nothing inherently wrong with discussing those two topics because it revolves around questions about human nature and what is a high possibility for happening in space.
Space bikinis.... are just a silly idea.
block tower
Member
i had to edit my response a bit to include why, refer back to my previous post thats been edited. mainly physical contact, albeit violent or physical contact. to be blunt Lisa Leslie a WNBA star could've never competed at the level someone like Kobe Bryant plays at. that's not a sexist remark, that's just fact. Kobe Bryant, whether due to his physical biology or natural talent, plays at a higher level of basketball than Lisa Leslie. the WNBA would likely want to retain the league being all women to keep any women in the sport at all. most low level NBA players are head and shoulders above most WNBA players, if the WNBA were to allow men into the league you would see the WNBA quickly transom into the NBA#2. so to keep it exclusionary is to allow women the opportunity to play basketball at the pro level among other women.
OldMilwaukee
Banned
what barf. 1st world women can come back and complain legitimately when Boko Haram carries them off in the night at $12 a pop
Very true highschool boys teams have beaten womens olympic teams in hockey and soccer. Letting males in Wnba would push women out.
Womens bball plays with smaller ball and shorter 3 point line also.
Imagine the outrage if someone made a white only group? There's no need to segregate the community.
The entire forums should be a safe place for women if the moderators do their job and idiots will get banned so I don't buy needing a "safe place". If someones dumb enough to troll someone for being a woman a seperate thread ain't gonna stop em
The entire forums should be a safe place for women if the moderators do their job and idiots will get banned so I don't buy needing a "safe place". If someones dumb enough to troll someone for being a woman a seperate thread ain't gonna stop em
Mithos
Member
Then I guess looking on it your way, the currently ongoing reverse racism in South Africa is A-OK, because of "history".
This comparison is never really valid and anyone making it is being willingly obtuse about the ongoing history of women and bigotry.
Mate, posts like that are part of the problem.
Indeed.
Oh for fucks sake.
Have a good argument guys, I'm off to bed. Hope for better things tomorrow.
LumpOfCole
Member
I have seen firsthand in multiple MMOs that women are constantly "M'lady-ed" and constantly hit-on by males in game. It's a Fedora Frenzy out there for females. I had a lady coworker that is pretty involved in EVE that, when discovered she was female by a corp officer, was offered a plane ticket to a European country to live with him because "she was the perfect woman" - you know, since she too played EVE.
I don't think it helps process society and communities by having exclusive groups, but you know what, I get 100% why some women would want to only play with other women. I say let them have it.
I don't think it helps process society and communities by having exclusive groups, but you know what, I get 100% why some women would want to only play with other women. I say let them have it.
I see no problem with a female only "guild" in a MMO. But I have one question:
Is the OP wanting a female only ingame guild, or is she (also)wanting a female-only forum section?
I ask because a lot of people in this gaf-thread is talking about forum sections, but I'm not sure where that comes from. The links in the OP doesn't work so I can't look into the details but based on all the text in the OP of this thread, I see no reason to believe that they're asking for a female only forum section.
*confused*
Is the OP wanting a female only ingame guild, or is she (also)wanting a female-only forum section?
I ask because a lot of people in this gaf-thread is talking about forum sections, but I'm not sure where that comes from. The links in the OP doesn't work so I can't look into the details but based on all the text in the OP of this thread, I see no reason to believe that they're asking for a female only forum section.
*confused*
That's not really what I said at all and trying to paint me as apologetic to racism shows that you have very little to actually say on what we're actually discussing
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked