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The Final Bosman Show
- Thread starter iNvid02
- Start date
anchorman128
Member
Hahaha, I know easily my favorite part of the episode. Especially when Ludvig thinks to himself "I'm going to destroy you." I almost lost it.
Gentleman Jack
Member
Is he? Super Mario Galaxy was the first game I can remember with an extremely strong emotional hook in uncovering Rosalina's life story. If you skipped it you missed out on the best writing ever in a mainline mario game. I can fully understand someone having a strong bond with the character, stronger than any mario character since maybe Super Mario RPG. And what really hits you about Rosalina is her childhood and how it shaped who she is and where she is today. Watching baby Rosalina skid around on a go-kart kind of hollows all that out for a cheap cameo. I guess the expectations that Nintendo actually respect their characters in the spinoff games are too high, but it's worth mentioning that yes, Nintendo, you are able to make people form a complex emotional bond with your characters. That level of magic is worth respecting, even if some of us have given up on that from Nintendo.
Uncle Rupee
Banned
I also thought the metallic Peach was kind of... odd.
Metal Mario is odd. It's like, why? Why are these "special" characters? What's the point? It just seems lazy, like, hey we have a metallic shader let's throw it on the models and call it a day.
Metal Mario is odd. It's like, why? Why are these "special" characters? What's the point? It just seems lazy, like, hey we have a metallic shader let's throw it on the models and call it a day.
In these last 5 episodes or so Kyle has really worn his Nintendo love on his sleeve. Given the state of Nintendo, I kinda feel bad for him, since he clearly loves Nintendo stuff.
Looking forward t his E3 coverage. Surprised that he didn't mention the lack of Nintendo presser this year too.
Looking forward t his E3 coverage. Surprised that he didn't mention the lack of Nintendo presser this year too.
I was never really one to care about canon or continuity, but I can tell it means a lot to some people, Kyle included.
I do think it's weird that we got Baby Rosalina that doesn't really look anything like the young girl in the storybook, but it's not really something that bothers me beyond the fact that the babies are just smaller versions of characters already in the game and I'd rather have more unique characters instead.
I do think it's weird that we got Baby Rosalina that doesn't really look anything like the young girl in the storybook, but it's not really something that bothers me beyond the fact that the babies are just smaller versions of characters already in the game and I'd rather have more unique characters instead.
The baby Rosalina thing bugged me a bit, too. Not much, but I still thought about the same issue when I saw her. I thought, "Hey, maybe THAT Rosalina's mother is still alive." And then I felt bad.
But I guess I always felt like the Mario Kart and Sports and Party games are bizarre what-if scenarios, not actual events that happen to Mario and his friends. I mean, it's not like Mario and Luigi are actually getting their friends together and inviting Bowser over to race karts with them, right? "Oh, and let's also invite baby versions of ourselves."
But I guess I always felt like the Mario Kart and Sports and Party games are bizarre what-if scenarios, not actual events that happen to Mario and his friends. I mean, it's not like Mario and Luigi are actually getting their friends together and inviting Bowser over to race karts with them, right? "Oh, and let's also invite baby versions of ourselves."
If Warner Brothers were doing a DC Universe Kart Racing game, I don't think I'd really care about a Baby Batman or Kid Batman player character. I wouldn't think that it cheapens or hollows out the pathos and tragedy of the Bruce Wayne/Batman story. Cramming all these characters into a nonsensical kart racer already cheapens them anyhow. At that point you're already scraping the bottom of the barrel for an extra buck, and asking your fans to ignore any kind of established continuity in exchange for the pleasure of seeing some beloved characters whiz around a track.
When I think of disrespect for characters or mythology, I tend to think about the lowest moments of the Star Wars franchise. Games like Super Bombad Racing and Star Wars Kinect's dance mode, where they treat the characters of the series as little more than dumb meaningless cartoons to be molded into whatever kind of game they want to make.
Smiles and Cries
Member
I like the ending
but seriously baby rosalina is going to piss off only those who invested into the charms of that story book about her life and how she lost her parents also the hair color is all wrong
TBH Baby Rosalina is my main in MK8 as soon as I unlock her
I don't take Mario Kart seriously as canon besides Mario Universe has no real canon
but seriously baby rosalina is going to piss off only those who invested into the charms of that story book about her life and how she lost her parents also the hair color is all wrong
TBH Baby Rosalina is my main in MK8 as soon as I unlock her
I don't take Mario Kart seriously as canon besides Mario Universe has no real canon
Tiu Neo
Member
Nintendo gave us the Zelda Timeline. Now we want the Mario Timeline.
Smashman45
Member
I get what he's saying about respecting characters and what-not. The Buzz Lightyear thing was quite interesting. But a baby form of Rosalina being in a non-sensical and silly kart racer unrelated to the Mario "canon" doesn't really bother me. This doesn't really retcon Rosie's backstory, considering its an unrelated spinoff. Pink Gold Peach......is just strange. All I have to say about that. XD
That ending was definitely something. =P
That ending was definitely something. =P
Otakumegane
Member
Ahahaha those endings. Really wish he wouldn't use them everytime so they get stale though, I want to enjoy them for a bit longer.
MisterGrey3000
Member
Lol
I know, right?
Anyways...I don't really care about Baby Rosalina( She's pretty damn adorable.) or Pink Gold Peach existing when the freakin' Koopalings are in the game. They're worth a million Funky Kongs, Wigglers, and Petey Piranhas.
Also, I don't understand the idea of wanting a lot of "world building" in a franchise as nonsensical as Super Mario. Miyamoto has stated multiple times that Mario, and friends can be anything, or be anywhere they want them to be(Kind of like Mickey Mouse, and his friends.) I don't think it's disrespectful seeing as they flat out state things like that.
People have explained a few times that the reason for this "lazy" characters is to have many versions of popular characters in different weight classes. I prefer having different characters but it makes some sense to allow people who like Mario to use a heavy Mario, a middle Mario or a light Mario.
Yeah, but this Gold/Metal crap is as lazy as it gets. Why not have tanooki suit Mario? Or frog suit Mario? They can't even be bothered to put a different outfit on existing characters.
So clone Mario? Because the "regular" can use these suits, as they're basically clothing. So we would have Mario racing his clone who is using different clothes.
"I can tolerate Mario racing a baby version of himself, or even an alternate version of himself which is made of solid metal, but Mario racing Mario in a different outfit? That's crossing the line for me, pal!"
Baby is ok because of M&L: Partners in Time, Metal Mario is not the best thing, but atleas makes a fraction of more sense than Mario in a suit.
I can accept Metal Mario if only because he was a boss in Super Smash Bros.
Pink Gold Peach is unnacceptable.
I agree with Bosman about Baby Rosalina but the design is just too darn adorable for me to hate outright.
This. I love Bosman, but he obsesses over some strange stuff. I'm a stickler for detail/respect in games, but sometimes it just seems like a weird thing to hinge an entire episode on.
Yeah. I'm not okay with PG Peach. Seems so random and out of place. At least Bosman made a nice plot for her existence.
How does Metal Mario or Gold Peach make "more sense" than alternate outfits (which are utterly commonplace in every single other character-based competitive videogame)?
If we've reached a point where time-traveling babies are acceptable, then why not assume every alternate version of Mario is from a different time period?
TheShampion
Member
Hearing the Bosman getting riled about this sort of stuff is honestly pretty funny to me, but even if I find it funny, it is only because there is a kernel of truth in what he says. Getting stuck on the semantics like "canon" misses the point. The point is that characters either need to be treated with respect, or thrown out. Rehashing characters time and time again and then trying to pretend that there is no continuity is disingenuous at best, and manipulative at worst. Nintendo either needs to ditch the baggage, or actually try to do something with these characters. I rather go with the former, but that is me.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
Fun ep. These character variants seem real cheap and lazy to me. It just highlights even more that the Mario off shoots should open it up to other Nintendo characters. And Rosalina is totally Nintendos lightning.
I don't think this will be a popular line of thought but maybe Nintendo was not really respecting their characters or their IP by trying to insert this tragic Rosalina character into a universe that is mostly about childish goofy slapstick whimsy. The sudden insertion of pathos into a childish cartoon-world feels weird and abrupt.
It's for this reason that we all hated those 80's/90's sitcoms that always tried to do a "very special episode" about drug/alcohol abuse or child molestation. It was jarring to have very frightening real world topics suddenly intrude on an otherwise upbeat silly TV show. Ironically those shows often did it in the same slipshod way that Mario did -- by inventing an entirely new character out of left field to be the victim of some horrible crime or circumstance, and then making the principal recurring characters give moral speeches about it.
Sometimes it's best to stick with what you're good at, rather than trying to insert some horrible, sobering realities into what's ostensibly a comedy:
It's for this reason that we all hated those 80's/90's sitcoms that always tried to do a "very special episode" about drug/alcohol abuse or child molestation. It was jarring to have very frightening real world topics suddenly intrude on an otherwise upbeat silly TV show. Ironically those shows often did it in the same slipshod way that Mario did -- by inventing an entirely new character out of left field to be the victim of some horrible crime or circumstance, and then making the principal recurring characters give moral speeches about it.
Sometimes it's best to stick with what you're good at, rather than trying to insert some horrible, sobering realities into what's ostensibly a comedy:
That was really silly episode. I liked the storybook plot of SMG but I don't give a rat's ass how Nintendo exploits its characters. :lol Who cares about Baby Rosalina. Really silly.
The Toy Story 3 stuff was interesting, I hadn't really though about that. It truly makes no sense.
The Toy Story 3 stuff was interesting, I hadn't really though about that. It truly makes no sense.
ElectricKaibutsu
Member
lol, yeah, that's messed up.
I haven't thought about that in a loooong time. That... was not handled well.
Hurt and Scared
Member
Another great episode so weird knowing there's other people who liked the first galaxy over the second considering the second is universally considered the superior game.
Plus I loved Rosalina's storybook
Plus I loved Rosalina's storybook
I agree with the overall point he made but I'm not sure if I really agree with any of the examples he gave. I didn't really feel like the switch for Buzz was disrespecting his character, because I didn't feel like it gave any less weight or importance to what the Buzz from the first two movies did. I didn't think that Baby Rosalina is disrespecting the character of Rosalina because her being a baby form doesn't negate any of the emotional impact the story in SMG had. IDK I wasn't really feeling this episode (sorry Bosman, I love the show overall).
Another great episode so weird knowing there's other people who liked the first galaxy over the second considering the second is universally considered the superior game.
Plus I loved Rosalina's storybook
I take it like this: Galaxy 2 was the better game, but Galaxy 1 had the better universe.
If that makes sense.
For the record, I don't think Rosalina is as bad as Ctrl-Alt-Delete's miscarriage storyline. But it's still a nice example of why it's best to stick to your core competencies and your IP's established tone, rather than randomly inserting some thought-provoking tragedy.
Bosman's talk also reminded me of Casper the Friendly Ghost. For over 50 years, the comic book avoided ever talking about the fact that Casper was once a human child that died some kind of tragic and horrible death. According to WikiPedia, the publishers posited the idea that Casper was actually a ghost-child, whose ghost parents reproduced. His parents might have died and become ghosts, but Casper was a ghost from birth so there's no need to concern yourself with how he died.
Then when the Casper movie finally got made in 1995, they actually decided to address Casper's origins. The film asserts that Casper was a child who went out playing in the snow and died of pneumonia -- pretty grim. Like with Mario, it was a weird attempt to put tragedy into a lighthearted and comedic IP. Since I'm not a longtime Casper fanboy I can't say how the fanbase reacted to this revelation, but I imagine it was not well-received.
I actually like Galaxy 1 just in general as a game more. I felt like the levels were more varied. Also I thought Galaxy 2 was a little too
difficult
I'm casual
That being said the hub world and progression system was also a big part of why I like Galaxy 1 more as well.
Both are pretty great games for similar reasons I feel. Galaxy 2 is mostly just more of Galaxy 1, when I think of a specific level from one of those games I don't generally think of it as "that level from Super Mario Galaxy," or "that level from Super Mario Galaxy 2," I just think of it as "a level from one of the Super Mario Galaxy games".
fvng
Member
haha is there really a Zelda timeline? I bet it's total hogwash. It would be less insulting to just say all the games in the series are independent from eachother.
After Ocarina of Time there's a three-way split, one for child Link, one for Adult Link, and one where the player gets a "Game Over".
I'm serious.
I'm serious.
MisterGrey3000
Member
lol
fvng
Member
hahahaha
I guess I can see how galaxy 2 levels made it the "better game," but the whole traditional follow the line thing really turned me off. It's not preventing me from enjoying Mario 3D world right now, but I'll admit I'm a little disappointed they didn't go with a hub world game instead.
Also, I thought the rosalina story was actually really well handled. I felt like it made sense in the context of the game, especially since they kind of made rosalina mysterious throughout the game
Also, I thought the rosalina story was actually really well handled. I felt like it made sense in the context of the game, especially since they kind of made rosalina mysterious throughout the game
Earthpainting
Member
The bonus bit is a bit of a joke of course, but it says plenty about the people who came up with it. I can relate to the need of internally sound logic. You can go as fantasy or outlandish as you'd like. I can suspend my disbelief a lot. However anything you establish has to stick around, and the world gets framed by these introduced elements. It's why the speculative element of sci-fi and alternate universe fiction are so appealing to many. They can test the boundaries worlds, characters and ideologies in interesting ways, no matter how serious or silly they seem.
I'm the same. The hub world, little story, newness and tamer difficulty is the reason why I prefer the first game over the second.
Tiu Neo
Member
Well, we knew how some games connected to others, already, and it was clear that there was some kind of timeline. That, and there were heavy debates between the fanbase about it. Maybe we would be better without it, but I'm relived that Nintendo revealed that and ended with those silly discussions.
The "all the older games only happen if OoT's Link dies" part of the timeline is bullshit.