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[McDougles]

I feel like the "controversy" surrounding this game won't end until after the game is released.

Next stop: "I never said that was Pagan Min in the trailer," followed by "I'm bummed that Pagan Min isn't a female," followed by pages upon pages of speculation whether or not Pagan Min is a player-avatar due to his androgynous features.

 

[so1337]

I think you should be free to create any kind of character you want.

cold murder of commandants is a classic gay move

I'd believe it.

 

[mbpm1]

I feel like the "controversy" surrounding this game won't end until after the game is released.

Far Cry 4 sure is controversial.

Probably gonna sell like hotcakes. Must be planned.

 

[WonderCheese]

Phew, I was super worried this game was going to perpetuate that old "gay people are always landing in helicopters and stabbing people in the neck with a pen" stereotype. Crisis averted.

 

[Grakl]

killerisjed is gay, good luck calling him homophobic for thinking ubisoft was making a stereotypically gay character

Oh my god, will yall stop it with this?

LGBT folks have a history of being represented poorly in media. It doesn't make anyone a homophobe to see those common stereotypes and assume the creator was going to make the character gay.

This point of view reminds me of the people who respond to allegations of racism by saying "if you thought it was racist then you're the real racist!".

exactly

 

[erawsd]

After seeing the actual reveal trailer it was obvious the guy wasn't a gay stereotype. At worst he's got some weird eurotrash vibe about him. However, I still think the design is heavily influenced by the Joker.

 

[plasmawave]

He was wearing pink. That's literally the only reason people thought he was gay.

Exactly.

 

[Kinsei]

I think you should be free to create any kind of character you want.

Sure, but that doesn't mean people can't complain about it, and infer things about the person(s) who created said character.

 

[blame space]

the joker was gay?

 

[War Raichu]

so he's not gay

he's not white

are people just going to default to complaining about the main character not being a woman now?

 

[Krusenstern]

wait, the joker was gay?

erawsd is speaking more about their fancy attire and unpredictable character I think.

 

[Green Biker Dude]

i like how the sexual orientation of a videogame character is somehow relevant to the quality of the game these days. you'd think as time passed, gaming journalism couldn't get any worse

maybe in 5 years i'll hear about how the lead designer for the new ubisoft game isn't married, so i shouldn't be buying his games

 

[BananaSprinkles]

the joker was gay?

Well... he did have one of the hottest female characters in the DC universe chasing after him and all he could ever focus on was Batman.

 

[Hyun Sai]

the joker was gay?

If he wears pink, he is.

 

[blame space]

is fancy attire and unpredictable character gay?

 

[Demon Ice]

People shall now be offended that there are no LGBT characters in the game.


And 90% of them will be the same people that were offended by the thought of an antagonist being gay. Because being offended is now a hobby.

 

[Capra]

This whole thing is stupid. How is an evil character being gay negative to gays anyway? Good lord. Evil straight people don't really matter.

The worry was that since there are so few gay characters in games and other media already (though we've been making some progress within the past few years) there would be negative connotations to having a gay character in a widely-played AAA game also be a badly-written psychopath.

You also have to consider that equating homosexuality with villainy is a pretty old trope in fiction. There's a common trend in media where being gay is treated as a "symptom" of villainy - as if being gay makes you inherently more perverted and immoral than straight folk... Incidentally, there's also a common trend to emphasize feminine traits in villainous characters. Since being gay is commonly misunderstood as making men more effeminate the two see a lot of overlap.

People calling out those who did jump to conclusions might understand things better if they considered how common these stereotypes are. Those who are often subjected to baseless stereotypes about themselves tend to be more sensitive to even the slightest suggestion of them... Yeah, it led to wild and baseless speculation here but that sensitivity is a direct result of living in a social climate that is often misunderstanding and prejudiced against a crucial and inseverable part of your identity... I don't even think I participated in that conversation but I won't apologize for worrying that he was gay and I don't think others should either.

 

[Deadbeat]

People shall now be offended that there are no LGBT characters in the game.


And 90% of them will be the same people that were offended by the thought of an antagonist being gay. Because being offended is now a hobby.

They determined they were offended by using the same stereotype that they criticize people for.

 

[Eppy Thatcher]

is fancy attire and unpredictable character gay?

Have you ever been to Copper Penny after 11:30 on a friday!!!???

edit for curiousity:
Most everyone seemed to enjoy/love Vaas in the last game. As in his actions, character, psychopathy ... everything. People loved that dude. If he was gay would we all be bad people for liking the character because he's now a murdering sociopathic gay person? ....

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Its so typical that a non white person is the bad guy.

If serious, you DO realize that not a single character revealed so far in this game is white, right?

 

[Green Biker Dude]

People shall now be offended that there are no LGBT characters in the game.


And 90% of them will be the same people that were offended by the thought of an antagonist being gay. Because being offended is now a hobby.

your post is offending me. i'm starting a kickstarter campaign to stop this abuse

 

[Demon Ice]

They determined they were offended by using the same stereotype that they criticize people for.

Yep. That was the great irony of it.

"He's dressed in purple! He's probably GAY!"

Pretty sure one guy even jumped to that conclusion based off of the box art alone. I guess he thought the protagonist was sitting too flamboyantly or something.

 

[Grakl]

countdown until people post the stephen fry "offended" quote unironically

3, 2, 1 ...

 

[blame space]

you guys are doing this all wrong

 

[Deadbeat]

you guys are doing this all wrong

But Im too lazy to start a tumblr.

 

[shem935]

I'm sure this will end that discussion.

Spoiler

No it won't

 

[reptilescorpio]

Troy Baker is so hot right now

 

[Kinsei]

If serious, you DO realize that not a single character revealed so far in this game is white, right?

Of course he's not serious. Anyone that questions the status quo must be made fun off.

 

[daffy]

The worry was that since there are so few gay characters in games and other media already (though we've been making some progress within the past few years) there would be negative connotations to having a gay character in a widely-played AAA game also be a badly-written psychopath.

You also have to consider that equating homosexuality with villainy is a pretty old trope in fiction. There's a common trend in media where being gay is treated as a "symptom" of villainy - as if being gay makes you inherently more perverted and immoral than straight folk... Incidentally, there's also a common trend to emphasize feminine traits in villainous characters. Since being gay is commonly misunderstood as making men more effeminate the two see a lot of overlap.

People calling out those who did jump to conclusions might understand things better if they considered how common these stereotypes are. Those who are often subjected to baseless stereotypes about themselves tend to be more sensitive to even the slightest suggestion of them... Yeah, it led to wild and baseless speculation here but that sensitivity is a direct result of living in a social climate that is often misunderstanding and prejudiced against a crucial and inseverable part of your identity... I don't even think I participated in that conversation but I won't apologize for worrying that he was gay and I don't think others should either.

What made people think he would be badly written?

 

[shem935]

What made people think he would be badly written?

Assumptions

 

[Kinsei]

What made people think he would be badly written?

Because the story in Far Cry 3 was badly written tripe? Gameplay is awesome, but the story is shit.

 

[Pennywise]

What made people think he would be badly written?

Ubisoft...
At least, that would be my answer.

 

[shem935]

Because the story in Far Cry 3 was badly written tripe? Gameplay is awesome, but the story is shit.

Correct that the story was bad BUT....Vaas was excellent. That would get me excited for their next villain's writing at least.

 

[Kinsei]

Correct that the story was bad BUT....Vaas was excellent. That would get me excited for their next villain's writing at least.

Vass was awesome, but I can see why people might have been worried that he was a fluke.

I should also clarify that I never thought Pagan was gay. I thought the people who did were jumping to conclusions too early, but I understand their concern.

 

[Teeth]

LGBT folks have a history of being represented poorly in media. It doesn't make anyone a homophobe to see those common stereotypes and assume the creator was going to make the character gay.

But isn't this pre-condemning an individual based on the actions of a group of people they only tenuously belong to?

That sounds misguided.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Of course he's not serious. Anyone that questions the status quo must be made fun off.

Honestly can't tell if this comment is sarcasm or not, or who you're referring to in the second half of your response.

 

[Parapraxis]

Well thank God no one jumped to conclusions then.

" So often are gay and trans people only shown as villains or punchlines in games, so you can see how this could be problematic."
...I don't even....this is not even remotely true.
Who is this guy?

Well, I hope this topic and discussion can clear some stuff up, the whole "potentially" offensive projections people had from the start were childish and unfounded.

So what if FC4 had a gay (possibly non-white) villain, for me it is a non-issue, I was raised with gay people in my life and i'm proud to know and care for them.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

Every time I see something like this, I hear David Cage saying 'This industry needs to grow up.'

 

[Kinsei]

Honestly can't tell if this comment is sarcasm or not, or who you're referring to in the second half of your response.

Not sarcasm at all. I was referring to the fact that anyone who questions the state of minorities in video games is constantly made fun of and belittled. It's not as bad here on GAF, but it's still here.

 

[Trouble]

Game still has a healthy dose of white savior, though right? Wouldn't really be a Far Cry without it.

 

[thesuperfunk]

Who cares? ... as long as it's well written ...

 

[Monocle]

This whole thing is stupid. How is an evil character being gay negative to gays anyway? Good lord. Evil straight people don't really matter.

There used to be a very common trope in fiction where flamboyant gay characters were portrayed as villains / perverts / perverted villains, exploiting the ugliest stereotypes of gay people as disordered weirdos and rapists, relying on homophobia for cheap drama. It's very similar to the way Asian villains were designed to exploit and reinforce racism and xenophobia in the 20th century.

 

[ezekial45]

Game still has a healthy dose of white savior, though right? Wouldn't really be a Far Cry without it.

The main character is white, but he is actually from the country the game is set in. So he does have a cultural heritage in the space, unlike the other titles.

 

[RedStep]

The worry was that since there are so few gay characters in games and other media already (though we've been making some progress within the past few years) there would be negative connotations to having a gay character in a widely-played AAA game also be a badly-written psychopath.

You also have to consider that equating homosexuality with villainy is a pretty old trope in fiction. There's a common trend in media where being gay is treated as a "symptom" of villainy - as if being gay makes you inherently more perverted and immoral than straight folk... Incidentally, there's also a common trend to emphasize feminine traits in villainous characters. Since being gay is commonly misunderstood as making men more effeminate the two see a lot of overlap.

People calling out those who did jump to conclusions might understand things better if they considered how common these stereotypes are. Those who are often subjected to baseless stereotypes about themselves tend to be more sensitive to even the slightest suggestion of them... Yeah, it led to wild and baseless speculation here but that sensitivity is a direct result of living in a social climate that is often misunderstanding and prejudiced against a crucial and inseverable part of your identity... I don't even think I participated in that conversation but I won't apologize for worrying that he was gay and I don't think others should either.

The problem is when we jump from legitimate concern (ie "in my head I feel concern") to pre-emptive outrage strikes.

Even the two threads that came up previously start with "I see this thing and assume it might mean another thing". There is a world of difference between something being produced/released (even a trailer, demo, etc) that is offensive and should be addressed and just striking out blindly at what you think might offend you later. One of them is valuable and the other is literally worthless.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Game still has a healthy dose of white savior, though right? Wouldn't really be a Far Cry without it.

Doesn't he have asian parents? From the description in the OP anyway.

 

[HueyFreeman]

We should probably just forget this whole thing happened. The thread creators of the threads in question hopefully have come to their senses a bit and it can be put behind everyone, particularly the developers. I must say, it's just an odd awkward controversy to have come from nowhere at all.

As an aside, comparisons to the RE5 controversy are inept and inappropriate. The imagery in that game remains highly controversial regardless of the story justification. Capcom knew it too, hence the retooling with sheva

 

[stonesak]

 

[pa22word]

killerisjed is gay, good luck calling him homophobic for thinking ubisoft was making a stereotypically gay character

He stereotyped a character as gay simply for wearing pink and being flamboyant.

It may not mean he's homophobic, but it does prove how ignorantly narrow his worldview is. Stereotyping gays as pink wearing and super-flamboyant is incredibly insulting, and honestly he should feel ashamed for perpetuating such an ignorant stereotype.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Game still has a healthy dose of white savior, though right? Wouldn't really be a Far Cry without it.

He's Asian as well.

 

[Village]

So that makes him what? More acceptable? More appropriate? More interesting?

Gay Tony was over the top flamboyant, but his story was the best part of GTAIV.

He wasn't the villain, which is the stereotypical issue.