MaxwellGames
Banned
THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TOPIC!!!!!!
This is about the RUSSIANS SHOOTING DOWN A MALAYSIAN PLANE IN THE UKRAINE.
FUUUUCK.
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Malaysia Airlines flight en route from Amsterdam shot down over Ukraine; no survivors
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THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TOPIC!!!!!!
This is about the RUSSIANS SHOOTING DOWN A MALAYSIAN PLANE IN THE UKRAINE.
FUUUUCK.
BlastProcessing
Member
I have the feeling jimi_dini would love it if this thread spent the next 50 pages debating this point.
They didn't just think it up. They actually wrote an in-detail proposal, got it signed by their chairman and actually sent it to the Secretary of Defense. That's not a simple "thought crime".
Just think up a proposal to kill Obama, write it down, sign it and send it to the government. I wonder how they will see it. As "thought crime" or "terrorist plot". My bet is that you would get at least arrested.
Where did I write anything like that?
I added to a post, that replied to some "conspiracy theories are always false"-type of post.
TheRedSnifit
Member
"The Pentagon thought some shit up fifty years ago, so clearly they shot down the Malaysian airliner."
You only have no sound, I have huge playback problems, the stream just stops, play a few seconds an stop again for a minute. Unwatchable right now.
Assuming it is true, then the russians shot down that plane as much as america is killing all those innocent people in gaza since Israel is backed by the U.S. with its billions in military funding.
TheRedSnifit
Member
The general assumption is that actual Russian military personnel would have been needed to fire off the missiles. Whereas I doubt that the there were many Air Force pilots bombing Gaza.
We've had only cheap fake proof on it (the famous Cozack fiasco) and multiple second hand hearsay,just unverified noise.
Believe it ,if america had serious proof of it the case would be close.
It's reason enought to listen impartially to both sides :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AuZ1Ok3s_I
Because propaganda is very much alive on the west side too.
Kiev has la lot to loose and no reason to love anything slightly Russian , 17 Billion$ IMF is business .
Facts:
- Maiden is a coup ,and it broke every constitutionalities in Ukraine instantly.This gave legitimity to Putin to propose Crimea referendum.
This is the starting point , Because of another propaganda myth ,"Putin want to extent his empire towars west" is ignorant.
-Resistants against kiev coup is genuine.Real peoples,families citizens.They moslty want to stay Ukrainians .Certainly helped by Russia ,but nobody knows in what way (i suspect the only invisible to satelite way is improved visibility on kiev armie's activities).
The region is so heavily monitored,it's impossible to go unnoticed.
They will loose ,because much of them are not ready for active war,and more and more are leaving their home toward the only possibility of peaceful life around there.
Another funny fact : The exact casting of the transitionnal governement has been revealed by V.Nuland in his phone leak that and some monney invested in maiden project-Orange revolution 2.0).I wonder what would happen if the press were to decide it's a fascinating subject.
Seeing the recent past history of US foreign policy business around the world,people Should really know better.
Remember :For America, Foreign policy IS business.It's essentially Oligarchic.
lol, this is a troll right?
CHEEZMO;122023549 said:
i'm just wondering: if switzerland nuked another country tomorrow, would all the anti-american-posters in here be okay with it? i mean, the swiss haven't gone to war for a couple of centuries now, so there's plenty of killing to be done before matching the us' death toll, right?
MaxwellGames
Banned
See the bolded there?
FUCK OFF WITH THAT SHIT IN THIS THREAD.
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS TOPIC. NOTHING AT ALL.
Calm down. If you feel the need to type in caps lock and write the word fuck as a response, it's time to step away from the keyboard and do something else.
Source?
So there is proof now that rebels (I guess that's what you are talking about) a) definitely shot down the plane and b) that those exact rebels are "Russia-backed".
I just added information to one post about conspiracy theories on the previous page. If people would just have accepted that proven fact, I wouldn't have needed to reply multiple times. I won't anymore about this topic, because it's wasting time.
MaxwellGames
Banned
CHEEZMO™;122023549 said:
DING DING DING.. we have a winner!
Seriously, stop with the Russian apologistic nonsense. It rings very hollow.
The Russians fucked up big time and are now doing everything they can to deflect the heat.
BlastProcessing
Member
What, exactly, is your motivation for trying to make this thread about what the American government considered 50 years ago?
gutter_trash
Banned
Putin gonna Putin
let's keep this on the Present and what Putin has been up to since he took office.
Anyone asking for proof that Russia is backing the separatists only require to watch Putin backed RT news to see how they make up news to shift blame on the West. What news organization does this? Pro-Putin news, that's who
let's keep this on the Present and what Putin has been up to since he took office.
Anyone asking for proof that Russia is backing the separatists only require to watch Putin backed RT news to see how they make up news to shift blame on the West. What news organization does this? Pro-Putin news, that's who
Why not ban the guy bringing Gaza nonsense in here or people starting comparing this with drones?
I was not being serious. I replied to the truther dude.
Oh and Putin is a POS. Corrupt.
Partial Gamification
Banned
Vitaly Churkin speaking, UN SecCouncil
Because they aren't having a ranting melt down. In future, if you have questions concerning moderation, feel free to PM me, rather than discuss them in the thread, for which we usually ban.
TheRedSnifit
Member
- It was flying from west to east
- It was shot down over rebel territory
- It was shot down with a Russian missile system that had previously been used to shoot down Ukrainian transports
- Said Russian missile system is notoriously complex, and wouldn't have been handed off without military personnel to operate it
- After the plane was shot down, the rebels bragged about shooting down a Ukrainian transport
- Once it was revealed that the Malaysian flight had been shot down, the rebels deleted their boasts about shooting down a Ukrainian transport
Do you have any evidence that it was not shot down by separatists? At all?
evidence? It will take a few weeks to resolve this question.
Partial Gamification
Banned
I don't think the rep from Chad thanked the reps from RUS and USA. Diplomatic code-speak: "You're not helping."
Sam Powers might have gone a little overboard pressing Russian involvement, maybe not the best for moving toward assuring a swift investigation and a future resolution of the conflict.
Sam Powers might have gone a little overboard pressing Russian involvement, maybe not the best for moving toward assuring a swift investigation and a future resolution of the conflict.
TheRedSnifit
Member
It's really tempting to throw a Let Me Google That For You link here, but instead:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...joH4DA&usg=AFQjCNFDoOi7IlbTReQnm-ITJ8Npvjgqpg
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/pro-rus...r-claims-shoot-down-of-malaysia-airlines-jet/
It was? Last time I checked Ukraine said that all BUKs are in control of Ukraine.
http://odnastroka.ru/politics/5067-yarema-oproverg-zahvat-opolchencami-kompleksov-buk-i-s-300.html
The rebels shot down some airborne vehicles, but not from such a height and they didn't use a BUK-1 for those. It's simply not plausible, especially because you need plenty of well-trained people to operate a BUK-1 (it's actually multiple vehicles, not some rocket-launcher thingie that can be operated somewhat easily).
btw. the BUK-1 was manufactured in Russia, yes. But I don't know why this should matter. Ukraine owns lots of those and they are everywhere in Ukraine.
Exactly. I wrote about this yesterday or so. That's why it doesn't make sense that rebels used it. Unless of course there is a huge conspiracy going on and Russia trained them for months.
Or well maybe Russia sent in secret troops. But why should those well-trained troops shoot down a civilian airplane? Those would be experts and they would know what they are doing. They would definitely be able to identify a commercial airplane.
Of course with the new information the actual objective could have been to shoot down that Ukrainian military aircraft and they accidentally shot down the commercial airplane instead. Ukraine government lied about that, they said that there was no aircraft in the sky except for that airplane. I wonder why they would lie about it.
Which could easily be explained by the command structure and communication possibilites (actually the lack of that). Some rebels see something crashing down. Assume that it's Ukrainian military aircraft (because no commercial airplane should have flown over that area) and think that it's a success.
It's simply not so easy.
Yeah, what would you do if you imagined that you shot down Hitler's aircraft, but in fact some civilian aircraft came crushing down? What should they have done in that case? Add an update "Sry sad face, we thought it was an Ukrainian military aircraft".
Did I write anything like that in this whole thread? How do you come up with something like that?
Just look for my post from yesterday. I wrote down all the somewhat plausible or not so plausible causes. None of it was about US. And I even wrote that I assume that noone wanted to actually shoot it the civilian airplane down.
Oh and yes, the last possiblity was "something entirely different happened".
"most likely" is no evidence. We need a missile fragment or photos from a spy satellite.
speculawyer
Member
Really? You are going to cite Russian media for that claim?
Critical thinking skills seem lacking.
This is getting silly.
http://www.focus.de/politik/ausland...-malaysian-airlines-kommentar_id_5861396.html
German news source, still not good enough?
quick google translate
Because I noticed my error and found a correct one.
You want another one?
http://www.n-tv.de/politik/22-00-n-tv-de-beendet-den-Liveticker-article13236411.html
There are multiple ways to shoot down aircraft, you know? And there are different limits to those.
Why are you so full of shit? How did the rebels shoot down the troop carrier? With a slingshot?
Why did you remove your alternative news source that was quoting the Russian Defense Ministry?
How would you know the photos or the fragments wouldn't be forgeries?
All your source says is that, as far as the Ukrainian military person knows, the rebels did not capture such systems from the Ukrainian military. Based on the google translation he did not say that the Russians have not supplied them BUKs.
I think the experts from Malaysia are independent and the investigations haven't even started yet.
Yes, that's what I wrote in my post.
I also wrote about the possibility that Russia secretly sent one in with a team of experts. Which also doesn't make sense. And I also wrote that rebels capturing one (or getting on from Russia) simply would not work out, because of the training, that's required to operate one. It's not Call Of Duty equipment that just works.
Yes, but the crash site has been compromised by an unknown number of people, it's being guarded by the people who are suspected of doing the deed, there are people who'd benefit from finding fragments and not finding fragments both who could try and plant or remove evidence. Also, who would have satellites capable of taking said images without certain people going 'Oh, we can't trust the USA here'?
I'm just anticipating the next round of denial already, as it's impossible to find binding proof in this. Putin will always have deniability, sad as it is.
But you were using your source to refute a claim that a Russian missile system was used to shoot down the plane and asserted that "all BUKs are in control of Ukraine".
Partial Gamification
Banned
Netherlands delivered much emotion.
Regarding last moments of people on plane; "did they hold the hand of a loved one when they realized the plane was going down? Say 'I love you' for the last time? [paraphrased]"
The video will likely be up in a couple hours if you want to re-watch later.
To be totally honest most of Europe have been pissed at Russia for sometime over Ukraine but a few nations have blocked any real action. Those Nations have a lot to answer for but will never be called out on it.
The treatment of the remains etc has just boiled it to a point that even the obstructers have no choice
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