There's no more major spoilers though. What's left? Jaime could possibly talk to the Blackfish?
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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There's no more major spoilers though. What's left? Jaime could possibly talk to the Blackfish?
It'd be great if you could actually respond to the specific arguments that have been made, repeatedly, about Stannis and other characters instead of pulling a more articulate version of "ner ner you don't like it cause you're mad".
D&D can't even keep their own characterization straight. Last week's Inside the Episode had them saying that when we first met Stannis he was burning people alive, even though in the show he burned only statues of the Seven on Dragonstone. But their view of Stannis as a villain has tinted their writing of him this season, even though it bares hardly any resemblance to how they wrote him in previous seasons (when, yes, their depiction of him was closer to the books).
Lol. The percentage of viewers who discuss the show online is so minuscule that you listing the two together is simply laughable.
Beelzebufo
Banned
Euron I guess? Kevan Lannister getting killed by Varys?
I stopped watching in the previous season.
What a riveting argument. I'm swayed.
I hear consistently about people complaining about Ramsay's "twenty good men", which is the event that caused Stannis' story to go completely off the rails. Cheap machination that made no real sense.
You're playing an extremely weak argument that boils down to show watchers not having any basis of comparison. When you're able to look at Stannis in both the show and the book (and D&D's laughable comments), you can see where exactly D&D fucked up. They think he was burning people alive in his very first appearance in the show when he was burning statues of the Seven. They don't have a fucking grasp of his characterization in their own show.
TheOctodad
Member
I enjoyed this season. Most people I know still really like it too. It's not perfect, but people yelling "hacks" and "talentless" are really blowing things out of proportion.
Really not a fun thread to read sometimes. I like it when it's discussions about plots and possibilities, but lately I've just been avoiding this thread because of the bad juju I feel as soon as I click.
Really not a fun thread to read sometimes. I like it when it's discussions about plots and possibilities, but lately I've just been avoiding this thread because of the bad juju I feel as soon as I click.
But there's no way to be sure tho, this is why I think the threads should be kept separate next season.
-Victarion/Euron/Damphair
-The siege of Meereen could still happen
-The Dornish plot for revenge against the Lannister could be revealed
-Lady Stoneheart
-Sansa going back to the Vale and that whole Harry the Heir thing could still happen
-Arya after going blind
Edit: Yea I forgot about Kevan's death too.
Edit2: Oh and they could introduce Aegon's storyline too.
Kevan Lannister and Pycelle getting killed off. Though it seems that Vary's won't be doing those actions now considering how far away he is.
That has nothing to do with the books, at this point I could care less about the implications for the show if Jon is dead
Martin doesn't layer thick ass Warging upon death, and R'hllor revival and just toss it away because WHAT A TWEEEST!
Sometimes things are what they are.
Beelzebufo
Banned
You should listen to the behind the scenes stuff at the end of the episode. They're literally talking like kindergarteners.
"Alliser is a bad guy, and he kills a good guy. But Ollie is a child, not a bad guy, and he kills Jon so Jon isn't just killed by a bad guy!"
"In the books Jon didn't go to Hardhome but we thought that'd be a great action sequence so we had him go there and there was lots of fighting".
The Greyjoys. Kevan and Pycelle. Bran tree internet stuff. All them tinfoil hat theories and prophecies that I'm sure some show-only viewers wouldn't want to be hinted at.
Beelzebufo
Banned
Everyone is a merman in this show. Varys will be there in no time.
WrenchNinja
Member
Brienne literally stared at tower for more than half a season for something to do.
Half this season's runtime was stares. Mainly Olly.
Man that John stabbing was handled so bad... Pathetic.
But you can hate all you want.... Cerceis walk of shame was one of the best scenes of the entire show. Just wow... I have mad respect for the actress to pull off such a scene :bow
But you can hate all you want.... Cerceis walk of shame was one of the best scenes of the entire show. Just wow... I have mad respect for the actress to pull off such a scene :bow
m_shortpants
Member
Seems like it was a body double, lol.
Beelzebufo
Banned
I really did like her facial expressions, that was done well.
The Red Viper
Banned
Um.... No.
Obliterator
Member
Yeah, some people are shouting "bitter!" in here and I'm not saying the books always handle things better but there are some true shit tier plot threads this season.
Like what you wrote wasn't hyperbole. A character on this show literally sat staring at a tower for a half a season not moving just so she could miraculously show up to kill a specific character
jokingly? They specifically had Brienne talking about killing him earlier in the season as well as a lore video I believe. It wasn't that hard to predict at least some kind of confrontation would happen.
Sansa's plot was even more nonsensical
MisterShine
Member
I'll assume you mean like this.
It was during a blizzard and the '20 good men' knew the area very well and the invading army did not. It also possible that Bolton just paid off some of the guards to torch the supplies like Stannis suggests later that episode. There's nothing really unreasonable this.
He tried to burn an innocent young man a while ago. He's had a couple more seasons of despair heaped onto him since that point. This is a pretty clear progression for him.
Basileus777
Member
How is it amazing? Brienne outright stated a few episodes into the season that she wanted to kill Stannis. And with Stannis at her doorstep, of course she was going to at least try to kill him.
The problem is that she did nothing else the entire season after she met the old guy in the inn. She just stared. And stared. And stared. Then conveniently finds Stannis. She had no real role this season.
Obliterator
Member
Come on dude, we all know D&D treat Ramsay like a fucking unstoppable demi god. Between the whole "20 good men" and stopping the Iron born shirtless with a pack of dogs its a little ridiculous. Everyone on this show is so vulnerable but Ramsay is just the god of death lol
Beelzebufo
Banned
Yeah, I knew it would happen from that one conversation.
"Hey Pod, did I ever tell you about Renly?"
"What? The gay guy?"
"Yeah. I liked him and Stannis Baratheon killed him. I'm gonna kill Stannis Baratheon if he ever comes near me. Now let's stay at Winterfell until something happens."
"...why are you telling me this?"
Yeah I really felt bad for her... And that's Cercei we are talking about. Would love her to kick some ass before she gets offed by Arya in the future.
PS. Ending the season on Johns dead is such bad decision imo. Ghost should have been the last screen of the season and implying that John warged into him... Meh.
So are you saying an army of 2000+ couldn't hear or spot 20 men sneaking into their camp? Or that Ramsay is the Lord of Light himself and can spontaneously light multiple fires at once conveniently once he was a safe distance away, somehow coordinating with his other men to light them at the same time from opposite sides of the camp? If the guards were paid off why did he need "20 good men" and why were they running away?
It's cheap writing.
Ned Stark beheaded an innocent young man in the very first episode of the series. Did that make him an asshole?
MisterShine
Member
You're absolutely correct about the Iron Born 'incident'. That was just plain fucking stupid. I view those two things on totally different planes.
Yes, during a blizzard and knowing the terrain that is definitely possible. Sneak attacks are kind of a thing with the show, there's one in the second season where Greywind and a bunch of archers sneak up on a Lannister army camp and fuck them up pretty good.
He abandoned his duty to the Watch. He was not innocent.
Well, I'd say he's innocent in general but he committed a crime at least.
Books four and five focus more heavily on the scheming and politics, just as books one and two did. But book three had much more of a focus on warfare with big moments happening with greater frequency. Thus book four was a letdown for many people, coming directly after it, especially after such a long wait. Many people seem to have wanted to stick with the world building done in the first two books and not expand the world any further, since that takes away from time where people could be dying in surprising ways.
Combine that with all the time people had to come up with theories about all the awesome things their favorites (who weren't in book four) would be doing come book five -- only to find that, just as with the first three, plans never work out and everybody you like is fucked -- I feel like a lot of the dissatisfaction is very reactionary.
I'm always very curious how many of those people who complain about four and five read them more than once.
Sure, there's way too much time spent on travel in parts of book five, but you never see someone say that book one is trash because you spend an entire chapter walking up a mountain. (Although I like Mya Stone a lot, so I guess I'm okay with that chapter, personally.)
I think thats what's going to happen to. I know they mentioned in some book people transferring to animals before they died. I don't know if it was ever in the show though.
hipsterpants
Member
I love that some unsullied can't tell that Theon/Sansa survived. Unless that was supposed to a really shitty cliffhanger.
Now, you can bitch about a lot of things, but the quiet little conversations this show has are pretty much uniformly excellent, and showcase excellent performances.
I think it just translated poorly visually.
Cpt.Underpants
Member
hipsterpants
Member
Also that the writers forgot that they made the snow around Wintefell melt.
Beelzebufo
Banned
Nah, that one seemed really forced to me. It was like "Oh, they put that in there in case people forgot who Renly is and why Brienne hates Stannis".
Basileus777
Member
That's not the writers fault. It's a production or SFX issue.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
1. Stannis is insane by any measure
2. Glad they addressed his army deserting him (but where did it go?)
3. Melisandre cutting out early was some bulllllshit
4. I thought the battle was handled well actually.
5. Don't see why people are upset at how Stannis died, assuming he's done. He didn't deserve a better death.
6. Happy for Theon to have his first redemption moment.
7. Y'all complaining about jumping into a pile of snow from 80 feet and surviving but totally willing to believe burning your daughter at the stake would make The Lord of Light melt it. (You gotta admit you're abandoning SOD in curious places!). Assume they jumped off whichever side gets the most snow and the least light. What a dumb fucking criticism.
8. Next season's Brienne arc is going to disappoint everyone no matter what -- either she's chasing Sansa and Theon or she's escorting Stannis back to the wall.
9. I thought Arya's scenes were well done by all involved. The Trant criticism seems misplaced if you understand show watchers have only seen the guy once, killing Syrio. I'm ok with them making him a lot more grotesque. Realize he had to be awful enough to cause Arya (In show-watcher eyes) to break her vows. Murder scene was glorious. Going blind scene was superb.
10. The council of Mereen scene was super expository but the Varys/Tyrion reunion was excellent.
11. The Cersei scourge was brutal but effective. Amazing how D/D can make us care for this horrible woman's pain in ways that GRRM honestly didn't handle as well.
12. Yay FrankenMountain!
13. Dany dropping the ring was a breadcrumb for people looking for her, according to post-credits D/D talk. There's no debate here, other than potential effectiveness in the middle of a vast field. Then again, a 60-foot dragon is just over the hill and Dany is being circled by a Dothraki horde she couldn't see, smell, hear, or feel coming (or her dragon) and y'all wanna talk about whether that ring being found is realistic.
14. Interesting how they handled sending Sam to Oldtown. I wonder whether it will still involve a stop near newly-faceless Arya. Or brushing with Euron. Probably the biggest question for next season is how they're going to tie all that together and what gets cut.
15. The Jon Snow stuff was handled fine. I cringed at how quickly he got up when Olly came to get him, but I knew what was coming. Him getting stabbed on screen about 8 times *and probably living* will be a nice little troll job on book readers when Stannis gets killed offscreen and is most likely dead as fuck.
Next season guesses:
-- Sansa and Theon and Brienne and Pod make a break for the Wall. Things get icky when they hear about Jon.
-- no warging for Jon. Melisandre revives him. No idea what they'll do with Davos, no that his arc has no purpose. Might've made sense to send him with Sam.
-- agreed with the idea that Littlefinger helped to secure Winterfell and squabbling will start soon after. My question is which godlike entity survives -- Ramsey or Littlefinger? (And whether any death is brutal enough for the former)
-- prepare for another really boring arc with Dany being prisoner, discovering that she's not really a prisoner, then leading Dothraki to Mereen ON A DRAGON to mop up what Tyrion and Varys can't get done. Then all of the above will be heading to Westeros by ep 7-8-9.
-- Arya will be blind for exactly one episode and then she'll go full faceless. Sam will show up and she'll hitch a ride (with faceless blessing) to Oldtown.
-- I've always hated casting spoilers, so I haven't looked. Wouldn't be shocked if they cut Euron completely. Theon makes it back to home and sis after Sansa is safely in the care of Brienne. He takes the squid crown after some bullshit episode that will make book readers mad.
-- Bran's business in the tree of time and with the keeblers will show us how small all these concerns really are. They'll also be frustrating because he can't actually do anything.
-- season ends with Tyrion / Dany / UnDead Jon flying dragons into Kings Landing and just laying waste.
2. Glad they addressed his army deserting him (but where did it go?)
3. Melisandre cutting out early was some bulllllshit
4. I thought the battle was handled well actually.
5. Don't see why people are upset at how Stannis died, assuming he's done. He didn't deserve a better death.
6. Happy for Theon to have his first redemption moment.
7. Y'all complaining about jumping into a pile of snow from 80 feet and surviving but totally willing to believe burning your daughter at the stake would make The Lord of Light melt it. (You gotta admit you're abandoning SOD in curious places!). Assume they jumped off whichever side gets the most snow and the least light. What a dumb fucking criticism.
8. Next season's Brienne arc is going to disappoint everyone no matter what -- either she's chasing Sansa and Theon or she's escorting Stannis back to the wall.
9. I thought Arya's scenes were well done by all involved. The Trant criticism seems misplaced if you understand show watchers have only seen the guy once, killing Syrio. I'm ok with them making him a lot more grotesque. Realize he had to be awful enough to cause Arya (In show-watcher eyes) to break her vows. Murder scene was glorious. Going blind scene was superb.
10. The council of Mereen scene was super expository but the Varys/Tyrion reunion was excellent.
11. The Cersei scourge was brutal but effective. Amazing how D/D can make us care for this horrible woman's pain in ways that GRRM honestly didn't handle as well.
12. Yay FrankenMountain!
13. Dany dropping the ring was a breadcrumb for people looking for her, according to post-credits D/D talk. There's no debate here, other than potential effectiveness in the middle of a vast field. Then again, a 60-foot dragon is just over the hill and Dany is being circled by a Dothraki horde she couldn't see, smell, hear, or feel coming (or her dragon) and y'all wanna talk about whether that ring being found is realistic.
14. Interesting how they handled sending Sam to Oldtown. I wonder whether it will still involve a stop near newly-faceless Arya. Or brushing with Euron. Probably the biggest question for next season is how they're going to tie all that together and what gets cut.
15. The Jon Snow stuff was handled fine. I cringed at how quickly he got up when Olly came to get him, but I knew what was coming. Him getting stabbed on screen about 8 times *and probably living* will be a nice little troll job on book readers when Stannis gets killed offscreen and is most likely dead as fuck.
Next season guesses:
-- Sansa and Theon and Brienne and Pod make a break for the Wall. Things get icky when they hear about Jon.
-- no warging for Jon. Melisandre revives him. No idea what they'll do with Davos, no that his arc has no purpose. Might've made sense to send him with Sam.
-- agreed with the idea that Littlefinger helped to secure Winterfell and squabbling will start soon after. My question is which godlike entity survives -- Ramsey or Littlefinger? (And whether any death is brutal enough for the former)
-- prepare for another really boring arc with Dany being prisoner, discovering that she's not really a prisoner, then leading Dothraki to Mereen ON A DRAGON to mop up what Tyrion and Varys can't get done. Then all of the above will be heading to Westeros by ep 7-8-9.
-- Arya will be blind for exactly one episode and then she'll go full faceless. Sam will show up and she'll hitch a ride (with faceless blessing) to Oldtown.
-- I've always hated casting spoilers, so I haven't looked. Wouldn't be shocked if they cut Euron completely. Theon makes it back to home and sis after Sansa is safely in the care of Brienne. He takes the squid crown after some bullshit episode that will make book readers mad.
-- Bran's business in the tree of time and with the keeblers will show us how small all these concerns really are. They'll also be frustrating because he can't actually do anything.
-- season ends with Tyrion / Dany / UnDead Jon flying dragons into Kings Landing and just laying waste.
TheOctodad
Member
I have. Every show I've ever watched has been stupid with the behind the scene summaries. Not like there's enough time to say much. Only exception is Matt Weiner who is a God tier writer though.
TV is a different medium with a different audience. Like it or not Game of Thrones as a tv show survives because of its mass appeal. If they didn't go that route, it would have never been made. Yes some of the scene are simplified, yes some of it is dumber than the book. That doesn't take away my enjoyment of them. I can recognize the books as deeper and more fleshed out and even intelligent while still having fun with the show.
It's fun. I enjoy it. I make no apologies about that. For me it's a great fantasy world to escape in, when it's unrealistic I just chuckle and keep enjoying the fact that I get to watch a fun fantasy show that could have never been made 10 years ago.
Don't use words too big for the subject. Don't say 'infinitely' when you mean 'very'; otherwise you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C.S. Lewis (of course he's a hack too I'm sure).
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