Ok, so that's good. I will still doubt Nintendo's abilities to make this happen but given it's quite possible I will be happy to wait and see what shakes out. I will be wanting to play BotW regardless, it'll just be whether it's on NX or WiiU
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Eurogamer: NX = portable w/ carts, detachable controllers, Tegra, TV Out, no BC, Sept
- Thread starter Wollan
- Start date
- Status
Ok, so that's good. I will still doubt Nintendo's abilities to make this happen but given it's quite possible I will be happy to wait and see what shakes out. I will be wanting to play BotW regardless, it'll just be whether it's on NX or WiiU
How would you play like that, honest question?, Aren't you supposed to mimick the movements depicted onscreen? I guess you're implying that the user would use the portable screen as an off TV screen and dance using the detached controllers?
PowerBook duo dock station back in the day. It added ports, hdd and a fpu
Gotdatmoney
Member
DS game sales didnt explode because 3DS had BC. Neither did Wii sales for WiiU. Or Gamecube sales.for Wii.
BC is not a selling point these days. I dunno why people think it is. I bought a GBA, never bought a GBC game for it. I bought a Wii, never bought a gamecube game. Bought a WiiU, have never used Wii mode. Bought a DS. Never bought another GBA game. Bought a 3DS. Never purchased another DS game.
This BC obsession is literally founded on nothing.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
How relevant is that docking station thingy? I mean, Nintendo patented it right? This of course doesn't automatically mean it will be used though, but has it recently appeared again or has it been a while? If that docking station can improve the console part of NX, that would be a nice solution. But i don't want to put too much stock in that.
That is indeed sad.
Yes, why not?
Is there a source or something as to why people think the dock is more than just a charging station and HDMI passthrough?
When needed for games, these accessories have been bundled with the title most of the time (Motion Plus and Wii Sports Resort, a mouse-like attachment and Magic Kid, DK Bongo and Donkey Konga, microphone and Odama, and so on). For a portable system, it makes little sense to have such special configurations as it's pretty much the opposite of making the system portable.
If it's just something like the X1 Elite controller, yes, there would be a niche for that. But it wouldn't really add much.
That's basically what Just Dance on Wii is if you play it on Wii U.
Man, Nintendo. You had the chance to control your message and yet again you failed. Reveal this thing already!
Jonneh3003
Banned
If that statement earlier of Nintendo's mobile apps working on it is true then it probably will be.
So unexpected. It was bound to be compatible with Nintendo mobile games.
A potentially key difference is that in the Surface Book, you are using only one GPU at a time. So if you have the keyboard attached, you will be ignoring the iGPU. It'll be interesting to see how well Nintendo handles two separate GPUs. This is of course assuming that the base even has extra computing power, which I personally don't believe for now.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
I agree 100%. But I think that means a $250 price point, like the Wii, not $150-200 for a home console/hybrid. If they have to go that cheap, then it's pretty stupid to bother making hardware period. There only real justification for doing so is that they tend to sell their hardware at decent profit margins, unlike Sony and MS. If they can't make decent money from console hardware anymore, then they need to drop it ands focus on portable and mobile, maybe their own battle.net like PC ecosystem etc.
People are just saying it will get a boost up to 1080p etc. when docked. It doesn't matter whether that's just the dock providing more power and cooling to allow the processors in the screen unit to over clock, some extra processing power in the dock or both is irrelevant and can only be speculated about. No one being reasonable is expecting the dock to be super powerful and provide a gigantic boost on part with PS4 or anything.
But they need to get it running games on TV that look noticeably better than Wii U or it will be a non-starter to the western big screen gaming crowd. Unless this truly is just the 3DS successor and they have a true console up their sleeve too. But that seems unlikely at this point.
First, the vast majority not PS4/XB1 gamers don't give a shit about Nintendo and wouldn't buy a Nintendo console even if on par with their current platform(s). They don't want to play Nintendo's "kiddy" games as evidenced by the lack of those types of games, shit sales for games like Rayman on those platforms etc. Conversely, a lot of Nintendo diehards don't like those platforms as they don't like realistic graphic styles and "dude bro" games.
Once you get out of the hardcore on sites like this, there's just not a huge amount of overlap in gamers who love CoD, GTA, Halo, Uncharted etc. and those who love Mario, Pokemon et al.
Second, anyone expecting a super powered Nintendo consoled were fooling themselves. There's no market for that. People aren't paying $400+ for Nintendo hardware. Especially mid generation when gamers that will pay that for a console already have one or more consoles in their home.
Nintendo's only chance at hardware relevancy is finding a way to sell enough machines to their base of current and lapsed fans (true fans, not the Wii Sports/Brain Age crowd--people that grew up with Mario, Zelda et al) and future gamers that can play all their games. Their games sell with high attach rates at full price for longer than games on the competition. They can make huge profits with a smaller base than Sony or MS need.
ultrazilla
Member
I believe Nintendo was researching or looking at patents for a stackable type unit ie plug other pieces
(in this case controllers) into a main dock type unit to increase overall performance.
MilkyJoe
Member
X1 in a hand-held, eh?
I think Nintendo will struggle to find a cheap resistive touch screen at that resolution.
Graphics Horse
Member
Tegra X1
I was just asking.
No Nintendo can port their own games.
However, if the screen is capacitive, I may think they will actually seek 3rd party support primarily from mobile developers rather than the usual publishers working on xbox and ps.
MilkyJoe
Member
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
I think the most important thing for nintendo is to keep it simple - at least at first. The minute you start adding multiple options / form factors, it leads to a "Is this just an upgrade?"
"This is our new console. It will play every game. At home and on the go. $XXX. Thank you."
"This is our new console. It will play every game. At home and on the go. $XXX. Thank you."
Patrick Young
Member
I'll never get used to Nintendo being always behind on technology. Now it's even worse because being a handheld will limit this platform. That's just my opinion right now; this thing will likely release after the PS4 revision and in the same year as the new Xbox. Then how shit is it gonna look?
At least now I'm out of the Virtual Console cycle. I don't like emulation anymore. Instead I'm investing in digital output for my original consoles. Already started with the Ultra HDMI in my N64.
At least now I'm out of the Virtual Console cycle. I don't like emulation anymore. Instead I'm investing in digital output for my original consoles. Already started with the Ultra HDMI in my N64.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Oh I think they totally get that. They just realize there's more money to be made selling old games digitally, doing remastered etc. than adding BC. Plus for Wii U they can't have it native since there won't be a disc drive.
nuttyevans
Member
So is this another rumour or are we pretty certain this is what NX is going to be?
I kind of like what I'm seeing.
I kind of like what I'm seeing.
The dock would still need it's own GPU. Or not necessarily if Nintendo would be ready to compromise graphics on tv.
Let's say the custom Tegra chip would run about 1000 Mhz and would be about 1.0 tflops. Even that would probably be pushing it because X1 is 0.5 tflops and the power increasement per generation have been about 1.5x at max.
Let's say the resolution of NX handhelf would be 960x540 which is 4x less than 1080p. You would need about 0.3-0.4 tflops to run games with Xbone/PS4 level of graphics. That means the chip could be underclocked to 300-400 MHz. Should be possible.
BUT to be able to run the games on TV with 1080p you would need 4x the power. 1200 Mhz could be possible but 1600 Mhz probably wouldn't. And at this stage the heat production and power consumption would raise expotentially so that would certainly make it impossible.
Other resolutions like 1280x720 and 1600x900 are option but they don't upscale as smoothly. On the positive side something like 1280x720 would let Nintendo run games with much better post processing like AA compared to Wii U.
After thinking the news for a day I'm a bit dissapointed after all. This all makes some sense but it just that the home console side is compromised way too much. It would make much more sense to release two consoles with shared architecture/game library. That way Nintendo could release the handheld with underclocked Tegra chip and make a reasonable cheap home console with 4-5x more power. This way the both could play the same cartridges without almost any additional porting.
Also I haven't forgot the possibility of extra GPU on dock but that would be expensive. It also would need some new tech from Nvidia because think about how "well" SLI works in computer world.
Let's say the custom Tegra chip would run about 1000 Mhz and would be about 1.0 tflops. Even that would probably be pushing it because X1 is 0.5 tflops and the power increasement per generation have been about 1.5x at max.
Let's say the resolution of NX handhelf would be 960x540 which is 4x less than 1080p. You would need about 0.3-0.4 tflops to run games with Xbone/PS4 level of graphics. That means the chip could be underclocked to 300-400 MHz. Should be possible.
BUT to be able to run the games on TV with 1080p you would need 4x the power. 1200 Mhz could be possible but 1600 Mhz probably wouldn't. And at this stage the heat production and power consumption would raise expotentially so that would certainly make it impossible.
Other resolutions like 1280x720 and 1600x900 are option but they don't upscale as smoothly. On the positive side something like 1280x720 would let Nintendo run games with much better post processing like AA compared to Wii U.
After thinking the news for a day I'm a bit dissapointed after all. This all makes some sense but it just that the home console side is compromised way too much. It would make much more sense to release two consoles with shared architecture/game library. That way Nintendo could release the handheld with underclocked Tegra chip and make a reasonable cheap home console with 4-5x more power. This way the both could play the same cartridges without almost any additional porting.
Also I haven't forgot the possibility of extra GPU on dock but that would be expensive. It also would need some new tech from Nvidia because think about how "well" SLI works in computer world.
Memorabilia
Member
So (for now at least) it appears the Wii U is Nintendo's last traditional console.
pouroutsomeliquor.gif
And it turns out the NX is a hybrid all along. Wasn't there a big debate about that for a while with dozens of vocal GAFers mocking and shooting down anyone who dared say it was going to be a hybrid? I don't have a dog in this hunt since I never really joined in those debates, but I did tend to think a hybrid made sense given the realities of the market that Nintendo faces (even if I personally don't like the idea).
I'm kinda saddened by this news as I have very little personal interest in hand-held gaming. As an adult who only acts like a kid in the privacy of my own home (hehe), I don't want to carry around a hand-held device that looks like a Fisher-Price toy. The detachable controller idea sounds cool in theory, but I can't help but think this is going to result in yet another cheesy looking design aesthetic (which sounds like it'd be prone to breaking easily).
I'm also not thrilled about the idea of the Tegra powering this thing... And skeptical of going back to carts (how would downloadable patches/content work?)
With that in mind, my initial reaction to this is pretty much "meh, hype deflated...no thanks". But I'm willing to try to keep an open mind, so if they knock the design out of the park then..."maybe". Nintendo has always marched to the beat of it's own drummer... And despite a hit or miss track record, u can't fault them for trying to be different in a challenging market.
pouroutsomeliquor.gif
And it turns out the NX is a hybrid all along. Wasn't there a big debate about that for a while with dozens of vocal GAFers mocking and shooting down anyone who dared say it was going to be a hybrid? I don't have a dog in this hunt since I never really joined in those debates, but I did tend to think a hybrid made sense given the realities of the market that Nintendo faces (even if I personally don't like the idea).
I'm kinda saddened by this news as I have very little personal interest in hand-held gaming. As an adult who only acts like a kid in the privacy of my own home (hehe), I don't want to carry around a hand-held device that looks like a Fisher-Price toy. The detachable controller idea sounds cool in theory, but I can't help but think this is going to result in yet another cheesy looking design aesthetic (which sounds like it'd be prone to breaking easily).
I'm also not thrilled about the idea of the Tegra powering this thing... And skeptical of going back to carts (how would downloadable patches/content work?)
With that in mind, my initial reaction to this is pretty much "meh, hype deflated...no thanks". But I'm willing to try to keep an open mind, so if they knock the design out of the park then..."maybe". Nintendo has always marched to the beat of it's own drummer... And despite a hit or miss track record, u can't fault them for trying to be different in a challenging market.
This is probably a dumb idea, but I had a thought about how the dock could provide active cooling to the handheld.
On the back (or sides) of the handheld could be multiple ports. When the device is inserted into the dock, those ports would "plug" into outlets on the dock. Active air cooling could force air into the ports one side, and out the other. The ports could be keyed so that they would only open when it it connected to the dock, to prevent dust and other things from getting inside the device.
This way, as others have already stated, the active cooling would allow for higher clock speeds, and it would be freed from the constraints of the battery.
Just a (dumb) thought...
On the back (or sides) of the handheld could be multiple ports. When the device is inserted into the dock, those ports would "plug" into outlets on the dock. Active air cooling could force air into the ports one side, and out the other. The ports could be keyed so that they would only open when it it connected to the dock, to prevent dust and other things from getting inside the device.
This way, as others have already stated, the active cooling would allow for higher clock speeds, and it would be freed from the constraints of the battery.
Just a (dumb) thought...
Patrick Young
Member
I look at it as every potential console game getting downgraded to a handheld game.
I see it as a financial success as well, but I don't get any benefit and they've got me by the balls because I want to play Mario and Zelda games.
Oh this thing
Ok yah, I see why some may believe this is the doc. We shall see.
The thing is in this picture SCD could just be a docking station that would make the console run at higher clock speeds as most people are speculating.
Cosmonal
Neo Member
I only plays new games, so backwards compatibility don't matter to me.
I only plays on my couch with high volume audio, low light and all that. So portable gaming, last time I played one was Tetris on Game Boy at 1989. This NX as it was presented looks like a dream for portable gaming fans, though.
F-Zero on a real SNES on a big screen, subwoofer and RGB via Framemeister is a blast, it really is.
...Also this looks like the end of console gaming for Nintendo, at least for people like me who really don't play anything on small screens outside of the house. Loved Metroid Prime Trilogy on the original Wii so much... I will miss something like that again.
I'm already hoping for a 'Wii One' kind of thing by Nintendo on the far future!
I only plays on my couch with high volume audio, low light and all that. So portable gaming, last time I played one was Tetris on Game Boy at 1989. This NX as it was presented looks like a dream for portable gaming fans, though.
F-Zero on a real SNES on a big screen, subwoofer and RGB via Framemeister is a blast, it really is.
...Also this looks like the end of console gaming for Nintendo, at least for people like me who really don't play anything on small screens outside of the house. Loved Metroid Prime Trilogy on the original Wii so much... I will miss something like that again.
I'm already hoping for a 'Wii One' kind of thing by Nintendo on the far future!
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
In handheld mode? No.
When docked? Sure. If it uses the Tegra X2 chip, and the dock provides the extra voltage and cooling to over clock, it could hit X1 levels from what's been speculated on. Even more easily reached if the dock adds extra processing power, or more RAM etc.
Detachable controllers means that there will be some holes on the side (most probably). So those could double as vents and use them for active cooling while docked.
I bought a GBA, bought a GBC game for it. I bought a Wii, bought a gamecube game. Bought a WiiU, used Wii mode. Bought a DS. Bought another GBA game. Bought a 3DS. Purchased another DS game.
Isn't anecdotal evidence fun.
Papacheeks
Banned
called it!
Makes sense for why the mock-up with the controllers that come out of the unit, look like they would be great for 2 player hand held games, and mobile, or your phone can become an added controller as well.
I bet that will be a thing as well.
Graphics Horse
Member
Wonder if the controllers could connect entirely by NFC when docked, that would probably be the simplest way and mean they don't need extra power/interface connectors. There was an old patent which involved slotting in different nfc controller parts to a tablet like device which is probably closest to what is rumored.
Downside is you'd probably need to pop in an AA to play detached.
Downside is you'd probably need to pop in an AA to play detached.
NingenJanai
Member
It will probably throttle down considerably when portable like most laptop nvidia GPUs when not plugged in.
Wouldn't you need power connectors for the buttons and sticks anyway?
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
And now you'll probably be able to buy Wii, Wii U etc games on NX. Digitally. Where Nintendo makes more profit than if you buy physically, and vs. no profit for people who buy used.
Nintendo isn't in a position to cater to consumers that aren't willing to throw money at them. They can't charge high prices of course, but they need to build a base of people that buy lots of games new, and lots of games digitally where margins are higher, if they're going to survive.
Their whole path to success is being able to heavily monetize their base who buy games at high attach rates, buy good DLC, buy Amiibo etc.
The PS4/Xbox/PC gamer who may buy a Nintendo console on the cheap to play a handful of games just isn't that important to their future. Nice to have as money is money, but the whales who really invest in their ecosystem are the key.
No BC. Wii can be emulated on Tegra, but Wii U, not a chance.
Planar to FinFET is very different.
They already have a FinFET designed chip (Tegra X2) - why port over X1 which won't be as efficient as X2 especially when battery life is an issue?
You'd rather spend the money on X2 since it'll be easier then just to shrink that further down as needed - plus they'll use that design elsewhere in other products. Nvidia has no reason to use X1 again unless they want to continue making Shield TV - but even then why not simply make Shield TV 2 with the X2 and have it subsidized in a sense by Nintendo allowing for large volume production? I read a comment somewhere that X2 would be a drop-in replacement anyways for X1 as well.
X2 unless they're insane. Nvidia is all about that $$$.
I think it's meant to allow for increased performance for TV gaming without sacrificing graphic fidelity so no dongle here. Plus easier to charge.
No-one knows. Depends on the cost most likely.
Cart is always more expensive than disc. Nintendo will probably eat the $1-2 or so difference to encourage 3rd Party. Depends on the install base.
Definitely Virtual Console. How far will depend on how the button layout and stuff will be. Up to Wii might be possible depending if the controllers have motion control. Gamecube definitely.
Price I'd say around $300 if they can't hit $399 based on their research for maximum mainstream reach. Maybe $250 if the stars align. Android Shield TV sells for $199 and that's not even bulk produced anywhere near what consoles do. but doesn't come with a screen. The Dock will add to the price otherwise without Dock (if it has additonal computational unit) they could go ~$200.
$200 or less is a dream unless they're willing to take a loss initially (Which they said they wouldn't).
https://www.semiwiki.com/forum/content/1789-16nm-finfet-versus-20nm-planar.html
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
I'm guessing the controllers have batteries built in that either serve as the battery for the portable, or supplement the larger battery in the screen section. That would help expand battery life in portable mode, and prevent having to pop batteries into the controllers to use console mode.
Graphics Horse
Member
Not if they use a NFC circuit, the tiny amount of power needed is supplied wirelessly, same as wacom pen buttons or amiibo being able to send & store data. Only works very short range of course so not a solution for detached mode!
Oh, this ever occurred to me. They need separate batteries for breakout controllers to work which is going to further add to size. But also if they can breakout nothing says you cannot create different configurations.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Even the new Tegra 2?
If so, oh well. More money for Nintendo by putting out higher priced remasters with extra content of the few Wii U games that would sell well and don't have sequels ready soon.
- Status