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[DiipuSurotu]

Has any recent film with major whitewashing controversy for the lead role been a success?

Doctor Strange?

"In this superhero film, white actress Tilda Swinton plays the Ancient One, who in the comics is a man from Kamar-Taj, a fictional kingdom in the Himalayas.[31][32][33][34]"

 

[Litan]

Nah, I think you're way off base. Mainstream known actress=movie for mass audience. Unknown Japanese actress = honoring source

Read this post and thought, "Really?"
Then I saw who posted it and thought, "Oh, of course."

 

[AlfonzoPalutena]

No studio in their right mind should give newbies a chance to direct blockbusters. You don't let a pilot that has never flown a plane before start flying jumbo jets frequently. They need to build up their skills, and they do that by acquiring experience. That goes for any profession or goal for that matter. Start small, aim big.

A lot studios go for exactly that nowadays, to great success

The Russo Bros were pretty damn new / inexperienced. Their only major film direction role was You, Me, and Dupree. They had really only otherwise directed Arrested Development and Community episodes.

Jon Watts is directing Spider-Man Homecoming, it's a huge deal to be trusted to headline a major franchise like that. He has directed a low budget, trashy horror movie and an indie flick starting Kevin Bacon

It goes further than Marvel Studios too.

The Amazing Spider-Man franchise with Marc Webb

Kong: Skull Island with Jordan Vogt-Roberts

Collin Trevorrow directed Jurassic World and will be directing Star Wars Episode 9. He has two sub $1m budget Indies under his belt and a short film.

Snow White and the Huntsman - Rupert Sanders, it was his first feature length job. His next job? Ghost in the Shell

It's actually now odd to hire a very opinionated, established​ director like James Cameron or Christopher Nolan for a big franchise film. It's easier for producers to manage a small director instead.

Someday they might cut out the middleman and just have the cinematographer, producers, and second unit director all collaborate to fill the role of "Director"

 

[Future PhaZe]

having done everything right this still would have sold like shit

at least it has the best cyber punk aesthetic i've ever seen

 

[BronsonLee]

The only instance I can think of of a newbie director completely fucking up everything would be the guy who directed 47 Ronin

I think it ended up costing like double what it should have

 

[TheGreatDirector]

Considering this is the studio that greenlighted a Ben-Hur remake of all movies for last year, marketing it as an action-adventure film, I'm not surprised in the least that they're tone deaf to these types of issues in film.

 

[Duplolas]

I mean...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DhoBuU1Dtc

So many SJWs on Neogaf.

 

[Fj0823]

The only instance I can think of of a newbie director completely fucking up everything would be the guy who directed 47 Ronin

I think it ended up costing like double what it should have

That movie insulted me.

 

[thepotatoman]

Only Doctor Strange is the recent exception and that's because of the Marval film fanbase.

It's a stretch to say this perhaps but the Heimdall/Elbis """controversy""" didn't affect Thor's performance either.

Basically if you're not an international superbrand, stop whitewashing. It doesn't work.

If we're going to include controversies over supporting roles, then we can add Pan, Star Trek Into Darkness, The Lone Ranger, and Whiskey Tango Foxtrot as all bombs and disappointments too.

 

[LionPride]

If we're going to include controversies over supporting roles, then we can add Pan, Star Trek Into Darkness, The Lone Ranger, and Whiskey Tango Foxtrot as all bombs and disappointments too.

I don't believe Into Darkness was a financial disappointment. At all.

 

[Ridley327]

If I'd be allowed to expand it to small indie films (which I should be able to, because duh):

Gareth Edwards
Jordan Vogt-Roberts
Colin Trevorrow
Taika Waititi
Tim Miller (mostly animation, but you get it)
Marc Webb

Like I can keep going. Someone sees a short or a indie film they like, they scoop them up early.

If you want to go older, look no further than the likes of David Fincher and Michael Bay themselves, both of whom came from the same ad company. No feature films to their credit before landing their big time studio gigs, and while Fincher had more of a trial by fire than Bay did, they've become mainstays of the industry since then.

 

[KalBalboa]

Did Scarlett Johansson take any flack for committing to the role or has all the disapproval been aimed at the studio?

 

[KSweeley]

I don't believe Into Darkness was a financial disappointment. At all.

It's not: http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=startrek12.htm

Production Budget: $190 million

Total Lifetime Grosses
Domestic: $228,778,661 48.9%
+ Foreign: $238,602,808 51.1%
= Worldwide: $467,381,469

 

[Ridley327]

I don't believe Into Darkness was a financial disappointment. At all.

They're probably confusing it with Beyond, which definitely was.

 

[BarringGaffner]

This is like saying 'I only failed the test because I got the questions wrong'. What a stupid point from Paramount.

And no, it wasn't just the whitewashing controversy. It looked like a miserable movie with no soul that most people don't want to spend their free time sitting through.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

A lot studios go for exactly that nowadays, to great success

The Russo Bros were pretty damn new / inexperienced. Their only major film direction role was You, Me, and Dupree. They had really only otherwise directed Arrested Development and Community episodes.

Jon Watts is directing Spider-Man Homecoming, it's a huge deal to be trusted to headline a major franchise like that. He has directed a low budget, trashy horror movie and an indie flick starting Kevin Bacon

It goes further than Marvel Studios too.

The Amazing Spider-Man franchise with Marc Webb

Kong: Skull Island with Jordan Vogt-Roberts

Collin Trevorrow directed Jurassic World and will be directing Star Wars Episode 9. He has two sub $1m budget Indies under his belt and a short film.

Snow White and the Huntsman - Rupert Sanders, it was his first feature length job. His next job? Ghost in the Shell

It's actually now odd to hire a very opinionated, established​ director like James Cameron or Christopher Nolan for a big franchise film. It's easier for producers to manage a small director instead.

Someday they might cut out the middleman and just have the cinematographer, producers, and second unit director all collaborate to fill the role of "Director"

Besides the studio management aspect, I think this has a lot to do with the fact that there aren't as many opportunities for mid-range budget flicks anymore. It's either low budget indie stuff or go hard on a $100m+ blockbuster. There isn't a lot of opportunity for a lot of directors to get a gradual ramp up between the two so if someone makes something promising on the indie scale, studios take a gamble and give them a shot at the big time. Jordan Peele reportedly being in talks to direct Akira is the newest example.

 

[Davide]

It should have released in August

 

[kurahador]

Monsters cost less than most shorts are produced on (the advantage of doing your own special effects!), and that wound up getting Gareth Edwards the 2014 Godzilla gig.

Monsters is a an actual movie, competently made and thematically similar to Godzilla.

If I'd be allowed to expand it to small indie films (which I should be able to, because duh):

Umm...no. Directing an actual film or multiple tv episodes is totally not the same as directing 2 shorts.

If you want to go older, look no further than the likes of David Fincher and Michael Bay themselves, both of whom came from the same ad company. No feature films to their credit before landing their big time studio gigs, and while Fincher had more of a trial by fire than Bay did, they've become mainstays of the industry since then.

And both of them doesn't get to direct $100++ million movie as feature debut.

 

[Haly]

I mean...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DhoBuU1Dtc

So many SJWs on Neogaf.

I don't know if this is sarcastic or not. If it is, the top comment on that video already tells you what you need to know.

Okay, what people don't understand is that Japanese and Japanese Americans have totally different experiences when dealing with racism. Japanese live in a very homogeneous society, so they're surrounded mostly by people who look like them. Also, they have their own media, so they have the privilege to see themselves on TV without stereotypes. They don't have to deal with people pinning stereotypes on them and being asked awkward questions about their race and culture. Japanese Americans are not surrounded by people who look like them. Since american media is consisted of mostly white people, they don't get to see themselves on TV, films, etc. And if they do see an Asian and/or a Japanese character on the screen, they're HEAVILY stereotyped as the nerdy kid, the straight A student, the nail salon lady, etc. This video doesn't prove that hollywood was right to hire Scarlet Johansson, it just proves that Japanese in Japan don't have the same racial experience that Japanese Americans have.

But yeah, those SJWs or something.

 

[thepotatoman]

I don't believe Into Darkness was a financial disappointment. At all.

They cut the budget for the third movie as a response to it not being as successful as they hoped, but it wasn't an outright bomb. It's why I call it a disappointment, but don't want to get too deep into arguing about it.

We can add it with Doctor Strange as being immune by being such a established franchise.

 

[O_Atoll]

My fear is that their "honest" attempt to hire Asian actors will have a shitty script and/or director, which will lead them to say, "see that don't work either!". I hope that doesn't happen.

I'll take that chance than none at all. Has there been an Asian actor in Hollywood since Jet li? Besides the guy in Godzilla that has one line and a shocked face.

 

[old]

I just don't like live-action anime movies. Could have been an all-Japanese cast and I still wouldn't have seen it.

 

[Snkfanatic]

I mean...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DhoBuU1Dtc

So many SJWs on Neogaf.

Did you even watch the video you linked? Most of the responses were "it's just the way Hollywood is"

Damn us evil SJWs though man.....you keep fighting that good fight against those pesky vile SJWs.

 

[Lagamorph]

Even without the controversy it's just a bad film.

 

[BronsonLee]

That movie insulted me.

I watched it on a plane and tried to leave the theater

If you want to go older, look no further than the likes of David Fincher and Michael Bay themselves, both of whom came from the same ad company. No feature films to their credit before landing their big time studio gigs, and while Fincher had more of a trial by fire than Bay did, they've become mainstays of the industry since then.

I don't wanna be old tho

Umm...no. Directing an actual film or multiple tv episodes is totally not the same as directing 2 shorts.

Then this conversation is over because that's an extremely disingenuous limiter to put on it. Indies are absolutely not the same as a 170 million dollar tentpole. Rupert got picked because he did tv ads and some shorts. I could also bring up Joseph Kosinski if you want.

And both of them doesn't get to direct $100++ million movie as feature debut.

Times have changed.

 

[tkscz]

I mean, that's part of it, the other part is it's based off an anime. You pissed off fans yes, but the average populous has no idea it was based on an anime and wouldn't even now about the white washing. Let's be honest, if it didn't whitewash, it still would've failed.

 

[KSweeley]

According to a Japanese actress interviewed by The Hollywood Reporter, "People in Japan worship white people.": http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...esses-dissect-movie-whitewashing-twist-990956

When THR interviewed Japanese fans about the whitewashing claims, they weren’t bothered by it, and neither was Mamoru Oshii, who directed the 1995 anime version. How do you feel about their response?

Yoshihara: People in Japan worship white people.

Kato-Kiriyama: Even in the story, there are Japanese people involved in creating these beings and they also may very well see the ideal human being as a white woman. So you’re sort of messed up all the way around.

Agena: Yes! I felt more messed up watching this movie. It reinforced my own personal messed-up standards of physical beauty.

Okatsuka: This is an important conversation to have.

Yoshihara: Even my ex-boyfriend, who is Asian American, said, “What Asian lady has a body like Scarlett Johansson?”

Agena: There are certain priorities there.

Okatsuka: It’s this weird thing where Asian Americans or Asian nationals living here like me, working in film, are fighting both our motherland and white producers here. We’re walking this in-between where I scream at Hollywood but I’m also like, “Why’d you do that, Japan?!” Et tu, Brute, on both sides.

Yoshihara: Japanese people are self-loathing.

Okatsuka: Is it crazy that suicide rates are so high in Japan?

Yoshihara: Even my sister committed suicide. That’s how many people commit suicide in Japan. That’s how messed up it is.

 

[Snkfanatic]

According to a Japanese actress interviewed by The Hollywood Reporter, "People in Japan worship white people.": http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...esses-dissect-movie-whitewashing-twist-990956

There is literally an entire thread for this....

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1357912

 

[N7.Angel]

Nope nothing to do with that, it's just bad.

 

[Soph]

Terrible movie

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

I mean...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DhoBuU1Dtc

So many SJWs on Neogaf.

You do realize Japan has no shortage of Asian representation in their movies compared to the lack of it in ours, right?

You do know a lot of Asian Americans feel insulted by this movie, right?

But seeing as how your using "SJW" I'm gonna guess you don't know.

 

[Ridley327]

And both of them doesn't get to direct $100++ million movie as feature debut.

Easy when $100 million blockbusters weren't even commonplace in that era. Alien 3 was definitely on the upper end of budgets back when it came out, while entrusting an action-comedy vehicle to someone whose body of work didn't indicate they had it in them wasn't exactly the safest choice. Hell, the only thing that Bay did that was even intentionally comedic was a damn Got Milk? ad.

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

According to a Japanese actress interviewed by The Hollywood Reporter, "People in Japan worship white people.": http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...esses-dissect-movie-whitewashing-twist-990956

I mean they obviously only interviewed one person but anyone who grew up in Asia will tell you the same. It's only a surprise to people who grew up in the West and have little knowledge of the East.

 

[LionPride]

According to a Japanese actress interviewed by The Hollywood Reporter, "People in Japan worship white people.": http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...esses-dissect-movie-whitewashing-twist-990956

Bruh there's a topic on the first page about this...

 

[Turin Turambar]

I wonder how bad is the movie, because for example I found Lucy horrible, and that still made more than $400 millions.

 

[commedieu]

To be fair, even if it's erroneous, if their takeaway is that whitewashing will lead to a worse performance than having non-white leads, it's a good thing.

Hold my Oscar..

 

[anaron]

Lol, shut up Paramount. Your shitty marketing hurt it more than anything

 

[Haly]

According to a Japanese actress interviewed by The Hollywood Reporter, "People in Japan worship white people.": http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...esses-dissect-movie-whitewashing-twist-990956

I mean they obviously only interviewed one person but anyone who grew up in Asia will tell you the same. It's only a surprise to people who grew up in the West and have little knowledge of the East.

This is a bit of a misrepresentation. This is a round robin from four Japanese-American actresses working in America commenting on GITS and how, as professionals, they're stuck in a kind of purgatory, because Americans don't want to cast them and Japanese don't care about seeing them casted, and would rather see ScarJo.

But yes, it highlights that Japanese and Japanese-Americans are two distinct social groups with their own priorities and values.

THOSE DAMN SJWS ON NEOGAF MAAAAN

 

[TatteredHat]

It's not the fans' fault that you guys decided to make a GitS remake for no-one, own up to it.

 

[old manatee]

Has any recent film with major whitewashing controversy for the lead role been a success?

Gods of Egypt, Aloha, 47 Ronin, and now Ghost in the Shell are all bombs.

Edge of Tomorrow, Prince of Persia, and The last Airbender didn't do great.

You have to go all the way back 9 years with "21" to find a big success with whitewashing, when social media was still transitioning from Myspace to Facebook.

MCU fans really fucked us by supporting Doctor Strange. We had such a solid streak of whitewashed movies tanking. I want it to be common knowledge that whitewashing a movie leads to endless online controversy and lower ticket sales.

 

[Jotaka]

I mean...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DhoBuU1Dtc

So many SJWs on Neogaf.

SJW... really?

 

[LionPride]

MCU fans really fucked us by supporting Doctor Strange. We had such a solid streak of whitewashed movies tanking. I want it to be common knowledge that whitewashing a movie leads to endless online controversy and lower ticket sales.

I honestly feel like it doesn't. Like, most people do not give a rat's ass about whitewashing. The movies that whitewashed Asian roles, tended to be shitty movies.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

The anime fanboy illuminati strikes again, like how they also killed Dragonball Z and The Last Airbender.

TLA just really, really sucked though. Even the weird race things aside... it just sucked.

 

[jmdajr]

I mean, that's part of it, the other part is it's based off an anime. You pissed off fans yes, but the average populous has no idea it was based on an anime and wouldn't even now about the white washing. Let's be honest, if it didn't whitewash, it still would've failed.

No doubt. Anime fans alone couldn't carry this movie no matter what.

In the end no body is happy though. Fans pissed, mainstream don't give a shit. Etc.

The movie to me was ok not even comparing it to the original. Cost me 5 bucks and I had to see it no matter what because I love the original. I just had to know what they came up with.

 

[old manatee]

I honestly feel like it doesn't. Like, most people do not give a rat's ass about whitewashing. The movies that whitewashed Asian roles, tended to be shitty movies.

Well either way I'm doing my part.

 

[Haly]

I honestly feel like it doesn't. Like, most people do not give a rat's ass about whitewashing. The movies that whitewashed Asian roles, tended to be shitty movies.

I think maybe there's a correlation there, where if you're blind to the ramifications of whitehwashing, you're missing some integral nuance that would actually allow you to make good movies about foreign mythos.

Just conjecture on my part though.

 

[Duplolas]

Did you even watch the video you linked? Most of the responses were "it's just the way Hollywood is"

Damn us evil SJWs though man.....you keep fighting that good fight against those pesky vile SJWs.

LOL

Who are you trying to impress with your lies? Not one of them said "it's just the way Hollywood is" or anything even close to it.

You are absolutely pathetic.

 

[le.phat]

I mean...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DhoBuU1Dtc

So many SJWs on Neogaf.

What the fuck does the opinion of a person living in Japan have to do with a racial problem that's happening in the US ? Are you trolling or just a little clouded ?

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

I honestly feel like it doesn't. Like, most people do not give a rat's ass about whitewashing. The movies that whitewashed Asian roles, tended to be shitty movies.

It's more wasted potential. There are so many whitewashed properties that could have turned an Asian actor into a successful lead if they had cared more.

 

[Haly]

T-minus 5 minutes to "virtue signalling" and "outrage" and "this is why trump won".