Well DoW did take plenty of freedom to modify the stats of 40k lore so the game was balanced. They could do the same for TW.
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Dawn of War III - Review Thread
- Thread starter ashecitism
- Start date
Well DoW did take plenty of freedom to modify the stats of 40k lore so the game was balanced. They could do the same for TW.
Feeroper
Member
Disappointed to see the user reviews here from the open beta. I really wanted to get this game as I really like DoW 1 and to a lesser extent I liked DoW 2 as well, but this doesn't look good. It looks like its going to be drowning in DLC as well. Its a shame if so.
Well, I suppose I save money this way.
Well, I suppose I save money this way.
With Relic's record regarding post launch support you'll be waiting a long long time.
TheVoidDragon
Member
From the moment they said they were taking inspiration from MOBAs that was cause for concern. In the past on other sites when i've mentioned how i was worried about the game being heavily influenced by MOBAs which would probably take away from the experience i've just had it all thrown back at me with excuses of "It's not MOBA-like, it's just an RTS with more emphasis on the heroes!" and people saying there's not that much of a difference between the two. Now that it's playable though, it's even more clear how close to an MOBA it is and i don't see how that benefits the game at all.
I'm wondering, what is that storm attack the Eldar get? It seems to last a very, very long time....
TBH I don't see any MOBA qualities in this. It's just something people blurt out when they see the core that you need to kill. The map control is similar to DoW2 in the sense that capturing and harassing points is the core of the match. But the elites and the map design seem to make the matches long stalemates. In Dow 2 the tickets would just tick down and end the match.
cripterion
Member
I liked them both too, this third iteration though...
Ragnar Blackmane
Member
I am just going to quote myself from earlier in this thread:
And that's with leaving out above mentioned stealth scrub/high grass and the fact that standard units are much smaller in size and bulk than infantry hero units, something that makes sense in League (the creeps are essentially goblin sized in the lore as well), but not for Space Marines or Eldar, especially from a lore perspective. Size was still accurate in Dawn of War 1 and 2, with hero units and leaders being the same size as standard troops, unless they were much bigger in the tabletop as well (e.g. Orks or Tyranids). Also just like creeps in League all models in a standard unit also shareEXACTLY the same model and textures, they are literally identical clones, something that absolutely wasn't the case in DoW1 and DoW2. Here are some examples:
Similar to League, DoW3 has coloured unit outlines and is also much brighter and uses vastly brighter colours than the last two Dawn of War games and well, pretty much any Warhammer 40k video game , that made use of more muted and gritty colours and filters. 40k is supposed to be grimdark and gritty after all, not cheery and colourful.
The thing that hit me the most though was still that they literally copied one of the more well known and fan favorite Champions from League and put her into the game as hero unit with an Eldar skin. They probably took several other active abilities and skillshots from other LoL and DOTA2 characters for other hero units as well.
Those things are very apparent to anyone who ever played League (and likely DOTA2 as well) to any extend, that you didn't notice those rather obvious elements makes me question whether you ever played one for any considerabel stretch of time.
Is there anything anything inherent wrong with this being a 40k "Moba". Sure it's way different, but so was DOW1 to DOW2. This is Relics way of getting into the Moba space in a Pseudo RTS. Honestly, it's not how I would of envisioned DOW3, but at least we have it, and I am sure they will add to it hardcore (Races, Elites, Doctrines etc.)
Ragnar Blackmane
Member
There are few series where going in a radically different direction from the critically acclaimed older games in the series with stripped out well liked features and simplified and closer to 'whatever the non-hardcore mainstream is currently interested in even if it is from a completely different genre'' gameplay where the gamble paid off. You anger the established fanbase (doubly so with how lore inaccurate DoW3 is even compared to the first two games, and lore adherence is serious business for hardcore 40k fans which make up a serious part of the Dawn of War fanbae), create bad word of mouth (and how much anti-hype and sales impact that can cause was recently demonstrated by ME:Andromeda) and usually you can't bring enough more mainstream players that weren't interested in older games in the series on board.
And why should mainstream MOBA players that weren't interested in RTS (which especially in those times is a rather small niche genre) before pick up Dawn of War 3 exactly? League and DOTA2 have massive established fanbases and don't have a $60 price of admission because they are free. The gameplay experience is also more focused and refined and both games have years of careful balancing, marketing and community building behind them. Because of the 40k theme? Well good thing the game has somersaulting Angelos in Terminator armor that is ridiculously oversized and tactical Space Marines that get outgunned by Dire Avengers and everything with cheery bright colours for those people that like 40k and it's lore, or Emperor forbid, the tabletop game with all it's detailed and unique models.
Sega could have easily paid for the development of a free to play 40k MOBA without having to use the Dawn of War franchise for that and charging 60 bucks for rather little content.
TheVoidDragon
Member
The way they've decided to do heroes and elite units really makes no sense to me. In DoW1 Heroes were more of a powerful support unit for your army. In DoW2 they were something to build your army around, but not to the point where they'd win fights by themselevs and they allowed you access to more abilities and units depending on what you chose. Here though, they're just extremely powerful units that can fight off large groups of units by themselves and some of the Elite units are things that should be a standard part of your forces like Assault Terminators. The army doctrines are abilities that should have either been upgrades or things that you should have anyway, it's like they removed all the non-stat increase upgrades and just stuck them in as army doctrines yet you're only allowed 3 of them now.
I think there's a big difference between this and what DoW1 to DoW2 did. In that situation they tried to improve core aspects of the game; cover and unit positioning, for example. It was a change in scale and overall gameplay but they were actually trying to improve it. Here though, they haven't really added anything and the change in gameplay is the result of them just removing what made the first two games what they were. I'm not saying they didn't work hard on it but it's sort of like it's only different because it doesn't make as much effort as the previous games, in a way. They've stripped out all the features of the previous games to go for a different type of player, how is that a good thing for fans of the series at all? How does it do anything better than DoW1 or 2, even if you find it more fun personally? The units have less detail, the combat has less weight and impact, the maps aren't as well designed with the MOBA lanes, the voice work is lacking, the bright art style doesn't fit in with W40K, the heroes/elites and army doctrines don't live up to what the previous games had and there's far less content (units, gamemodes, abilities, buildings, races).
I think there's a big difference between this and what DoW1 to DoW2 did. In that situation they tried to improve core aspects of the game; cover and unit positioning, for example. It was a change in scale and overall gameplay but they were actually trying to improve it. Here though, they haven't really added anything and the change in gameplay is the result of them just removing what made the first two games what they were. I'm not saying they didn't work hard on it but it's sort of like it's only different because it doesn't make as much effort as the previous games, in a way. They've stripped out all the features of the previous games to go for a different type of player, how is that a good thing for fans of the series at all? How does it do anything better than DoW1 or 2, even if you find it more fun personally? The units have less detail, the combat has less weight and impact, the maps aren't as well designed with the MOBA lanes, the voice work is lacking, the bright art style doesn't fit in with W40K, the heroes/elites and army doctrines don't live up to what the previous games had and there's far less content (units, gamemodes, abilities, buildings, races).
Ragnar Blackmane
Member
Yep, just added that point to my last two posts.
This is almost an exact copy of how people talked about Dawn of War 2 in comparison to 1 when DOW 2 was released. Relic reinvents this series with each release.
Honestly with how poorly RTS games have performed in recent years it seems logical that companies are going to take cues from MOBAs and it's only natural that the two genres will directly influence one another given their intertwined history.
'Stealth grass' is a LoL thing, not a MOBA thing, and has been tried before in RTS games like Starcraft 2. Heroes can trace their origins to Warcraft 3 (maybe earlier?) and that's an RTS. The genres will continue to borrow from one another.
'Stealth grass' is a LoL thing, not a MOBA thing, and has been tried before in RTS games like Starcraft 2. Heroes can trace their origins to Warcraft 3 (maybe earlier?) and that's an RTS. The genres will continue to borrow from one another.
Ragnar Blackmane
Member
Dawn of War 2 still had:
- morale system (and the impact of that alone can not be stretched enough)
- extensive squad system with various squad size and equipment upgrades
- retreat functionality and the importance of keeping a limited number of units alive and healthy rather than spamming new ones
- early game units that remained relevant for the rest of the match instead of turning into cannon fodder
- Deployable defensive structures such as turrets
- was closely inspired by Company of Heroes which in turn took the bulk of it's core gameplay from Dawn of War 1
- detailed melee combat animations and kill-synch animations
- Varied and detailed and properly scaled models even for standard units, as well as squad leader characters/sergeants
- Limited number of vehicles but very powerful and quite counterable for infantry with the right specialist equipment
- Heroes being powerful but essentially support unit that needed support from standard troops instead of all-destroying murder machines that wipe the floor with normal units
- Very accurate and faithful to the 40k universe and lore
And those are just the things that immediately come to my mind.
If anything it was much closer to DoW1's core gameplay than DoW 3 is. Also Dawn of War 2 came out before League of Legends even originally released, soooo....
If anything is commendable about the game then it's that it's really well optimized (it run great on my laptop at near max settings even during CB), it should easily run on weaker systems. They went for Cell Shading-style visuals similar to League, those usually tend to run really well even on old hardware.
ISee
Member
It runs actually quiet fine on my 1080 @ 1440p. Everything is set to max but AA which is at medium. And that's one of the problems why people report about bad performance: What is medium AA? Low seems to be FXAA, high is probably msaa, but at what factor? I don't know. Also what is the difference between high, higher and max Image quality? Just the shadow resolution? Why don't you tell me Relic? Who designed such stupid, half baked and meaningless graphic options? How are people supposed to figure out what to use or to deactivate? We're talking about a PC exclusive release from a well know PC Studio and they weren't even able to design reliable, self explanatory and helpful graphic options.
DoW 3: Bad decision making, the game.
Eh I'm finding it it way better than DOW2 at least. There is a small tech tree and decisions still need to be made (e.g. do I go barracks or not, both valid). Sure it's not what I wanted overall, but I am still getting a kick out of out micro'ing my heavy bolters and watching them slay everything. I don't even feel heroes last nearly as long as some people make out, unless they are the big 10 point ones.
In some ways it reminds me of WC3 and that is only a good thing.
(I think Retreat would of still been a good thing to have in this).
In some ways it reminds me of WC3 and that is only a good thing.
(I think Retreat would of still been a good thing to have in this).
TheVoidDragon
Member
DoW2 was a change in direction but it didn't feel like that was the result of them just removing features, though. There were noticable attempts to improve things with DoW2, to me though DoW3 is a change in direction the ends up not doing anything as well as either DoW1 or 2, or even just DoW1 on its own with the combat and scale. There are just so many things in DoW3 that take away from the experience rather than add to it, like the lack of a retreat option when you're supposed to keep your units alive or army doctrines consisting of things that should just be upgrades. I don't see how this improves on any of the things the previous games did.
ThreePiMatt
Member
I'm running a 1070 and 1440p and the game has been running very very well.
My 970 runs it 60fps easy.
I can see some of your points, but a lot of it just comes down to MOBA's not inventing stuff that is in the game. They didn't invent smaller unit sizes (since the whole scale of DoW3 is different, not just the early units), nor stylized graphics. Heroes and their abilities were absolutely crucial in DoW2 and they did have skill shots. And you are completely incorrect about building placement, you definitely need to build outside your "safety bubble" to get units and reinforcement earlier.
And if anything DoW2 heroes had more MOBA-like abilities and upgrades. Here they are very bare bones.
In conclusion DoW3 is a 2017 game and naturally takes influences from any successful game that is even close to the genre, this includes mobas, but the outcry over it is ridiculous.
You're really misrepresenting this game. You have been for pages now, and it's incredibly frustrating because of quotes like above.
Well this is a convincing post. He described a specific hero from LoL, Jain Zar, not to mention the problems with the camera and the creeps...I mean units.
If he is misrepresenting the game, explain how.
I totally agree with anyone stating this is not Grim Dark enough. I have figured out a way to make it more Grim Dark by punching my eyes with my own fists severely enough to limit even the hint of light thru to my retinas, bringing down the brightness of my monitor, turning any lights off and boarding up all windows. (Do all these things first before punching your eyes to a pulpy mess. I got the order wrong... made everything else afterwards alot harder to accomplish)
Doing this, all the unappreciative colors seen in the game are removed. Just darkness... and blood. I can't see well with my own blood caking my face. Feeling light headed...
Doing this, all the unappreciative colors seen in the game are removed. Just darkness... and blood. I can't see well with my own blood caking my face. Feeling light headed...
This thread motivated me to reinstall DoW2 and Retribution. The attention to detail in DoW2 (and DoW1) is really good, especially as a 40k fan.
My dream Relic 40k game would've been a SP campaign like Dark Crusade with all of the factions playable, with some (persistent) base building and the tactical focus of DoW2.
My dream Relic 40k game would've been a SP campaign like Dark Crusade with all of the factions playable, with some (persistent) base building and the tactical focus of DoW2.
You know a gendra is dead when the major complaint about one of the rare new titles giving another shot at it is it sharing similar features to a gendra that ultimately was given birth by the now dead gendra, especially when most of those are nothing new to rts to begin with, in that case rts > moba > rip rts.
The circle is completed! The Ninth Layer of Hell is open to us!
I honestly don't mind the alleged "Moba-like" additions to DoW3, but I really really do miss the physics and cover system. To me, that was the magic of DoW2 (and CoH).
That said, even though I like this much less than DoW2, it's still a fuck ton of fun, and there really isn't any other game that serves this style anymore.
Unfortunatley, given the sheer amount of amazing games available to play, spending $72 CAD on DoWIII is absolutely not something I'm prepared to do. I'll happily pay $40 or so whenever it hits that price.
Until then.. ...anyone wanna play some DoWII?
That said, even though I like this much less than DoW2, it's still a fuck ton of fun, and there really isn't any other game that serves this style anymore.
Unfortunatley, given the sheer amount of amazing games available to play, spending $72 CAD on DoWIII is absolutely not something I'm prepared to do. I'll happily pay $40 or so whenever it hits that price.
Until then.. ...anyone wanna play some DoWII?
Berzerkiymc
Neo Member
saw it going cheaper on green man gaming. pondering sniping it there.
Anyone else buying for sure?
I didn't get to play much between the last closed beta and the open beta, but what I played never really grabbed me.
I don't think I'd call it a bad game. I thought both prior games were fun in their own ways, so I'm not someone who feels burned by DOW3 not being enough like one or the other. And I'm not an anti-moba person (though none of them have stuck with me long-term), so I don't mind moba-like ideas being experimented with. But each time I finished a match I found I wasn't really inspired to turn around and play another. It's just not very engaging to me for whatever reason.
Oh well. I'm already juggling too many games, and I still need to get Nier too, so no great loss I guess. :\
I don't think I'd call it a bad game. I thought both prior games were fun in their own ways, so I'm not someone who feels burned by DOW3 not being enough like one or the other. And I'm not an anti-moba person (though none of them have stuck with me long-term), so I don't mind moba-like ideas being experimented with. But each time I finished a match I found I wasn't really inspired to turn around and play another. It's just not very engaging to me for whatever reason.
Oh well. I'm already juggling too many games, and I still need to get Nier too, so no great loss I guess. :\
Mattdaddy
Gold Member
I played the multiplayer beta 3v3. I have no previous dawn of war multiplayer experience at all. The match time got to roughly over an hour and I feel like it was still at a complete stalemate. I don't know if it was just cause of 6 noobs with no experience or if matches usually take that long but man, I couldn't finish it. That thing might have gone another hour.
Despite that endurance slog, I thought the game looked cool and the carnage was excellent. Still in for the campaign, and hopefully there's some multiplayer options to shrink that time down I just can't commit 1.5 hours per match. Or maybe that's an anomoly and I just suck.
Despite that endurance slog, I thought the game looked cool and the carnage was excellent. Still in for the campaign, and hopefully there's some multiplayer options to shrink that time down I just can't commit 1.5 hours per match. Or maybe that's an anomoly and I just suck.
Karak
Member
I sadly just dont have the time
As for Jain Zar, those heroes share one skill (which is neither unique to Ahri in LoL, nor a unique skill at all - it's a boomerang). That's it. The other skill (which is a dash, "like" Ahri's ult) has a totally different function in the context of DoW 3, not to mention it is also a huge leap that slams the ground and knocks units up. Ragnar Blackmane said they literally copied Ahri and reskinned her for Dawn of War 3.
The line of sight blockers do work like the magic bushes in LoL, but LoL is not the only game to have line of sight blockers. Still, that comparison is apt.
I don't know what it means to say the camera is taken straight out of a MOBA game since MOBAs got their camera from RTS's that preceded them, and the two biggest MOBAs have cameras that differ from eachother.
I don't really get your joke about the units you build and micro and upgrade being "creeps". Ragnar's comparison to MOBAs in that regard doesn't really make sense either. They share similarities to units in many RTS's, and still manage to have unique properties.
The colored outlines are not unique to MOBAs (or even RTS's) and exists for a very specific reason - visual clarity. It's modern design, and it makes more sense for DoW 3 than the solutions other popular RTS's use because of the way your squads can be split up and broken.
The game mode that is shipping with Dawn of War 3 does have a specific objective that is inspired by (lifted from) MOBAs. DoW 3 still has a very unique flow of gameplay when compared, but as for the objective itself, that's absolutely true.
As for things like building placement and hero management, zoukka already addressed those in the same way I would.
I don't agree that the vivid colors of the game are lifted from LoL but you can see for yourself.
If someone does not like the game, that's fine! It's apparently a niche entry into an already niche series (in a somewhat niche genre these days). I'd just rather the conversation focus around what Dawn of War 3 actually is. Similarly, if you do not like it simply because it isn't like Dawn of War 1 or 2 enough in the way you want, that wouldn't bother me. That doesn't stop the game from being good at whatever it is trying to do, though.
After playing all day Saturday and Sunday, I'm certainly feeling the disappointment that many other people in this thread and elsewhere are.
My grievances, however, have less to do with art style, MOBA elements (attack the core might be my favorite new addition), or the lack of cover.
This game is very, very hard to play... at least, I found it difficult after years away from RTS games. I am just not used to the Starcraft level of micro necessary succeed in this game. DOW2 was a fast game, but the flow of combat through cover, buildings, and hard counter units slowed things down from other RTS contemporaries. That is all gone in this edition.
Things I struggled with:
- Losing center resource points in the opening moments of the game to listening post spam. Early game resource lockdown was common in DOW2 (Heavy Bolters in buildings and what have you) but the listening posts are very risky to push against for some army builds. Access to listening posts at tier 1 makes contesting them very hard until tier 2 or 3, and by that point your opponent(s) have amassed a much larger army. Perhaps the balance here is to be found in leaning into your backfoot and turtling behind shield generators, but I found that games in which I lost my early game resources were also games I lost.
- Insane micro necessary to keep giant blobs alive. This game lends itself to amassing giant numbers of units and pushing against heavily fortified foes. Attacks are already disadvantaged pushing against a heavily entrenched forward base, but hero units and orbital strikes make every push and every mismanaged unit a gamble. Yes, you can micro away from an electrical swarm or a meteor shower, but to do this while also fighting a turtled foe is painful.
- Race balance based on early, mid, and late game. Perhaps I'm off base here, but it seems to me that the Space Marine late game is just far too powerful. I've seen lots of talk about how sturdy Dreadnoughts and Predator Tanks are- these rumors are founded.
Trying to counter the spam of either of these units is very difficult. Obviously, I should never allow that many units to ever get fielded, either through resource denial or striking an early victory, but in a game with very good early game defensive options that can be an impossible task.
Yes, I'm aware that the Farseer and Wierdboy are great and many other elites outclass the SM, but if the SM can get their foot on a middle resource point early in the match they will have little trouble defending it until they get their walkers out.
All in all I actually enjoyed the game, but it's not my cup of tea. I just don't like smashing giant armies together in confused, bloody mosh pits. I liked the small scale of DOW2, and even COH1, to this system. If anything, I suppose you could say that I'm just not the RTS player I used to be and this game just plain isn't for me.
My grievances, however, have less to do with art style, MOBA elements (attack the core might be my favorite new addition), or the lack of cover.
This game is very, very hard to play... at least, I found it difficult after years away from RTS games. I am just not used to the Starcraft level of micro necessary succeed in this game. DOW2 was a fast game, but the flow of combat through cover, buildings, and hard counter units slowed things down from other RTS contemporaries. That is all gone in this edition.
Things I struggled with:
- Losing center resource points in the opening moments of the game to listening post spam. Early game resource lockdown was common in DOW2 (Heavy Bolters in buildings and what have you) but the listening posts are very risky to push against for some army builds. Access to listening posts at tier 1 makes contesting them very hard until tier 2 or 3, and by that point your opponent(s) have amassed a much larger army. Perhaps the balance here is to be found in leaning into your backfoot and turtling behind shield generators, but I found that games in which I lost my early game resources were also games I lost.
- Insane micro necessary to keep giant blobs alive. This game lends itself to amassing giant numbers of units and pushing against heavily fortified foes. Attacks are already disadvantaged pushing against a heavily entrenched forward base, but hero units and orbital strikes make every push and every mismanaged unit a gamble. Yes, you can micro away from an electrical swarm or a meteor shower, but to do this while also fighting a turtled foe is painful.
- Race balance based on early, mid, and late game. Perhaps I'm off base here, but it seems to me that the Space Marine late game is just far too powerful. I've seen lots of talk about how sturdy Dreadnoughts and Predator Tanks are- these rumors are founded.
Trying to counter the spam of either of these units is very difficult. Obviously, I should never allow that many units to ever get fielded, either through resource denial or striking an early victory, but in a game with very good early game defensive options that can be an impossible task.
Yes, I'm aware that the Farseer and Wierdboy are great and many other elites outclass the SM, but if the SM can get their foot on a middle resource point early in the match they will have little trouble defending it until they get their walkers out.
All in all I actually enjoyed the game, but it's not my cup of tea. I just don't like smashing giant armies together in confused, bloody mosh pits. I liked the small scale of DOW2, and even COH1, to this system. If anything, I suppose you could say that I'm just not the RTS player I used to be and this game just plain isn't for me.
I got it for $32 on cdkeys last month
Well written.
Relic has a dedicated fanbase, yet they do their damnedest to alienate us, by these sweeping gameplay changes.
DoW3 is simply not what the hardcore 40K RTS fans were expecting. You could reskin the art and give it a different name, and no one would be the wiser.
Same, got my key today btw, so they are starting to send them out.
TheVoidDragon
Member
I didn't get a chance to try all the unit/factions in the game, what sort of lore inconsistencies does DoW3 have other than those 3 things you mentioned? Really, the justification they gave for the bright colours was absurd. They said it was because they wanted it to look like the tabletop game, ignoring all the subtlties and changes real-life lighting makes to them and how they're not actually going to look like that in the universe (compare the art to the models and there's a huge difference), like how they're not even the right scale.
Something i've not really seen mentioned is the initial trailer they had and how that sort of showed they might not understand things too well now; they went for thin and tall Space Marines. It's something that on the surface seems inconsequential, but anyone who understands W40K should be able to realize that the whole idea goes completely against the setting, what Space Marines are should be able to see why it's just a bad idea to represent them in that way. The whole point of them is that they're these huge, tank-like Superhuman warriors, but they have unnatural speed for their size and weight, something you wouldn't expect from looking at them. To decide to go for unnaturally long/thin, agile-looking Marines suggests they really don't understand that despite it being one of the core aspects of W40K. Fortunately it was just for that trailer although there was concept art of it as well, but it was something that decision shouldn't have been made in the first place.
They are not making these games just for tabletop fans. And they already changed proportions and lore for DoW 1 and 2. I don't see any problems with the visuals in DoW3, it's one of the areas they did really well.
Agreed. I personally think the game looks great. Graphically and stylistically I have no problem with it. Though I do wish the units were easier to differentiate on the field. Didn't DoW2 solve this by adding icons over each type of unit?
As far as staying "true" to the 40k aesthetic, I never understood arguments like this when applied to fiction. Warhammer has always been fucking ridiculous. I don't see why changing anything about the lore or the style is a big deal. Every franchise goes through these types of changes.
The beta run smooth & looked good on my ancient i5 750 + gtx 760 pc @1080p
That's kind of been the wtf moments for me here as I read this thread. Not only are some of these elements from RTS first but I'm sitting her asking myself why that's a bad thing. RTS as a genre has been on the decline for a long time. Adopting more of it's elements since the moba genre has overtaken it or really grew out of it isn't that surprising.
I honestly don't know maybe it's me but didn't expect a game released in 2017 to be exactly like a game that was released in 2009 which also wasn't exactly like the first game that released in 2004. Also I could have just kept my expectations low. AllI wanted was a strategy game in the Warhammer 40K universe where I commanded units and had an interesting story. The details of how I expected it to play didn't even come to mind since there were so many ways of doing RTS. The only expectation and demand I had was that it ran well and had polish. It seems it does so I'm happy from a technical standpoint. I'll just learn the game and see how I liked on it's own merits tomorrow I guess.
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