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Twin Peaks Season 3 OT |25 Years Later...It Is Happening Again

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3

3rdman

Member
3rdman said:
Perhaps this has been considered but...

I think Audrey is still in a coma...I believe that her husband is actually a construct...her connection to the outside world. Her "husband" just found out about Richard and was keeping it from her to protect her.

Audrey in the scene doesn't even move...she is locked in place in fact. She has to rely on him to relay information that she would (in any previous incarnation of herself) get alone. She wouldn't never worry about going anywhere alone...Her "husband" in fact talks her out of going tot he Roadhouse and instead makes a phone call to get the info she wants.

On an aside, I'm pretty certain that somehow the conversation on the phone is in regards to Richard, the truck, and the guy Andy was trying to question several episodes ago. Thoughts?
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I called it!
VT7mt.gif


From the quick moment we see her in the mirror, she seems to be wearing white which could mean "hospital" or perhaps "mental hospital" but I guess we'll found out which next week. As others have pointed out, it seems that every scene in the Roadhouse we've been treated to that involved Billy or Tina was a dream of Audrey's?

Loved that episode so much...A few more random thoughts I had while watching...

It seems that those that are manufactured in the Lodge are different than doppelgangers. It seems from Cooper's actions, he'll be manufacturing a copy of himself...I would assume a lesser copy as well. If Dougie was a copy of Bad-Coop, he was created with the evil essence at his core. I would presume that being a copy of Good-Coop will make his replacement inherently good but "simple".

When Diane vanished, I legit jumped...I had the audio cranked up and the whoosh made me do the same. :p

Even though I was frustrated with the Dougie storyline, I knew that protracting Cooper's return was going to make the moment cathartic than simply appeasing the fans and it was. I even screamed "COOPER!" when he did his "I am the FBI" and the music swelled. #noshame :p

Loved the way Hutch and Chantel were dispatched...loved the Mitchum Bros reaction (People are under a lot of stress). Lynch has a way of making the random feel truly random and by extension, possible as only real life can be. The over-the-top way they died was a great payoff to those characters as well...I can only hope for an equally horrible end of Bad-Coop.

I have a question...Bad-Coop said that two of the three coordinates were the same and that they lead to the top of the rock. The coordinates that I know were given were by Diane (via Ruth's arm) and Philip Jeffries (via puffs of smoke)...who was the third?
 
V

Vectorman

Banned
Plum said:
You know I'm not talking about specific plot points, but the way things were structured, the acting, the meaningful story beats, etc. None of those would have made this episode any less powerful.
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Yeah just let the ones who are liking the show have their moment in the sun. This was a good episode but it certainly has alot to make up for in the next two episodes. No point in arguing until the full finale imo.
 
S

sappyday

Member
3rdman said:
I called it!
VT7mt.gif


From the quick moment we see her in the mirror, she seems to be wearing white which could mean "hospital" or perhaps "mental hospital" but I guess we'll found out which next week. As others have pointed out, it seems that every scene in the Roadhouse we've been treated to that involved Billy or Tina was a dream of Audrey's?

Loved that episode so much...A few more random thoughts I had while watching...

It seems that those that are manufactured in the Lodge are different than doppelgangers. It seems from Cooper's actions, he'll be manufacturing a copy of himself...I would assume a lesser copy as well. If Dougie was a copy of Bad-Coop, he was created with the evil essence at his core. I would presume that being a copy of Good-Coop will make his replacement inherently good but "simple".

When Diane vanished, I legit jumped...I had the audio cranked up and the whoosh made me do the same. :p

Even though I was frustrated with the Dougie storyline, I knew that protracting Cooper's return was going to make the moment cathartic than simply appeasing the fans and it was. I even screamed "COOPER!" when he did his "I am the FBI" and the music swelled. #noshame :p

Loved the way Hutch and Chantel were dispatched...loved the Mitchum Bros reaction (People are under a lot of stress). Lynch has a way of making the random feel truly random and by extension, possible as only real life can be. The over-the-top way they died was a great payoff to those characters as well...I can only hope for an equally horrible end of Bad-Coop.

I have a question...Bad-Coop said that two of the three coordinates were the same and that they lead to the top of the rock. The coordinates that I know were given were by Diane (via Ruth's arm) and Philip Jeffries (via puffs of smoke)...who was the third?
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Ray too I think.
 
C

CheesecakeRecipe

Stormy Grey
3rdman said:
I called it!
I have a question...Bad-Coop said that two of the three coordinates were the same and that they lead to the top of the rock. The coordinates that I know were given were by Diane (via Ruth's arm) and Philip Jeffries (via puffs of smoke)...who was the third?
Click to expand...

Ray had a copy of the coordinates on him, too, right?
 
V

VistraNorrez

Member
Plum said:
You know I'm not talking about specific plot points, but the way things were structured, the acting, the meaningful story beats, etc. None of those would have made this episode any less powerful.
Click to expand...

Saying this and actually executing it are two different things. You are calling for a drastically different vision all together. I struggle to think of what structurally can be changed comsiderig how may plot lines there are and when they have to unfold to get us to Part 16.

Part 16 could lose it's whole identity without Parts 1-15 being what they are. Warts and all. And we have yet to see how 17 & 18 unfold.
 
M

Master_Funk

Member
Solo said:
So is it possible that the Roadhouse scenes, at least the ones that didn't feature "real" people (like James, Shelley and Renee), were all part of whatever is going on with Audrey? We've seen a LOT of random people talking about a lot of other random people at the Roadhouse, with none of it so far related to the main thrusts of The Return. All constructs of Audrey's mind perhaps?
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yeah, i think all those random table conversations and the one last weeks with the girl crawling are all probably part of whatever is happening with Audrey. I wonder if something can be made of the musicians who played during those scenes vs the other scenes?
 
J

Joqu

Member
Finally got around to watching it and yeah, I fucking loved that. What an episode.

Regarding Cooper's sudden recovery, the way I see it his period as ''Dougie'' has been a part of it. He says it himself, "You've made my heart so full." I think part of the reason he comes across as so instantly well adjusted after being stuck in the black lodge is because he already had that time to recover surrounded by loved ones. He was clearly aware all that time, he has the memories. He just couldn't... reach out until now.

And I too was convinced something was very wrong with the Audrey scenes, so that was also quite the payoff. Very good stuff.
 
B

BenjaminBirdie

Banned
VistraNorrez said:
Saying this and actually executing it are two different things. You are calling for a drastically different vision all together. I struggle to think of what structurally can be changed comsiderig how may plot lines there are and when they have to unfold to get us to Part 16.

Part 16 could lose it's whole identity without Parts 1-15 being what they are. Warts and all. And we have yet to see how 17 & 18 unfold.
Click to expand...

While I agree, I think it's wrong to look at this as a "18-hour movie". At this point it's clear that it wasn't written, designed, edited, or constructed that way. I only mention that because in that context, 17 and 18 are irrelevant to how 1-16 have played out over the course of watching it.

I think people being disappointed so far is a totally valid reaction. I'm completely on board with every second of this season, but I get that it might not gel with some.
 
3

31GhostsIV

Banned
Ok, I'm calling it - Coop and Cole (and Albert) won't meet directly. The note he left with Mullins will be a tearjerker explaining that he's going to right Doppelcoop's wrongs and rid the world of him before disappearing again himself.

Can't wait until I get the chance to view it again. I'll probably do that before I watch GoT for the first time.

EverythingShiny said:
The AV Club review is up. Unsurprisingly this one got an A. :)
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I dunno, AV Club has been very hesitant to give A's for some reason, preferring to give A minuses and Bs.
 
A

asagami_

Banned
I watched episodes 13 to 15 yesterday. Now I'm ready yeaaah. And holy crap with the arm wrestle scene. I was expecting something like in The Fly but turn a lot better.

I would have watched this new episodes but Netlix Mexico update the series the mondays lol
 
B

Buttonbasher

Member
The moments of tension this episode were out of control.

The immediately sobering moment with Diane following Coopers return, followed by her slow walk to American Woman, was incredible dread.

The Audrey's Dance also legitimately scared me, for what it immediately meant. That whole scene is haunting.

God, this episode. This show is stunning.
 
3

3rdman

Member
31GhostsIV said:
Ok, I'm calling it - Coop and Cole (and Albert) won't meet directly. The note he left with Mullins will be a tearjerker explaining that he's going to right Doppelcoop's wrongs and rid the world of him before disappearing again himself.

Can't wait until I get the chance to view it again. I'll probably do that before I watch GoT for the first time.



I dunno, AV Club has been very hesitant to give A's for some reason, preferring to give A minuses and Bs.
Click to expand...

I think the note says to meet him in Twin Peaks...I am looking forward to Coop/Cole meeting for the first time. Thumbs up and all!
 
3

31GhostsIV

Banned
Bad Coop has been the source of some great deadpan comedy lines this season,

"that fucker Ray"
"You're nice and wet"
"Ray? Are you here? I came to see ya buddy"
"Goodbye, son"

Kyle needs to win all of the TV awards. ALL OF THEM.

Also, remember Mrs Hastings funny glitch when Bad Coop shot her? Tulpa? Hence "you followed human nature perfectly"
 
1

120v

Member
Solo said:
So is it possible that the Roadhouse scenes, at least the ones that didn't feature "real" people (like James, Shelley and Renee), were all part of whatever is going on with Audrey? We've seen a LOT of random people talking about a lot of other random people at the Roadhouse, with none of it so far related to the main thrusts of The Return. All constructs of Audrey's mind perhaps?
Click to expand...

well it'd explain why a backwater bar would score trent reznor, the chromatics, ect lol
 
V

Vyse The Legend

Member
Another amazing scene was Cooper telling the Mitchums the truth in the limo. Great acting all around, especially when Candie started to cry after Cooper says they had good hearts. "They really do." :')
 
P

Plum

Member
VistraNorrez said:
Saying this and actually executing it are two different things. You are calling for a drastically different vision all together. I struggle to think of what structurally can be changed comsiderig how may plot lines there are and when they have to unfold to get us to Part 16.

Part 16 could lose it's whole identity without Parts 1-15 being what they are. Warts and all. And we have yet to see how 17 & 18 unfold.
Click to expand...

I'm not meaning to imply that I wouldn't expect those to require a different direction, but I still think that Lynch could have made the show as he wanted without those "warts." The show didn't need to be 18 episodes and many of the plot lines either didn't need to be there or didn't need to take so long. Acting

As I've said multiple times, this show has some amazing moments but there's just too much fluff and too little overall plot coherency for me to rate the entire thing very highly.
 
J

JoJoShabadoo

Member
A few random thoughts on the episode:

  • The shot of Diane in the red room was great. I loved her almost robotic "I know, fuck you" response to Mike. It was probably a popular theory but I predicted she was from the Black Lodge after her first few appearances. Got a light?
  • Mr. C's "Goodbye son" was hilarious. Loved the shot of Richard's shadow approaching the rock before he got on it.
  • That almost Black Mirror twist of Audrey in what looks to be a mental facility was great! Good way to end the episode
  • Cooper's awakening was so abrupt that it was ridiculous, yet so so good. At this point I'm just along for the ride. His movements when he opened his eyes and ripped out the breathing tube immediately told the audience that it was Cooper.
  • It's funny how many people said that Cooper coming back "as if nothing happened" would be ridiculous, and here we are, everyone hailing it as the best episode! ;) I think some of us were in denial about needing Cooper in the show.

Looking forward to the finale!

Oh and the effects are definitely bad, but it's clear that Lynch wanted to do them himself so meh. I mean really I should say "dude hire a professional and leave the homemade special effects for your side projects" but you can't blame him really.
 
G

Goldmund

Member
31GhostsIV said:
Ok, I'm calling it - Coop and Cole (and Albert) won't meet directly. The note he left with Mullins will be a tearjerker explaining that he's going to right Doppelcoop's wrongs and rid the world of him before disappearing again himself.

Can't wait until I get the chance to view it again. I'll probably do that before I watch GoT for the first time.



I dunno, AV Club has been very hesitant to give A's for some reason, preferring to give A minuses and Bs.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'd be surprised if the old Dale Cooper made it out alive (still holding on to my prisoner exchange theory, swapping Dale for Laura). I also think it would dampen the impact of his otherworldly goodness. He is, to a greater degree than any other character (other than maybe his black mirror image), a relic of the past: he's the hypercompetent protagonist of the 80s, he's too good. He doesn't make sense as a single being anymore, having all that's good (also being good at all that matters) concentrated in him. This also puts him thematically in close proximity to Laura, who was a center, the linchpin/lynchpin of her community, carrying the burden of being "good", despite being flawed herself.

On one level the show is about time passed, whether it wants to or not, not just for its characters; it reassess, whether intentional or not, what a show like itself could be in today's world, if it should be.
 
3

3rdman

Member
The best thing about this show has been how incredibly difficult its been to predict its plot. If nothing else, they've kept me guessing right to the end (so far).
 
I

InaudibleWhispa

Member
I think if Cooper sat in the black lodge for 25 years then walked out as if nothing had happened it'd be jarring. But he's clearly very aware of what has happened and what needs to be done. He's immediately on the ball with dealing with Mr C and Mike/NuDougie Seed, he's experienced the love of Dougies family and his dealing with the Mitchums. This isn't a man who has just woke up from a 25 year coma, this is a man who, mentally, has already had the time he needs to take in whats going on and plan his actions, he was just waiting to be physically capable again.
 
V

Vyse The Legend

Member
3rdman said:
The best thing about this show has been how incredibly difficult its been to predict its plot. If nothing else, they've kept me guessing right to the end (so far).
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Agreed, though some things were telegraphed pretty well, like Diane being a fake.

I remember posting very early in the season that we have never met Diane before, so it's impossible for us to discern if she's acting abnormally or not. Then, Albert and Gordon both mentioned that she had changed by leaving the FBI and drinking heavily.

Heck, as recent as two weeks ago, I said she was likely a doppelganger, specifically after the Blue Rose story.

Vyse The Legend said:
Basically, the answer might boil down to: Everyone is a doppelganger. You're one too, maybe.
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Vyse The Legend said:
If she's being manipulated, I'd argue it's in a "do what I say or never see the real Coop again" sense.

However, if we entertain the doppelganger possibility, it's possible on that famous night, which Diane refuses to discuss, Mr. C took her into the Lodge and emerged with her doppelganger. The real Diane could still be there.
Click to expand...
 
J

JoJoShabadoo

Member
InaudibleWhispa said:
I think if Cooper sat in the black lodge for 25 years then walked out as if nothing had happened it'd be jarring. But he's clearly very aware of what has happened and what needs to be done. He's immediately on the ball with dealing with Mr C and Mike/NuDougie Seed, he's experienced the love of Dougies family and his dealing with the Mitchums. This isn't a man who has just woke up from a 25 year coma, this is a man who, mentally, has already had the time he needs to take in whats going on and plan his actions, he was just waiting to be physically capable again.
Click to expand...

True. Also, who's to say that from his perspective 25 years passed? Maybe it feels like 2 hours or one day. Just a blur of time and newfound knowledge that's giving him drive and a mission.

Maybe he'll get some introspective screentime in the finale, explaining to someone else what he experienced. Harry Truman better be back!
 
Z

Zombie James

Banned
shaneo632 said:
Still can't decide if I like the intentionally awful visual effects or not.
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The visual look of the season is really the only negative I have.

I wish there were more practical effects (like guns firing and some of the gore) or less effects in general. Like when Dougie and Diane went back to being seeds. I think it would have been better if they just cut to Gerard shielding his eyes and then cut back to the chair with the seed just there. Didn't need all that other stuff before.

I wish it was shot on film, too. They could have at least added some film grain.
 
I

InaudibleWhispa

Member
JoJoShabadoo said:
True. Also, who's to say that from his perspective 25 years passed? Maybe it feels like 2 hours or one day. Just a blur of time and newfound knowledge that's giving him drive and a mission.

Maybe he'll get some introspective screentime in the finale, explaining to someone else what he experienced. Harry Truman better be back!
Click to expand...

Yeah we don't know how time works in the lodge, or if he was concious enough to comprehend it (he's clearly not fully himself when sitting in that red room chair). Agreed though I hope he has a contemplative moment in which he can explain what he experienced a bit.
 
Z

Zach

Member
Oh. That beat-up-lookin' dude leaking nastiness in jail just repeats stuff he hears like Coop-as-Dougie. Huh. I don't know if I thought about that until now. I am a dumb man.

I can't handle this madness. I love it.
 
E

EmptyCanO'wupass

Member
The only thing about The Return that has really disappointed me is the portrayal of bad cooper. He's just kind of boring. In the original series the lodge-beings like Bob and the doppelgangers we see in the red room had a disturbing mania to them that's missing now. Doppelcoop's creepy smile and jitteriness in the season 2 finale was way more effective than the flat, sociopathy we get from the current depiction.
 
B

Buttonbasher

Member
EmptyCanO'wupass said:
The only thing about The Return that has really disappointed me is the portrayal of bad cooper. He's just kind of boring. In the original series the lodge-beings like Bob and the doppelgangers we see in the red room had a disturbing mania to them that's missing now. Doppelcoop's creepy smile and jitteriness in the season 2 finale was way more effective than the flat, sociopathy we get from the current depiction.
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I'm hoping that his proximity and showdown to the real Cooper will cause things to become more unhinged. I figure him being pulled back into the Lodge won't go down with his classic stoicism. Should be fun to watch!
 
B

BenjaminBirdie

Banned
EmptyCanO'wupass said:
The only thing about The Return that has really disappointed me is the portrayal of bad cooper. He's just kind of boring. In the original series the lodge-beings like Bob and the doppelgangers we see in the red room had a disturbing mania to them that's missing now. Doppelcoop's creepy smile and jitteriness in the season 2 finale was way more effective than the flat, sociopathy we get from the current depiction.
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he's been out for 25 years. i feel like 25 years after the first time i ate iced cream its not exactly the same level of happiness as the first
 
Z

Zach

Member
EmptyCanO'wupass said:
The only thing about The Return that has really disappointed me is the portrayal of bad cooper. He's just kind of boring. In the original series the lodge-beings like Bob and the doppelgangers we see in the red room had a disturbing mania to them that's missing now. Doppelcoop's creepy smile and jitteriness in the season 2 finale was way more effective than the flat, sociopathy we get from the current depiction.
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Sensational.

I am Charlie. And he is Billy. This is Doppelganger Cooper. And that was Killer BOB.
 
C

Courage

Member
EmptyCanO'wupass said:
The only thing about The Return that has really disappointed me is the portrayal of bad cooper. He's just kind of boring. In the original series the lodge-beings like Bob and the doppelgangers we see in the red room had a disturbing mania to them that's missing now. Doppelcoop's creepy smile and jitteriness in the season 2 finale was way more effective than the flat, sociopathy we get from the current depiction.
Click to expand...

I agree with you actually, it's a very by the numbers depiction of 'evil.' It's even more disappointing considering Bob is still 'with' him in some way. There's still been plenty of great scenes with him though, like when he finds Jeffries or the arm wrestling scene.
 
B

BenjaminBirdie

Banned
Haloid1177 said:
I think this is my fave TV moment ever.
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I think the Audrey sequence ran rings around it. That to me was the most powerful encapsulation of that lost time and tone matched with that deep unsettling vibe of Twin Peaks at its best.

It was also the least expected thing. (Even though I'd seen the spoiler).

When Coop came back and the music swelled of course I loved it but when that dude said "Audrey's Dance" I actually gasped.

It's like when Kate says to Jack in the LOST finale, "Leave." and it all comes together and you realize everything about the season and there's so much resonance.

The Cooper thing was great but I will never in my life forget the feeling of Audrey's Dance. Like in my fucking soul.
 
S

Solo

Member
BenjaminBirdie said:
While I agree, I think it's wrong to look at this as a "18-hour movie". At this point it's clear that it wasn't written, designed, edited, or constructed that way.
Click to expand...

I agree. This keeps being brought up, and while it's true that it was written as one large script and shot all in one go like a movie, I feel like it's also true that in the editing room this thing was transformed into 18 episodes. Look at episode 8. That insanity encompasses that entire episode and is rather self contained, by design.
 
B

Buttonbasher

Member
BenjaminBirdie said:
I think the Audrey sequence ran rings around it. That to me was the most powerful encapsulation of that lost time and tone matched with that deep unsettling vibe of Twin Peaks at its best.

It was also the least expected thing. (Even though I'd seen the spoiler).

When Coop came back and the music swelled of course I loved it but when that dude said "Audrey's Dance" I actually gasped.

It's like when Kate says to Jack in the LOST finale, "Leave." and it all comes together and you realize everything about the season and there's so much resonance.

The Cooper thing was great but I will never in my life forget the feeling of Audrey's Dance. Like in my fucking soul.
Click to expand...

Totally with you on this. That scene had a nightmarish, but tragic stillness that really got under my skin.
 
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