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[DxD]

Think that might have been the first time for me as well. Have a hard time thinking of something else. She was the best character as well.

Hell yes.
Ezmode with flowing jump lol.
Grab those eggs and throw it back to Birdo with ease.

 

[TatteredHat]

I personally don't really care that much, as long as the characters are compelling I'm down.

Interesting data, though.

 

[Alcotholic]

Of course guys don't care.
It's a "Fuck you, I've got mine" mentality.
I really hope there are more games with female only protagonists, to diversify. It can only be a good thing since it creates stronger empathy for another gender.

 

[Nekketsu Kõha]

Hell yes.
Ezmode with flowing jump lol.
Grab those eggs and throw it back to Birdo with ease.

Great memories.

Now I want to replay it. Might boot up the famicom classic and have a go since I have not really played it since the early 90's and now I own it again.

 

[LotusHD]

So you think a robot that has her ass exposed and her eyes covered was a more compelling character than Aloy?

I'm not saying Aloy is the end all be all of that 2B was bad but if you think you connected more with a hypersexualied high heels wearing ass exposing blindfolded woman (the eyes are a window to the soul after all) than with the best new videogame female protagonist we've had in years then it may help understand where you're coming from.

Don't need to put down 2B lmao, not everyone has to like Aloy, it's just an opinion.

 

[SgtCobra]

So you think a robot that has her ass exposed and her eyes covered was a more compelling character than Aloy?

I'm not saying Aloy is the end all be all of that 2B was bad but if you think you connected more with a hypersexualied high heels wearing ass exposing blindfolded woman (the eyes are a window to the soul after all) than with the best new videogame female protagonist we've had in years then it may help understand where you're coming from.

I don't care about 2B but c'mon not everyone needs to like the same character you do.

 

[Danjin44]

So you think a robot that has her ass exposed and her eyes covered was a more compelling character than Aloy?

I'm not saying Aloy is the end all be all of that 2B was bad but if you think you connected more with a hypersexualied high heels wearing ass exposing blindfolded woman (the eyes are a window to the soul after all) than with the best new videogame female protagonist we've had in years then it may help understand where you're coming from.

Maybe u should play Nier Automata before judge her entire character.
I Played both Horizen and Nier Automata to completion and yeah I pefer 2B waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than Aloy.

 

[blummer102]

I do agree with this, but let me use your example to develop an idea even further.



In this case, we could have had a Valkyrie Profile with a male lead, however, it would probably be a vastly different game than the one we actually got and, probably, a lot less interesting. Just as a reminder, there is one in the DS that the protagonist is male and he wants to get revenge against the Valkyrie (I think, I played very little of that game).

In this series, my guess is that the story depended more on how the developer wanted to portray the legend of the Valkyrie. In the two first games, the main character was a Valkyrie herself thus there couldn't be any other leads expect a female one. In the DS game, the developer chooses a male lead so the point of view would have to be of how someone else (a 3rd party) sees and interacts with the legend.

While I wouldn't say we would never got Valkyrie Profile, it would be a drastically different experience just because the point of view was changed. This is one of the cases where the mythos justifies even more the use of a female lead and, IMO, enchances the actual lore of the game itself. Bayonetta, with the legend of Witches, does the same.

In another topic, the first two Trails in the Sky games have Estelle as the main lead and I doubt anyone else would have it any other way. In this case, there is no mythology to support why Estelle (or the main character position) must be female, however, the developers did such a great job with her that the story probably wouldn't work as well as it did in any other way.

I think those are the actual good examples of how to develop female leads, instead of just putting one there just for the sake of it.

Dope post, good analysis. I never played much of the DS one but enjoyed the original for the exact reasons you stated.

 

[nkarafo]

Just as important as male protagonists. They are all important. Creative freedom is what i care for the most though.

 

[Soar]

Just as important as male protagonists. They are all important. Creative freedom is what i care for the most though.

This. Both equally important, but should fit the story the creator wants to tell rather than the other way around. My GOAT is Automata, second is PST so if handled well both works.

 

[Q8D3vil]

More horizon less tomb raider, thanks.
They need to add women as enemy too, im tired of hearing guys scream when i shoot and stab them.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

Of the big games I've played this year with humanoid protagonists - NieR: Automata, Horizon: Zero Dawn, Yakuza 0 and Uncharted: The Lost Legacy - only one of them has only male playable protagonists and, honestly, not a single thing was lost in any of those games based on the gender of the main character. More diversity is important. Not every game is going to sell well, not every game is going to be critically acclaimed but that's not down to the playable character, it's down to the game. Make good games and make sensible choices with playable characters. It is important.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

i don't care what gender the protag is but i always choose a female character only b/c i know they keep stats on what's selected and shit like that and i want them to create more just for the sake of it

Spoiler

so in the end i do care! plot twist

 

[Staf]

I mean, i don't really care since i'm happy as long as the character is well-written. But since there clearly is a lot of people who want more female protagonists i'm obviously for it. More gamers happy > less gamers happy.

And if it means we get more Aloy's i'm even more for it as well lol, she is really cool.

 

[LotusHD]

i don't care what gender the protag is but i always choose a female character only b/c i know they keep stats on what's selected and shit like that and i want them to create more just for the sake of it

Spoiler

so in the end i do care! plot twist

Haha nice

 

[timetokill]

Quantic Dream: Just How Important Are Shower Scenes For Female Protagonists?


On topic, I think the bigger issue is having linear, big-budget, story-focused games with solely female protagonists. Horizon got a lot of attention for it (rightfully so) but unfortunately you still see series like Uncharted relegating their female-focused stories to "side-stories" instead of main numbered entries. I think there's still a lot of perceived "risk" of alienating male gamers with a game where you have to play as a woman. But honestly those games need to be made.

 

[Animagne]

The question to me sounds extremely flawed. Having the option to play as female protagonist? I pick a lot of female characters when given an option, to have more variety in my games. It's extremely rare where that the option is anything better than just the look of your character. If the protagonist isn't silent, I would even say it's frequently detrimental to have that option.

Having protagonist role written to fit the character? (Horizon, Lost Legacy) Yes, please. We definitely need more of those.

 

[capnjazz]

Maybe u should play Nier Automata before judge her entire character.
I Played both Horizen and Nier Automata to completion and yeah I pefer 2B waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than Aloy.

I also played both and I prefer 2B by a long shot. I sympathized with Aloy for being ostracized but her bland personality and always cracking boring jokes got old after a while. I'd like to see less Aloy-like protagonists and more Alyx Vance-like protagonists.

 

[Laiza]

The double standard over whether or not female protagonists even get to exist dependent on whether or not they're "well-written" is quite irritating. Like was already said in this thread a few times, if male characters get to be bland and flavorless and still exist then there's no reason to restrain female protagonists from getting the same treatment. Obviously, in an ideal world I'd rather they not be generic self-inserts with minimal-to-no spoken words, but equality means taking both the ups and the downs, and I'll happily take the downsides if it means actual representation.

All that said... As I am basically a unicorn in my genderqueer-ness and only get representation once in a third blue moon (see: Kino's Journey), this is all pretty irrelevant to me. The only time I ever get representation is if I make it myself with a character creator, so, eh. There's a reason I've been sticking with RPGs for most of my playtime lately...

 

[nel e nel]

I like diversity that has a purpose, not diversity just to fit marketing option b. Minority stories need to be done with more justice; i think a game like mafia 3 is how things should be done.

We currently suffer from a lack of diversity due to marketing option a.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

On topic, I think the bigger issue is having linear, big-budget, story-focused games with solely female protagonists. Horizon got a lot of attention for it (rightfully so) but unfortunately you still see series like Uncharted relegating their female-focused stories to "side-stories" instead of main numbered entries. I think there's still a lot of perceived "risk" of alienating male gamers with a game where you have to play as a woman. But honestly those games need to be made.

That would be the one case where I'd say it would be doing it because you felt a pressure to other than making sense. It would be like Indiana Jones suddenly being replaced by a female protagonist in the third film. In the line of a franchise with an established lead it makes complete sense to have other characters narratives told independently.

There needs to be more franchises built around female leads, not just trying to shoe-horn them in to existing ones with an iconic male character.

 

[martino]

the more the game is narraitive and the narration involve the playable character the less choice of gender make sense (whatever the gender)
this must be taken into consideration.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Of course guys don't care.
It's a "Fuck you, I've got mine" mentality.
I really hope there are more games with female only protagonists, to diversify. It can only be a good thing since it creates stronger empathy for another gender.

I think sometimes it helps the situation and discussion to not project one's own misgivings about an (important issue) onto others as a knee-jerk reaction, and try to understand what some poster's are actually saying.

In a perfect world, with equal representation, no-one should care whether the protagonist of a story in a game is male or female. Of course, we don't live in a perfect world, but the question posed in the study and the OP isn't clear whether or not the intent is to divorce the question from the context of the real-world we live in, and understand conceptually whether gender is important in our preference for game protagonists.

I interpret a lot of the responses in this thread to be exactly this: "[In a perfect world] I don't care about the gender of the game protagonist. I can enjoy a game regardless."

Had the question in the OP/study been framed differently, e.g. "Do we need more female protagonists in gaming?" I think both the responses from male respondents in the study and many of the responses in this thread would be completely different.

Sure you can argue that the context is implied, but if the intent of the study is to canvass real people's opinions on the subject, why leave anything open to interpretation or ambiguity?

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

That would be the one case where I'd say it would be doing it because you felt a pressure to other than making sense. It would be like Indiana Jones suddenly being replaced by a female protagonist in the third film. In the line of a franchise with an established lead it makes complete sense to have other characters narratives told independently.

There needs to be more franchises built around female leads, not just trying to shoe-horn them in to existing ones with an iconic male character.

No reason why we can't do both. Launching new IP is becoming an increasingly difficult and risky proposal for most developers and publishers because of the ballooning dev and marketing budgets required to create critical and commercial successes in this very competitive AAA games industry.

Given this fact, it makes sense completely to explore side stories in established franchises grooming audiences on a new female protagonist. It mitigates commercial risk while allowing developers to explore both different narrative themes as well as different gameplay possibilities in spin-off titles, based within already established and beloved game worlds. As far as i'm concerned it's a win-win.

 

[redcrayon]

It would have been cool to see results for a 'how important is a male protagonist to you' question, if only to put the desire for a male lead amongst various players on the same level. Otherwise it's partly making the same industry mistake that led to the survey, of treating desire for a male one as default and female ones as a special interest topic. Still, interesting results.

 

[Prithee Be Careful]

For me, protagonist gender has never played a strong defining role in the games I choose to play. Going all the way back to RE: Director's Cut, an insecure, immature teenage boy version of me picked Jill Valentine every time, because she started with a lockpick, a pistol and two extra slots in her inventory - Chris rocks up with a kitchen knife and a lighter.

That said, I understand that while largely a superficial choice in game design, the presentation of women in popular media is really important. 2017 has actually been a game changer: Aloy, 2B, Kat, Senua, Chloe Frazer, Nadine Ross, Avalon Darrow,.. it doesn't make a whole heap of difference to how much fun those games are to play (to me at least), but as a contribution towards the broader social recognition of women, I think it's brilliant.

As an addendum, it's been nice to see broader representation for men too. To see how out of place a character like BJ Blaskowicz looks this generation compared to his contemporaries.

The square-jawed, wise-cracking, roid-machine-style men of last generation are increasingly giving way to more thoughtful, nuanced and emotionally mature characters driven less by violence and bravado and more by emotional short-comings. The core struggles of characters like Nathan Drake, Geralt of Rivia and Joel from TLOU, while all hero achetypes in the game tradition, centre more around their ability to act as competent parent figures, deal with personal loss or, in the case of Drake, hold together a marriage and understand consequences.

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

So which % category do I fall under with "as long as they're interesting, I don't give a shit if they're a male or female" ? :S

 

[dralla]

The results are not surprising at all. Diversity is a great thing and we definitely need more women (and other minorities) protagonists. A game instantly becomes more intriguing to me if the protag is not a straight white dude with brown hair. For example, I would not have enjoyed Uncharted Lost Legacy as much if it weren't for Chloe and Nadine being the leads (Laura Bailey controversy aside).

 

[Karu]

It's that attitude that led to lead protagonists being dominated by men.

Gotta tackle the issue head on instead of being apathetic.

I have no idea what the previous poster meant, but when I would say that I don't care either way, I mean that it doesn't play into my purchase decision. For all I care 90% of all AAA games and beyond could star lead female protagonist and I probably would buy the very same games I did before. Having said that, from a more "big picture"-perspective it is very important and I am very glad that is reflected in the survey. Playing only to one gender in terms of storytelling is so infuriatingly narrow and stupid, I am not able to comprehend - the entire medium can only suffer from such a world view and it would deserve all the disrespect in the world for that; and that is not even to speak of general representation in the media and its effect on the youth and whatnot.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I also played both and I prefer 2B by a long shot. I sympathized with Aloy for being ostracized but her bland personality and always cracking boring jokes got old after a while. I'd like to see less Aloy-like protagonists and more Alyx Vance-like protagonists.

You prefer passive protagonists whose sole motivations are to coddle the male hero's ego?

 

[Aters]

So you think a robot that has her ass exposed and her eyes covered was a more compelling character than Aloy?

I'm not saying Aloy is the end all be all of that 2B was bad but if you think you connected more with a hypersexualied high heels wearing ass exposing blindfolded woman (the eyes are a window to the soul after all) than with the best new videogame female protagonist we've had in years then it may help understand where you're coming from.

Or maybe, just maybe, some people simply prefer 2B because they think she has a more interesting story.

 

[MorshuTheTrader]

An interesting side note: I find it fascinating how people who don't really play video games see them. This is reflected here in the fact that "casual" players put much more emphasis on who you play as when compared to "hardcore" players.

Anecdotally, I was playing the newest Tomb Raider and my wife (who doesn't play any games outside of a few puzzle games on her phone) was watching a bit. She noted that it was strange for me to play a game as a girl. I said that I'm not sure why it would bother me. I then thought that she would probably feel the same strangeness for her playing a game as a guy.

As someone who plays a lot of games, I don't really realize that who you play as may have a greater effect on more casual players and may actually prevent some women from getting into games, given that the majority contain male leads.

 

[Ordinaryundone]

So you think a robot that has her ass exposed and her eyes covered was a more compelling character than Aloy?

I'm not saying Aloy is the end all be all of that 2B was bad but if you think you connected more with a hypersexualied high heels wearing ass exposing blindfolded woman (the eyes are a window to the soul after all) than with the best new videogame female protagonist we've had in years then it may help understand where you're coming from.

Ok, so you haven't played Nier: Automata. Should have led with that.

 

[Ache]

While not directly related to this study on video games, I came upon something interesting yesterday. I was looking for some inspiration on what fantasy novel to read next so I browsed youtube for a couple of recommended fantasy lists. Firstly there were way more videos done by female youtubers than male youtubers. I watched maybe 4 videos going by what videos had the most views, coincidentally all by female youtubers. Of all the books mentioned in those lists only one had a male protagonist and male author, this was out of 20 books/series. So to many female fantasy readers female protagonists seem to be very important. I can´t see why that would not be true for a lot of female gamers. So there should absolutely be more games available that cater to this preference.
Imho it should also be aknowledged though that the same might be true for male gamers and that it is perfectly fine for them to prefer male protagonists (I know I do) and may not be as stoked about the majority of female led games in comparison to female gamers.

 

[Kthulhu]

So you think a robot that has her ass exposed and her eyes covered was a more compelling character than Aloy?

I'm not saying Aloy is the end all be all of that 2B was bad but if you think you connected more with a hypersexualied high heels wearing ass exposing blindfolded woman (the eyes are a window to the soul after all) than with the best new videogame female protagonist we've had in years then it may help understand where you're coming from.

You've clearly never played Neir Automata.

 

[NahaNago]

I don’t care who or what the character is, as long as it’s done well.

I'm pretty much mostly the same. As long as the character is interesting, or world, or story is interesting then I'll play, watch, or read it. Now would i like more characters similar to me , sure , but its not a requirement. Plus finding games, movies , or books that star a half black, half Asian characters is extremely rare.

 

[redcrayon]

While not directly related to this study on video games, I came upon something interesting yesterday. I was looking for some inspiration on what fantasy novel to read next so I browsed youtube for a couple of recommended fantasy lists. Firstly there were way more videos done by female youtubers than male youtubers. I watched maybe 4 videos going by what videos had the most views, coincidentally all by female youtubers. Of all the books mentioned in those lists only one had a male protagonist and male author, this was out of 20 books/series. So to many female fantasy readers female protagonists seem to be very important. I can´t see why that would not be true for a lot of female gamers. So there should absolutely be more games available that cater to this preference.
Imho it should also be aknowledged though that the same might be true for male gamers and that it is perfectly fine for them to prefer male protagonists (I know I do) and may not be as stoked about the majority of female led games in comparison to female gamers.

Interesting post. This is a bit off-topic (sorry) but I've been looking for fantasy books by female authors recently to recommend to my daughter, after I looked at my bookcase and realised that, despite a lifelong interest in sci-fi and fantasy, the writers were about 80% male authors. I did read all the Anne McCaffrey books when I was a teenager, and Robin Hobb is one of my modern favourites, but I've been trying to work out what the cause of the lopsided proportion on my bookcase was (I'm male, if it matters).
I think the main conclusion I reached was the vastly higher amount of advertising of books by the more popular male authors- Im a busy adult and keep a list of interesting books and films I hear about on my phone, to check out later, and most of the stuff that crosses my eyesight/path is by male authors. Secondly, Amazon's kindle store, when emailing me recommendations or showing 'other customers also bought' bombards me with male authors. I have to go to some effort to look for new female authors (it's easiest to go into a bookshop, just picked up Godblind by Anna Stephens) whereas publishers seem to have multiple channels using analytics or an ad budget to put books by male authors under my nose all the time. I don't feel like I have a particular preference for male writers, but I do seem to get exposed to their work more easily.

I didn't realise there was so much on YouTube, am a bit analogue in that sense, will check that out though!

 

[Lunar15]

There's just so much untapped potential. People complain that stories are getting rote when there's just so many stories, characters, and viewpoints that aren't really being covered.

And if you really want to speak to the economics of it, it's an untapped gold-mine.

 

[Silent Hill]

Quantic Dream: Just How Important Are Shower Scenes For Female Protagonists?

Ethan in Heavy Rain had a shower scene.

 

[Akuun]

deleted

 

[hotcyder]

Put me in the extremely camp. I want more marginalised people in leading roles, or at least behind the creative process of games. Diverse people bring diverse ideas to games - and we need new ideas more then ever to improve the medium.

I still think about how Bioshock: Infinite could of been a far more interesting game if played from the perspective of a person of colour, or even through Elizabeth. To anyone who would say "that wouldn't fit the story" - you probably aren't thinking of the infinite opportunities.

 

[hotcyder]

Ok, so you haven't played Nier: Automata. Should have led with that.

They could of came up with the most dynamite concrete excuse for why 2B is designed like she is, but beyond any literary gymnastics they did in game - her design came down purely to that's how Yoko Taro wanted it.

And sure, as the creator of the game, he has the right to choose whatever character design he wants.

But that also gives people the choice to judge a book by its cover and say it's a bad character design, and the idea of looking at this character while playing the game has put me off buying it.

I've played the game, I think the design is awful - though it didn't detract from my enjoyment of the game, but I ain't going to be smug about someone who prefers Aloys design over 2B to the point that they'd rather spend their money on Horizon over Nier: Automata.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

Given this fact, it makes sense completely to explore side stories in established franchises grooming audiences on a new female protagonist. It mitigates commercial risk while allowing developers to explore both different narrative themes as well as different gameplay possibilities in spin-off titles, based within already established and beloved game worlds. As far as i'm concerned it's a win-win.

Did you read the post I was replying to..?
I'm really not sure what angle you're trying to come in at considering I was replying to this:

On topic, I think the bigger issue is having linear, big-budget, story-focused games with solely female protagonists. Horizon got a lot of attention for it (rightfully so) but unfortunately you still see series like Uncharted relegating their female-focused stories to "side-stories" instead of main numbered entries. I think there's still a lot of perceived "risk" of alienating male gamers with a game where you have to play as a woman. But honestly those games need to be made.

With:

That would be the one case where I'd say it would be doing it because you felt a pressure to other than making sense. It would be like Indiana Jones suddenly being replaced by a female protagonist in the third film. In the line of a franchise with an established lead it makes complete sense to have other characters narratives told independently.

You effectively reiterated what I said despite framing it as a disagreement...

 

[LotusHD]

Snip

Well, this all started because the person didn't like that someone liked 2B as a character/their personality more than Aloy's, to the point of nearly sounding offended about the thought of someone preferring her to Aloy. Hell, the person didn't even bring up 2B specifically, they also listed Kat and Chloe/Nadine as well. I don't know why he brought up the character's design in that context tbh when that wasn't being discussed to begin with. So people saying "Ah, they must not have played the game" are saying that because it's a safe bet that those that played the game would be aware of her characterization and why it isn't exactly blasphemous to like her more.

If he wants to "judge a book by its cover", then... sure, go ahead I guess. But in the context of what they were speaking about, it makes him look silly.

 

[pezzie]

Think that might have been the first time for me as well. Have a hard time thinking of something else. She was the best character as well.

Metroid?

Three of the four full priced games I've beaten this year had leading female characters, and all four games I've played and beaten this year are among the best I've enjoyed. Nier Automata, Persona 5, Tales of Berseria, and Horizon Zero Dawn. I'm enjoying this trend and I hope it continues. Part of what makes games great is being able to see the world from the point of view of the characters you play as, and getting something different through more female leads is always a welcome change.

 

[yukimeans_snow]

It's that attitude that led to lead protagonists being dominated by men.

Gotta tackle the issue head on instead of being apathetic.

He wasn't being apathetic, he was implying that he would more appreciate a well-written protagonist, than a protagonist who has "female" as her first bullet point.

If gender is on the top of your priority list when creating a character, you're already doing it wrong.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Did you read the post I was replying to..?
I'm really not sure what angle you're trying to come in at considering I was replying to this:



With:



You effectively reiterated what I said despite framing it as a disagreement...

The bolded was exactly my intent. I wasn't trying to disagree with you at all, rather just adding additional context as to why I think exploring female leads in established franchises is a more commercially viable and less risky option for many of the big publishers.

So I was in actual fact agreeing with your perspective and disagreeing with the sentiment, in the post you were replying to, that "shoehorning" female leads into side story and spin off adventures is even a bad thing.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

The bolded was exactly my intent. I wasn't trying to disagree with you at all, rather just adding additional context as to why I think exploring female leads in established franchises is a more commercially viable and less risky option for many of the big publishers.

So I was in actual fact agreeing with your perspective and disagreeing with the sentiment, in the post you were replying to, that "shoehorning" female leads into side story and spin off adventures is even a bad thing.

Ah sorry man, you completely threw me for a loop and I thought you were being critical. Complete agreement there, would love to see diverse new IP's and new branches from strong existing ones.

 

[PK Gaming]

He wasn't being apathetic, he was implying that he would more appreciate a well-written protagonist, than a protagonist who has "female" as her first bullet point.

If gender is on the top of your priority list when creating a character, you're already doing it wrong.

Except he totally was.

His post is pretty apathetic to the importance of female representation. "I don't care who or what the character is, as long as it's done well." Well no fucking shit. There isn't a person alive who wants poorly written protagonists. The problem is that the majority of protagonists are male, and that women find female protagonists to be highly important, a need that's been barely addressed in gaming.

We shouldn't just be satisfied with what we have. The status quo isn't fine, and the fact games with female leads have resonated with so many people is proof that we're on the right track.

Representation matters. Diversity matters. So they are both very important.

Also this.

 

[capnjazz]

You prefer passive protagonists whose sole motivations are to coddle the male hero's ego?

If that's how you took my post, sure. Anything besides another character like Aloy. I think she was just as bad, if not worse, than your generic white male protagonist. I much prefer Vance and 2B as I consider them more well written.