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[bitbydeath]

Doesn’t matter if you were a McDonalds employee, bank manager, rock star, president etc

What if everyone took home the exact same salary as long as they contributed to 7 hours a day in society. People aren’t seeking to be cleaners because of how lucrative it is. People actually enjoy it. Same for other tough jobs such as painting, scientist or teaching.

I could see housing becoming affordable, people will be seeking jobs for passion and not money. We may even have more money leftover for funding projects that help everyone.

What’s everyone else think?

 

[llien]

The main problem with "work for free/get money no matter what" is motivation.
You should either be willing to do things, or be threatened with consequences for not doing things.

In your model, who would do shitty jobs that kill? Or shitty jobs, that (literally) stink?

 

[bitbydeath]

The main problem with "work for free/get money no matter what" is motivation.
You should either be willing to do things, or be threatened with consequences for not doing things.

In your model, who would do shitty jobs that kill? Or shitty jobs, that (literally) stink?

Same people who do them and enjoy them now. They’re not the highest paying jobs around.

 

[llien]

Same people who do them and enjoy them now. They’re not the highest paying jobs around.

I'd dare to assume, that most people doing it, do it, because they have no better choice and not at all, because they enjoy it.

 

[bitbydeath]

I'd dare to assume, that most people doing it, do it, because they have no better choice and not at all, because they enjoy it.

Either way nothing will change for them. They’d still need the drive and skill to do the job.

They may even end up getting paid more.

 

[Punchpudding]

Assuming this rule applies to a country:

If your pay is high, companies leave your country due to expensive labour. Workers leave when there are no companies to create jobs.

If the pay is low, high skill workers leave to earn more. Companies leave when there are not enough skilled workers.

Assuming you try to find the amount that is *just right*, it will probably be appropriate for one specific industry but all other industries fall into one of the situations above. Those industries collapse leaving one industry that has to support the entire country until it too collapses.

 

[5secondrulesucks]

pay me to party

 

[Dunki]

Another part would be the expertise level. People getting paid based by their importance to this company and how do you decide who gets the quallified work and who gets the other one? It would be absolute impoosible to do this.

 

[llien]

Either way nothing will change for them. They’d still need the drive and skill to do the job.

Oh, I assumed you could not be unemployed with your system.

You are basically removing financial incentive.

I think some of the Scandinavian countries have softer version of it, with head of the faculty at university receiving only 30% more than his secretary.

 

[bitbydeath]

Assuming this rule applies to a country:

If your pay is high, companies leave your country due to expensive labour. Workers leave when there are no companies to create jobs.

If the pay is low, high skill workers leave to earn more. Companies leave when there are not enough skilled workers.

Assuming you try to find the amount that is *just right*, it will probably be appropriate for one specific industry but all other industries fall into one of the situations above. Those industries collapse leaving one industry that has to support the entire country until it too collapses.

Company founders would also get paid the same. Lower pay but they’d live comfortably and not be in fear of debt providing their product is still valuable.

 

[Tevious]

What motivation would there be to get an education and become something like a surgeon if you could just bag groceries instead for the same pay? This kind of model just doesn't work.

 

[bitbydeath]

Another part would be the expertise level. People getting paid based by their importance to this company and how do you decide who gets the quallified work and who gets the other one? It would be absolute impoosible to do this.

They’d need to work for more control of a company, that’d be the benefit as opposed to money.

 

[bitbydeath]

What motivation would there be to get an education and become something like a surgeon if you could just bag groceries instead for the same pay? This kind of model just doesn't work.

Bagging groceries is not a great job, you’d get a much bigger high saving someones life.

 

[GMAK2442]

This would not please the big Boss at all.

Naturally, I'd be happy but I doubt the other people that has power would be.

 

[Punchpudding]

Company founders would also get paid the same. Lower pay but they’d live comfortably and not be in fear of debt providing their product is still valuable.

Why would they stay in your country if they can earn more elsewhere?

 

[bitbydeath]

Why would they stay in your country if they can earn more elsewhere?

Point is they wouldn’t need to earn more to live comfortably.

 

[Punchpudding]

Point is they wouldn’t need to earn more to live comfortably.

Given the choice between a Yaris and a Ferrari, you wouldn't take the Ferrari? Many people would.

 

[Cato]

Soviet Union kind of tried that. It just leads to most people not even trying to do their job properly, because why should they?
They get paid the same if they just sit and drink vodka instead of actually working.

You can also see places like Slab City which is a really good example of what happens when people just do what they want and are not motivated by a job


Basically, everyone becomes an "artist" and there is no one around to keep the garbage off the streets.


Same pay for everyone and maybe even UBI, so you get the same money whether you "work" or not.
That happens then we will all live in slab city.

 

[bitbydeath]

Given the choice between a Yaris and a Ferrari, you wouldn't take the Ferrari? Many people would.

What if they could get the ferrari though or something even better given the workers who make and supply it all get paid the same too.

 

[Tevious]

Bagging groceries is not a great job, you’d get a much bigger high saving someones life.

You got to be joking. Without incentives like higher pay, people just wouldn't do high stress jobs like that.

If you ever become a leader of a country, your health care system is going to suck.

 

[bitbydeath]

You got to be joking. Without incentives like higher pay, people just wouldn't do high stress jobs like that.

If you ever become a leader of a country, your health care system is going to suck.

I disagree. It’s like saying nobody would ever exercise because it’s hard. There are people with passions for those jobs and that’s who you want in the role, not someone just there for money who would likely do a worse job.

 

[bitbydeath]

Soviet Union kind of tried that. It just leads to most people not even trying to do their job properly, because why should they?
They get paid the same if they just sit and drink vodka instead of actually working.

Wouldn’t people slacking off get fired? You won’t get the money if you’re not doing the job or doing it properly, todays rules should still apply in that area.

 

[bitbydeath]

Same pay for everyone and maybe even UBI, so you get the same money whether you "work" or not.

You wouldn’t get the same money if you didn’t work. You must contribute to society to get paid.

 

[Cato]

I disagree. It’s like saying nobody would ever exercise because it’s hard. There are people with passions for those jobs and that’s who you want in the role, not someone just there for money who would likely do a worse job.

I can tell you right now, in the car factory I worked in during breaks when I was a student,
not a single person there would pick option b in :
a, you get the same pay buy you don't have to do all this heavy, back destroying labor, you can even stay home and drink vodka all day but you will still get paid the same.
b, everything stays the same. You keep working like you always did. Every second week is the early shift and you work from 3am until noon.

There will be no cars at all, any brand, in your future.

 

[Punchpudding]

What if they could get the ferrari though or something even better given the workers who make and supply it all get paid the same too.

Why would a worker build/design something as sophisticated as a Ferrari (or anything beyond bare necessities) if they got paid the same for throwing together a piece of junk.

 

[Cato]

You wouldn’t get the same money if you didn’t work. You must contribute to society to get paid.

Cool, so everyone chooses to contribute to society by become an artist as their job instead and still no one works the 3am until noon shift every second week in the car factory.

How will you get people to volunteer the crap job in the factory? Are you going to use force and state violence to force people to the factory?
Or you accept that no one will have cars since no one wants to work in the factory.

 

[bitbydeath]

I can tell you right now, in the car factory I worked in during breaks when I was a student,
not a single person there would pick option b in :
a, you get the same pay buy you don't have to do all this heavy, back destroying labor, you can even stay home and drink vodka all day but you will still get paid the same.
b, everything stays the same. You keep working like you always did. Every second week is the early shift and you work from 3am until noon.

There will be no cars at all, any brand, in your future.

A. You would lose your job if you slacked off.

B. I’ve known plenty of mechanics who love the job. They’d also likely get paid more and could afford better housing.

 

[bitbydeath]

Why would a worker build/design something as sophisticated as a Ferrari (or anything beyond bare necessities) if they got paid the same for throwing together a piece of junk.

They’d probably want one for themselves which would drive incentive to make it.

 

[bitbydeath]

Cool, so everyone chooses to contribute to society by become an artist as their job instead and still no one works the 3am until noon shift every second week in the car factory.

How will you get people to volunteer the crap job in the factory? Are you going to use force and state violence to force people to the factory?
Or you accept that no one will have cars since no one wants to work in the factory.

You wouldn’t need to force them, back when I was in school some mates would pull cars apart for fun. They lived and dreamed the job. Why would everyone become an artist? They’d need to sell their art and if there’s no buyers then they won’t be contributing and have to find something new if they want to keep getting paid.

 

[Punchpudding]

They’d probably want one for themselves which would drive incentive to make it.

And they'd do it for other people too?

 

[Cato]

A. You would lose your job if you slacked off.

B. I’ve known plenty of mechanics who love the job. They’d also likely get paid more and could afford better housing.

Mechanics are no factory workers. Factory workers need virtually no skills other than being able to repeat the same assembly steps over and over and over at their conveyor belt.
Factory jobs are really crap and only people that have no other choice works there.


Again, I present Slab City to you.
Everyone there are paid the same, they are all on the same unemployment whatever they have in southern california.
All of them are "artists" or similar nonsense.
Why did not a single one of them decide "I will be the guy cleaning the streets from garbage and broken glass." ?

Watch the youtube video I linked. That is what a society will look like when you remove all motivation to better yourself.
Your thought experiment has already been tried.

 

[bitbydeath]

And they'd do it for other people too?

Yes. Equality for all. They either make it for everyone or no one.

 

[bitbydeath]

Mechanics are no factory workers. Factory workers need virtually no skills other than being able to repeat the same assembly steps over and over and over at their conveyor belt.
Factory jobs are really crap and only people that have no other choice works there.


Again, I present Slab City to you.
Everyone there are paid the same, they are all on the same unemployment whatever they have in southern california.
All of them are "artists" or similar nonsense.
Why did not a single one of them decide "I will be the guy cleaning the streets from garbage and broken glass." ?

Watch the youtube video I linked. That is what a society will look like when you remove all motivation to better yourself.
Your thought experiment has already been tried.

Factory working is great for people just getting out of school, it’s not something you’d want to do long term unless you were really passionate about it. The demand for the job would still exist.

As for slab city, they’re obviously using different rules than what I stated. You HAVE to contribute or you don’t get that level of pay. Everyone becoming artists and not selling their work on a frequent basis is not contributing, they would be out of the job.

 

[Punchpudding]

Yes. Equality for all. They either make it for everyone or no one.

Do you think humans naturally follow that rule or do you have a plan to enforce it?

You'll probably need to set up education camps and you'll need a special police force to keep things running smoothly.

 

[bitbydeath]

Do you think humans naturally follow that rule or do you have a plan to enforce it?

You'll probably need to set up education camps and you'll need a special police force to keep things running smoothly.

Just enforce it by taking it off them and crushing it into a cube.

 

[Gander]

It wouldn't work for several reasons:

1. People want to be rich and want the opportunity to be rich.
2. The people who benefit from the current eco system won't allow it to change.
3. Jealousy

 

[bitbydeath]

It wouldn't work for several reasons:

1. People want to be rich and want the opportunity to be rich.
2. The people who benefit from the current eco system won't allow it to change.
3. Jealousy

I’d rather secure the lives of future generations than be rich. It’s only going to keep getting worse for them.

 

[Punchpudding]

Just enforce it by taking it off them and crushing it into a cube.

Taking what off them? The hypothetical car that they have to put effort into building for everyone even though they could earn the same wage by putting groceries in a bag and calling it a day?

 

[bitbydeath]

Taking what off them? The hypothetical car that they have to put effort into building for everyone even though they could earn the same wage by putting groceries in a bag and calling it a day?

The car, it would not go unnoticed being the only one of its kind around.

If bagging groceries is your dream job then more power to you.

Many wouldn’t want to do that job forever.

 

[Lanrutcon]

Pay the brain surgeon and the paper boy the same salary.

Who'd want to be a brain surgeon then? a million times more stress, a million times harsher penalty for not giving 100%...same pay.

 

[Greedings]

Assumptions by OP:

1) People choose jobs because they enjoy them. No, they don't.
2) People wouldn't just leave the country. Yes, they would.
3) People would be able to afford things. No, international goods would not be cheaper.
4) Money =/= prestige.

Your system punishes those who have drive, OP. What's so great about our system, is that if you work harder, you get more money. There is an incentive to work hard, and a pay off. In your system, as with the communist times, you are only required to put in as much effort as meets the minimum demand for your job. There's a famous story as to how China dropped its serious communism and went relatively capitalistic, look up the small farming village of Xiaogang. It's a fascinating story.

 

[PuppetMaster]

Few will have incentive to actually work hard. And a large percentage would just become social parasites. This is one of the reasons the Soviet Union collapsed.

 

[Punchpudding]

The car, it would not go unnoticed being the only one of its kind around.
If bagging groceries is your dream job then more power to you.
Many wouldn’t want to do that job forever.

So assuming you find a bunch of people to build you a car out of the goodness of their hearts when they could be doing anything else. And then after owning said car, the government will have the power to confiscate and destroy any of your property if you don't fall in line (based on a vague idea of not trying hard enough)?

 

[bitbydeath]

Pay the brain surgeon and the paper boy the same salary.

Who'd want to be a brain surgeon then? a million times more stress, a million times harsher penalty for not giving 100%...same pay.

What about those in the army, do they just join for the pay?

Why is everyone not just a famous movie star if money was the only factor?

 

[PuppetMaster]

There are actually plenty of nerdy articles that try to explain the post scarcity economics in Star Trek.
https://medium.com/@RickWebb/the-economics-of-star-trek-29bab88d50

There is also a book called Trekonomics
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1941758754/?tag=neogaf0e-20

But the point is that even though in Star Trek they claim to have "no money" or salary based system in the Federation, it is very clearly a class based system. And all individuals are not "equal" by any metric.

Capitan Picard or Kirk definitely does not have the same social status as some janitor working on a starship. And its extremely clear officers in general have higher social status than regular red shirts. So there is some kind of accounting going on behind the scenes. And based on this background accounting that goes on, their rank or standing in society basically determines what credit and what kinds of luxury things they are entitled to and even what property they are entitled to.

 

[Lanrutcon]

What about those in the army, do they just join for the pay?

Why is everyone not just a famous movie star if money was the only factor?

I'm getting the feeling you're very young. What are we talking...teens? just hit the 20? That second question is either intentionally obtuse or coming from someone who's had very limited experience when it comes to careers, no offense.

If given the option, everyone who's actually worked a 9 to 5 for extended periods of time would choose a job with a ton of free time, high pay and no stress. This becomes especially true once you start a family. You can follow your dreams all you like, but without money, time and your health it's a dice roll with terrible odds.

 

[octiny]

What about those in the army, do they just join for the pay?

Why is everyone not just a famous movie star if money was the only factor?

Regarding the military. A shit ton enlist for the money & free education, including 98% of the people I know who joined. Let alone get married, just so they can extract housing & more money from the military (sshhhh).

Regarding acting, because it takes major skill, effort & lots of failed jobs to get there. It takes years to get noticed unless you have the right connections.

I'm getting the feeling you're very young. What are we talking...teens? just hit the 20?

I was thinking the same exact thing about him lol.


Edit: And on a personal note, I run a couple businesses myself. But if there was only 1 wage and I had a choice, hell to the no....I wouldn't be running them. Give me a list of the top 5 easiest/low-skilled required jobs in the world & sign me up!

 

[PuppetMaster]

What about those in the army, do they just join for the pay?

Why is everyone not just a famous movie star if money was the only factor?

The army is an extremely class based and tiered. Rank is performance based. And there are clear differences in officer pay vs enlisted pay.
https://www.federalpay.org/military/army/ranks

Becoming a Movie Star is more like being a lottery winner. They won a genetic lottery. You can't become a movie star just by "trying hard" or working hard. Hollywood is full of people who try damn hard and fail. The ones who succeed, for example lets say Shia LaBeouf, became a star much in the same way a lottery winner becomes a millionaire. They participated and got lucky.

 

[Sienna Fuegonasus]

I don't think this is a good idea. I can't imagine that python programmer and seller can have the same salary.

 

[Greedings]

What about those in the army, do they just join for the pay?

Why is everyone not just a famous movie star if money was the only factor?

Have you ever come across the economics concept of supply and demand?