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[HoodWinked]

people would probably just come in to work drunk or high as quality of the work no longer would matter in this society.

 

[Durask]

Edit: And on a personal note, I run a couple businesses myself. But if there was only 1 wage and I had a choice, hell to the no....I wouldn't be running them. Give me a list of the top 5 easiest/low-skilled required jobs in the world & sign me up!

Same here - I get paid pretty good money right now - no way in hell I would work even 1/10th of how I work now. Sign me up for some job where I can sit at my desk and watch cat videos on Youtube all day.

Also, even in communist countries they did not pay everyone the same, not even close. Of course the difference was not as big as what you have now between a Starbucks barista and Warren Buffett but it was still a pretty big difference.
In the Soviet Union one person would get a free apartment and a free car and servants to help around the house, while others would live in communal apartments with one family per bedroom in a 3 bedroom apartment.

 

[Gander]

It's just impossible, you can't pay an Ad Executive the same money as some college dude working at Jimmy John's

 

[WhiskeyDiver]

I would LOVE to get paid a decently comfortable living wage to do nothing...but holy shit I doubt I would last more than a month. While it is something I would love, I also feel the need and desire to work. I like being active, and walking at least 8-10 miles a day at my job saves me a lot of time at the gym just to bring my weight down. Also with all the physical activity I perform at my job, I don't have to be nearly as conscious about my calorie count, since a significant chunk is being burned away just by moving around doing what I do.

I mean I make a decent wage, a good deal above minimum wage, so living decently comfortably is something I already do money wise. However, if there was a "Hey! Here's free money on top of the money you already make from work!" setup offered to me, then FUCK YEAH I WOULD TAKE IT! Early retirement and being debt free here I come!

 

[KevinKeene]

What motivation would there be to get an education and become something like a surgeon if you could just bag groceries instead for the same pay? This kind of model just doesn't work.

That people think like that is the problem.

Becoming a surgeon for the money ... sigh

 

[KevinKeene]

While it is something I would love, I also feel the need and desire to work.

That'd be ok, if only people like didn't force people who don't desire to work to do so.

 

[Gander]

Your environment matters to. In my state if you make less than 30k a year you might as well be in poverty.

 

[bitbydeath]

people would probably just come in to work drunk or high as quality of the work no longer would matter in this society.

It’s difficult to keep up, but went over this one before.

You can’t go into work drunk, there is no free passes. Everything will operate exactly the same but the pay scales will be balanced.

The reason I wrote about it was due to it coming up in TWD with Rick fighting for everyone to remain as equals.

You can’t slack off, there will still be demand in certain job types as there are today and people can’t make up their own jobs and get paid. Just as it is today. Again only pay differences everything else remains the same. History has not done that route so it’s not worth bringing up.

 

[Sàmban]

Your basics covered by your owner (the government) and no time to gain the necessary skills to move up the hierarchy? Nah that sounds nothing like slavery and I’m just an edgelord.

You have the freedom not to partake in it and to go get a regular job like anyone else. This is categorically not slavery. Slaves got hunted down and punished for running away from their masters. Stop making stupid arguments.

 

[Cato]

It’s difficult to keep up, but went over this one before.

You can’t go into work drunk, there is no free passes. Everything will operate exactly the same but the pay scales will be balanced.

The reason I wrote about it was due to it coming up in TWD with Rick fighting for everyone to remain as equals.

You can’t slack off, there will still be demand in certain job types as there are today and people can’t make up their own jobs and get paid. Just as it is today. Again only pay differences everything else remains the same. History has not done that route so it’s not worth bringing up.

Of course you can go to work drunk or play cards all day.
Who is going to check and enforce work morale? Your foreman or manager? Remember he/she is also on the same salary and will never get any benefit from working extra hard.
He/she could tell on you, and make himself the enemy for all the other workers, but why?

In reality, your foreman and manager will also come in drunk. As will their managers. They will all sit at your table and play card with you. All day.

This played out day after day for many decades in the eastern block. In every single country.
There is enormous amount of evidence of what happens to society when you remove any incentive or benefit from making an effort or working hard.

 

[bitbydeath]

Of course you can go to work drunk or play cards all day.
Who is going to check and enforce work morale? Your foreman or manager? Remember he/she is also on the same salary and will never get any benefit from working extra hard.
He/she could tell on you, and make himself the enemy for all the other workers, but why?

In reality, your foreman and manager will also come in drunk. As will their managers. They will all sit at your table and play card with you. All day.

This played out day after day for many decades in the eastern block. In every single country.
There is enormous amount of evidence of what happens to society when you remove any incentive or benefit from making an effort or working hard.

If the company falls then everyone would be out of the job. It would be in everybody’s best interest to keep it running. They can’t go to work drunk or they would be fired.

 

[Papa]

You have the freedom not to partake in it and to go get a regular job like anyone else. This is categorically not slavery. Slaves got hunted down and punished for running away from their masters. Stop making stupid arguments.

Hmm yes, there is definitely no one enslaved to the current welfare system. You are thinking about it too literally.

 

[Punchpudding]

Edit: And on a personal note, I run a couple businesses myself. But if there was only 1 wage and I had a choice, hell to the no....I wouldn't be running them. Give me a list of the top 5 easiest/low-skilled required jobs in the world & sign me up!

Yep, I'm getting older and find myself hiring/managing younger workers. The idea that you'll be able to find a team with the skills needed, who love their jobs, and don't care about pay is hilarious. But it's nice to imagine.

 

[bitbydeath]

Yep, I'm getting older and find myself hiring/managing younger workers. The idea that you'll be able to find a team with the skills needed, who love their jobs, and don't care about pay is hilarious. But it's nice to imagine.

The idea is that they would be payed well no matter the job. Sure you won't have sport stars or actors bringing in millions for example because they would be brought down to everyone else's tier.

I'm surprised a lot of people hate working in general on here. Very eye opening.
I could be a multi-billionaire and I would still work.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Communism doesn't work comrade

 

[Sàmban]

Hmm yes, there is definitely no one enslaved to the current welfare system. You are thinking about it too literally.

We were not actually talking about welfare, though there is some overlap. We were talking about a UBI system were we keep the current system (I.e. people striving for certain jobs and getting paid accordingly) and supplement it with UBI for those below a certain income with the stipulation that they be engaged in some form of public good to receive income (e.g. community service, rebuilding infrastructure, etc).

You somehow said this is slavery. Whether this would work is debatable, but to say that it is slavery is fucking stupid. Make better arguments.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Doesn’t matter if you were a McDonalds employee, bank manager, rock star, president etc

What if everyone took home the exact same salary as long as they contributed to 7 hours a day in society. People aren’t seeking to be cleaners because of how lucrative it is. People actually enjoy it. Same for other tough jobs such as painting, scientist or teaching.

I could see housing becoming affordable, people will be seeking jobs for passion and not money. We may even have more money leftover for funding projects that help everyone.

What’s everyone else think?

As a Scientist who has put in (so far) a number of years of 70+ hour work weeks - fuck no. I still have another 4-5 years before I earn my PhD. As much as I love my job and actually contributing to further humanity's accomplishments, I still want to get paid and pay off the absurd amount of debt that college has wracked up.

 

[Punchpudding]

The idea is that they would be payed well no matter the job. Sure you won't have sport stars or actors bringing in millions for example because they would be brought down to everyone else's tier.

I'm surprised a lot of people hate working in general on here. Very eye opening.
I could be a multi-billionaire and I would still work.

I feel like there are a bunch of business owners and managers or just people with a lot of experience in the workplace in this thread--we all had that eye opening experience at some point! A lot of people don't love their jobs, are in it out of self-interest, and will take a better deal given the chance. The system somehow works despite this.

BUT I appreciate optimism and, if you live in a capitalist society with reasonable economic freedom, you can try anything you like. Go create a company that pays everyone the same and see how it works, you never know what you'll find.

 

[bitbydeath]

As a Scientist who has put in (so far) a number of years of 70+ hour work weeks - fuck no. I still have another 4-5 years before I earn my PhD. As much as I love my job and actually contributing to further humanity's accomplishments, I still want to get paid and pay off the absurd amount of debt that college has wracked up.

What if this method had it paid off sooner though? I'm not saying everyone would be below the poverty line, quite the opposite. Everyone would be living extremely well.

I feel like there are a bunch of business owners and managers or just people with a lot of experience in the workplace in this thread--we all had that eye opening experience at some point! A lot of people don't love their jobs, are in it out of self-interest, and will take a better deal given the chance. The system somehow works despite this.

BUT I appreciate optimism and, if you live in a capitalist society with reasonable economic freedom, you can try anything you like. Go create a company that pays everyone the same and see how it works, you never know what you'll find.

Wouldn't work as nothing would change outside of the business which is the main driver for it.
All or nothing.

 

[Dr. Claus]

What if this method had it paid off sooner though? I'm not saying everyone would be below the poverty line, quite the opposite. Everyone would be living extremely well.

Then it would be more of an issue of the effort that the job entails. I do very difficult work that requires hundreds of hours of research, planning, testing, and writing. If I was paid the same as some dumbarse stoner kid at Mcdonalds or the local Vape shop, that would be incredibly disheartening and would ultimately pull people away from doing the difficult work when they could just as easily get an easy job and not put forth the effort.

Hell, I already feel this way a bit with the complete idiotic pay that celebrities earn for standing in front of a camera and saying a few lines while making some stupid poses. No way in hell is that worth millions of dollars. But that is a rant for another day.

 

[Papa]

We were not actually talking about welfare, though there is some overlap. We were talking about a UBI system were we keep the current system (I.e. people striving for certain jobs and getting paid accordingly) and supplement it with UBI for those below a certain income with the stipulation that they be engaged in some form of public good to receive income (e.g. community service, rebuilding infrastructure, etc).

You somehow said this is slavery. Whether this would work is debatable, but to say that it is slavery is fucking stupid. Make better arguments.

Universal basic income is welfare. The only difference is that you are suggesting that people be forced to work government-provided jobs in order to receive said welfare. That requires them to give up their time (aka freedom) that could otherwise be spent acquiring skills that would allow them to climb the hierarchy. That is slavery to the system.

I understand the argument for universal basic income but am against it for the simple fact that the market would quickly adjust to account for the greater spending power of the people (UBI/welfare recipients) at the bottom of the hierarchy. They would again be priced out of the market, fall below the poverty line, and left-wing politicans would argue for increasing the UBI rate to eliminate poverty. Also factor in that many of those people would not have the necessary education to make good decisions with the "free" money, and they would quite possibly end up worse off after tying themselves into loans for various luxury goods. In the mining industry, we call it the golden handcuffs. Uneducated people who would otherwise be at the bottom of the social hierarchy can very easily get a low-skill job on a mine site paying in excess of 120k AUD. The first thing they do is go and splash that cash on a fancy car, a fancy house, and a fancy wife who takes it all in the inevitable divorce. They buy their own chains and it's a vicious cycle for which the only solution is education, assuming you agree that top-down government redistribution of wealth is not a sustainable solution. However, that requires internal motivation which comes primarily from a culture that celebrates educational success and doesn't denigrate it for straying from the group (this is why Chinese immigrants are the most successful demographic). Crabs-in-a-bucket cultural malaise is one of the biggest factors driving poverty in America.

I think your heart is in the right place but you don't have a good enough grasp of economics or history to come up with a practicable solution.

 

[Punchpudding]

All or nothing.

Haha so it's violent top down revolution needed to implement this system.

Maybe do a Neogaf poll to see who would join your campaign before you get started.

 

[TheShadowLord]

Haha so it's violent top down revolution needed to implement this system.

Maybe do a Neogaf poll to see who would join your campaign before you get started.

Kane agrees

 

[-Minsc-]

The reality I see is not all that much would change, though the gap between the rich and poor would likely be a little less.
- those who worked at a job solely for the money would become the bums of society since they lost their motivation.
- those who became bums due to not getting ahead, no matter how hard they tried, would fare off better due to not feeling so far behind. (a point naysayers to an equal hourly wage seem to ignore)
- then there are the ones who will do nothing, regardless of the system in place.
- there will still be rich and poor.
- the game of getting ahead can still be played.
- people will still save, invest and spend their money in different ways. we are all responsible to manage our money.

edit:

Universal basic income is welfare. The only difference is that you are suggesting that people be forced to work government-provided jobs in order to receive said welfare. That requires them to give up their time (aka freedom) that could otherwise be spent acquiring skills that would allow them to climb the hierarchy. That is slavery to the system.

I always found it odd when people champion introducing UBI when it sounds like something we already have.

 

[Sàmban]

Universal basic income is welfare. The only difference is that you are suggesting that people be forced to work government-provided jobs in order to receive said welfare. That requires them to give up their time (aka freedom) that could otherwise be spent acquiring skills that would allow them to climb the hierarchy. That is slavery to the system.

I understand the argument for universal basic income but am against it for the simple fact that the market would quickly adjust to account for the greater spending power of the people (UBI/welfare recipients) at the bottom of the hierarchy. They would again be priced out of the market, fall below the poverty line, and left-wing politicans would argue for increasing the UBI rate to eliminate poverty. Also factor in that many of those people would not have the necessary education to make good decisions with the "free" money, and they would quite possibly end up worse off after tying themselves into loans for various luxury goods. In the mining industry, we call it the golden handcuffs. Uneducated people who would otherwise be at the bottom of the social hierarchy can very easily get a low-skill job on a mine site paying in excess of 120k AUD. The first thing they do is go and splash that cash on a fancy car, a fancy house, and a fancy wife who takes it all in the inevitable divorce. They buy their own chains and it's a vicious cycle for which the only solution is education, assuming you agree that top-down government redistribution of wealth is not a sustainable solution. However, that requires internal motivation which comes primarily from a culture that celebrates educational success and doesn't denigrate it for straying from the group (this is why Chinese immigrants are the most successful demographic). Crabs-in-a-bucket cultural malaise is one of the biggest factors driving poverty in America.

I think your heart is in the right place but you don't have a good enough grasp of economics or history to come up with a practicable solution.

UBI is optional, just like welfare is optional. You do not get beaten, thrown in prison, hung, or punished in any way for denying either. The comparison to slavery is absurd.

As for the rest, I think you are being overly pessimistic about what poor people would do with extra money. I’m sure some will spend it on stupid things, but most would strive for more as humans often do -perhaps investing in their education which would hopefully increase social mobility and allow them to get off UBI. And for those spending it on dumb things, this would theoretically not be as big a problem because they’d at least need to contribute to a public good to keep getting UBI, instead of getting free money or just being lazy bums or wasted potential because they are dirt poor.

 

[KevinKeene]

Hell, I already feel this way a bit with the complete idiotic pay that celebrities earn for standing in front of a camera and saying a few lines while making some stupid poses. No way in hell is that worth millions of dollars. But that is a rant for another day.

Actors at least put some effort into it. Now when you think about 20yo youtubers who make thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) per month off doing shitty videos, that's when depression sets in (at least for me, not joking).

Seeing how there's no just, no fair balance where hard jobs would earn the most money, made me give up on participating in this 'game'. People with the hardest jobs, like cleaning ladies, mechanics, bakers, etc. are paid the lowest, while people with fancy jobs (like actors, graphic designers, writers, etc) earn top bucks while also enjoying respect from other people.

Society/capitalism is fundamentally unfair.

 

[Moneal]

Actors at least put some effort into it. Now when you think about 20yo youtubers who make thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) per month off doing shitty videos, that's when depression sets in (at least for me, not joking).

Seeing how there's no just, no fair balance where hard jobs would earn the most money, made me give up on participating in this 'game'. People with the hardest jobs, like cleaning ladies, mechanics, bakers, etc. are paid the lowest, while people with fancy jobs (like actors, graphic designers, writers, etc) earn top bucks while also enjoying respect from other people.

Society/capitalism is fundamentally unfair.

You make money based on the value the paying audience perceives you bring. the cleaning lady( I was a janitor at multiple places yep it sucks) has very little perceived value, if any really. same for most jobs. an actor, and streamers/youtubers to a lesser degree, especially the big ones have a large perceived value by the audience. Tons of people will pay to watch Tom Cruise. How many will pay that much for a cleaner store? Most people don't even notice the stores that have good cleaning and the ones that don't.

People pay for what they want, that is essentially capitalism. you, me, and everyone else decides who make the most money and who makes the least. If we valued those jobs more and paid more for the best work from those jobs they would be higher paying, but we don't.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Everything would collapse... That's what would happen

 

[bitbydeath]

You make money based on the value the paying audience perceives you bring. the cleaning lady( I was a janitor at multiple places yep it sucks) has very little perceived value, if any really. same for most jobs. an actor, and streamers/youtubers to a lesser degree, especially the big ones have a large perceived value by the audience. Tons of people will pay to watch Tom Cruise. How many will pay that much for a cleaner store? Most people don't even notice the stores that have good cleaning and the ones that don't.

People pay for what they want, that is essentially capitalism. you, me, and everyone else decides who make the most money and who makes the least. If we valued those jobs more and paid more for the best work from those jobs they would be higher paying, but we don't.

What about farmers?
They pretty much keep everyone alive yet earn next to nothing.

 

[Moneal]

What about farmers?
They pretty much keep everyone alive yet earn next to nothing.

again its not about actual value, its perceived value. people don't think about the farmer or how much work they do when they eat, they just go to the store and see an abundance of food. Due to that, food has a low perceived value.

 

[Rest]

Short term nothing would happen, but long term, as rich people lost their fortunes money would start to distort and it would eventually become valueless. For money to be worth anything you need people with lots of it, people with some of it, people with a little of it, and people with none of it.

 

[gunslikewhoa]

It’s difficult to keep up, but went over this one before.

You can’t go into work drunk, there is no free passes. Everything will operate exactly the same but the pay scales will be balanced.

The reason I wrote about it was due to it coming up in TWD with Rick fighting for everyone to remain as equals.

You can’t slack off, there will still be demand in certain job types as there are today and people can’t make up their own jobs and get paid. Just as it is today. Again only pay differences everything else remains the same. History has not done that route so it’s not worth bringing up.

Jesus.

 

[Azurro]

Doesn’t matter if you were a McDonalds employee, bank manager, rock star, president etc

What if everyone took home the exact same salary as long as they contributed to 7 hours a day in society. People aren’t seeking to be cleaners because of how lucrative it is. People actually enjoy it. Same for other tough jobs such as painting, scientist or teaching.

I could see housing becoming affordable, people will be seeking jobs for passion and not money. We may even have more money leftover for funding projects that help everyone.

What’s everyone else think?

This is a terrible idea, it removes the incentive to learn the difficult topics, so you'd have a shortage of doctors, developers, engineers and so on. There would be economical stagnation since no one has an incentive to start a business as that business would only give him the same revenue as he's currently earning. Actually businesses would break down, as a lot of jobs that are necessary to do would not be anyone's passion. Morally, I just don't think it's fair or just to pay the same to a doctor than to a cleaner, the difference in skill is enormous for them to be paid the same.

To be honest it sounds like a very naive way of thinking: "Everyone just should do their "PASSION, MAN!", I would like to know the person who's passion is to clean toilets and poop from the walls. Unfortunately, real life is not ideal, some stuff still needs to be done. And also, yeah, reward some very lazy people for not doing anything.

 

[FStubbs]

This is a terrible idea, it removes the incentive to learn the difficult topics, so you'd have a shortage of doctors, developers, engineers and so on. There would be economical stagnation since no one has an incentive to start a business as that business would only give him the same revenue as he's currently earning. Actually businesses would break down, as a lot of jobs that are necessary to do would not be anyone's passion. Morally, I just don't think it's fair or just to pay the same to a doctor than to a cleaner, the difference in skill is enormous for them to be paid the same.

To be honest it sounds like a very naive way of thinking: "Everyone just should do their "PASSION, MAN!", I would like to know the person who's passion is to clean toilets and poop from the walls. Unfortunately, real life is not ideal, some stuff still needs to be done. And also, yeah, reward some very lazy people for not doing anything.

I think this system would only have a chance of working once technology got a LOT more advanced and a lot of these jobs that no one wants to do were automated.

 

[Cato]

I think this system would only have a chance of working once technology got a LOT more advanced and a lot of these jobs that no one wants to do were automated.

Why should the person owning the machines and resources run them to produce charity items for the people that don't contribute?
Or are we back at marxist utopia again where the state owns all the means of production and resources?

Edit: we know how that ends. One model of shoes to choose from in the shop. 12 year waiting period to buy a new car. 4 Hours a day in line to buy bread.
And brutal tyranny to keep people from revolting.

 

[Drake]

I work a tech job that pays VERY well, but can be stressful at times and the hours aren't the best. If I'm going to be paid the same as a guy who stocks shelves at a grocery store, then I'm going to do that job. At the end of the day I only care about one thing when it comes to my job. Money. If I can remove the stress, have better hours and do an easier job while getting paid the same then I'm gonna do that. There has to be an incentive to do that higher stress job with the bad hours. Sorry dude, no one wants to work the overnight shift doing a stressful/shitty job without proper compensation. You need incentives to do that stuff, or people will stop doing it.

You think my father liked working in a hot factory for 30 years? He fucking hated it (and so did all of his co-workers), but the pay was good and now he's retired living the sweet life. I'm sure if he had the option to work at an air conditioned Walmart and be a cashier while getting paid the same he would've done that.

 

[Azurro]

I work a tech job that pays VERY well, but can be stressful at times and the hours aren't the best. If I'm going to be paid the same as a guy who stocks shelves at a grocery store, then I'm going to do that job. At the end of the day I only care about one thing when it comes to my job. Money. If I can remove the stress, have better hours and do an easier job while getting paid the same then I'm gonna do that. There has to be an incentive to do that higher stress job with the bad hours. Sorry dude, no one wants to work the overnight shift doing a stressful/shitty job without proper compensation. You need incentives to do that stuff, or people will stop doing it.

You think my father liked working in a hot factory for 30 years? He fucking hated it (and so did all of his co-workers), but the pay was good and now he's retired living the sweet life. I'm sure if he had the option to work at an air conditioned Walmart and be a cashier while getting paid the same he would've done that.

Pretty much this. I enjoy what I do, programming is one of the few things I could see myself doing when choosing a career. However, if I could be paid the same by sitting down at a Walmart ringing up items and stocking up once in a while, and rotating doing simple jobs like that, I'd switch in a heartbeat. If you do jobs that are higher in demand and lower in supply due to scarcity (the jobs are either harder to do or they are hard to produce like athletes, well liked comedians and actors), then the rewards should definitely be higher.

I mean, when I was younger I would turn up my nose at youtube celebrities and so on, but to manage to be consistently entertaining to millions of people more than once a week is bloody difficult.

 

[WinterIsComing]

I'd work at a supermarket, if they paid me the same. No need to kill brain cells if there's no motivation.
Or i'd just leave the country. So for this to have the possibility of working, it'd have to be a global thing and not only in one country, and the global government would have to take control of every private property at the time of it's implementation.

 

[KevinKeene]

I work a tech job that pays VERY well, but can be stressful at times and the hours aren't the best. If I'm going to be paid the same as a guy who stocks shelves at a grocery store, then I'm going to do that job. At the end of the day I only care about one thing when it comes to my job. Money. If I can remove the stress, have better hours and do an easier job while getting paid the same then I'm gonna do that. There has to be an incentive to do that higher stress job with the bad hours. Sorry dude, no one wants to work the overnight shift doing a stressful/shitty job without proper compensation. You need incentives to do that stuff, or people will stop doing it.

You think my father liked working in a hot factory for 30 years? He fucking hated it (and so did all of his co-workers), but the pay was good and now he's retired living the sweet life. I'm sure if he had the option to work at an air conditioned Walmart and be a cashier while getting paid the same he would've done that.

Pretty much this. I enjoy what I do, programming is one of the few things I could see myself doing when choosing a career. However, if I could be paid the same by sitting down at a Walmart ringing up items and stocking up once in a while, and rotating doing simple jobs like that, I'd switch in a heartbeat. If you do jobs that are higher in demand and lower in supply due to scarcity (the jobs are either harder to do or they are hard to produce like athletes, well liked comedians and actors), then the rewards should definitely be higher.

I mean, when I was younger I would turn up my nose at youtube celebrities and so on, but to manage to be consistently entertaining to millions of people more than once a week is bloody difficult.

Those are extremely ignorant, arrogant postings. No, you would NOT give up your fancy tech job where you're challenged to solve different problems every day, where sit in front of a pc most day, and where people depend on you - you like that job. Meanwhile you're completely understating the job at a supermarket. Restocking shelf all day every day, dealing with customers, and no variety in what you do - I feel like dying just typing that and you want to that until you're 60? Ugh ...

And the whole retirement lie :/ Some people do that, yes. Work to 60, retire, live a nice life until 90. Here's the thing: Many people die soon after retiring. Many people die well before. And then there's the whole physical fitness that won't allow you to do many things you might have wanted to do 30 years ago.
Spending your young life for retirement plans is one of the biggest lies nobody talks about. Because if they did, a lot would change.

In general, people should care less about money. I don't care one bit about it. I demand from the world that I'm not left starving, that is all and it is fair. IfI want an extra, I'll work towards that extra. But I won't allow money to become the driving force in my life. That way could only lead to disappointment in a time where 20 yo Youtubers make 500k a month with shitty videos. The only way to win is not to play ...

 

[Azurro]

Those are extremely ignorant, arrogant postings. No, you would NOT give up your fancy tech job where you're challenged to solve different problems every day, where sit in front of a pc most day, and where people depend on you - you like that job. Meanwhile you're completely understating the job at a supermarket. Restocking shelf all day every day, dealing with customers, and no variety in what you do - I feel like dying just typing that and you want to that until you're 60? Ugh ...

And the whole retirement lie :/ Some people do that, yes. Work to 60, retire, live a nice life until 90. Here's the thing: Many people die soon after retiring. Many people die well before. And then there's the whole physical fitness that won't allow you to do many things you might have wanted to do 30 years ago.
Spending your young life for retirement plans is one of the biggest lies nobody talks about. Because if they did, a lot would change.

I would like more detail on why you are calling my post arrogant and ignorant. I am quite serious, if I could switch to less demanding work and switch it up every once in a while (ringing people up at a store, maybe a bit of stocking, teaching English and travel) and get paid a programmer's wage, I'd honestly switch. I'm not saying I'd be tied to a single job all my life. I mean, why not? All jobs would pay the same, a couple of months you are sorting stuff at the post office, some other months I'm stocking at WalMart, then go abroad and teach English, or work at a hostel doing the beds. I'd love to do that.

Of course, the problem is everyone would want to do the same and there would be very few people who'd go through all the stress and responsibility of being a doctor or a lawyer. Getting these jobs is related to scarcity, social standing and financial rewards. Remove all those, and the only people doing more than the bare minimum would be the truly passionate and good luck seeing a doctor before you die.

About living for retirement, you don't have to do that if you don't want to. I've moved, travelled and experienced many things, places and countries due to my work. I didn't wait until I was 30 to do a quick trip to North America, I moved to Canada and spent a long time there. I didn't wait until I was 60 to do a trip to Europe, I moved here now thanks to my job because I wanted to.

{QUOTE]In general, people should care less about money. I don't care one bit about it. I demand from the world that I'm not left starving, that is all and it is fair. IfI want an extra, I'll work towards that extra. But I won't allow money to become the driving force in my life. That way could only lead to disappointment in a time where 20 yo Youtubers make 500k a month with shitty videos. The only way to win is not to play ...[/QUOTE]

You are being a little dramatic here. Money is very important, but it should be given its proper dimension. Being rich doesn't automatically make you happy, but without money you can't pay for food. Just try to strike a balance and that's that, no one says you need to live your life just to make money.

It's just that the OP rubbed me off the wrong way a bit because it came across, and maybe I'm wrong, as a bit of a disguised whine: "oh maaaaan! The stuff that pays well is haaaaaard, why can't I get paid as much as a doctor stocking stuff for amazon?! This sucks.".

 

[bitbydeath]

Those are extremely ignorant, arrogant postings. No, you would NOT give up your fancy tech job where you're challenged to solve different problems every day, where sit in front of a pc most day, and where people depend on you - you like that job. Meanwhile you're completely understating the job at a supermarket. Restocking shelf all day every day, dealing with customers, and no variety in what you do - I feel like dying just typing that and you want to that until you're 60? Ugh ...

And the whole retirement lie :/ Some people do that, yes. Work to 60, retire, live a nice life until 90. Here's the thing: Many people die soon after retiring. Many people die well before. And then there's the whole physical fitness that won't allow you to do many things you might have wanted to do 30 years ago.
Spending your young life for retirement plans is one of the biggest lies nobody talks about. Because if they did, a lot would change.

In general, people should care less about money. I don't care one bit about it. I demand from the world that I'm not left starving, that is all and it is fair. IfI want an extra, I'll work towards that extra. But I won't allow money to become the driving force in my life. That way could only lead to disappointment in a time where 20 yo Youtubers make 500k a month with shitty videos. The only way to win is not to play ...

Thank you, finally someone else understands. Easy jobs are mundane because they are too easy. I’m sure some might be able to adjust to the mind numbingness of it all and dumbing down of their life but I doubt that is a large majority.

Many legitimately want to learn new things every day, yes it can be stressful but that is what makes you feel alive and important.

 

[Ray Wonder]

CEO of Amazon = Kid who puts away books at a library

 

[Moneal]

Those are extremely ignorant, arrogant postings. No, you would NOT give up your fancy tech job where you're challenged to solve different problems every day, where sit in front of a pc most day, and where people depend on you - you like that job. Meanwhile you're completely understating the job at a supermarket. Restocking shelf all day every day, dealing with customers, and no variety in what you do - I feel like dying just typing that and you want to that until you're 60? Ugh ...

And the whole retirement lie :/ Some people do that, yes. Work to 60, retire, live a nice life until 90. Here's the thing: Many people die soon after retiring. Many people die well before. And then there's the whole physical fitness that won't allow you to do many things you might have wanted to do 30 years ago.
Spending your young life for retirement plans is one of the biggest lies nobody talks about. Because if they did, a lot would change.

In general, people should care less about money. I don't care one bit about it. I demand from the world that I'm not left starving, that is all and it is fair. IfI want an extra, I'll work towards that extra. But I won't allow money to become the driving force in my life. That way could only lead to disappointment in a time where 20 yo Youtubers make 500k a month with shitty videos. The only way to win is not to play ...

I would say its pretty arrogant to tell someone else how they feel about their own life.

As for people caring about money less I agree, but that just ain't happening. Being rewarded for work is the reason people work. in our society money is that reward. in the past the reward for hard work was survival or social status. removing the reward without replacing it with something else doesn't work.

 

[bitbydeath]

I would say its pretty arrogant to tell someone else how they feel about their own life.

As for people caring about money less I agree, but that just ain't happening. Being rewarded for work is the reason people work. in our society money is that reward. in the past the reward for hard work was survival or social status. removing the reward without replacing it with something else doesn't work.

Doing something you enjoy is the reward.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Doing something you enjoy is the reward.

Say, now that everybody gets paid the same in this magical world wouldn't it be harder to get the job you want/enjoy?

 

[Azurro]

Doing something you enjoy is the reward.

Are there enough people in the world who are passionate about being janitors or whose passion is taking orders at McDonald's? This view is unrealistic.

 

[Moneal]

Doing something you enjoy is the reward.

I already posted that the vast majority of people, 85% world wide, don't enjoy their jobs. That isn't just menial jobs thats the overwhelming majority of jobs. Why would those people keep the jobs they have when they could be less stressed and get the same rewards.

 

[KevinKeene]

As for people caring about money less I agree, but that just ain't happening. Being rewarded for work is the reason people work. in our society money is that reward. in the past the reward for hard work was survival or social status. removing the reward without replacing it with something else doesn't work.

That's something I often think about. Modern society has turned the reward into an abstract (money) where what you do doesn't really matter anymore as long as the money is get. Compare this to the past where people worked on their own land, grew their own food, and they knew: 'This work I'm doing right now, right here, will bring my family the food in the future. And what's left over I can trade/sell for some special extra'. I can easily imagine how that work, albeit physically taxing, is much more fulfilling. Heck, I notice that when I'm watering the plants around my house. It's tedious to water 100 plants, but I know I'll be rewarded with their continued beautifully green appearance. If I was watering those plants for money ... ugh

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

You can do that right now friend. Not sure you'll get paid jack though.

 

[TTOOLL]

That would be the end, that's it.