Support NeoGAF

[Bragr]

I swear the only progression racing games have made in the last 15 years is better visuals, feeling of traction, and car sounds. Everything else has regressed.

Gran Turismo, especially 3, set the standard for how to achieve an addictive progression through a campaign in a racing game. Make the player earn everything they get. Every car needs to be bought from hard-earned cash or winning a challenging tournament, make the player get licenses, slow progression through a set of events. Make the player feel like they build and earn their garage, make them care about what they get, and wrap it all into an economic system where you yearn for every buck you find.

Subsequently, after GT4, every car game under the sun ignored these developments and made cookie-cutter campaigns with no incentives to them that all feel the same. You unlock a new car after every race, no rewarding economic system, just race through a set of bland events on a menu screen until you get to the last one. The F1 one games are the only ones who even try to make a campaign worthwhile. I would guess it's because it might be too hardcore for casuals, or that they don't want to hide all the cars under a long campaign but let everyone use every car as easy and early as possible.

But Jesus Christ, I miss the days of struggling to get the best cars in the old GT games, feeling a sense of pride when I looked at my garage. What a hell happened here? how did car games completely stop progressing or trying to build meaningful modes?

 

[SliChillax]

I agree, it's why I can't stand the Forza games.

 

[Derktron]

Just say you a Sony fanboy and love their racing game. Damn people need to get straight to the point.

 

[Fart Knight]

Go play Ride 4.

 

[cireza]

I loved Marvel vs Capcom 2 because there was always something to unlock. Same with Capcom vs SNK (the first one).

Unlocking stuff is fun ! At least to me.

 

[godhandiscen]

I would say the Burnout Paradise/Forza Horizon open ended type of car racing game is a huge gameplay progression of the original formula. I am not a fan, but I wouldn’t call the genre stagnant.

 

[Derktron]

Also in reality why these games exist at least in my opinion is that companies like Sony or Microsoft like to showcase their graphical capability whenever they release their consoles, it's why you hardly see a yearly release of Forza or even GT games. I may be wrong but seems like OP knows more than I do and made this useless thread.

 

[Fredrik]

I love racing but I agree on the cars complaint, it’s too easy to get new cars.

And they’ve been trying to dumb down the tuning too for quite awhile now.

And where are the pitstops and why aren’t they made into gameplay?

I miss Pitstop 2 on the C64! Half the race happened in the pitstops and how you raced and wore out the tires and when deciding go in for a tire change.

 

[Rikkori]

They're not for you. And progression's not why people who play these games are so into them.

 

[MilkyJoe]

So you want more Sony racers?

 

[Miles708]

Realistic racers are not games, are just playable AutoCAD projects.

 

[Derktron]

They're not for you. And progression's not why people who play these games are so into them.

Yep, for most, it's just for the simulation of racing and the other is for graphical showcase in some of these games.

 

[Aion002]

What a hell happened here? how did car games completely stop progressing or trying to build meaningful modes?

They went after the casual public.

Forza Horizon is the epitome of that... I am not saying that is a bad thing, it's just different from what the more traditional racing gamers expect. For example, "rewinding" is a disgusting thing for most hardcore racing players, but for casuals? It's a must.

 

[AllyITA]

I swear the only progression racing games have made in the last 15 years is better visuals, feeling of traction, and car sounds.

Yes, thank you, more of that.

i'm not that hardcore of a sim racer, but the only thing i care about is driving a cool car on the nordschleife. i don't need progression or a story shoehorned into that.

 

[HE1NZ]

Because nobody cares about car characteristics. I love Forza Horizon because I love driving the world. I don't understand games like Grand Turismo and their weird ass "careers" where you drive a circle for eternity to open some car that looks the same to me.

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

I was playing Forza Horizon 4 and I leveled up and a wheel started spinning at the chance to get some free cars. I was like wtf is this shit...

 

[T8SC]

"All" of the Codemasters games?

 

[T4rz4]

I feel playing Dirt Rally that I earn each credit by surviving another day.

 

[chorizosausage#3774]

GT5's lounge music / Jazz user interface was the best.

Super cool voice overs suck. Bin that.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

I loved Marvel vs Capcom 2 because there was always something to unlock. Same with Capcom vs SNK (the first one).

Unlocking stuff is fun ! At least to me.

You can still unlock stuff in games now, if you are willing to pay for it.

 

[LokusAbriss]

Every time these studios tried some new formular and certain players couldnt get the best cars withing 20 min playing the game, a shitstorm of complaints were heading towards the developer.

Many of us would like to have more pride and feeling of ownership in the cars you get. But the people who want everything from the go, will make that impossible.

 

[Chukhopops]

I respect this point of view but remembering the original Gran Turismo the slow progression with licenses and starting from a shit Toyota to grind forever to buy cars wasn’t my favorite.

FH4 leans maybe too much towards instant gratification but I like it, makes it so there’s always a new objective to go for.

 

[nkarafo]

I mostly dislike the shitty menus that make no sense and takes ages to find what you want.

Also, the voice overs. Hate them. Especially when there is no way to skip them and you just have to wait until they decide to stop talking.

 

[Rayderism]

I've been saying for years that the reason I stopped liking sim racers is because they always seem like the same game, just with improved graphics. I switched to preferring arcade racers more than two decades ago, not only because they tend to be more fun, but also because they tend to switch up the gameplay that contribute to the fun, as opposed to {yawn} "just racing" all the time.

 

[Yoshi]

So you are actually demanding grinding instead of a "if you win everything once you get everything" economics?

 

[Romulus]

I agree but VR made me shut up about the incremental upgrades. Playing iracing or Dirt Rally in VR feels like going from SNES racing to PS2 comparing it to a monitor. Its revolutionary for racing in ways that cannot be communicated or shown without trying it on a decent PC or even PSVR to a lesser extent.

 

[Yoshi]

I would say the Burnout Paradise/Forza Horizon open ended type of car racing game is a huge gameplay progression of the original formula. I am not a fan, but I wouldn’t call the genre stagnant.

1. Burnout Paradise is an arcade game, far from a sim.
2. Open world is much worse for super fast arcade racing than tracks.

 

[Captain Toad]

Wishing every simulation racer was Gran Turismo quality, is like wishing every platformer was Mario quality. Some studios are just a cut above the competition.

 

[GrayFoxPL]

I loved Marvel vs Capcom 2 because there was always something to unlock. Same with Capcom vs SNK (the first one).

Unlocking stuff is fun ! At least to me.

Not for lazy bums games cater to nowadays.

 

[FritzJ92]

Forza is a car game to me. It’s for people who love cars. They don’t advertise as “the driving simulator,” and for the person missing pit stops, just turn damage to realistic and you’ll have to put stop to maintain peak performance

 

[Edgelord79]

 

[Jibran#one]

The problem is if a new forza comes and doesn't have more than 500 or 1000 cars like the previous one every reviewer would point out that the previous one had this many cars
I agree with ur point that racing games didn't evolved atall in the last decades or so

 

[Derktron]

Damn, we're almost to two pages of this thread. I'm impressed.

 

[Twinguistics]

Forza horizon 4 is a joke. It literally doesn't matter if you come last in every race.

 

[ArtemisClydeFrog]

Gran Turismo 7 is coming. Forza Horizon 4 isn't a "simulator" but it's fucking fun, massive, and has so much shit to do. Go drive your shitty Oldsmobile if you want to experience COMPLETE REALISM. Plus it's got Odesza in it, easily making it one of the best soundtracks in a racing game ever.

Why is this thread so damn stupid?

 

[Digity]

Gran Turismo 7 is coming. Forza Horizon 4 isn't a "simulator" but it's fucking fun, massive, and has so much shit to do. Go drive your shitty Oldsmobile if you want to experience COMPLETE REALISM. Plus it's got Odesza in it, easily making it one of the best soundtracks in a racing game ever.

Why is this thread so damn stupid?

 

[The_Mike]

Just say you a Sony fanboy and love their racing game. Damn people need to get straight to the point.

But then who's gonna read that wall of text that's basically saying your point?

 

[Chukhopops]

Gran Turismo 7 is coming. Forza Horizon 4 isn't a "simulator" but it's fucking fun, massive, and has so much shit to do. Go drive your shitty Oldsmobile if you want to experience COMPLETE REALISM. Plus it's got Odesza in it, easily making it one of the best soundtracks in a racing game ever.

Why is this thread so damn stupid?

The song is so-so but it’s worth it just for the ten seconds on the title screen, never get tired of it.


I still think FH2 had the best OST.

 

[karasu]

Remember a bunch of years ago people used to argue that unlockables were ridiculous in console games because they didn't have time to grind due to jobs, wives or whatever fucked up decisions they made in their personal lives? I think this is the result.

 

[protonion]

When I saw the map screen in GT7, I knew that the GT campaign of the ps2 era is back.

My favourite part of the past gt games,is the beginning of the campaign. When you can only buy a used crappy car and grind for a new engine. The feeling of mastering the track saving milliseconds at every turn and finally getting your first gold.

Gt sport made me depressed. The core gameplay is the best. But how you package and present the game is equally important.

They fucking did it!
For someone like me whose some of the fondest gaming memories is the old gt campaigns, this screen alone made me jump from joy.

 

[Derktron]

"All" of the Codemasters games?

Now part of EA.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

How many of the big name car games have build your own track? Any?

 

[Derktron]

But then who's gonna read that wall of text that's basically saying your point?

Because people on here need to get straight to the point, I hate ResetEra but one thing I liked about that pathetic community is that if they hated something they would get straight to the damn point.

 

[SirTerry-T]

I love racing but I agree on the cars complaint, it’s too easy to get new cars.

And they’ve been trying to dumb down the tuning too for quite awhile now.

And where are the pitstops and why aren’t they made into gameplay?

I miss Pitstop 2 on the C64! Half the race happened in the pitstops and how you raced and wore out the tires and when deciding go in for a tire change.

Well, if your playing the F1 games on anything other than the "casual" settings, you aren't going to be too successful unless you get used to your engine and tyre management.

 

[Derktron]

How many of the big name car games have build your own track? Any?

Forza Horizon or even Motorsport doesn't even have that feature.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

GT3 and GT4 were greats games, but considering that had no car damage and you could play bumper cars along tight turns by knifing your way from 4th place to 1st place, they should be the last games to be considered golden child.

If it weren't for other car franchises, we'd still be playing pinball car racing.

 

[GHG]

Reading through this thread after spending 45 minutes on an IMSA race on iracing is jarring.

Honestly it's getting to the point where it's better that racing games aren't discussed here, some people simply don't have a clue.

Forza is a car game to me. It’s for people who love cars. They don’t advertise as “the driving simulator,” and for the person missing pit stops, just turn damage to realistic and you’ll have to put stop to maintain peak performance

More like it's a crash simulator. What's the point in enabling pit stops in a game where the AI don't even have tire degradation and pit consistently as they should ? There's nothing motorsports about the motorsports series anymore.

There's a reason why much of the Forza Motorsport community migrated to the PC racing sims like iracing and Assetto Corsa or even GT Sport on console. Turn 10 need to get their act together for the next entry in the series if not it will be dead.

Also:

 

[Flutta]

Playing GTS atm, what a game love it. Cant wait for GT7 need that campaign back.

 

[Spokker]

Forza is for people who "mashthurbate" to cars as the developer of My Summer Car so eloquently puts it.

I'm a racing casual so that's why I play it, but I can see why former Forza fans migrated to other games.

 

[Ribi]

not a good campaign but wreckfest is the best racing game of the past 5 years