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[Imp the Dimp]

Scalpers are essentially making use of a market failure - namely Sony/Nvidia/AMD/etc. failing to increase the prices of their products even though the supply can't meet the demand (due to a chip shortage). The fact of the matter is that there isn't enough products at MSRP for everyone who'd like one, even if you eliminated all the scalpers who buy up the products at MSRP. So either you discriminate by price (which scalpers do) or by time/luck (hitting F5 at the right time on Amazon, checking Twitter bots all day). I don't understand why the latter is more virtuous than the former. Frankly, when it comes to luxury products I prefer an auction over a lottery. Scalpers buy products at MSRP, and redistribute it to those who are willing to pay more for them, thereby providing value as the recipient doesn't have to waste their time following Twitter bots day and night. They don't affect supply because they're obviously incentivized to resell. They do affect demand as the demand for a $1500 RTX 3080 is lower than for a $800 3080 but really, that's how price discovery works. If your price is such that the product is out of stock all the time, you've priced it too low.

If you hate scalpers, you should beg for the manufacturers to raise the console and GPU prices to their actual market value (they probably don't do it for brand perception reasons or otherwise). Currently, the products are simply priced too low.

edit: This is neither clickbait nor cringe lol. I've responded to literally everyone in good faith. I'm just correct and I'm sorry it hurt your feelings. By the end of this thread, 40-50% of you guys will be pro-scalping, so keep coping mods.

 

[Topher]

 

[Saiyan-Rox]

Nurse they're out of bed again

 

[Flutta]

 

[lh032]

 

[MilkLizard]

No. You’re also completely ignoring the chip shortage.

 

[WhamBamThankYouMaam]

So, yeah. No.

 

[arvfab]

 

[thesplitsubject]

No, just no /sigh

 

[Imp the Dimp]

So, yeah. No.

I'm just completely correct lol

No. You’re also completely ignoring the chip shortage.

I didn't.

 

[TintoConCasera]

I agree with OP and still say it's not the scalper's fault, but those who are willing to pay that price.

 

[Starfield]

Sir, please arrest yourself

 

[Imp the Dimp]

I agree with OP and still say it's not the scalper's fault, but those who are willing to pay that price.

It's not a "fault". You're free to value a product at whatever price you deem reasonable. If you value an RTX 3080 at $1500, who is to tell you you're "wrong"?

 

[kanjobazooie]

You forgot to plug your Ebay account.

 

[MrTentakel]

It's not a "fault". You're free to value a product at whatever price you deem reasonable. If you value an RTX 3080 at $1500, who is to tell you you're "wrong"?

People who don`t want a MRSP of 1200$ for the RTX4080.

 

[sircaw]

Scalpers are essentially making use of a market failure - namely Sony/Nvidia/AMD/etc. failing to increase the prices of their products even though the supply can't meet the demand (due to a chip shortage). The fact of the matter is that there isn't enough products at MSRP for everyone who'd like one, even if you eliminated all the scalpers who buy up the products at MSRP. So either you discriminate by price (which scalpers do) or by time/luck (hitting F5 at the right time on Amazon, checking Twitter bots all day). I don't understand why the latter is more virtuous than the former. Frankly, when it comes to luxury products I prefer an auction over a lottery. Scalpers buy products at MSRP, and redistribute it to those who are willing to pay more for them, thereby providing value as the recipient doesn't have to waste their time following Twitter bots day and night. They don't affect supply because they're obviously incentivized to resell. They do affect demand as the demand for a $1500 RTX 3080 is lower than for a $800 3080 but really, that's how price discovery works. If your price is such that the product is out of stock all the time, you've priced it too low.

If you hate scalpers, you should beg for the manufacturers to raise the console and GPU prices to their actual market value (they probably don't do it for brand perception reasons or otherwise). Currently, the products are simply priced too low.

Sounds like your trying to justify your guilt for ripping off people, you're not a dirty scalper are you?

 

[Imp the Dimp]

Sounds like your trying to justify your guilt for ripping off people, you're not a dirty scalper are you?

I wouldn't care if I was a scalper. I'd just tell you. I already said it's not unethical.

 

[Three]

Imp the scalper Simp

 

[DanEON]

Hi scalper

 

[Gameplaylover]

I knew that i'm a good guy.

 

[AV]

I can't blame scalpers for wanting to make an easy profit, but raising the RRP of the product is an ass-backwards solution that only benefits the wealthy and encourages companies to gouge their own products, much like nVidia JUST did with the latest Ti line.

What, should Glastonbury festival just start charging £6500 for each of the 100k tickets rather than everyone having a roughly 1 in 24 chance of being selected to buy? Fuck no.

 

[Y0ssarian]

If people want to buy my Series X for $1000 aud on ebay auction, that's not my problem

 

[nush]

Anyone remember the PS3 UK launch? That supply meeting demand and high price tag killed and pwned UK scalpers. They were stuck with multiple consoles they could barely shift at RRP. I read the room a week in advance and cancelled all my pre-orders.

 

[Imp the Dimp]

People who don`t want a MRSP of 1200$ for the RTX4080.

Would you acknowledge that there is insufficient supply for the RTX 3080 at MSRP? That is obviously the case. Let's say I want an RTX 3080 really bad. What options do I have? I could

1. wait until they're available (which could take years)
2. Check Twitter bots and other sources that notify me when an RTX is in stock
3. Pay a premium and get the product right away

Provided I have the money, option 3 is by far the most appealing to me. I don't have to wait and I don't have to waste my time on checking stores and bots. Do you acknowledge that value has been provided? The scalper essentially secured me a product and I'm paying them for their service.

 

[Jim Ryan other Clone]

Where is your market place so whoever want to order your scalped consoles can do so? This is your way of advertising in disguise of a thread..

 

[The Cockatrice]

If anyone asks why OP has no friends, show them this thread.

 

[MrTentakel]

Would you acknowledge that there is insufficient supply for the RTX 3080 at MSRP? That is obviously the case. Let's say I want an RTX 3080 really bad. What options do I have? I could

1. wait until they're available (which could take years)
2. Check Twitter bots and other sources that notify me when an RTX is in stock
3. Pay a premium and get the product right away

Provided I have the money, option 3 is by far the most appealing to me. I don't have to wait and I don't have to waste my time on checking stores and bots. Do you acknowledge that value has been provided? The scalper essentially secured me a product and I'm paying them for their service.

I could get the product at MRSP right now without the scalpers using bots to buy the whole stock the moment it`s released.

But there is one valid point: This whole shit works because there are suckers willing to pay MRSP+150%.
Same dipshits buying XP boosters, horse armor, loot boxes, NFTs -> YOLO fuckers ruining it for everybody else

 

[Three]

It's not a "fault". You're free to value a product at whatever price you deem reasonable. If you value an RTX 3080 at $1500, who is to tell you you're "wrong"?

The unethical part comes from the fact that you know something is scarce so you buy it to extort more money from sombody else who could have paid RRP had you not bought it and caused even more scarcity. Now whether that is unethical or not is up to the individual but I think it is. Same as if some douche bought a medicine company to raise prices for a specific pill by 4000% but not on the same level of unethical ofcourse.

It's a free market but there is a reason why MS and Sony themselves don't raise the price of these things themselves to lower demand because everyone would think they are a douche even though they actually make the things whereas scalpers just hit buy.

 

[MightySquirrel]

 

[winjer]

 

[Kev Kev]

What a weird hill to die on

 

[SJRB]

 

[Skyfox]

 

[Imp the Dimp]

I could get the product at MRSP right now without the scalpers using bots to buy the whole stock the moment it`s released.

Anything that can be asserted without evidence...

The unethical part comes from the fact that you know something is scarce so you buy it to extort more money from sombody else who could have paid RRP had you not bought it and caused even more scarcity. Now whether that is unethical or not is up to the individual but I think it is. Same as if some douche bought a medicine company to raise prices for a specific pill by 4000% but not on the same level of unethical ofcourse.

It's a free market but there is a reason why MS and Sony themselves don't raise the price of these things themselves to lower demand because everyone would think they are a douche even though they actually make the things whereas scalpers just hit buy.

I understand but I disagree on a least one account.

1. Pricing people out of luxury toys is not unethical even if you do it the most cutthroat way possible (which scalpers arguably do, as you aptly described). I don't care if poor people don't have access to a cutting edge console or an RTX. Poor people are priced out of virtually all luxury products and services and that's fine. Nobody needs a PS5.
2. You're probably correct that MS and Sony don't raise the prices for brand perception reasons, yes. In a perfect market with no friction they should and would increase it. Scalpers are less concerned about their clout and bite the bullet for the profits. If MS and Sony increased the prices to their actual market value, you would be able to walk into a store and just grab a PS5 or Xbox and cut out the potentially shady middleman.

 

[Gameplaylover]

The unethical part comes from the fact that you know something is scarce so you buy it to extort more money from sombody else who could have paid RRP had you not bought it and caused even more scarcity. Now whether that is unethical or not is up to the individual but I think it is.

Chicken or egg and not every reseller bought it for that purpose.

I know people have different point of views here, but to me it's simple. If get a PS5 for 499 and see all the people willing to pay 750 that makes me feel like i also paid 750, because i'm losing that money if i keep it for myself.

 

[TintoConCasera]

I don't see anything unethical in scalping a luxury product tbh. You buy it, then you do whatever the fuck you want with it because it's yours, and if some dummy ass is willing to pay 1000$ over the MSRP price then I would say that's the one to fault, and not the scalper.

Btw all those post with le funny images, yeah great way to prove a point dudes. How about posting some arguments instead so we can have some conversation.

 

[Orta]

Scalpers are essentially making use of a market failure - namely Sony/Nvidia/AMD/etc. failing to increase the prices of their products even though the supply can't meet the demand (due to a chip shortage). The fact of the matter is that there isn't enough products at MSRP for everyone who'd like one, even if you eliminated all the scalpers who buy up the products at MSRP. So either you discriminate by price (which scalpers do) or by time/luck (hitting F5 at the right time on Amazon, checking Twitter bots all day). I don't understand why the latter is more virtuous than the former. Frankly, when it comes to luxury products I prefer an auction over a lottery. Scalpers buy products at MSRP, and redistribute it to those who are willing to pay more for them, thereby providing value as the recipient doesn't have to waste their time following Twitter bots day and night. They don't affect supply because they're obviously incentivized to resell. They do affect demand as the demand for a $1500 RTX 3080 is lower than for a $800 3080 but really, that's how price discovery works. If your price is such that the product is out of stock all the time, you've priced it too low.

If you hate scalpers, you should beg for the manufacturers to raise the console and GPU prices to their actual market value (they probably don't do it for brand perception reasons or otherwise). Currently, the products are simply priced too low.

 

[rofif]

It's just economics.
PS5 is getting more available though.

 

[winjer]

Would you acknowledge that there is insufficient supply for the RTX 3080 at MSRP? That is obviously the case. Let's say I want an RTX 3080 really bad. What options do I have? I could

1. wait until they're available (which could take years)
2. Check Twitter bots and other sources that notify me when an RTX is in stock
3. Pay a premium and get the product right away

Provided I have the money, option 3 is by far the most appealing to me. I don't have to wait and I don't have to waste my time on checking stores and bots. Do you acknowledge that value has been provided? The scalper essentially secured me a product and I'm paying them for their service.

You are not providing any benefit to anyone. You are just a leach on society.
You are just taking advantage of a problem, to make a quick buck. In fact you are just making everything even worse for everyone.
Truth be told you are closer to a petty criminal, than anything else. Stop pretending you are some kind of hero or some essential part of a working society.

 

[MightySquirrel]

I see scalpers as evil creatures consuming children souls.

Imagine a kid saving his lunch money for a whole year so that he can buy his precious new console just to end up behind in line to a bot who doesn't even want the thing. Now the kid will have to wait who knows how long for the console to show up in shop or save up even more and pay evil creature the extra.

 

[Bogeyman]

Scalpers are essentially making use of a market failure - namely Sony/Nvidia/AMD/etc. failing to increase the prices of their products even though the supply can't meet the demand (due to a chip shortage). The fact of the matter is that there isn't enough products at MSRP for everyone who'd like one, even if you eliminated all the scalpers who buy up the products at MSRP. So either you discriminate by price (which scalpers do) or by time/luck (hitting F5 at the right time on Amazon, checking Twitter bots all day). I don't understand why the latter is more virtuous than the former. Frankly, when it comes to luxury products I prefer an auction over a lottery. Scalpers buy products at MSRP, and redistribute it to those who are willing to pay more for them, thereby providing value as the recipient doesn't have to waste their time following Twitter bots day and night. They don't affect supply because they're obviously incentivized to resell. They do affect demand as the demand for a $1500 RTX 3080 is lower than for a $800 3080 but really, that's how price discovery works. If your price is such that the product is out of stock all the time, you've priced it too low.

If you hate scalpers, you should beg for the manufacturers to raise the console and GPU prices to their actual market value (they probably don't do it for brand perception reasons or otherwise). Currently, the products are simply priced too low.

Your argument makes no sense, neither in a practical nor theoretical context.

Let's say the economy consists of exactly 2 people who'd like to buy new graphics cards, and one manufacturer who sells exactly two cards at MSRP $100. So there is exactly enough supply for the demand on the market.

Now a scalper comes in, writes a bot who instantly snatches up both cards for $100, and offers them back to the market for $500.
The 2 real buyers want those cards to bad they're willing to pay the scalper $500.
In the exact same situation, without the scalper, both folks would've gotten their cards for $100.

The only thing the scalper achieved was to exploit the fact real buyers were willing to pay more than the MSRP - i.e. the manufacturer could've charged more themselves.

Which, oh the surprise, is exactly what we're seeing now: Nvidia is release barely upgraded cards for twice their original MSRP.

 

[Lanrutcon]

OP is the kind of guy who would sell homeless people to butcheries if it was legal to eat people.

 

[The artful mincer]

Anything that can be asserted without evidence...

I understand but I disagree on a least one account.

1. Pricing people out of luxury toys is not unethical even if you do it the most cutthroat way possible (which scalpers arguably do, as you aptly described). I don't care if poor people don't have access to a cutting edge console or an RTX. Poor people are priced out of virtually all luxury products and services and that's fine. Nobody needs a PS5.
2. You're probably correct that MS and Sony don't raise the prices for brand perception reasons, yes. In a perfect market with no friction they should and would increase it. Scalpers are less concerned about their clout and bite the bullet for the profits. If MS and Sony increased the prices to their actual market value, you would be able to walk into a store and just grab a PS5 or Xbox and cut out the potentially shady middleman.

Only Rich People get to have Fun!!

 

[Imp the Dimp]

It's just economics.

Yes but it's also ethics. Why is scalping luxury items bad? Should we condemn secondary markets of luxury watches, cars, yachts etc. too? Have you ever shed a tear because someone bought a low supply luxury car at MSRP and resold it for a profit? Why do we accept that poor people are priced out of all sorts of luxury products and services but all of a sudden we yearn for an equitable distribution of video game consoles and GPUs? And what's the prescription? Price control? This entire outrage is so directionless. It just seems like people have an easier time coping with a shortage if they can channel their anger into one identifiable group of people who serve as scapegoats. It makes everything so much easier.

 

[RoboFu]

Scalpers take advantage of others hardship for their own gain. Sorry but they are scum.

 

[Skifi28]

Scalpers help solve problems that would be lessened if there were no scalpers. Heard it here first folks.

 

[Tommi84]

hitting F5 at the right time on Amazon, checking Twitter bots all day

You really think that what scalpers are doing and not using a bot that does all the work? Oh, poor summer child of your.

 

[Imp the Dimp]

Your argument makes no sense, neither in a practical nor theoretical context.

Let's say the economy consists of exactly 2 people who'd like to buy new graphics cards, and one manufacturer who sells exactly two cards at MSRP $100. So there is exactly enough supply for the demand on the market.

Now a scalper comes in, writes a bot who instantly snatches up both cards for $100, and offers them back to the market for $500.
The 2 real buyers want those cards to bad they're willing to pay the scalper $500.
In the exact same situation, without the scalper, both folks would've gotten their cards for $100.

The only thing the scalper achieved was to exploit the fact real buyers were willing to pay more than the MSRP - i.e. the manufacturer could've charged more themselves.

Which, oh the surprise, is exactly what we're seeing now: Nvidia is release barely upgraded cards for twice their original MSRP.

1. In your case the manufacturer priced the products too low. Let's say the willingness to pay for both customers is $500, but the manufacturer offers it for $100. That's a +$400 for the customer but a -$400 for the manufacturer. The manufacturer should've priced the product accordingly all along and the scalper is correcting for it.
2. The scalper "exploits" a market failure which is mispricing by the manufacturer.

 

[TintoConCasera]

You guys are talking like if not being able to play the hottest shit, latest AAA game at full settings would be some kind of tragedy. Like dude you can still get a PS4 or a GTX 1060 and still be able to play 90% of current releases.

Yeah I too would prefer if scalping wouldn't exist and there would be consoles and GPUs for everyone, but that's not how reality works. Low supply, high demand, high prices, that's how it works.

And yeah some could say that the unthetical part comes from those people using bots, something the average user might not be aware of how they work or use for themselves. Well I would put the blame on this on the big sellers like Amazon and the like, as they could put their money on investing on anti-bot measures or just limiting themselves to selling 1 unit to each customers. But oh surprise, they don't.

 

[STARSBarry]

Lol

This is a pretty easy to untangle.

Right now what he is arguing is that by his standards scalping is not unethical, that's it, sure its got the tone of "my opinion is fact" but that's all.

His argument relies entirely on you having the same ethical standard as the OP, which of course is diffrent from person to person.

Essentially what he wants is you to lower your ethical stand point to a level where you are also a piece of shit person, and will essentially continue to use Sea Lioning until you do or tire yourself out, thats it that's the whole thread.