It's all in the wrist
Member
Boring acquisition, given the plan to keep things as they are.
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James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
Link?
sainraja
Member
^^ He will keep on repeating this non-sense. But good on you to correct it and I will quote it to re-emphasize it.
EDIT
Can't believe I am reading this...
His original statement:
Your correction:
He tells you that you are wrong and goes on to re-state what you said (I guess you said Sony instead of Playstation
& named Spiderman given that is known now). You can't make this up. Marvel gave an IP to Sony/PlayStation who then offered it to Insomniac. You are wrong but right but you are wrong anyway! lol This is nuts.EDIT
To top it all off, the original thing that was being corrected is still accurate despite zooming in on the details and Ted Price acknowledged this in the video, Sony came to them with an offer. To re-emphasize — Sony went to Insomniac with an offer and through the offer brought to them BY SONY, they got Spiderman. In short, Sony gave Insomniac Spiderman.
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reinking
Gold Member
Even looking at it the way you are presenting it.
IP (Bungie owns) <- Bungie (Sony owns) <- Sony. The only way Sony does not own the IP is if they no longer own Bungie.
iHaunter
Member
The average IQ on this forum just gets lower and lower.
ozz ex machina
Member
You think Bungie is worth 3.4 billion dollars? Sony has been pressured into a purchase they didn't want thanks to MS. It's not worth that and buying studios at such an inflated rate is going to kill them.
iHaunter
Member
Where did you get your MBA?
ZehDon
Member
Sony wants to make a F2P Third Person Genshin Impact game using the Destiny IP. The directors of Bungie do not allow this. Sony cannot make the Genshin Impact rip off using the Destiny IP. This is the scenario.
I'd suspect the contracts, which so far appear to keep Bungie largely independent, also preclude Sony from appointing their own directors at Bungie, leaving them at the mercy of Bungie's leadership. If they don't want their IP being used, Sony can't do a whole heck of a lot about it.
Memorabilia
Member
That’s not how this works. The point is, functionally speaking Bungie retains internal decision making about Destiny as they retain ownership & publishing rights of the Destiny IP. Furthermore, if Bungie divests itself with a buyout they take the IP with them if Sony doesn’t buy it from them.
Bottom line is this is a strange duck acquisition & a killer deal for Bungie.
What’s far more interesting to me is any new IP they’ll develop (that will almost assuredly be exclusive & likely owned by Sony).
Memorabilia
Member
Random “conspiratorial” thought…while I generally agree with the principle that too much consolidation is a bad thing…
WHAT IF…
…[MS & Sony are quietly working “together” to snap up various devs & IPs to deter various other giant entities like Amazon, Apple, Google, & especially Tencent from swallowing up more properties & negatively changing the business…
Collusion is only illegal on a recorded line.
And let’s face it…all acquisitions aren’t created equal. I think most of us can agree Tencent in particular acquiring any of these companies & treasured IPs would be far worse than MS or Sony acquiring them…
WHAT IF…
…[MS & Sony are quietly working “together” to snap up various devs & IPs to deter various other giant entities like Amazon, Apple, Google, & especially Tencent from swallowing up more properties & negatively changing the business…
Collusion is only illegal on a recorded line.
And let’s face it…all acquisitions aren’t created equal. I think most of us can agree Tencent in particular acquiring any of these companies & treasured IPs would be far worse than MS or Sony acquiring them…
ChiefDada
Gold Member
What do you think buying a company means? Who do you think owns the IP now? This forum is regressing when it comes to understanding of m&a activity.
Memorabilia
Member
The contract literally lays out Bungie retaining ownership and publishing control of the Destiny IP.
Wunray
Member
That applies to the witch queen expansion, they are already separating content into other purchases i fully expect exclusive content to come out.
Memorabilia
Member
Yup. Bungie would have been a reasonably good buy at $2B. $3.6B was a very nice premium.
ManaByte
Gold Member
No it’s talking about their new GAME that they’ve had in development for a while, which has nothing to do with Destiny and is a new IP.
3liteDragon
Member
MastaKiiLA
Member
Isn't Destiny far more popular than anything from Bethesda lately? Also, I'm pretty sure Zenimax/Bethesda being up for sale was public knowledge, whereas this came out of left field. Did anyone know Bungie was up for sale?
It's say Sony paid about what you'd expect for a GaaS money printer.
Rhythmattic
Neo Member
Right... Months ago... Before the Fk Cockticks and Beth acquisition... But yeh...
EDMIX
Member
ok, but the thing you are talking about sounds like BS sir, its a "leak", yet this news is confirmed ,revealed, official etc. Why state all this info on future titles, Destiny's future, self publishing, ohhhhhh but lets keep that we own the IP a secret doe. Nahhh i doubt that a lot
Sony isn't spending 3 billion to not own an IP.
They factually are in the process of buying Bungie, thus will own that IP, unless stated otherwise, I see no reason to tell us a fucking "leak" must be true, of a deal that is public. I can agree with 3 billion and keeping them independent or have creative control as lots of teams at Sony have lots of freedom, I can agree with even the whole self publishing thing with Destiny IP, makes sense, but to tell me some bullshit that oh they also don't own the IP, yea...this is where I might have to just call bs on that my friend.
It doesn't even make sense and even questions what did they even fucking buy? Did some of you not think this thru?
So they don't publish and they don't own the IP? You didn't think that was a bit fishy and maybe that leak isn't true? lol It even sounds like selling the IP was based on the condition that they had creative freedom and could self publish the IP etc. That sounds more likely then Sony spending 3 billion just to fucking stare at Bungie. You have to carefully see how weird that sounds and undersand something of value was purchase, Sony doesn't do buy outs like this without the IP and even as great as Bungie is, they don't spend something like this solely for the team to exist freely, they had to pay with something man lol Something had to give, this sounds more like charity fanfiction shit then it does anything legitimate. So I don't see anything where Sony doesn't buy that IP.
Thats like saying MS allows Bethesda to self publish AND allows them to keep their IP AND remain independent ANNNNNND why would any fucking dumbass company spend 7 billion for such a horrid deal? Do you not think many someone was having a go at you or? lol You don't reckon they made quite a bit of sport of you?
0neAnd0nly
Member
I don't like this move, just like I don't like the Activision deal.
Consolidation sucks. It was inevitable, but still sucks.
Furthermore TBH, I would have preferred SONY tap into established 1st party studios to produce FPS (if that is a large part of what this deal is indeed about). Guerilla was built on FPS genre, but I think politics may be pushing them away from it. SOCOM needs a revival. I would imagine a 1st party shooter from an already established studio is being worked on too, I would just prefer it to an ex-Xbox team. Bungie is creative, but as Colin Moriarty pointed out recently, XBOX and Sony both have very different history with studios. Sony has been built by studios they made, bought early, or purchased because of the relationship to the Sony style. Not sure how Bungie really fits this bill. I understand it, much like I get the Activision acquisition (it's a business move), but it still sucks IMO. Ugh.
Consolidation sucks. It was inevitable, but still sucks.
Furthermore TBH, I would have preferred SONY tap into established 1st party studios to produce FPS (if that is a large part of what this deal is indeed about). Guerilla was built on FPS genre, but I think politics may be pushing them away from it. SOCOM needs a revival. I would imagine a 1st party shooter from an already established studio is being worked on too, I would just prefer it to an ex-Xbox team. Bungie is creative, but as Colin Moriarty pointed out recently, XBOX and Sony both have very different history with studios. Sony has been built by studios they made, bought early, or purchased because of the relationship to the Sony style. Not sure how Bungie really fits this bill. I understand it, much like I get the Activision acquisition (it's a business move), but it still sucks IMO. Ugh.
DavJay
Member
We had an idea Bungie was looking for a buyout back in 2020. We knew more about this than Bethesda. Even Todd Howard didn’t know until it was almost announced.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
It's a completely different situation to say that Bungie retains creative control and leadership for their own IP and titles and another thing to say that Sony DOES NOT own the Destiny IP.
People are really jumping to conclusions on things that make absolutely zero sense. If Sony didn't ALSO own the IP, the purchase price would NOT have been 3.6 Billion. Sony would have simply signed a long-term 2nd party deal similar to what they had with Activision if Bungie were to retain both independence and ownership of the IP.
Bungie's ownership GOT PAID. If the relationship goes south, Sony still owns Bungie, their properties, their offices, and the disgruntled ex-Bungie executives would need to move on to create another studio (ala Respawn, Deviation, Firewalk, etc). HOWEVER, this is not in either party's interest, and as part of the deal for selling out Sony agreed to terms with regards to allowing them to have creative independence, which Sony is TOTALLY fine with because they are buying Bungie explicitly for their expertise in GaaS which Sony does not have at all.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Destiny is done anyway. there wont be a destiny 3. its a f2p game now with paid DLC every few months until 2025 when their new IP comes out.
I wouldnt be surprised if Sony bought Bungie because they hated losing out on starfield and dont want another big AAA new IP going to microsoft.
Lone Wolf
Member
I don’t think Bungie has the rights to the Myth ip
ManaByte
Gold Member
Take Two owns it. Bungie only has Marathon and Destiny.
EDMIX
Member
Who is to say thats not already happening?
lol just stop man, i really like the Killzone IP, but its clearly not moving enough units vs how much it cost and Horizon Zero Dawn moved record units for them. Logic, realitly and simply business common sense moved them away from that IP. It doesn't work out and we got 5 games out of it, its time ot move on to other IP.
I don't buy that the hit they need in that genre will come from anything established. Can anyone on here even name 1 MP IP that was even revived that went on to do legendary numbers or something? They are already dated, have a stigma against them and as great as Killzone is, those that said no to the IP, will continue to say no. It makes more sense to go with teams that have proven records in this area like Bungie, make new IP etc.
Keep in mind, that isn't a Sony thing, I'd say that for any fucking publisher looking to move units on a massive MP title. If you just failed on several IP, leave it alone, make a new and move the fuck on. Thats like saying some wild shit like "Hey, lets tap into Anthem" or "Hey, lets tap in to dat Fallout 76" ohhhh the ones that failed? Remind people of the IP that failed, by doing it again as if they will care THIS time? nah.
I'd love a Killzone 2 remake, I'd love a Socom Reboot all of that is day 1 for me don't get me wrong, I don't believe however that is where the next massive MP IP will come from in regards to Sony. Look at APEX, look at Fortnite, look at PUGB...all new IP.
I don't see any evidence that the next massive MP title, will be one many passed up for generations on end. I don't see any data to even support gamers care about that, look at how their asses act like with Overwatch lol They want new concepts, they want new IP.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
I don't think Destiny is dead.
I actually think Bungie's long-term goal is to have multiple "generation spanning" GaaS titles at once (that's what they mentioned in the press release). They will have a new IP but also keep evolving Destiny. They have 1000+ employees and growing. No reason to abandon Destiny, especially with the genre that their new IP is rumored to be.
ManaByte
Gold Member
They’re not working on a Destiny 3. The new game is a new IP.
Bungie isn’t exactly a big publisher. They just self publish the F2P Destiny 2.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Yes, they maintain operational control of the IP which is huge, but as a wholly owned subsidiary, Sony owns the IP. You should think of this like Berkshire Hathaway's (Sony) relationship with Geico Insurance (Bungie).
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
They don't need to be working on Destiny 3 to continue supporting it.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
its either sony or microsoft, or Mark Zuckerberg or worse a bunch of concentration camp running commies. Pick your poison.
Consolidation was always going to happen. The pandemic just accelerated it. It made these companies billions upon billions in profits while the rest of us suffered. Look at Apple's quarterly profits. $125 billion in revenue. $50 billion in profits. In 3 months. Microsoft made $24 billion in profit in the last 3 months. they are all sitting on a lot of cash and that cash is going to worth less next year thanks to inflation. Any companies they buy today will be worth a whole lot more next year.
Just prepare yourself mentally for at least 3-4 more acquisitions. When its all said and done, Sony and MS wouldve split between them Ubisoft, EA, Take2 and Square enix. If they dont, Tencent, Apple and Meta will.
Elbow Identity Shallow
Member
I don't thin Destiny is going anywhere for quite some time, however what we may see moving forwards is an expansion from them being a single title studio.
I still don't feel that this is just about games though, it's worth remembering that Sony really isn't just games, they're also massive in terms of other types of media which is pretty unusual for games companies. I think moving forwards film, TV, music, etc, is going to be a major part of the major games companies moving forwards and this is no more than a part of that.
I still don't feel that this is just about games though, it's worth remembering that Sony really isn't just games, they're also massive in terms of other types of media which is pretty unusual for games companies. I think moving forwards film, TV, music, etc, is going to be a major part of the major games companies moving forwards and this is no more than a part of that.
ethomaz
Banned
That doesn’t exists.
If you own a company you own their IPs.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
oh i dont think its dead, I just think it will be a smaller game they support on the side while the main team works on the next big IP. There are currently no plans for Destiny 3 and i think its because they realized that people dont like buying new games and starting over. It will likely become a monthly sub like FF14 or Warcraft before they release a destiny 3.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
The Bungie acquisition is literally the best case scenario
None of their games are exclusive. Bungie gets to hire more employees and get the funding/support they need to grow bigger and better
I am still unsure of Microsoft's purchases. Bethesda exclusivity certainly stings, and the potential for CoD single player to become exclusive along with the rest of activision would be a pretty big blow.
But if you're an Xbox exclusive owner/fan, I don't see anything to be mad about with Bungie getting acquired
0neAnd0nly
Member
To respond to your points:
First - I literally said in the following sentence or two that I believe it was happening. I didn't say it wasn't. I would just prefer Sony to put more funding and juice into what they have and their resources.
Second - I don't make the claim on politics (and I want to be careful here to not violate rules) without some reason. I was in the industry for a bit, and actually had a small relationship (very small) with Guerilla of the late 00s. The company is much different today IMO. IMO, KZ was a very solid shooter that did pretty decent numbers. It would never compete with CoD for sure, but it was good enough online MP to do a solid work from inside. There have been many rumors over the last couple of years that GG is attached to SOCOM as well, fwiw. I am fine with either coming back.
I am not a console warrior or speaking reactionary. I post what I believe in based on what I know from my time in and around the industry, and the fact that I enjoy following it.
This move isn't good. Corporations aren't your friend and making a few MEGA ones and pushing gaming farther from the outlaw / outsider beginnings just doesn't sit well with me. Sorry if that upset you.
No hard feelings regardless. We just see things different.
ethomaz
Banned
A subsidiary can have any power the owner wants… they can publish, decide, whatever…
The subsidiary and all its assets and IPs are still owned by Sony.
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Oddvintagechap
Member
Sony should buy the rights.
kyliethicc
Member
"I would back us to do [live-service games] ourselves, but when you have the potential to have a partner like Bungie who has been there, done it all before, learned the lessons and have got this wonderful, brilliant team who is there and has the potential to help us... we think we can take something that would have taken a certain number of years, and significantly decrease the time it will take to get it right."
Jimbo basically says they want Bungie to help PlayStation Studios make online service games.
Jimbo basically says they want Bungie to help PlayStation Studios make online service games.
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ethomaz
Banned
That can happen if they buy Take Two.
Sony should buy the rights.
In any case any worth IP from Take Two is GTA… that is what you will be paying for.
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tmlDan
Member
were you part of the negotiations? how would you know that?
geary
Member
I will not be surprised if we are start getting back the content Bungie removed from D2. Content that was paid by the customer. That was th shittiest move from them. They even sell Forkasen expansion on steam now, knowing in 2 weeks will be removed.
For this i cannot trust Bungie.
For this i cannot trust Bungie.
All these aquistitions will lead to 1 or 2 companies owning the vast majority of the creative talent and major games in the industry.
Monopolies and oligopolies result in the complete disempowerment of consumers.
Think about cable and phone companies and how horrible and powerless people are when dealing with their exploitative practices. Don't like one, well tough luck, the competitor is just as bad and they all conspire together to constantly increase prices while offering a peppercorn more.
In 10-15 years no one will own games, they'll all just be exlcusively available on a few companies' subscription services, which lets face it, every company is ultimately after. They want you paying annually what you would formerly pay for once. Similar to MS. Office.
I'm generally not a chicken little type of person, but all these aquistitions in the AAA industry is starting to look very much like the sky is falling.
Be ready to pay $30-40 a month to play AAA games and have no other options to just buy a game. If the average console owner buys 10 games in its life cycle (5/6 years), a subscription will have people buy the equivalent of 5-6 a year. We should end MS/Sony brand loyalty and resist this consolidation of the industry.
Monopolies and oligopolies result in the complete disempowerment of consumers.
Think about cable and phone companies and how horrible and powerless people are when dealing with their exploitative practices. Don't like one, well tough luck, the competitor is just as bad and they all conspire together to constantly increase prices while offering a peppercorn more.
In 10-15 years no one will own games, they'll all just be exlcusively available on a few companies' subscription services, which lets face it, every company is ultimately after. They want you paying annually what you would formerly pay for once. Similar to MS. Office.
I'm generally not a chicken little type of person, but all these aquistitions in the AAA industry is starting to look very much like the sky is falling.
Be ready to pay $30-40 a month to play AAA games and have no other options to just buy a game. If the average console owner buys 10 games in its life cycle (5/6 years), a subscription will have people buy the equivalent of 5-6 a year. We should end MS/Sony brand loyalty and resist this consolidation of the industry.
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tmlDan
Member
which contract? link it.
kingfey
Banned
Its like bethesda. They have total control. They report to Phil now. Same with Activision in the future.
XGS doesn't publish bethesda/zenimax games. Bethesda/Todd is the one that does it.
Different is, they won't publish on the other console. Same with bungie in the future.
ZehDon
Member
Considering IP rights are a business on to themselves and typically form a separate component to any business acquisition, you really should do some reading on a topic before posting about it. Short answer: no, you don't automatically take ownership of IPs when you buy a company unless the IPs are specifically sold as part of that acquisition.