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Sony president wants Bungie to be better at ‘assuming accountability for development timelines’
- Thread starter Topher
- Start date
ResilientBanana
Member
I bet all these game devs fuck around during the dev cycle, then find out during crunch time. These fucks get lunches catered half the time with snacks up the ass, as well as bean bag chairs, arcade machines and so forth. I could care less that they have shit hours at the end of the dev cycle. Let’s top that last statement off with the fact that most games are riddle with bugs and glaring flaws out the gate, not to mention the bullshit inorganic woke story lines that fit their agenda.
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clarky
Gold Member
Sooner half the industry gets replaced with AI that can't be bargained or reasoned with, that works 24/7 and QA's games to an inch of their lives the better.
ResilientBanana
Member
I wholeheartedly agree. Bring on the emotionless AI toolsets and their flawless code.
Perrott
Gold Member
Because the expertise they brought into the table is evident by the success of Helldivers II.
Remember, Helldivers II was meant to come out over a year and a half ago, but was delayed (alongside most of the live-service lineup) in order to account for Bungie's feedback into how these product should hit the market.
reinking
Gold Member
...as long as you get me out before lunch. Don't let me spend all day in knitting class and then drop the hammer.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
That explains the low profit margins; SIE are directly absorbing the costs of Bungie, seemingly divvied in irregular amounts quarter-by-quarter.
So it also makes sense Totoki would want Bungie in particular to be smarter with their spending (tho of course, other SIE studios being better with spending would also be desired).
Should hopefully stop the doom-and-gloom threads for a while...but it probably won't
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Eh, nah.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Shit wouldnt be hitting the fan if it was solely based on some integration charges. Those are irregular costs any company can get hit with. The exec's focus on margin and aggressive multiplat gaming goes beyond Bungie costs. If it was just a matter of waiting out the Bungie costs and get to the "record profit in the PS5 generation", the stock wouldnt had dropped 10% the past week. Abnormal cost charges that can be explained (esp. Bungie charges that would be communicated since they bought them around 2 years ago) wouldnt sink the stock like it did.
That explains the low profit margins; SIE are directly absorbing the costs of Bungie, seemingly divvied in irregular amounts quarter-by-quarter.
So it also makes sense Totoki would want Bungie in particular to be smarter with their spending (tho of course, other SIE studios being better with spending would also be desired).
Should hopefully stop the doom-and-gloom threads for a while...but it probably won't
Bernardougf
Gold Member
And people wonder why game development is going to shit .. this generation is pathetic
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
It's best they wait for knitting class to end.
At that point, you'll be the most happy all day, so when they fire you you'll accept it better. If you get into a hissyfit, management's next step is to ensure you get to keep the knitting needles free of charge and as many balls of yarn you can carry.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Bungie is a classic case of a mercenary. They got zero allegiance except whichever big corporation offers the biggest purchase price or partnership deal. Give them 5-6 years and going by past history they'll break away from Sony. And then another large company (maybe EA or T2 who have bucks) will do a deal with them.
The difference this time is Sony is a Japanese company. Their gaming HQ might be California, but dont be surprised if some Japanese influence about efficiencies come into effect even though it's US soil.
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peish
Member
Totoki sounds like a bad ass slave driver 
wonder if this clown ever got a real job again? imagine Insomniac wasting paid time arguing about Rivet boobs....
wonder if this clown ever got a real job again? imagine Insomniac wasting paid time arguing about Rivet boobs....
Ratchet & Clank developer quits Insomniac because of Rivet. - PlayStation 5
For PlayStation 5 on the PlayStation 5, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "Ratchet & Clank developer quits Insomniac because of Rivet.".
gamefaqs.gamespot.com
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
Unlike the Xbox division with Zenimax and ABK, SIE is directly absorbing the costs of their M&As. It's not being passed on to the corp as a whole.
The ongoing accounting costs for Bungie are a particular factor for the thinner profit margins, but the other things like increased costs for component manufacture, likely production wind-up for PS5 Pro, increased licensing costs for content in services like PS+, increased costs for general software development (both with 1P and 3P), and the such are other factors. It's just that associated costs for the Bungie M&A were not floated around as a key component contributing to the lower profits, when it should have been mentioned front-and-center.
Also Totoki seemingly came to clarify what they meant by multiplatform, and it's more or less the current strategy. PS5 consoles, PC, and likely more of a focus on mobile. I still have concerns about how they successfully handle that expansion on PC and mobile (specifically PC) and do so without devaluing their console, but "multiplatform" in Sony's case doesn't mean Nintendo and it doesn't mean Xbox, at least not beyond the typical small handful of games like MLB The Show and Destiny 2 (and when it's ready, Marathon).
As for the stock drop, well investors and the stock market are generally stupid and overreact to fiscal news regularly. Things related to the Bungie costs might not have been clearly communicated or understood and therefore those reacting didn't think to consider it as a factor, reading more into the thinner profit margins than speculated. Also even though PS5 didn't miss sales targets by that much for the quarter (they're still on track to do between 22.5 - 23.5 million for the FY), it did still miss a target, and for some of these investors that's like the end of the world.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
When it comes to gaming, why would you trust what any exec says regarding sensitive info like game releases or multiplat?
Look at where Sony is today with PC ports, day one PC GAAS and MLB The Show. It all started slowly in 2020 and it's snowballed.
If anyone asked one of the execs in 2019 or early 2020 what their PC porting strategy is, they'd say there are no PC ports. What are you talking about? Then in 2020 they announced Horizon ZD out of nowhere for PC, releasing in Aug 2020.
laynelane
Member
Here's some interesting information about your MLB The Show example.
‘MLB The Show 21’ releasing on Xbox wasn’t Sony’s decision
A Sony rep has said that MLB's decision to release 'MLB The Show 21' on Xbox stems from its desire to "bring the franchise to more players"
www.nme.com
If it was Sony's decision, it wouldn't be on Xbox. I don't think there's any argument to refute that.
ProtoByte
Member
I still think it's applicable. Guerilla is pretty beyond reproach atm, but Santa Monica, Naughty Dog and Insomniac need some restructuring.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
We're not in 2020 though, we're in 2024. And we also have revenue results for the PC ports from the Insomniac hack, we have porting budget ranges too. The revenue results from the more recent ports have not been great, and that's data SIE would be providing to Sony on a regular basis.
We also have Jim Ryan's own quote, that PC is a competing platform with PlayStation consoles, and I don't think his words would be taken lightly by higher-ups if he says something like that. Helldivers 2 is doing big numbers right now on PS5 and Steam, but it's not proof that Day 1 for all 1P games going forward is going to become a thing now or even many years from now. There is too much value in the console when it comes to the role of exclusive software, to erroneously ruin that dynamic just to maybe get a few extra bucks.
Because, as we've seen with certain other console platforms, you can't grow on PC with a carte blanche Day 1 policy on all software, and not shrink in relevance within the console market. And if the revenue from that strategy isn't panning out, you're forced to use inorganic M&As of big 3P publishers to stimulate growth, at least in theory. If anything Helldivers 2 shows that Day 1 for more GaaS titles on PC (and I would add, mobile for the ones that can scale down for it) makes sense.
But it's a balanced strategy that has to be considered; after all console gaming is significantly more important to Sony's bottom line than it is Microsoft's. So by that notion, it'd require a more nuanced approach. Day 1 on PC for anything but most GaaS that get ported to the platform (and most Remasters I'd add, some Remakes and some AA non-GaaS titles), would directly contribute to market decline for the PlayStation console.
We already have too much evidence with another certain console brand to support this idea.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
So this cost isn't coming out of their own cash on hand, but ongoing profitability?
I thought Sony had set aside funds for acquisitions? That idea seems to be completely out the window, but I thought Bungie fell into that bucket.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
if Sony wanted to not release MLB on Xbox they could stop making the franchise entirely. But they decided to keep making the game so it includes Xbox and now switch too.Here's some interesting information about your MLB The Show example.
‘MLB The Show 21’ releasing on Xbox wasn’t Sony’s decision
A Sony rep has said that MLB's decision to release 'MLB The Show 21' on Xbox stems from its desire to "bring the franchise to more players"
If it was Sony's decision, it wouldn't be on Xbox. I don't think there's any argument to refute that.
//DEVIL//
Member
I feel like this guy at Sony will be framed soon for something and kicked out.
He is been talking allllooottt lately and not in a positive way about his team
laynelane
Member
Do you really think they would take the financial loss just because they had to port to Xbox? From what I can tell, PS is not run by internet console warriors so I highly doubt 'cutting off one's nose to spite one's face' was ever an option.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
And most of the ports on PC didnt do well because all of them are old ports. Even then, GOW sold 3M copies on PC in 2022 alone. By now it might be another million. Who knows. Pretty good for a 4 year old port. If that game was day one PC, maybe it sells double.
H2 is sony's first day one PC game and it's blown out all of those ports probably combined after a couple weeks.
Sony wouldn't be buying Nixxes for ports, and doing all these PC ports and GAAS day one games if there wasnt a benefit.
If day one games on PC are so bad, why are GAAS so special they are excluded? Just wall them off only on PS systems and hoard 100% of the revenue. Dont forget, a lot of gamers will be PS/PC gamers too, so for those gamers with both systems, playing H2 on PC just lost Sony an extra 30% when that gamer would had got it on PS5.
reinking
Gold Member
Topher
Gold Member
Well.....he is only the interim CEO so just a temporary gig, but I don't think he is saying anything folks didn't already know as far as Bungie is concerned. Seems like Bungie needed a swift kick on the backside and........here it is.
Call it "tough love".
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Well.....he is only the interim CEO so just a temporary gig, but I don't think he is saying anything folks didn't already know as far as Bungie is concerned. Seems like Bungie needed a swift kick on the backside and........here it is.
Call it "tough love".
He also just called out Management at Bungie; not the employees. He praised their creativity and passion.
Which is what we've heard - some of Bungie management is BAD and they don't listen to the issues expressed by their devs
ReBurn
Gold Member
He's not concerned about morale. He's saying what investors want to hear.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Just do what other companies do. Issue out waves of PIP evaluations. Nothing perks up people more than that. And if they are pissed, even better. They leave on their own as they see the writing on the wall with zero severance pay and the company can rehire better people later.Well.....he is only the interim CEO so just a temporary gig, but I don't think he is saying anything folks didn't already know as far as Bungie is concerned. Seems like Bungie needed a swift kick on the backside and........here it is.
Call it "tough love".
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TheDarkPhantom
Member
1. Destiny is one of the most overrated IP's in the history of the medium. Yea, I said it.
2. PlayStation wasted a colossal amount of money on Bungie and they haven't done jack shit since. Helldivers 2 taking the world by storm but not without numerous server/online issues, where was Bungie and their "expertise" when needed?
3. Marathon had better deliver the goods or we might see a Bungie fire sale.
4. Knitting Club = fuck off
2. PlayStation wasted a colossal amount of money on Bungie and they haven't done jack shit since. Helldivers 2 taking the world by storm but not without numerous server/online issues, where was Bungie and their "expertise" when needed?
3. Marathon had better deliver the goods or we might see a Bungie fire sale.
4. Knitting Club = fuck off
Kokoloko85
Member
Id rather they look at Insomniac. They releases 4 games since 2018 which is more
Impressive
Impressive
HoodWinked
Member
Bungie has typically done better when they had some scrutiny from some parent corporation. Microsoft and Activision kept them from having consecutive embarrassments.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Weak men create hard times.
Sushi_Combo
Member
Media Molecule is up there.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Sony was offered the full fat license like EA with Madden, with that, came third party with it, as the license implies.Here's some interesting information about your MLB The Show example.
‘MLB The Show 21’ releasing on Xbox wasn’t Sony’s decision
A Sony rep has said that MLB's decision to release 'MLB The Show 21' on Xbox stems from its desire to "bring the franchise to more players"
If it was Sony's decision, it wouldn't be on Xbox. I don't think there's any argument to refute that.
Prior, they had a first party license which means anyone could also buy a first party (MS didn't, even though they bought the High Heat IP and vaulted it back in the OG Xbox days to entice EA to their console and eliminate their competition when they were doing Triple Play/MVP Baseball) and 2K failed badly with the 3rd party license and gave it up. MLB themselves failed with the 3rd party license and dropped making RBI Baseball after only 2 years.
Sony's license was up for renewal, so they took on the 3rd party full on which helps grow their version of MUT/FUT mode in Diamond Dynasty.
It was a mutual agreement. They could have just kept the first party license. There was nobody else to fill the third party shoes. There was no gun to anyone's head. Now, Sony is basically Madden for baseball.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
IIRC, the cash-on-hand was reduced quite a bit between fiscal quarters due to market and strategy changes. Yurinka has noted the reductions multiple times in various posts of his.
Sony will likely (hopefully) set up more funds for M&As, key 3P investments, key 3P share purchases etc. once this FY is over with and the new FY begins. That would probably be the plan, anyway. But with current cash-on-hand reduced, it makes sense costs associated to Bungie and other acquisitions would be taken from the profits of the gaming unit itself.
And if it were on PC Day 1, it'd of probably sold half the number of copies on PlayStation that it managed. As a platform holder, which do you think is more valuable: 3/4ths of all your lifetime copies selling at full MSRP and with getting 100% of the profits (after accounting for retailer cuts), or 3/4ths of all your lifetime copies selling at reduced MSRP and only getting 70% of the profits (after account for the Valve cut)?
Not a hard question to answer IMO.
No it's not; Predator: Hunting Grounds was also Day 1 between both and bombed. So a game being Day 1 on both console and PC is not a guarantee that the PC sales are going to be massive or complement the console sales well.
Nixxes has already been operating at full capacity and you can see what that means. It doesn't seem to mean Day 1 PC for non-GaaS tentpole releases whatsoever.
Of course there is a benefit to the PC ports and GaaS titles being Day 1 in particular. But that benefit is immediately negated and becomes an albatross if it's a carte blanche policy for ALL games being Day 1 to PC, because the value proposition of the console to a sizable subset of hardcore and core enthusiasts sinks like a stone.
And that, negatively impacts future hardware adoption rates and overall revenue & profits, because those customers suddenly get many more reasons to just shift all or the vast majority of their 1P/3P/MTX/DLC etc. business to PC.
And, as a platform holder whose breadwinner is the console, you don't want that. Because those are the customers who are giving you the most money (highest ARPU) by far, and the best ROI for your own per-customer investments into the product.
Because GaaS titles require large player bases. Also, historically speaking PlayStation's brand identity console-wise isn't based around GaaS titles (or even MP titles for that matter).
Even then, Sony will likely still have some GaaS that don't come to PC, or don't come to PC Day 1, because they won't require it. Again, case-by-case. But the ones that go to PC can be effectively used to promote and expand the reach of the brand, and PC gamers who may have a PlayStation but don't really use it, or don't have a PlayStation at all, might be interested in picking one up and using it more for content only available there, to complement their PC gaming.
And on that topic Totoki is 100% correct.
Unknown Soldier
Member
All the Latinx/e/r/t/x/y/z employees at Bungie are too busy with their basket weaving classes to actually make games