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[VGC] Halo Infinite developer concedes ‘the community is out of patience’

STARSBarry

Gold Member
1q7BYhZ
1q7BYhZ_d.webp


Here are the words Gaffers used to describe Halo as there 2021 GOTY

My personal fav is Coop, yes because Halo infinite is chock full of that...

See if you can spot the pairs of words that directly contradict each other, it's something that was noticeable unique to Halo, which had a much wider spread than the rest of the winners on the word map.
 
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II_JumPeR_I

Member
1q7BYhZ
1q7BYhZ_d.webp


Here are the words Gaffers used to describe Halo as there 2021 GOTY

My personal fav is Coop, yes because Halo infinite is chock full of that...

See if you can spot the pairs of words that directly contradict each other, it's something that was noticeable unique to Halo, which had a much wider spread than the rest of the winners on the word map.
Is this all what Senj said? 😂
 

kingpotato

Ask me about my Stream Deck
That door swings both ways though.
Top 5 GAF picks:

1983 replies

2194 replies

3342 replies

1127 replies

1046 replies

You tell me which game GAF was more interested in.
 

Lognor

Banned
1q7BYhZ
1q7BYhZ_d.webp


Here are the words Gaffers used to describe Halo as there 2021 GOTY

My personal fav is Coop, yes because Halo infinite is chock full of that...

See if you can spot the pairs of words that directly contradict each other, it's something that was noticeable unique to Halo, which had a much wider spread than the rest of the winners on the word map.
You don't know how to read this, huh?

You found the word coop in small print and thought you found a gotcha moment.

But that's not how this works.

Maybe comments included things like "fun gameplay. epic fun. best halo ever. can't wait for coop. My GOTY easily!"

So no, that pic does not contradict like you think it does.

Why don't you go do a deep dive and find every post that includes the word coop and look at the context. Then report back with your analysis. thx
 

ethomaz

Banned
1q7BYhZ
1q7BYhZ_d.webp


Here are the words Gaffers used to describe Halo as there 2021 GOTY

My personal fav is Coop, yes because Halo infinite is chock full of that...

See if you can spot the pairs of words that directly contradict each other, it's something that was noticeable unique to Halo, which had a much wider spread than the rest of the winners on the word map.
Wait somebody really voted with features that the game doesn’t have?

Emotional?
Calm, stress?
Buggy but nobugs?
 
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STARSBarry

Gold Member

I mean thats a tottaly reasonable assumption that people would ignore the "what words would you use to describe the game" and all type entire sentences into the box rather than you know a word, I mean sure some will but who the hell does that 3 times for every game they nominate?

Look I know you want to feel really smart or something but let's just leave it as you clearly strawmanning and move on k?
 
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adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Top 5 GAF picks:

1983 replies

2194 replies

3342 replies

1127 replies

1046 replies

You tell me which game GAF was more interested in.

People should have voted more then lol, replies to a topic is not a real measure cause it could just be the same few people talking back and forth.
 

ethomaz

Banned
You don't know how to read this, huh?

You found the word coop in small print and thought you found a gotcha moment.

But that's not how this works.

Maybe comments included things like "fun gameplay. epic fun. best halo ever. can't wait for coop. My GOTY easily!"

So no, that pic does not contradict like you think it does.

Why don't you go do a deep dive and find every post that includes the word coop and look at the context. Then report back with your analysis. thx
This pic is based in the three words you have to describe the game you voted, no? It is not from forum posts… if you voted in GAF’s GOTY you should know the form asked you three words about the game you voted as GOTY.

Go help starsbarry with his deep dive into the this pic.
You seems to have no ideia what you are even talking.
 
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kingpotato

Ask me about my Stream Deck
People should have voted more then lol, replies to a topic is not a real measure cause it could just be the same few people talking back and forth.
So by that logic, you are saying not even one person on this forum cares to post about the greatest game 2021 has to offer?

What was your banned account username from last year? Just want to see if I had your previous account on ignore before it was locked.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
So by that logic, you are saying not even one person on this forum cares to post about the greatest game 2021 has to offer?
Huh ?

I don't know what you're implying, are you implying the voting was rigged ?

When you have a negative news topic it's usually polluted by the detractors coming to gloat, such as we're seeing here.

Other than that people are talking about the game in the appropriate topics.


What was your banned account username from last year? Just want to see if I had your previous account on ignore before it was locked.

:messenger_tears_of_joy:

I never thought community based awards would've irked people this much.
 

Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
No way. The core game is fantastic. There is a reason it won GOTY last year. To scrap that is a ridiculous thing to say. They just need to provide content and provide it soon and in a consistent manner going forward. It's a great game, what there is of it at least!

It won because of console warriors and morons who spent too much money on a blatant scam.

The game is an insult to long time fans and shows, without a shadow of a doubt that 343i is a piss poor company with management that should have been fired after the first failure nearly a decade ago.
 

6502

Member
the game is dead to me now. i enjoyed it but i was wanting more single player stuff. i'm not interested in multiplayer/co-op shite.

let me know if they ever do SP DLC/expansion. i might download it again.
Agree. Would it really be that hard to allow mission replay or add a random base generator so we have some new targets? Or even have bases "recaptured"? The map is empty and dead after the finish...
 
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Banjo64

cumsessed
wah ? when did that happen ? 4 to 5 years between sequels is pretty common, and we already know The Coalition is busy adapting Unreal Engine 5 on the Series consoles with a smaller project coming first. What else will they be adapting the tech over for, a new Gears undoubtedly.
Gears 1-3 multiplayer were hugely, hugely popular with massive player bases and held in the same regard as the top FPS shooters of the day.

Gears 4 & 5’s player base absolutely deserted it in a similar fashion to Infinite’s.
 

STARSBarry

Gold Member
Yes i kno who speaks for it, the people who actually play the game aka the community. Not you.

You and your discord flunkies should fire up the game, those steam charts could use a bit of a boost lmfao

Man wish I played Halo infinite and knew what I was talking about.

l44AQzq_d.webp


Am I allowed to point the flaws out in the gameplay yet?

I really, really wanted this title to be good, and after Forza Horizon I had hope Microsoft could pull it off...

But 343i dropped the ball again... and went trend chasing with GaaS. I honestly believe that whenever forge arrives 343i will attempt to sell "forge packs" of exclusive items to help build your map or custom game mode, it will be that bad...

Christ I just wanted BTB to work, but it never did and the stupid FOMO timed challenges every week and there stupid fake manufactured esports scene... it was just awful.

There are so many ways the game could have launched better, and in the months afterwards it feels like they have concentrated on the store and those FOMO "special events" which required huge backlash to even reward players without them having to pay.

It's no wonder even the most diehard is getting fed up, they know how 343i operate and most are not willing to wait anouther 5 years for the game they where promised at launch.
 
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Exanthus

Banned
I love Halo. Just not 343 and how they have managed this apparent "live service".
I'm itching to play the game. But there's nothing in it right now.
 
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VAVA Mk2

Member
They've EARNED ALL of the criticism. They've had 6 YEARS to make a game. 6. And what they released was great, but it was very bare-bones. And people have been more than patient with literally nothing to show for it.

At a minimum, they should have had Forge ready to go. Forge would have at least helped alleviate content drought. As it is, it's a great game, with not enough to do. I'm not mad at it as I didn't buy it on release and won't buy it until FORGE AND Co-op are in the game. As it stands, management of 343 from Franky on up should be fired, they've mismanaged one of the biggest franchises on the planet and they only have themselves to blame.

How you don't even have a SMIDGE of cross-promotion for the HALO show in your game is beyond me. We can get Doritos and Mountain Dew cross-promo, but Odin-forbid we have the show be a thing to promote in the game the show is based off of. It's crazy how terribly the franchise has been mismanaged and how much leeway Msft has given to 343.
Agreed. Keep Staten. Fire Frankie, Ross, and Wolfkill. Offer Marcus Lehto a buttload of money and a management level position and bring him back as he already on social media basically shows he misses Halo. Let's rebuild Halo era Bungie without Jason Jones or Harold Ryan.
 
This is a textbook example of what people mean when they say GAAS and Subscription gaming will be the downfall of console gaming. Every good franchise is getting guttedfor the sake of keeping people locked into a service but its having the opposite affect.

We’ve hit a point of diminishing returns where the service game gold rush topped out and now everyone else is just trying to pick up the crumbs
 

kingpotato

Ask me about my Stream Deck
Huh ?

I don't know what you're implying, are you implying the voting was rigged ?

When you have a negative news topic it's usually polluted by the detractors coming to gloat, such as we're seeing here.

Other than that people are talking about the game in the appropriate topics.
I'm implying some people voted in a disingenuous way. Either for Halo as a protest against another game, or perhaps based on the brand, or perhaps because it came out the day the voting open it was what they played last. I can believe the votes were there, just not that it's actually deserving.

I don't know about gloating, but I personally am pissed they still haven't delivered co-op campaign, my favorite way to play Halo.
 

Kagoshima_Luke

Gold Member
I mean... they were set to launch, then at the last minute delay for 1 year... and after that year they launch in beta. Game still doesn't have campaign co-op, a staple of the franchise.

343 needed to be pulled off of Halo years ago. Maybe if they would have done this, Halo Infinite wouldn't be currently at 3K viewers on Twitch. On a Friday evening. Which is lower than amazing and relevant games such as Yu-Gi_oh Master Duel, Hot Wheels Unleashed and Heroes of the Storm.
 

ethomaz

Banned
I mean... they were set to launch, then at the last minute delay for 1 year... and after that year they launch in beta. Game still doesn't have campaign co-op, a staple of the franchise.

343 needed to be pulled off of Halo years ago. Maybe if they would have done this, Halo Infinite wouldn't be currently at 3K viewers on Twitch. On a Friday evening. Which is lower than amazing and relevant games such as Yu-Gi_oh Master Duel, Hot Wheels Unleashed and Heroes of the Storm.
I hardly believe they were set to launch in 2020.
 

Leyasu

Banned
This is a textbook example of what people mean when they say GAAS and Subscription gaming will be the downfall of console gaming. Every good franchise is getting guttedfor the sake of keeping people locked into a service but its having the opposite affect.

We’ve hit a point of diminishing returns where the service game gold rush topped out and now everyone else is just trying to pick up the crumbs
You are not even subtle. GAAS or subs have nothing to do with it. Your comment would be valid if this is what they had released after 2yrs of dev time. The fact that they needed 6yrs to release this disaster and are still woefully behind puts this squarely on 343.

You either already know this and are just trolling as usual or just are just stupid beyond compare.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
What will get ray tracing on console first? Minecraft or Halo Infinite? :messenger_tears_of_joy:

I don't think they ever even hinted that Infinite would get any kind of RT support.

Unlike Minecraft which actually *GOT* RT support "by accident" a week ago.
 

kikkis

Member
Despite reviewers and some gamers praising the game being return to form and core gameplay being fun and unique, personally I don't think it's the case after all. I don't think it's lack of new maps that is the reason people don't want to play the game, core gameplay just isnt fun enough.
 

NeonGhost

uses 'M$' - What year is it? Not 2002.
whats the deal with 343i anyway? dont they have like over 500+ employees at the studio and yet they couldnt even implement co-op for launch and than they dont deliver it on time and delay it? they taking the piss!?
Yeah taking a piss in their gender neutral bathrooms
 

Barakov

Gold Member
They clawed some good will back and then almost immediately squandered it. A pretty typical case of bad management. But that's been 343's story though. Halo is one of Xbox's premiere franchises, they should have all hands on deck to make sure stuff like this doesn't happen.
 
No way. The core game is fantastic. There is a reason it won GOTY last year. To scrap that is a ridiculous thing to say. They just need to provide content and provide it soon and in a consistent manner going forward. It's a great game, what there is of it at least!
I agree completely. The multiplayer is great, just needs more maps, modes, and a different rewards/bounty system. Players will come back when they add some things. Forge could be an amazing addition that could add endless variety.
 

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
This is a textbook example of what people mean when they say GAAS and Subscription gaming will be the downfall of console gaming. Every good franchise is getting guttedfor the sake of keeping people locked into a service but its having the opposite affect.

We’ve hit a point of diminishing returns where the service game gold rush topped out and now everyone else is just trying to pick up the crumbs

Quick, tell Sony and the rest of the industry because multiplayer developers+publishers are getting paid handsomely right now. You must warn them before it's too late.
 

01011001

Banned
Horrible GaaS at least right now, but still the best MP shooter.

it's not even in the top 10.

Apex Legends, Valorant, CS:GO, Splitgate, MCC (which is bascially 6 MP games in one, so Halo CE, Halo 2, Halo 2A, Halo 3, Halo 4, Halo Reach... but let's not count H4... so we got 5 games here), Warzone, Fortnite, Rainbow Six SIege... hell even Overwatch is still better than this unfinished POS.
fucking Counter Strike 1.6 is currently beating it in player numbers on Steam... COUNTER STRIKE 1.6

csbmkmr.png



yj744cfzqzq81.jpg
 
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Just so unbelievably slow I don't know what the problem is but they're just so slow in getting new content out.
It's like they've never seen how other games do live service and they're making every mistake possible.
 

ZehDon

Gold Member
The problem with multiplayer games is that once they've lost the player base, the developer themselves can't rebuild it. It requires the community to come back and re-engage on their own terms.
Given how much work they have to do, and their glacial pace, we're talking minimum of two years before the game is in the shape previously Halo titles have been at their launch. In two years, their cross gen Halo will be so old, so out of touch, and and so forgotten, that any work they do will be a waste of effort.

Cut Infinite lose, move to Unreal engine, and make a fucking complete Halo game that isn't an embarrassment. No one's coming back for this.
 
I was super excited when the multiplayer surprise launched and I immediately bought the season pass because 343i had mentioned it would never expire and you could always go back and finish things up. After the first few matches, I realized that the season pass was totally broken and didn't cater at all to the casual players who can only dedicate a few hours a week to the game. They built the pass system to keep people totally engaged with the game and encourage them to spend more money on challenge swaps. I felt alienated and decided to call the season pass purchase a loss but kept playing because the gameplay was fun.

After enough matches with the same few maps in rotation and having no ability to choose which kind of mode I could play, I decided it was time to call it quits on the game and move on. I really want to love the game but it just doesn't feel complete nor well thought out. Sometimes I just want to play SWAT or a casual team deathmatch. How about some shotty snipers mixed in if I feel like it? 343i really killed my excitement for the Halo franchise with Infinite.
 

Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
it's not even in the top 10.

Apex Legends, Valorant, CS:GO, Splitgate, MCC (which is bascially 6 MP games in one, so Halo CE, Halo 2, Halo 2A, Halo 3, Halo 4, Halo Reach... but let's not count H4... so we got 5 games here), Warzone, Fortnite, Rainbow Six SIege... hell even Overwatch is still better than this unfinished POS.
fucking Counter Strike 1.6 is currently beating it in player numbers on Steam... COUNTER STRIKE 1.6

csbmkmr.png



yj744cfzqzq81.jpg

Exactly, but you are talking to a brick wall. Dude is just another in a long line of console warriors who will desperately defend the game because its on their personal plastic box.
 

01011001

Banned
the aiming on controller is so bad that people hate one of the best guns in the game, the Commando, because it is one of the only guns with barely any aim assist, so people can't aim with it and rather use the pistol or the BR because those basically aim themselves.

the aim assist is a joke in a modern game like that, it was a necessity in games of yesteryear because developers didn't have controller aiming figured out quite yet, so they relied on that to fix it.
Fortnite was also one such game, where there was literally a soft lock-on like in CoD Campaign modes, because their core aiming controls were so dogshit that this was the only way to make it playable. they later completely revamped the aiming controls (which are now really good actually) and removed the soft lock-on.

I thought I might do a visual demonstration on how weird and fucked Halo Infinite's aiming is with some hastely put together graphs, because I don't wanna be told I am throwing out vague statements (which most of the people that object my criticism do usually by just saying "you're a hater, the core game is amazing! HURR DURR!")
the issue lies mostly in 2 things:

#1: The Max turn speed/sensitivity is RIDICULOUSLY SLOW... as in basically what 50% speed is in a modern CoD. you can't turn around for shit, and this makes the game feel sluggish and undynamic

#2: the sensitivity curve, and this is the biggest issue with the game's controls, and the reason why the ridiculous aim assist is needed. you have for one, aim acceleration* THAT CAN NOT BE DISABLED! you can only change how fast it ramps up. and secondly a curve that's just a joke

here a few graphs that show for 1, Halo Infinite's curve that is close to shooters of the late PS2/Xbox to the early PS360 era, before CoD started to perfect controller aiming. and 2, some other curves, including the one used by many popular mainstream shooters

curvehalo67kgd.png

you can see how shallow the curve is, and how abrupt it shoots up, and even then still has a slight angle on top for additional unevenness
this curve was found by EternalDahaka on reddit using a TitanTwo

it uses most of the stick for extremely slow turn speeds and then shoots up right at the edge and then trails off even higher
____________________

curvemy5lj7g.png

this is roughly what I use in games that allow it, but if the have either of the ones below this one, i'm also fine with that usually.
you can see I prefer a smooth ramp up with precision in the inner part of the stick that steadily increases in speed towards the edge for max turn speed
while keeping the ability for granular precision.

I also usually use ones like these because you can normally use a 0% dead-zone and still avoid drifting or at least have only slight drifting. but a 0% dead-zone allows for extremely granular movement with ease.
in Apex Legends for example I barely move my stick when counteracting recoil for most guns and can counteract very efforlessly
____________________

curvepro15jqo.png

many pro controller players play linear, which is what you see above. most games that give a "Linear" option don't have an actual "true linear" curve though.
many look more like THIS
This gives 100% consistency but also needs the user to be extremely precise in high sensitivity settings as there is no precision zone in the inner circle.
most games give this as an option (Infinite of course doesn't because it sucks) and some other have this as the only option. although most use a different one.
which brings us to the last one below 👇
____________________

curvegoodgamesvxjv5.png

this is what most of the games that are commonly said to have really good controller aiming use as the default. of course they aren't 100% identical to this but they usually use this with slight variations and options to tweak further.
CoD's and Apex Legend's default look similar to this, this is also the default Steam uses when you emulate mouse movement on your controller's stick I think.
this is a very balanced curve that doesn't offend anyone. it gives some precision in the inner most circle but also is not too far off from linear to get in the way of people that really prefer a linear curve

this is also roughly what Splitgate, a Halo Clone made by a handful of students, uses and why it feels 10x better than Infinite and why it doesn't need Infinite's ridiculous aim assist to be playable on controller.
it lacks options to change the curve, which is suboptimal, but this curve is the least offensive to most players. so a good choice as the one to use

here a pic of the sensitivity curves that Modern Warfare uses:
aim-response-curve.jpg

(dynamic is fucking horrid btw! lol, some people like it tho so the option is there at least)
as you can see the CoD standard is very similar to the curve I presented above as what is basically the modern standard of good controller aiming
____________________


so this is why the aiming in Halo Infinite sucks. it uses a curve similar to the one used by Halo 2 back in 2004, before controller aiming was truly perfected by countless iterations of Call of Duty, which became as popular as it is due to how smooth and good the aiming felt compared to other shooters at the time. it was a standout reason as to why people fell in love with the series around Modern Warfare 1 and 2. it just felt better than the rest.

Halo Infinite meanwhile is stuck in the pre-Modern Warfare 1 era when it comes to the controls. it feels clunky, stiff, slow and inconsistent as hell. and that is AFTER you turn off axial deadzones, which is a whole nother dogshit option that Infinite has on as the default (but at least you can turn that off, unlike the acceleration)

and remember, most games have multiple curves as an option, Apex Legends even lets you create a custom one from 100% Linear to extremely curved to the edge

*aim acceleration is when you tilt your stick a certain amount, in Halo's case ~95% in default, and the game does not immediately give you the maximal possible speed, but slowly increases the turn speed over time. this leads to inconsistent feeling aiming and depending on implementation can lead to uneven movement in the horizontal and vertical axes
 
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S0ULZB0URNE

Member
I hardly believe they were set to launch in 2020.
They were but the industry ripped them a new one after what they showed(Craig anyone)
Sad that they are so out of touch that it took the ridicule for MS to step in,delay it and send four teams to help 343.

It's now April 2022 and the game is still missing features like co-op and Ray Tracing.
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
I'm implying some people voted in a disingenuous way. Either for Halo as a protest against another game, or perhaps based on the brand, or perhaps because it came out the day the voting open it was what they played last. I can believe the votes were there, just not that it's actually deserving.

I don't know about gloating, but I personally am pissed they still haven't delivered co-op campaign, my favorite way to play Halo.
I voted it because 2021 was a slow year and Infinite was the freshest option.
 
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