Luigi Mario
Member
I have to say, this really was an impressive prediction.
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Phil Spencer admits defeat in console space, and doesn't think great games would help Xbox's market share.
- Thread starter FunkMiller
- Start date
FUBARx89
Member
The quotes about giving up on winning the console war and great games not moving the needle is abysmal even in the correct context of "well, we've gone off and streaming is our focus"
It just makes the whole xbox ecosystem look incredibly weak. If they can't be arsed to put out quality games to even try get people adopting the hardware they sell, gamepass isn't gonna fare much better. Why should people buy into the ecosystem, when Microsoft can't be arsed to support the ecosystem with quality content from top to bottom.
MS needs a mass clear out and their own version of Andrew House/Shawn Layden to come in and get their shit in order, as at the moment they're adrift with no rudder.
It just makes the whole xbox ecosystem look incredibly weak. If they can't be arsed to put out quality games to even try get people adopting the hardware they sell, gamepass isn't gonna fare much better. Why should people buy into the ecosystem, when Microsoft can't be arsed to support the ecosystem with quality content from top to bottom.
MS needs a mass clear out and their own version of Andrew House/Shawn Layden to come in and get their shit in order, as at the moment they're adrift with no rudder.
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cormack12
Gold Member
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I actually think Phil might step down after this.
He looks ruined.
Go take a big break. Do something else.
He looks ruined.
Go take a big break. Do something else.
MasterCornholio
Member
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Very interesting that he mentioned Phil inventing a new verb 'out-consoling'. He suggests that while Microsoft might give up on Xbox, they wont be giving up on Gaming. I think the CMA might have read their real intentions better than any of us. MS has never made any money from Xbox and they clearly dont believe in Xbox. They just want to control gaming and push everyone to the cloud and gamepass. Sony and Nintendo rely upon the hardware business and thus have no choice but to believe in it.
This would explain why Phil never actually delivered on any of the games he promised. He just doesnt care about this side of the business where hes constantly losing money on hardware and likely getting it up the ass by his boss and board members.
Fredrik
Member
It’ll 100% be Sarah Bond. And that’s when we know it’s truly over. I’m sure she’s a great woman and good at her current job but I have serious doubts that she could replace Phil in a successful way, she just comes off as an always smiling PR machine, and is she even a gamer? Idk
MasterCornholio
Member
I don't believe Xbox needs another PR machine. They just need someone who is crazy about good games. Good things should come from that.
As for Sarah Bond I don't have a clue whats she's like. Hopefully if she takes the position she will double down on producing quality games. That's something that Xbox would benefit from a lot.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
This is honestly embarrassing
That interview was insane. The guy who runs Xbox doesn't even have confidence in Xbox or the staff he has producing games.
How is this literally possible?! He said the thing he's MOST looking forward to is the ROG machine. Like............how is that possible?!
That is dope.. .I never knew about that.... but its the type of thing that goes a long way when making a consumer feel that little bit something extra.You just unlocked an old memory I forgot I had...
In the early years of Xbox Live, they actually did something like this. They had a card you could get -- and it was a nice ass card too, credit card quality with embossed stamping -- that had your Gamertag on it. It gave you discounts at participating retailers. I remember buying books at Borders and the card got me like 10-15% off.
I wish I could find it, it's even been memory holed on the internet. But it was a white plastic card with an orange center and it was available around the start of the X360 generation. It didn't last long because a lot of retailers had no clue WTF it was and wouldn't honor it.
Edit: Holy shit, I found a picture of one buried on Reddit!
Hitchyhero
Banned
skit_data
Member
Amazing that someone considers Redfall ”frictionless” on any level
FunkMiller
Gold Member
Agreed. Shows how important and necessary the CMA blocking the ABK deal was. Hopefully the EU follow suit.
I want Xbox to be a strong force in the gaming industry because of the great games it produces, not because the parent company wants to dominate the future of game delivery in general.
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SegaSnatcher
Member
You still should want to be the top if you actually care about your company. Phil basically throwing the white flag is super beta mentality.
Only one company can realistically be #1 that doesn't mean xbox should give up and not try to become #1 or #2. Just settling for being dead last is crazy to me. You may not win every fight but I be damned if I just stand still and get the shit kicked out of me lol.
They also don't have as much support from 3rd unlike Sony and Xbox meaning fewer games and ports.
Nautilus
Banned
That has been rather obvious for a few years now.Many users from here and elsewhere have been saying for years now that it is clear that MS strategy with gaming was centered around Game Pass, and just like Game Pass doesn't need Xbox to be played, the console side of the business was being relegated to the side.
Nydius
Member
Finding the image jogged my memory further: It was called the Xbox Live Diamond Program and once I remembered that I was able to find old posts about it on the internet. Here's Major Nelson announcing its launch shortly after it went live. God, 2005. Where'd time go?
Rossco EZ
Member
definitely drew that himself
U n i o n 0015
Member
Oof 30 pages already.
Really sad state of affairs, and frankly, the kind of talk that should never be coming from a chief executive. Imagine all the employees worried about the now-regular tech layoffs and you've got Mr. Inspirational here telling the world that you and the brand you're building can't compete.
I'm not even console warring; I like to see successful games come to every platform. It seemed like Xbox did a wonderful job with the Series hardware, but under's Spencer's leadership they haven't delivered any games. He's clearly gone all in on Gamepass hoping to get Netflix-sized marketshare, but contrary to what he thinks, that doesn't happen without stellar games.
Really sad state of affairs, and frankly, the kind of talk that should never be coming from a chief executive. Imagine all the employees worried about the now-regular tech layoffs and you've got Mr. Inspirational here telling the world that you and the brand you're building can't compete.
I'm not even console warring; I like to see successful games come to every platform. It seemed like Xbox did a wonderful job with the Series hardware, but under's Spencer's leadership they haven't delivered any games. He's clearly gone all in on Gamepass hoping to get Netflix-sized marketshare, but contrary to what he thinks, that doesn't happen without stellar games.
SneakersSO
Member
none of these comments will have any impact on the ATVI deal. The CMA has already blocked it. CAT only reviews if CMA acted improperly, not the merits of the case. The FTC is already in court with a start date in August. And the EC can still very well block.
These comments he is making right now have no bearing on the merger. Its dead. He knows it is as does anyone else paying attention to it.
Sethbacca
Member
You shouldn't want great games. You should want to feel like you got part of a great value.
Plague Doctor
Member
Exactly. You shouldn't feel like you spent alot for a great experience. You should feel like you were mildly entertained and killed some time for very little money. I trust Phil to value my budget and to help stave off complete boredom. You are all too hard on him. Xbox is for when you want lukewarm McDonalds that only slightly fucked up your order but mostly got it right and not break the bank for a Porterhouse and Lobster Tail.
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Some takeaways I have.
1. Phil is not wrong. XBox fucked themselves last generation and they are now seeing the results of that screw up.
1. Phil is not wrong. XBox fucked themselves last generation and they are now seeing the results of that screw up.
Consumer's libraries define their platform of choice, and XBox did not make any inroads in that field when Nintendo and Sony made absolute end runs around them. This is even after XBox pioneered online lifestyle with XBox Live.
2. Microsoft with their Game Pass Ultimate system screwed them out of needing their hardware or eco-system to consume their media. So, they are fighting themselves to promote hardware sales.You can literally play cloud games on a chromebook, tablet, phone, or TV.
3. This was shockingly an honest take on the state of XBox division and the state of the arm's race of the video game industry. If you are so far behind the competition, busting ass on releases of quality games is not going to turn the current state of affairs. It is going to take multiple generations to make any headway against Sony or Nintendo
oldergamer
Member
Thats a total nonsense theory and defies logic.
Dick Jones
Gold Member
What a pathetic lickarse
6502
Member
MS should give up on acquisitions and look to secure a few exclusives, put some of their own guys on porting duties & get the rights to host the Sega back catalogue and arcade games on gamepass. Use this to fill the gaps in this gen whilst taking the neccessary time to polish or rework the AAA games.
It would probably cost less than this year's legal fees.
It would probably cost less than this year's legal fees.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Someone with the hunger and passion to drive the business like Phil in his prime.
Navigating the ABK deal must have been a nightmare and that's pretty much done. He looks fooked and not in a state to run the division IMO.
MasterCornholio
Member
Maybe someone like Jim Ryan.
I know it sounds crazy but Jim knows how to obtain good numbers. Maybe that's something that Microsoft needs.
Not necessarily something who is a gamer but someone who can get those numbers with gaming in mind. That's something I see Jim doing.
saintjules
Member
graywolf323
Member
I still have mine in a box somewhere, it was kinda coolYou just unlocked an old memory I forgot I had...
In the early years of Xbox Live, they actually did something like this. They had a card you could get -- and it was a nice ass card too, credit card quality with embossed stamping -- that had your Gamertag on it. It gave you discounts at participating retailers. I remember buying books at Borders and the card got me like 10-15% off.
I wish I could find it, it's even been memory holed on the internet. But it was a white plastic card with an orange center and it was available around the start of the X360 generation. It didn't last long because a lot of retailers had no clue WTF it was and wouldn't honor it.
Edit: Holy shit, I found a picture of one buried on Reddit!
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I think we are about to see the games Jim Ryan and Herman have signed off. When did they both take over?
Nydius
Member
I carried my card in my wallet even after they ended the program, but lost it when I was pick pocketed.
I always liked the idea of the program but, as is all too typical with Microsoft, they launched it and then did nothing with it. It came out, lingered for a couple years with no meaningful updates to the program, then was ended with no fanfare.
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Honestly, your post sums up a lot of the "modern way of entertainment" in a nice way. And the whole gamepass/subscription based stream of content type gaming world Microsoft wishes to see is the apex of this. I would rather pay for a good product once and receive something great that values my times rather than an endless stream of stuff that mainly tries to keep me engaged for longer.
TheGodfather07
Member
Phil basically said we want to do things differently, we want to do it our way!
Fuck your way. Your way sucks and nobody wants it. Even the regulators can see thay your way sucks and is anti competitive! Do it the traditional way! How hard is it? Make a good console with good software! Why is that so hard for you arrogant fuckers!? You want to change the entire market instead?
Fuck your way. Your way sucks and nobody wants it. Even the regulators can see thay your way sucks and is anti competitive! Do it the traditional way! How hard is it? Make a good console with good software! Why is that so hard for you arrogant fuckers!? You want to change the entire market instead?
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So your good eating my shoe scrapings after I leave as long is it only cost you a quarter? That's sad af dude, ngl it reeks of coping
RoadHazard
Gold Member
To me this reads as the same thing MS has been doing all along to try to get the ABK deal to happen: try to make it look as though MS is hopelessly behind big bad bully Sony, and that the merger should be approved so that they can have a chance to compete.
lachesis
Member
Well, in my opinion, what he said about making great games isn't enough = not necessarily false.
Sega did exactly that on DC days - quality, quantity, innovation, aggressive marketing, but still failed. Sure, they did f'ed up many ways internally and externally - but in the end, consumers didn't side with Sega and chose PS2. While this gen is only a couple years old - it does seem like it's a repeat of last DC/PS2 days in many similar ways. Like Sega, MS f'ed up last gen. Tried to come back (Sega = early launch + built in modem, MS = "supposedly" more powerful H/W + Gamepass/BC), but ultimately failed.
Or something like Pokemon games on Switch - that many found it technically outdated, even if you consider Switch being a very outdated system... but still sells tons of them.
Being able to read the target market, appease & keeping up and garnering their loyal audience while gently "leading" the audience to the company's next goal is just as critical as creating good games only.
Sony and Nintendo did exactly that with their respective hardware and all, successfully garnering their loyal consumer base. Always sticking to what they do, but adding and changing things a little by little in snail's pace. (service wise, not the hardware wise, I mean.) Sony garnered their 1st party games into cinematic experience type games for over a decade, and slowly moved to the west throughout PS3 to PS5. Over a decade. Nintendo stood firm on their ground, with their own blue ocean strategy over a decade too. MS? They seem to apply "Windows" style universal approach, which worked for them for many years... which in service wise makes sense... but lacked focus. In this case, gaming. Specifically, when the platform is inhibited within a physical object called a "console". Just like their failed windows phone strategy, which tried to mimic Windows.
Brand Loyalty is something that's earned over many years... and sometimes people just go with that brand in many cases. Just like many PC gamers choose Windows, because it's their only real viable option, even if they don't like Windows at all.
This is why, Xbox is still "green", I guess. But then again, "green" is color of the $, which they've got ton of. I'm sure MS will stick around as long as there is a market to be fought and get profit. The situation isn't as dire or bad like Windows Phone vs iPhone/Android... Perhaps they are losing $$$ on game pass, and this whole sub-burst on Netflix/Disney Plus era, maybe they'll be looking into something else... who knows? Right now though, I don't think MS would fold Xbox consoles yet. The pie's too big to ignore, even at 3rd place - unless they are losing ton of money. Most radical thing I can see, is that they may re-evaluate the Game Pass strategy, which I think is a very viable option for them at this point. (I'd rather whip/drill the 1st party devs though - but a company like MS just can't do that, I don't think. HR issues galore!)
However, if MS' own 1st party can't generate steady stream of quality AAA games to match their competition to begin with, there's no chance in the world MS can win against Sony or Nintendo. They can't afford f'ups like Red Fall... and that's the bare minimum to stay in the game. Starfield has to be a fantastic mass pleasing game, and that's the bare minimum.
Having said so, again, I do think what Spencer is saying is not necessarily false. Having a few great games on the system, it may appeal to hardcore audiences like ones on this gaming enthusiast board - but for many people or people who don't have luxury of owning multi-consoles, many would just go with what they are familiar with. Just like GTA5 is still selling many copies, generations after generations.
Sega did exactly that on DC days - quality, quantity, innovation, aggressive marketing, but still failed. Sure, they did f'ed up many ways internally and externally - but in the end, consumers didn't side with Sega and chose PS2. While this gen is only a couple years old - it does seem like it's a repeat of last DC/PS2 days in many similar ways. Like Sega, MS f'ed up last gen. Tried to come back (Sega = early launch + built in modem, MS = "supposedly" more powerful H/W + Gamepass/BC), but ultimately failed.
Or something like Pokemon games on Switch - that many found it technically outdated, even if you consider Switch being a very outdated system... but still sells tons of them.
Being able to read the target market, appease & keeping up and garnering their loyal audience while gently "leading" the audience to the company's next goal is just as critical as creating good games only.
Sony and Nintendo did exactly that with their respective hardware and all, successfully garnering their loyal consumer base. Always sticking to what they do, but adding and changing things a little by little in snail's pace. (service wise, not the hardware wise, I mean.) Sony garnered their 1st party games into cinematic experience type games for over a decade, and slowly moved to the west throughout PS3 to PS5. Over a decade. Nintendo stood firm on their ground, with their own blue ocean strategy over a decade too. MS? They seem to apply "Windows" style universal approach, which worked for them for many years... which in service wise makes sense... but lacked focus. In this case, gaming. Specifically, when the platform is inhibited within a physical object called a "console". Just like their failed windows phone strategy, which tried to mimic Windows.
Brand Loyalty is something that's earned over many years... and sometimes people just go with that brand in many cases. Just like many PC gamers choose Windows, because it's their only real viable option, even if they don't like Windows at all.
This is why, Xbox is still "green", I guess. But then again, "green" is color of the $, which they've got ton of. I'm sure MS will stick around as long as there is a market to be fought and get profit. The situation isn't as dire or bad like Windows Phone vs iPhone/Android... Perhaps they are losing $$$ on game pass, and this whole sub-burst on Netflix/Disney Plus era, maybe they'll be looking into something else... who knows? Right now though, I don't think MS would fold Xbox consoles yet. The pie's too big to ignore, even at 3rd place - unless they are losing ton of money. Most radical thing I can see, is that they may re-evaluate the Game Pass strategy, which I think is a very viable option for them at this point. (I'd rather whip/drill the 1st party devs though - but a company like MS just can't do that, I don't think. HR issues galore!)
However, if MS' own 1st party can't generate steady stream of quality AAA games to match their competition to begin with, there's no chance in the world MS can win against Sony or Nintendo. They can't afford f'ups like Red Fall... and that's the bare minimum to stay in the game. Starfield has to be a fantastic mass pleasing game, and that's the bare minimum.
Having said so, again, I do think what Spencer is saying is not necessarily false. Having a few great games on the system, it may appeal to hardcore audiences like ones on this gaming enthusiast board - but for many people or people who don't have luxury of owning multi-consoles, many would just go with what they are familiar with. Just like GTA5 is still selling many copies, generations after generations.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Edgelord79
Gold Member
I think one of the issues that faces Xbox right now, is that once market share separation is so large, it becomes almost impossible to remain viable.
Even IF you put out hit after hit, it’s extremely difficult to change public perception because always remember the memes or the failures the most. Especially on the internet.
Even IF you put out hit after hit, it’s extremely difficult to change public perception because always remember the memes or the failures the most. Especially on the internet.
//DEVIL//
Member
I think the same too. either step down or out. depending on EU as well.
The way he said " I am overpaid for my job anyway " and how he is like "Even if we make great games we won't win, and that our only way of being in the market is by doing something else "
and how he pretty much says how Sony is been trying hard for the Xbox not to get games and how hard is it for them, makes you wonder if he is having a fuck it a moment or just gave up. either way, it really doesn't look good on him.
BUTTT. for whats is said or done, this is really the only time I actually got respect for him on what he said. before that Interview, he was just a snake, like sony and any other corp to be honest.
Old_and_Slow
Member
"Oh woe is me, pls feel sorry for the multi-billion dollar software corporation that can't manage some game studios."
No way this interview goes this way if the Activision deal was done. Trying to look like the poor third place to sway the regulators rulings a bad look.
No way this interview goes this way if the Activision deal was done. Trying to look like the poor third place to sway the regulators rulings a bad look.
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Crayon
Member
oooh gotta say I think dc failed partially because the game library was not good. As far as heavy hitters, there was soul calibur, code veronica, 2k sports games, and....? A lot of stuff that was a feast for enthusiasts like jsr and f355 and 2d fighters and bangai-o etc. But really sonic adventure was their headliner and that wasn't good.
Pelta88
Member
It's 100% false and quite also an excuse. I couldn't get past this sentence so didn't read beyond it, respectfully.
Sethbacca
Member
The problem is that by the time they got the DC and killer software out, they had already shot themselves in the foot with the Saturn and nobody had faith in them anymore.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
1000% THIS!!!
hyperbertha
Member
I think what a lot of people miss is that first party exclusives and console sales profit just isn't enough for MS. They want netflix of gaming. They want consistent online engagement, not one and done high budget affairs. They want MTX live service money at a large scale. They want constant growth. And they want to own most studios that put out games so they can make use them to make more online live service games, with COD at the forefront.
MasterCornholio
Member
Not sure about what games Jim Ryan brought but he definitely ensured the production of the system. Also Sony did buy several devs with him incharge so there's that as well.
I wouldn't dismiss what he's done if I were you. PlayStations hardware and software numbers seem pretty solid IMO.
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