• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Marvels spider-man 2 graphics disappointed

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
It’s still compressed by YouTube. you’re not looking at a native 4K direct feed footage.

digital foundry talks all the time about how bad YouTube makes videos look, and they’re not wrong.
But this is how we watch and judge every game ever released. Ratchet, Demon Souls, Horizon, Call of Duty, Matrix demo, you name it. We saw it on youtube first.

If it was next gen, it would show. I watched the first UE5 demo on a twitter stream at like 360p and when she started flying, my jaw dropped.
 

ChiefDada

Gold Member
Interesting tweet from the core technology director at insomniac. Any ideas what "tech tease" he is referring to as it relates to the windows? Surely he's not talking about RT reflections, which looks to have improved to some degree (but again they didn't do a good job of presenting it).

 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Interesting tweet from the core technology director at insomniac. Any ideas what "tech tease" he is referring to as it relates to the windows? Surely he's not talking about RT reflections, which looks to have improved to some degree (but again they didn't do a good job of presenting it).


era found people in windows. before you just had modeled interiors. now they have used 10 tflops of Cernys power to render a person inside windows.

Next gen tech!
 

hyperbertha

Member
OH MY GOD!!!! You just reminded me of those wack Jaguar cores. GUYS.................Playstation is better than this. The Zen 2 processor is leaps and bounds better than those Jag cores. Covid has ruined game development. Straight up! We all know for a fact that these people didn't turn into idiots over night.

It's either Covid killed game development or companies are legit taking money out of AAA SP games and putting it into GAAS games.
I have another explanation. Seeing as reusing assets for miles Morales resulted in much faster development time, management decided to do the same for Spidey 2, with the benefit of being able to also focus on wolverine. It's likely wolverine will look the same. I think sony just turned insomniac into ubisoft.
 

Msamy

Member
Interesting tweet from the core technology director at insomniac. Any ideas what "tech tease" he is referring to as it relates to the windows? Surely he's not talking about RT reflections, which looks to have improved to some degree (but again they didn't do a good job of presenting it).


I really don't see any new graphics tech in this trailer
 

ChiefDada

Gold Member
era found people in windows. before you just had modeled interiors. now they have used 10 tflops of Cernys power to render a person inside windows.

Next gen tech!

Wait really? If that's true then that would actually be VERY impressive to me if all those skyscraper windows have people in them going about their business. I will watch again and actively look for it. But this goes to the heart of my frustration. If you guys are proud of whatever new tech you've implemented, why are you releasing a trailer and showcasing in such a way that your customer has to play Where's Waldo to experience and appreciate it? Such a bizarre strategy.
 

Lokaum D+

Member
Interesting tweet from the core technology director at insomniac. Any ideas what "tech tease" he is referring to as it relates to the windows? Surely he's not talking about RT reflections, which looks to have improved to some degree (but again they didn't do a good job of presenting it).


Maybe npc reacting to Miles inside buildings ?

42L19qJ.jpg
 

Msamy

Member
Lol, never made that claim, but getting assmad only over graphics is silly to me. And of course it didn't match the first trailer, that was just a cinematic trailer.
Neither gameplay or graphics looks next gen to all they shown is possible in ps4 aside from fast loading
 

Nvzman

Member
Looks to me they recycled a lot of things from previous Spider-man games. It's like a DLC... but instead of the word DLC, they added the number 2 on the name.
No wonder Insomniac launches Spider-man 2 so soon after the last Spider-man (Miles Morales launched in 2020).
... It's a sequel. There's at least like 5 gigantic new additions shown in like 10 minutes of footage.

Is this a troll thread? Is this a thread of people actually judging the games visuals from COMPRESSED 30FPS YOUTUBE FOOTAGE of all things? It looks great, and it'll probably look much better in person. What the fuck are all of you expecting? Or are you just saying this on purpose to having something to whine over?
 

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
You are making this judgment on a fairly short trailer that doesn't show a lot of gameplay. In addition, Miles and Spider-Man Remastered were released in 2020.

We ate talking 3 years and not 5. That's not much at all considering modern AAA development, hence this is clearly utilizing a lot of previous assets and same engine. Which I would argue is good since it cuts dev time.

Wolverine is where you should be looking at major differences. And as far as improvement in game graphics from early PS3 to late PS3, let's not get ridiculous, the overall situation is completely different. There is power of diminishing returns as well as the fact that PS3 was unfamiliar and quite difficult to develop so you didn't have spectacular looking games (for the platform) till very late.
fairly short 10 minutes all gameplay trailer.. cmon now
 

Labolas

Member
Neither gameplay or graphics looks next gen to all they shown is possible in ps4 aside from fast loading
....ok? I don't know what 'next gen' gameplay is supposed to look like to you but it's fine for what they're going for. It isn't amazing or anything, but neither was the first one.
 
@Mod of War

This.exactly.

Gents, these reaction-threads are getting insufferable , it gets to the point where it becomes a chore navigating the front page having to deal with the constant spam/flooding of unneeded and whiny threads after a bad release and/or showcase.

Again, all these "Should X do Y after Z thing ? "/ "X company is doomed after Y showcase"/ "Should X person resign ?" are getting insufferable, it's stupidly reactionary at best, insufferably childish/juvenile at worst.

There's a difference between trying to have a discussion and whining all the God damned time.

It's also very much NEEDED in a time where the gaming media does nothing but pretend like Spiderman 2 looks "great".

There needs to be some corner of the internet where people can voice the truth of certain games that fail to live up to what the hardware is capable of.

If you're an old man like me and been around gaming since it's early days you'd know this is the first generation where games have consistently fallen short of being "next gen". With no pressure from the media I think it's understandable for there to be an "overreaction" in the opposite direction of what the media portrays!

q
....ok? I don't know what 'next gen' gameplay is supposed to look like to you but it's fine for what they're going for. It isn't amazing or anything, but neither was the first one.

Spiderman 1 looked really impressive when it came out in 2018. Miles Morales was one of the most impressive games on PS5 when the system released.

Spiderman 2 is now unshackled from the constraints of the ps4 yet it looks no better than MM.
 

ChiefDada

Gold Member
fairly short 10 minutes all gameplay trailer.. cmon now

Haha I agree with you but this made me laugh so hard idk why. Was going to drop the LOL emoji but didn't want you to get the wrong impression.

You are making this judgment on a fairly short trailer that doesn't show a lot of gameplay. In addition, Miles and Spider-Man Remastered were released in 2020.

We ate talking 3 years and not 5. That's not much at all considering modern AAA development

I don't understand why this assumption that AAA game, especially sequels, need so much time is so prevalent. When the GoW Ragnarok Gameplay Trailer released I was very hype about the vastly improved lighting system. People here mocked me then but sure enough it was the top tech improvement DF praised the sequel on. Maybe NX Gamer too. And this was at the engine level so PS4 and PS5 benefited. Had it not been for Covid and Chris Judge health issues, it would have released in 2021 no doubt. Not to mention Insomniac has greatly enhanced their engine already for current gen just look at Rift Apart.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I have another explanation. Seeing as reusing assets for miles Morales resulted in much faster development time, management decided to do the same for Spidey 2, with the benefit of being able to also focus on wolverine. It's likely wolverine will look the same. I think sony just turned insomniac into ubisoft.

I'd blame Insomniac first on that then. But we'll need to wait and see.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
clearly. it didn't even had a release date.

are they going to change how the entire water works?
Who knows, I do know splash shader physics along with foliage impact shader physics sometimes get added last in final optimization passes. Which is why we will see gameplay trailers several months out in State of Plays where the foliage isn't being impacted by the player or NPCs (happened with Ghost of Tsushima and Horizon twice), people complain, then the final game has it, rinse/repeat ad nauseum.

Hell, it happened again with HZD expansion as if Guerilla all of a sudden decided to turn off a staple shader feature. No, you just get builds in these demos that are months older than the demo release date before final optimization passes. Is all.

Or, maybe it will still suck like the last Spider-Man game and they will take the feedback to heart and come back with spectacular water for Wolverine like Guerilla did with HZD.
 
Last edited:

Fbh

Member
I’m starting to think most of you guys no longer enjoy act of playing games, rather take screenshots and drool over pixels all day.

But I already played something like this.... Twice.
5 years after the original and on a whole new console gen if you aren't going to evolve the gameplay and design in any major way it should at least look really good.

It’s still compressed by YouTube. you’re not looking at a native 4K direct feed footage.

digital foundry talks all the time about how bad YouTube makes videos look, and they’re not wrong.

If you need native 4K direct feed footage to really notice much of a difference then it's a small incremental upgrade at best.
The first time I saw Forbidden West gameplay I did so on youtube and on my work computer which has a horrible TN screen and the upgrade compared to Zero Dawn (and most other games, really) was still instantly obvious.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
People watching Tech demos & thinking that shit is achievable by most Devs is misery at its finest.

Few studios can pull CGI like, maybe Naughty Dog & Epic on a PS5 but you'll be playing at 15-30fps.

I'm okay with 30 fps.
 
If you need native 4K direct feed footage to really notice much of a difference then it's a small incremental upgrade at best.
The first time I saw Forbidden West gameplay I did so on youtube and on my work computer which has a horrible TN screen and the upgrade compared to Zero Dawn (and most other games, really) was still instantly obvious.
Well that’s really the point, though. We’ve all been talking since this generation began about how there isn’t this huge graphical leap in visual fidelity. It’s there, for sure, but it’s harder to tell nowadays. Especially when everyone wants native 4K @ 60fps and then devs need to cut back on fidelity to meet this weird new demand from people that all the sudden need their whole library to run @ 60fps, whereas in the past the vast majority of games were never hitting that target.

But we all know we’ve reached a point of diminishing returns in visual fidelity. So if you’re waiting for that Wow Moment, like the leap from n64 to GameCube, you’re likely going to be really disappointed.
 
Last edited:
Wait really? If that's true then that would actually be VERY impressive to me if all those skyscraper windows have people in them going about their business. I will watch again and actively look for it. But this goes to the heart of my frustration. If you guys are proud of whatever new tech you've implemented, why are you releasing a trailer and showcasing in such a way that your customer has to play Where's Waldo to experience and appreciate it? Such a bizarre strategy.
No its a gimmick they took from The Division.
 
Sure, if you want a game world that is made up almost entirely of unmoving inorganic materials.

UE5 isn't magic, it has severe limitations due to the inability to animate nanite meshes. Its why if you fly around the city in Matrix awakens the fans in the air-con units are always frozen in place and why vegetation is absolutely minimized.

There are always pro's and con's for a new technology or technique, some of which mark them unsuitable for certain purposes. In a highly constrained, tightly controlled creative scope you can bring all this stuff to bear to its fullest effect, but the broader the goals then the more likely it is that tried and true approaches are the better option.

Which is a massive problem, because there's always a need for visual consistency across the project - you can't mix and match levels of fidelity from scene-to-scene because it would be jarring to the viewer and make the end result appear unfinished.
2021 called, they want their arguments back. Nanite now fully supports foliage and the Air-con units were animated textures if i'm remembering correctly. Has nothing to do with Nanite. All games use animated textures for their AC units.

Lastly you can animate nanite meshes. You just can't do deformed animations (characters, destruction on cars). Which totally makes sense.
Nanite is probably 8 years ahead of the entire gaming industry.

 
Last edited:

Go_Ly_Dow

Member
Wow the quality of Neogaf has really suffered

Seems there's a sizeable amount of people who's enjoyment of a video game is now tied to how "next gen" the graphics look. Same people seem to shit on games that dare to prioritise other elements, such as story and scope over raw visuals (see discourse around FF16 for past 2.5 years).

Now reality is hitting home with diminishing returns meaning most games will only be a moderate step up from the last generation.

The real question should be, how does slightly more realistic water or textures make a game better for you? Surely there are other ways to make a game more enjoyable or memorable than by just focusing on that...
 

TLZ

Banned
No , good graphics games are pretty even with YouTube compression, what shown yesterday was shit
I can show you shit if you like. If you said good but not great I'd understand. But shit?

The exaggeration is too much in this forum. It's very off-putting. Either great or shit. This is the overdramatic social media world we live in now. Everything is rage. Everything is heightened.
 

Labolas

Member
Spiderman 1 looked really impressive when it came out in 2018. Miles Morales was one of the most impressive games on PS5 when the system released.

Spiderman 2 is now unshackled from the constraints of the ps4 yet it looks no better than MM.
I was talking about gameplay, not graphics.
 

Msamy

Member
People watching Tech demos & thinking that shit is achievable by most Devs is misery at its finest.

Few studios can pull CGI like, maybe Naughty Dog & Epic on a PS5 but you'll be playing at 15-30fps.

What can you do? You have delusional people like SlimySnake SlimySnake parading that a non-interactive tech demo is possible on current gen hardware:


What's wrong with you peoples we don't ask for tech demos graphics or the matrix demo graphics we ask for graphics thats on par with hfw burning or star wars jedi survivor or even gow ragnarock which look identical in ps4 and ps5
8dXoVLs.jpg
T4uXFDr.jpg
WZKTfJL.jpg
hsTRbTz.jpg
RLdZSNv.jpg
mH5ejvH.jpg
hLV24C5.jpg
mR5VoTS.jpg
l9P94qi.jpg
gRuceTc.jpg
oL2AX3k.jpg
f4VnNVW.jpg
Rbn0Ozb.jpg
orzyB5H.jpg
jBWHMvt.jpg
 

Dibils2k

Member
the venom suit just looks very bad, maybe its just material but it looks so blurry

the explosion looked so lame too, miles morales looked alot better than this tbh but the scale should be a lot bigger in this and the wing suit looks incredible to use
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
People watching Tech demos & thinking that shit is achievable by most Devs is misery at its finest.
This.

There are late life Unity tech demos running on the PS4 Pro that we have yet to see the PS5 gen come even close to in any game.
 
Last edited:
Looked fantastic to me, except for the water effects and the explosions...It lacks polish, however, which makes me doubt that it still releases in the fall, as planned.
 
I did not say that. I said going from UC3 to UC4 type leaps you would not see from the PS4 to PS5 gen due to similar APIs and unified compute pipelines. Lighting will be better, physics simulations will be better, animations, all comes down to design vs what the horsepower can provide. We are already at the point of super high resolution textures (PBR), materials, reflections, etc..



It won't be a monumental leap like past gens, more so in game design. What should be a major leap though and has yet to prove itself is AI, physics and animations.
I just want games to look like demos from nearly 5 years ago using way worse GPU than current gen consoles.



 

Yoboman

Member
Man I can't agree. Spiderman 2 just looked a cut above everything else shown, and was a solid reminder why the rest of the conference was disappointing and Sony is really carrying the torch right now

Maybe that's why everyone is so flat after that conference. All the expectation is on Sony to single handedly deliver the most cutting edge everything. More backlash on the conference than the awful looking Starfield demo of last year. Can you imagine Sony trotting out that 20 fps jank?
 

R6Rider

Gold Member
Overall I thought it looked good. I don't like the black suit though (hopefully there's other symbiote suits).

Plays at 4k 60 and looks this good is fine by me.
 

Ronin_7

Banned
What's wrong with you peoples we don't ask for tech demos graphics or the matrix demo graphics we ask for graphics thats on par with hfw burning or star wars jedi survivor or even gow ragnarock which look identical in ps4 and ps5
8dXoVLs.jpg
T4uXFDr.jpg
WZKTfJL.jpg
hsTRbTz.jpg
RLdZSNv.jpg
mH5ejvH.jpg
hLV24C5.jpg
mR5VoTS.jpg
l9P94qi.jpg
gRuceTc.jpg
oL2AX3k.jpg
f4VnNVW.jpg
Rbn0Ozb.jpg
orzyB5H.jpg
jBWHMvt.jpg
If it was easy every game would look like those.

Apparently isn't.
 

Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
If it was easy every game would look like those.

Apparently isn't.

Because graphics are an idiotic thing to chase after. The "best looking game" today will look outdated in a few months. Then what does it have? Mediocre story? Poor Pacing? Generic gameplay? Which at least 2 of those 3 games all have? (Havent played Star Wars yet, so unsure on that one).

We would have more games out sooner that take advantage of the unique capabilities of the faster SSDs if AAA devs would stop focusing so hard on graphical fidelity which no one ends up remember after a few months, aside from a few die-hard console warriors desperate to clutch their pearls.

The issue with Spiderman is that we saw little to no changes or improvements in the gameplay, so with a different generation, we should at the very least see a larger improvement in graphical fidelity. If they do have a lot of changes, they did a very terrible job showcasing them.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom